Psychometric Testing

[James4th]

I know this has been discussed before but recent events have given more cause for thought.

1) Recently many very experienced airline pilots failed to qualify for a recruiting airline because they failed the psychometric tests.

2) Recently quite a few pilots with very little common sense or situational awareness studied the books and attended the PAT course and did extremely well in the same tests.

Two Questions:-

1)What does this show?
2) Is the PAT course any good, because I'm as thick as a brick and need all the help I can get!

Cheers,
James

[Wizofoz]

James,

The innate problem with the whole psycometric approach to airline recruiting is that it attempts to compare apples to oranges.

The tests are designed to show whether someone has the basic aptitude to have a high probability of passing airline training. This is fine if trying to pick between non-qualified applicants. The fact that it can disqualify a highly experienced pilot with a proven track record is ridiculous. The fact that it can act IN FAVOUR of someone with a history of problems and poor judgement is just as bad.

I am firmly of the opinion it should be used to screen Cadet applicants and that's all.

(Before the obvious reply is made, I went through the Qantas system, one of the most Phsyco-babalic of them all, and was successful (I turned them down). At the same time, a lot of good guys who were great pilots fell foul of this system- a terrible loss to them AND the airline which would have benefitted from their service.)

[HEALY]

James

Although unsure of your qualifications at present I am sure its safe to assume if you have a pilots license and the ability to understand things associated with flying you are not at all thick.
Dont put ya self down buddy.

As for PATS, I was unsuccesful at Psyc tests for QF last year and told to reapply this year. I did the course and found it very good in a) identifying my weak areas and b) also provide tips on how to approach common tests found at QF.

The course will identify your areas where improvement is needed but should not be treated as a lesson in maths or english. Thats your job!!!

I hop on the QF jet this week for a second go in SYD so time will tell. Getting fired up over this testing wont make it go away, it is becoming more prominent in selections in all industries and stories of ''the right man for the job'' not getting thru will continue. What will be will be!

[Left Wing]

The sales people selling these very expensive PAT software programs are doing a great job.

I did a few mock up tests ( at a large recruitment agency for a managment position ) till I achived the results an airline wanted to see, it as simple as that, being politically correct and normal stuff you throw at the interview, saying things the panel wants to hear. But no honest shrink will commit to that, coz since he will be putting his job on the line. Belive me I lost all faith in these tests, just a money spinner for the software co.

:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

[TSO-744]

Left Wing it doesn't work like that - you get trained on their question bank ( which is not a take away) and which for all intensive purposes is identical to Qantas . I thougth $300/400 for a two day course was dirt cheap considering what my career earnings will be now . I did an individual course - and it was the best thousand bucks I ever spent - there were no surprises on the maths test.

People get jealous and very petty when other people succeed and are happy with a service. On my first day at mainline we were asked who had done this course ( no hands went up ) but three other blokes were on the same PATS course as me. It turns out the majority of my intake did the course. The QF guy said that QF know it is a very good course because they have seen the marks of some repeat applicants( sitting stage two a second time) rise substantially.

Ultimately it is a personal choice about how you prepare but I wouldn't have passed had I not done this course( the other guys on my course said same).

[you'll be right son]

HEALY check ya PM's mate:ok:

[Mr Garrison]

I think that Qantas will now somewhat change its recruitment process because it knows that a stack of people are getting practice at the stage 2's before their actual test, so they will make the interviews more enduring and really scrutinize the candidates their me-thinks.

What next though - a PATS course for QF interviews and then a PATS course for QF Sims - food for thought!!


Mr.G

:ok:

[Wizofoz]

The QF guy said that QF know it is a very good course because they have seen the marks of some repeat applicants( sitting stage two a second time) rise substantially.

As the whole testing regime is supposed to be about testing inate apptitude, doesn't this prove the whole thing is a load of cadswallop?

[captwawa]

This is straight from the Qantas web site regarding stage 2.Sample questions are included at the beginning of each section and these should be studied carefully.

The amount and nature of preparation done for selection assessments is at the discretion of individual candidates, however the following information may be of assistance:

The Psychometric Assessment Practice Leaflet contains practice questions, which may assist candidates with preparation for the Psychometric Assessment.
The fact that Qantas has put these sample questions on their web site is to encourage applicants to do thorough preparation on the style of questions they will be tested on. ie to maximise their chances of success. It's all there in-front of everyone. The PATS course just takes some of the hard work out of preparing your own prac questions.

preparation done for selection assessments is at the discretion of individual candidates PATS fits into this criteria. Why wouldn't you want to do everything in your power to improve your chances. The course is a bit expensive but if it gets you in then it's a drop in the ocean. If you are not actually mentally capable of successfully completing the initial training then the PATS course wouldn't be much help in getting through stage 2 anyway. It just seems to highlight any areas you need to work on or confirm that your prep was on the right track. Its all good either way.

[Hawk]

So, everyone does the PATS course, that just pushes up the Mean. It's all weighted. Airlines still only going to take those in the top percentiles

[Helli-Gurl]

I agree with Hawk, Whilst doing the course should improve your ability to handle these questions and get more of them correct, it only really improves your chances against those of an equal calibre that haven't done any prep and are ill prepared for what they face.

If everyone does as the airlines suggest and practice, then you're not really increasing or maximising your chances as the airlines will still only take the top XX percentile.

I should imagine these days everyone is worldly wise and the majority of candidates practice, so any perspective candidate would be foolish not to just to ensure they are playing on a level playing field with their rivals.

Either way, I would practice so i am less stressed during the tests.

Kinda turns it all into a competition and I think that the fact airlines invite candidates to re-apply 12 months later int he hope they do better against the next batch of candidates kinda proves that!

x

[thegirlfriend]

i think you're spot on helli-gurl! My beau got a 'not competitive at this time' letter 'come back later' response after his first go so now we're busting our a**es to make him 'more competitive' for the next round by trying to get as many practice tests/sample questions as possible!!

[TSO-744]

A couple of people have asked me for these details

www.******************

[email protected]

0427 053 715

One thing to also consider is that a friend who did a course recently was told by PATS that in a couple of months they intend running only individual courses - which are much more expensive. So if you want to do a group course you may want to get it moving.