PNG ? Another Africa in the making !

[Waghi Warrior]

What's the latest in PNG guys, or aren't there any expats left there now ? For a nation with huge potential,they have no potential with the people running the shop up there. Infact PNG just doesn't have any hope at the moment. Now that they have kicked the aussie cops out, amongst many other things,why would anyone want to invest in such a country like PNG. I feel sorry for the grass roots villager,who is ultimately going to pay the price for the actions of an incapable bunch of pollies,who are in it to line there pockets,while eveyone else lives in poverty. And to make things worse,HIV/AIDS is compounding in huge proportions.

For those expats still flying up there, I take my hat of to you guys,and I just hope you are getting paid appropriately. I know of several airlines up there,who just can't get/keep experienced pilots now.

Lets wait and see what the next chapter in PNG's history is going to bring. Kick the cops out, here comes the army wantoks,and I figure they might just be armed !

[OzExpat]

Maybe a little bit of perspective is necessary here. Nobody here has kicked out any of the Oz feds. They did that themselves.

Why?

Because the PNG Supreme Court ruled that the section of the ECP Act pertaining to immunity from PNG Law was unconstitutional. No other part of the ECP legislation was in question. Should PNG simply tear up its Constitution? That would certainly make it more like some of the African nations.

Every contract I've ever had here has stipulated that I must agree to abide by PNG laws. I've been here off and on since early 1984 and never had a problem with it.

Yes, sure this place has more than its share of problems, but the rule of law has prevailed in this instance. Now it's up to the PNG and Oz governments to work out another solution which hopefully, won't involve structural changes to the Constitution. That would be another sure way to have this place looking like some parts of Africa.

And, yes, every local polly believes in the necessity to have the Oz federal cops here, so I'm sure there'll be a solution that sees them return at some stage. According to this morning's paper, a quote from Downer suggests a maximum of 12 months to sort out the problem.

[The Voice]

and I BET there was a media frenzy with them coming out of there as well :p frigging journo's!

[OzExpat]

Yes TV, that's actually quite true... there was indeed a media frenzy of sorts. Most everything that was shown on EM-TV this evening related to the PNG publc wanting the Oz coppers to remain. The rest related to PNG coppers who wanted the Oz coppers to remain.

The cynic in me thought that the reason why the Oz contingent was down in the mouth was because they were returning to the "same old shyte" in Oz, losing all their lucrative overseas allowances and, of course, also losing their luxury acommodation here. They were actually on a pretty good wicket for this gig!

However, there were many among those Aussies who genuinely wanted to help, genuinely wanted to make a difference here. I saw the despair about that in so many faces that the cynic in me almost completely vanished. After all, it wasn't their fault that they were leaving - that decision had been made for them after their immunity from PNG law was revoked by PNG's Supreme Court.

I, too, am sad to see them go. Not that they'd made much of a difference over the past 6 months, but I suspect that they were getting close to busting some really major criminals here. Having said that, I'm yet to be convinced that the person who took the case to the Supreme Court was one of them, but today would've been a cause for real celebration for some people. :uhoh:

Time will tell. It always does...

[psycho joe]

The PNG government and high ranking police never wanted to allow the oz feds in, lest they expose the ineptitude and corruption that the PNG people put up with.

Now the PNG pollies have finally got their way. They couldn't get rid of the Oz feds by disarming them and reducing their powers, so they've pulled the constitution out of their @rse.

Forget lucritive oversees allowances, it would take balls of steel the size of coconuts to be a cop in Moresby without even a pistol.

PNG needs the same overhaul that the Solomons got.

[LewC]

A piece on TV last week showed PNG coppers holding a union meeting/bitch session about the OZ coppers,particularly about their pay rates and the fact that,according to the obviously disgruntled PNG copper making most of the noise,they did the dirty work while the OZ coppers parked their arses in the Police Station.This did not seem to support the theory that the OZ coppers were particularly welcome.

[tinpis]

I would tend to listen to what ozexmate has to say.
He's on the spot.
BTW ozmate is Burnie still hangin in there?

[OzExpat]

psycho joe... just to put you in the picture, the issue of immunity had been a problem with the ECP arrangement right back as far as the initial planning stages. It was well know that it flew in the face of PNG's Constitution but there was only one person who took it to the Supreme Court - the Governor of Morobe Province, Luther Wenge. So it was certainly not a matter of pulling it out of their @rse, as you've termed it.

Given that background, the immunity issue was always going to fail the test of law.

LewC... partly right, partly not. Yes, there was a "bitch session" a month or two back, not only due to differences in pay but also in style of accommodation. First point here is that the local cops are paid very poorly - even in comparison with local wages in clerical jobs. Whether or not they are worth it is a bit beside the point because of that basic truism "you get what you pay for".

There's been a review of police wages underway here for about the last month and there's an expectation that wages will rise.

That might help them a bit with accommodation which, in any case, is very expensive here - even in comparison to the high rent districts of Sydney and Melbourne. Many of the local cops live in condemned barracks, condemned flats or squatter settlements because they can't afford anything else. So there is a very clear difference between their standard of accommodation and the standard enjoyed by the ECP coppers.

There was never, as far as I saw, any suggestion that the ECP cops weren't welcome - merely that the PNG government needs to provide better pay and conditions for their own cops. If this happens in a meaningful way, it just might (stress "MIGHT") reduce the level of corruption in the local force.

Now to the other side of the ECP arrangement. The ECP cops were not permitted to work without their PNG counterparts. Thus, if a crime is reported at a police station and only the Oz cops are around, they can't take action until their counterparts turn up for work. This has happened on many occasions that I'm aware of.

It's one of those things that "seemed like a good idea at the time", but failed to take account of the lack of punctuality of the local cops.

tinpis, mate! I saw him at Boroko Foodworld a few weeks back so I guess that means he's still beavering away in ASIB. :ok:

[psycho joe]

ozexpat,

The PNG government only agreed to accept the feds to gain the 900 odd million aid package on the table. If the PNG government REALLY wanted to stop crime and corruption they'd call in RAMSI with open arms, and have a complete overhaul of public services.

It sounds to me like you're happy with the way things are. Could this be because the PNG government pays your wage?

[Taildragger]

Ladies..... Shouldn't these remarks be on D&G general Aviation "Ples bilong Tok Tok".?? That's the place for all the PNG Gossip, news, rumours, Jokes and grumbles.
The Woomeri are watching.!

[OzExpat]

I can't understand why Little Johnny is the Oz PM when a bloke like psycho joe has such a grip on the current situation.

First off, yes, I am employed on a contract with the PNG Government. What does that have to do with anything? I have always expressed my own views and will continue to do so, thank you. In fact, I'm about to continue that tradition right now.

Next, no I am certainly NOT happy with the loss of the Australian Assisting Police - if that is what you mean by "the way things are". If, on the other hand, you're referring to a successful demonstration of the rule of law in a country where it's more usual to be otherwise, then yes of course I'm happy. I'd like to see many more such demonstrations of the rule of law, having been on the receiving end of lawlessness more times than I care to think about since 1984.

Next, I was not happy with the lack of positive action by the AAP in the last 6 months. I know that it takes time to obtain evidence and that the cops have to be very careful when the target is, or could be, a local "big man". But the only action that they were seen to take was against soft targets - nightclubs trading beyond the hours of their licences. They ended up with some very bad press after that because it had been believed that they were here to tackle the fundamental law and order problems.

And just as a matter of interest, the stated 900-million bucks was never intended to be aid, per se. It was also intended to fund the accommodation of the AAP personnel and this turned out to be a major component of the costs over the quoted 5-year term of the ECP.

[psycho joe]

"the way things are".
I mean the overt corruption (eg How many people have been given the answers for the aviation exams?),

I mean the crumbling infrastructure in Moresby and other cities such as roads, telephone, waste management, Nav aids, etc etc despite the massive mineral wealth of the country.

I mean women being raped and murdered in broad daylight.

Just because the police haven't advertised their hunt of the "big men" on emtv for the approval of all propping up the aero club bar, doesn't mean the police were being soft.

If, on the other hand, you're referring to a successful demonstration of the rule of law in a country where it's more usual to be otherwise, then yes of course I'm happy.
HA,

The constitution was designed to protect the PNG people, instead it's being used by the grubs to get rid of the only people who could expose the fiefdom.

As I said, If the PNG government REALLY wanted to stop crime and corruption they'd call in RAMSI with open arms, and have a complete overhaul of public services.

[ConditionLever]

Yes WW. You got it about right there.

[OzExpat]

I mean the overt corruption (eg How many people have been given the answers for the aviation exams?),

I mean the crumbling infrastructure in Moresby and other cities such as roads, telephone, waste management, Nav aids, etc etc despite the massive mineral wealth of the country.

I mean women being raped and murdered in broad daylight.
None of that was obvious in your post and I'm greatly offended that you could think that I'd be happy about any of that. You clearly know nothing about me so I'll thank you to keep such offensive assertions to yourself. :mad: :mad: :mad:

[Tutaewera]

Having worked over much of the 3rd world and in PNG in the 1990's and again over 2002/03. I can say it has gone downhill greatly in that time, in fact I'd say it now rates as another "failed state". I can't see much difference between other "failed states" in the region (Solomons etc). The "govt" is a joke, the country is effectively broke - surviving on Ozaid. The nation is in anarchy, crime is rampant, corruption is the norm, and basic services have all but collapsed.

As the orginal poster said it is a beautiful country with enormous potential and great resources. Squandered by greedy, corrupt and inept locals. What annoyed me was the selfishness of the "big men" turned Polly's who deliberately buggered their own country for personal gain. I have more respect for a good dog!

I know it can be difficult to accept for someone still trapped there, who perhaps is confusing better memories with the current situation OR who is reluctant to face facts given the futility of their long term efforts, but the place is effectively buggered.

IMHO PNG it is typical of many post colonial local administrations I've seen, they just can't reconcile the tribal chief system of "take what I want", vandalism and violence, with responsible govt. So sadly, in I must agree with the poster - it has become another Africa...

:sad:

[balus]

I spent 12 years in PNG, most of them in POM (not in aviation though). Luther Wenge couldn't lie straight in bed, then again neither could Sir (I love my shoes) Michael. It wouldn't surprise me if Wenge was close to being caught out.

Ozexpat, did rent a crowd show their faces in POM like they did during Sandline?

[OzExpat]

It was only the compact version of rent-a-crowd balus. I suspect that the departure of the Oz Feds happened before most of them could get organised. Most of the crowd there were RPNGC personnel and none of them seemed very happy that the AAP was leaving.

Quite a different situation to Sandline, of course.