When Will We Get Stability?

[MaroonMan4]

Is it me or have we just been in a constant state of flux since 1991? There have been so many reviews of structures, resources and real estate that no ones knows whether they are coming or going?

Surely, even with the demise of the Warsaw Pact and 9/11 someone could make a decision. It all appears to be constantly 'up in the air'. This base closing here, funding reduced there, this Sqn disbanding etc etc.

How does SABR suddenly get a whacking amount of money removed and re-named? Was all of the original staff work and requirements flawed? What has changed? If we are truly a resource driven armed forces then all you doctrine gurus can hang up your 'bibles' as it is pointless - and you are all daydreaming on what could be! Smell the coffee and look at what capabilities are really here and now.

Will there ever be a steady state where equipment projects, personnel and families knew where they stood in military life or is this just the way military life is going to be now.

I am out of here, so now shakes, but its amazing that now I have pulled my head out of my @rse and look around alot of the 'stress' in military life has very little to do with the physical Op Tours etc, but all of the periphery rubbish that is going on.

If I have heard the rumours correctly that there is yet another decision looming for estate rationalisation and more Sqn disbandments. How long is all this going to take (pulling teeth!) and if not true, then why doesn't someone stamp it out instantly? And is this the final rationalisiation or review or is the buoy going to be sailed around again in a couple of years when the next 'bright ideas' club has to make savings?

[Pontius Navigator]

Change is stability.

After the Javelins went there was a surplus of fighter navigators. When we got the F4 there was a shortage . . .

Then there were the redundancies in '72 and again and again and again.

As the money gets tighter and the world changes so did we.

[Whipping Boy's SATCO]

Read the latest Mission statement from 3 Gp:

No Change, No Chance

I think that sums it up. :hmm:

[Incipient Sinner]

I trust you all read the message from Dr Doom, the new SoS for Defence. Our watchwords must now be 'change' and 'efficiency'.

:(

[Flobadob]

It's time to leave:(

[Jambo Jet]

Stability is only a few years away.

That is NO-ONE LEFT

[FJJP]

I hate to tell you, boys and girls, getting out into the big wide world of golden opportunity ain't going to be the path to riches and stability that you yearn for.

It's even worse out here - you think that the bean counters drive the Forces? You ain't seen nothin' yet! I'll bet you just can't wait to experience the REAL professional bean counters getting at you to cut, for example, office costs. Try working out a 20% saving target - counted paper clip usage recently? Had to convince bored staff that they should use the reverse side of used paper for draft documents to reduce the paper bill?

Suffered the policy changes brought about by knee jerk reaction to press sensationalism? Had to drop everything and provide a mountain of stats just to allow a politician to prove to the press that they ARE doing something? [Then the lorryloads of paper are taken to the local power station to be shredded and burned without actually been read].

Sorry to be a bit of a wet blanket, but the only thing you will lose is the peripheral rubbish you suffer in uniform - the niff-naff and trivia that causes Victor Meldrew to exclaim 'I don't believe it!'

Oh, and the salary scales out here leave a lot to be desired...

[effortless]

One of our project managers in the eighties gave up £64,000 plus performance to become a teacher and we understood why. What ever you think about your insecurity it is as nothing compared with out here. There are no secure jobs outside goverment paid work. That is all there is to it. I am a high earner but I have seen my income go down over the last fifteen years, not up. I have had to reinvent myself regularly to take advantage of what ever is fashionable for companies to spend their money on. Then new bods come in and do the job better for less. This isn't a reflection on my ability but the fact that these people can build on my experience. Jobs we invented in the seventies now have university courses. Competition is to pay less not more.

In 1989 you could get a fortune doing software or hardware engineering. Now every second new degree is coming onto the market in competition. Just look at the advertised salaries. £17,000 pa is not the same as the £250 a day that they were getting then. Or maybe you fancy getting CORGI registered. That is probably your best bet but do you know how to market yourself in that way? As for aviation just look at the other forums. I met a young pilot for a US company who earns less than my cleaner. No line shoot.

It is ****e the way you are getting treated but it is no better here and we don't have the security of the mess. It is lonely and stressfull. There are no dining nights where I work.

[MaroonMan4]

No I suppose that you are all right (but apart from one, everyone that has left has not regretted it one bit - and they are not the bluffing sort).

But I can't quite see how so much Staff and frontline effort is wasted in just going round and round in circles salami slicing the forces in an effort to save money, when actually if someone had a bit of foresight and balls then shed loads could be saved.

We could look at all major projects - why even bother going through the pretense of BLUH when actually day one week one DPA could have said oi! Wastelands replace Lynx for us. The effort and the Staff work not being wasted in the 'lets pretend to look at all the options and not solutionise' and instead be focused to ensure that the whole package was in place, on time and Wastelands didn't screw the military over.

In the same breath, if it has been done for BLUH why not just stop messing around, the NAO says we need extra lift, stop chasing the CH 53 X pipe dream and do it with the Merlin/CH 47 mix that we all know will happen - but at such a slow slow pace as the treacle is waded through.

Historically, when the AH programme was being finalised (only 95 ish) why didn't some have the foresight to correctly see the numbers and force structures instead of now playing musical chairs with all of the pieces (not actually cutting anything, just moving it all around!)

And the excuse of 'well this is where we are now' is pathetic.....if we all did a 2 year tour knowing that the project or decision wasn't going to be implemented for a number of years (i.e. when in another job far removed) and therefore let decisions and actions go astray in the knowledge that you would be no where near when it actually mattered is highly incomptentent. If industry can hold people to account for the past actions (e.g. Rover Management Team) why can't we review the work of those that worked on some of these study/working groups 5 years ago and see exactly what they were doing.

We all know, some are very good and work extremely hard, but sadly the majority appear to be to frightened, scared or not bright enough to argue their case/do the work in order to allow timely and well informed decisions to be made.

Hmmh.......there has to a better way of doing it?

[vecvechookattack]

We wont get stability.....why would we want stability? where is the fun in that? If it was stability I was after I would fly for Bristows or PAS. Stability is the last thing we need.

[glum]

I dunno, I think that the stability Maroon is on about is the knowledge that the RAF structure is a stable, unchanging thing. Bases will always be there, even if aircraft types change, married quarters will always be there, medical support for our loved ones, overseas tours etc etc.

This kind of stability left you with a sense of security and allowed you to concentrate on the job in hand.

These days I find myself wondering what will be chopped next? Will I be moved to a crappy 'leaning' team? Will my aircraft type be scrapped? Who is gonna run my housing / mess / MT / supply next week? Will the people I speak to regularly be moved again so I have to spend another week trying to locate their new offices / phone numbers?

You used to be able to count on a pretty solid length of tour, with an overseas tour at some point, the odd 4 month det somewhere.

These days it seems that a new invention is around every corner, and it's hard to keep up with the constant flux. In fact it's hard to keep abreast of the RAF as a whole, and not retreat into a smaller and smaller world, just so you can keep tabs on the changes!

But I guess the folk at the top feel it is neccessary to change with the times, even if the times change so fast that it's practically impossible. Not to mention the costs involved with the constant change.

Perhaps the world is so unstable, that any organisation trying to involve itself with global affairs doesn't really stand a chance of keeping up.

The only answer is to change (reduce) the British Forces role on the world stage, and that isn't gonna happen anythime soon!

[LoeyDaFrog]

For what my two-penneth is worth, whilst I am getting more and more unsure about my lot in life, the one thing that keeps me going is the fact that, come rain or shine, I will get paud every month for the next 6 or 7 years.
I used to think that the RAF was the be all and end all. Now, when I stop enjoying the here and now of the job I'll leave, otherwise I'll stay put or the security and the pension.

[exleckie]

Before the cold war ended, you knew what you were there for, sat in the crewroom ready for the next QRA.

I think it is now more interesting because we don't know where we are going, we don't know with whom we will be fighting, we don't know how we we will fight them and we don't know when we will be fighting them.

Stability only comes when you stack shelves at your local supermarket.


I know what I would rather do.


Exleckie

[CBA_caption]

Today I was told I was to have an upgrade to the PC in my ground office. Its now Windows 2000! So we've still got 5 years worth of changes to get through to get to today, nevermind changing to meet future demands.

CBA

[vecvechookattack]

Whilst I tend to disagree with the main thread...Stability will breed boredom....

I toatlly agree with the comment about I.T. Many of my civilians friends laugh out loud when I tell them that we are just upgrading to Windows 2000. They can't believe that we still use Floppy discs... they gasp in amazement when I tell them that we only have one colour printer between 50 of us... and that ran out of red ink three weeks ago...

[bakseetblatherer]

"When Will We Get Stability?" If the We is those of you still dong 50 hour+ weeks and 3-6months every year away for the Queen's shillling; the amswer is: Never. If the We is those of us working for ourselves, maybe 30 hours a week and the only time away from home is when we are on holiday; the answer is: PVR!