Red Arrows

[419]

Could someone please help settle an argument.

I'm trying to find out the approx speed that the Red Arrows are flying during their air displays.

Thanks.

[exleckie]

Not as fast as their ego's.

But well done chaps at the Akrotiri families day.

After you had finished, the car park was clear within ten minutes and meant everyone could go home.

[FJJP]

419 - why don't you send them an e-mail and ask the question? They're there to act as a publicity machine, and answering questions from their fans is part of the job...

[Zlin526]

419 - why don't you send them an e-mail and ask the question? They're there to act as a publicity machine, and answering questions from their fans is part of the job...


.........as well as playing golf and modelling the latest fashions in sunglasses. Oh, and playing more golf!

[Incipient Sinner]

In answer to your question...

Neeeeoooow... punchy...punchy....fast...fast..whoosh....whoosh...lookatmel ookatme!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


I hope that clears everything up.

[G-KEST]

What on earth is wrong with some folk. The Arrows are indeed the Royal Air Force Aerobatic Team and right back to the 1960's have always been fine ambassadors for the RAF and the UK generally. Having watched them from the first season on Gnats and been the flying display director at Sywell back in the early 1980's for their first public display on the Hawk it has indeed been a priviledge to admire their skills. I am grateful that such a team has been on the display scene for the last four decades. Thanks to all members present and past.
Cheers,
Trapper 69
:D

[Safety_Helmut]

G-KEST

You're so right, they always give me a hard on when I see them, and then when they actually fly too, well...............:mad:

SH

[Maple 01]

Just don't ask about their recent war record........

[Onan the Clumsy]

I'm trying to find out the approx speed that the Red Arrows are flying during their air displays. I can't give you the speeds throughout the display, but I have a fairly accurate idea what speeds they do right at the beginning and right at the end :ugh:

[Tarnished]

About 360 indicated for most of the formation stuff, the synchros get up to a little more. Flown on a couple of trips with them and they deserve credit for the job they do in the face of unfair jibes from a lot of wannabees IMHO

[dogstar2]

I have known a few of the team members over the years and have had a bit of an insight into what the guys do. I have also flown with them on a number of occasions. I can assure you that the flying they do is very exhillarating and also very very impressive from inside the cockpit. The training regime is extremely tough and the boys work very hard, particularly in their first year. I have been very impressed with they way that the team deals with the admiring public, they are always very welcoming to all. It makes me proud that all the work they put in during their traing season as well as the time away they endure during the display season pays off and that hundreds of thousands of people want to go and see them. They remind people that the RAF is still there - we get very little publicity otherwise.
I believe that the need to slag them off is probably just jealousy. They are just a bunch of normal aircrew mates albeit selected to do they job from a large pool of us who would jump at the chance. Give them a break and perhaps take the time to say well done. They certainly took the time to congratulate the GR4 boys in Cyprus as they returned from the Gulf!!

[BEagle]

The Reds are probably the only RAF folk the great unwashed actually know about these days - apart from gits who get themeselves into The Sun......

Long may they be spared from the beancounters' attentions!

[Autorev]

Maple 1

"Just don't ask about their recent war record........"

At least one of their number earned a DFC during the last GW, which is probably a better war record than most of the current pprune community.

Why are so many people bitter about them - or is it just jealousy?

I wouldn't / couldn't do their job for anything, but think that they do it bloody well.

[factanonverba]

Most main section speeds around 360, as mentioned earlier, synchro loops and rolls slower, 320-330. Hope that helps.

[maxburner]

I had the distinct pleasure to fly in Red 2 on a display a couple of years ago. The team impressed me with their professional approach and the obvious skill with which they fly. Some of the manoeuvres are difficult to describe, let alone execute.

Lots of people knock them, as evidenced here, but I have nothing but admiration for the job they do. I couldn't do it, that's for sure.

As for the speeds, Tarnished gave a sensible answer a few posts ago.

[Maple 01]

Autorev, what I was refering to was their role as 'ramp thieves' in Cyprus during the recent Gulf unplesentness, nothing more, nothing less. The lads and lasses struggling to find space for all the operational types on the base weren't overjoyed to have the Reds pitch up to do thier pre-season training - I think they should have gone and done it elsewere rather than increase the workload in the middle of live ops - unless PR is more important?

is it just jealousy?

I'm jealous of all flying types, but not enought to be unable to be objective about that perticular incdent!

[Megaton]

Never let the truth get in the way of a good whinge, Maple 01. They spent the first part of SPRING HAWK that year at St Mawgan because there was no ramp space, only arriving in Cyprus after pretty much everyone else had left. There was no conflict for ramp space so I'd give up on the cheap, ill-informed jibes.

The public perception of the Reds is almost wholly positive and that reflects upon the greater RAF - now, is that a good thing or not?

[A2QFI]

And ask the warlike bods how their formation aeros are! Both jobs take skill, bravery and application and both groups have it in spades. Valid comparisons are difficult!

[Meldrew]

Can't knock the Reds. they are great and neccessary ambassaders for the force, like others have said, they are about the only image of the RAF that the public are allowed to be aware or proud of these days. Saw them at Biggin yesterday, the flat display unfortunately, but still very professional and excellent entertainment. What more could we ask for?

[Maple 01]

Ham Phisted
I'll just go and tell the 'ramp rats' they were wrong then, must have been a figment of their imagination :hmm:

[Megaton]

Just you do that. I was there too. One KC-135 in the hangar with a collapsed u/c. One broken VC-10. Det of Harriers and GR4s passing through. Don't believe all you're told. Masses of ramp space.

[Jordan D]

As a non-flying, non-taxpayer, student type, if there was one thing that has grabbed my attention about the RAF its the Reds ... sure they aren't be all and end all of the RAF, but my God are they the best publicity tool the RAF have. They do a cracking job and I know a lot of people who will travel hundreds of miles to see an Arrows display.

Jordan

[PPRuNe Pop]

There are at least two ex-Reds on PPRuNe that I know of so I expect you get a definitive answer soon.

[BootFlap]

Maple 01,

Having gone through Akrotiri a couple of times during the period you are talking about, Ham Phisted is correct. Lots of KC-135 (especially the one on it's nose!) and plenty of us trailing through, using up the ramp space. Didn't see a single red there and seem to recall a mate of mine going to St Mawgan during the shortlist week.

bootflap

[rivetjoint]

That'd be the KC-135 that didn't have the wing on jacks...like the maint guy thought?

[VoicesFromTheCreche]

The Reds are Ok, but we always liked the RN Sharks better.

If the Reds are as necessary to the Air Force as suggested in previous replies, surely the RN needs its display team back to aid our flagging recruitment?

Si Click; any chance? 4 ship Merlin "The Blue Whales" perhaps...:E

[The Swinging Monkey]

Autorev,

That was a little uncalled for old bean.
I know the chap you refer to about the gong, but even he himself will tell you of his embarrassment at receiving it!! (he has told me that he got it because he was there, and so many had to be dished out - 'right place/right time' blah.

nevertheless, I know them all quite well, and have to say that they are a great bunch of blokes. No big egos, no big heads. just sheer unadulterated professionalism.

Like BEagle, I hope the bean counters don't look too close.
kind regards
TSM

[Gainesy]

the flat display unfortunately, but still very professional and excellent entertainment. What more could we ask for?

...the rolling display?:)

Some get blase about the Reds. You should see the effect they have on a foreign crowd who have not seen them before. Stunned is a good fit.

[KENNYR]

There is no doubt that the Red Arrows are a professional group of top aviators...................but isnt it about time they became less boring? The same old displays, in the same old aircraft, at the same old venues and the same old posing.

As for the speed they fly the display at, I am sure that the speed is infinitely variable.

[BEagle]

Perhaps it's time for a new paint job?

It's a shame that the Hawk looks so dull compared to the Gnat - and the dog's dick smoke pod doesn't help.

But it's only the Hawk itself which looks dull, the display is anything but. It is constrained by the huggy-fluffy rule makers after lesser teams' accidents, but pretty darn good nonetheless!

[419]

Thanks for all the answers everyone.:ok:

[Pontius Navigator]

If the Reds are instantly recognised as elite and of the RAF which reflects to the greater good, perhaps we should all wear red flying suits?

At least it would stop us being mistaken for an aglab or BP tanker driver.

[Tarnished]

KENNYR

I would love to hear what changes you have in mind.

What would you do? How would you make them less boring?

Maybe a new thread? Red Arrow Changing Rooms Edition, get smiley smiley Carol Smiley and Lawrence Lovely-Ellen Bowen in to spice it up.

I still think they do a great job for UK PLC.

T

[ZH875]

I still think they do a great job for UK PLC

Or should that read "I still think they do a great job for British Waste-a-space".

Disband them and save a fortune, the Typhoon is enough to bring wannabee pilots to the recruiting office, 'Rise above the rest - at a speed in excess of Mach 1'

[detgnome]

Having seen the paint job on the Hawk display, maybe the reds should take their hawks along to 'pimp my ride'*. Flash new paintjob, bling bling alloys and take the engine out to make room for some monster stereo!

* Perhaps that should be more correctly 'chav my ride' for a UK based team!

[KENNYR]

Tarnished, perhaps a change of aircraft type. Maybe they should try the Harrier where vertical aspects of the display could be included, dramatic speed changes, formation transitions etc.. I agree that they are synonymous with the Royal Air Force image but surely they can add some "spice" to the proceedings.