Tips for Qantas Cadetship

[Condensation]

G'day,

I'm planning to try out for the Qantas Cadetship in probably about 3 years time, just wondering whether there are any valuable tips for the tests and interview you could give to me and what sort of things I should be doing at this age to give me a better chance of being accepted in the program. I know this might be a bit early but I'd would like to start preparing now and doing things I should be doing.

What could I do to set myself apart from the other applicants and give myself a bigger chance of being accepted? Your help and replies will be greatly appreciated.

Cheers,

Condensation

[*Lancer*]

Biggest thing to do now is make sure you cover the subject requirements (Physics/Maths/English etc), and do well in them! :ok:

[Condensation]

I'm in NSW so what other 2 subjects should I be choosing that will help me? Thanks

[Keg]

What ever other subjects you enjoy the most! History, Chem, Commerce, etc.

Don't sweat the subjects too much. They get you over the initial hurdle and into the psych test. It's the 'other' stuff they want (leadership, decision making, communication skills, etc) that will decide it for you. So, grab any 'extra' experience you can in those areas. Join the Air Force Cadets, play footy, join the school play. Anything that broadens your 'non-technical' skills is a good thing.

[tinpis]

the Air Force Cadets, play footy, join the school play. Anything that broadens your 'non-technical' skills is a good thing.

:rolleyes: The Masonic lodge.

[Keg]

I've heard the Stonecutters is better for QF selection! :E :}

[tinpis]

Indeed ...it doesnt hurt to learn the secret knob squeeze.

:hmm:

[En-Rooter]

Other two subjects that should help:

Modern History; i.e. State of Origin.

What are the game results Brett Kenny V Wallace Lewis head to head etc.

Super 12.

Come on you mighty TAH's.

Home Brewing 101;

The different yeast combinations to create Tooheys New, Tooheys Dry and Crownies. Also the relative merits of using Grolsch re-sealable bottles V bottle lossage due pressing the caps on too hard.

Rooter ;)

[Old Smokey]

This may be a totally irrelevant suggestion, reminiscent of a bygone era, and totally inappropriate for QANTAS Cadet Pilot selection, but may I suggest that maximising your knowledge and understanding of aviation and all things aeronautical might be a good 3 year plan.

Additional subjects? Why not try computer science, not the dime a dozen I.T. stuff that any 10 year old can do, but REAL computer programming. There is a real market for professional pilots with computer PROGRAMMING capability. My own airline snaps up aspiring cadets with this ability, enormously valuable to the airline, and immensely profitable to you a few years down the track.

Flying is a very technical business, forget the non-technical cr@p.

Regards,

Old Smokey

[MkVIII]

Agree wholeheartedly with what OS said above - learn EVERYTHING you can about aircraft, aviation history, avaition FUTURE (where are we going), the history of QANTAS, the history of aviation in Australia. It is not only an important part of the interview process, it will show you are keen and not just doing it for money (as if Cadets actually get paid much beyond the dole anyway!!!)

A knowledge of computers and basic programming is EXTREMELY FAVOURABLE!!! Not only will you find it easier with the FMC etc, but your knowledge will help you in the training as well.

I have never been a QANTAS cadet, but I have heard that they don't very often actually get to "have a go", but tend to be cockpit gopher and stand-in flight attendant. Get used to sitting around doing very little. Consider OTHER options as well...

As to subjects at school, you MUST take the highest mathematics possible (General maths etc won't cut it - not even a look-in!), Physics, and English. Chemistry is STRONGLY advised (biology and Geology is not considered by 90% of the worlds airlines). STRONGLY advise Mathematics 2 (matrices, vectors etc) which in most states also delves into computer programming. Do do IT if it is offered at your school, and if not, do it via correspondance or night school if need be!

Ine ssence, you want to be as employable as possible, and that means a good aviation oriented education.

Social skills are important too, but smarts take precendent to knowing what a fullback is!

[En-Rooter]

Wash your mouth out, they are five-eights not fullbacks:(

[Condensation]

Thanks a lot for your advice guys, it's very helpful and is greatly appreciated for your time! Do keep them coming though :ok:

Cheers!

[MkVIII]

Condenasation, do yourself a favour, and buy a book on BAK - Basic Aeronautical Knowledge. Have a good read.

Now, Mr. En-Rooter, I am under the impression that 5/8ths are second row, and full backs are LAST row... so, it's like comparing apples and oranges.

Heck, I was a ra-ra player for 5 years.... a forward though.

[Condensation]

Thanks for that suggestion MkVIII, I will buy as soon as possible.

I'm also doing some gliding soon if it helps, I highly doubt I will do any powered flying right now besides a TIF which I've done already.

[MkVIII]

Gliding is good, but do try to get more powered flight if / when possible.

ANY aeronautical experience is good, but helicopter experience is not overly recommended unless you want to do it. it means pretty much squat-didly to airlines, besides being prohibitively expensive.

Read here a LOT, ask questions a LOT, and don't be shy asking - no such thing as a silly question. Just make sure you point out you are a learning novice, as some guys here can be pretty caustic and downright disrespectful to others (done i myself, ashamed to say!)

Good luck mate!

[Condensation]

Thanks alot for those words and advice MkVIII!

I will make sure I ask questions when I have any, once again everyone's help has been greatly appreciated. That's all the questions I have for now, thanks!

Cheers,

Condensation

[Keg]

Flying is a very technical business, forget the non-technical cr@p.

Flying may be a technical business but the effective management and use of that technology is absolutely a 'non-technical' skill. Additionally, for a cadetship, the psych is a major hurdle and that is almost entirely based on your non-technical skills. You won't even get a look in at an interview to expound your depth of aviation knowledge if you can't work in a team, show poor leadership, won't speak up, have poor situational awareness, etc.

As for IT skills, I had bugger all (and still do) and yet I reckon I have a pretty good clue on how to work the FMC to get out of it what I want. (Being naturally lazy and wanting to find the easiest path to get an outcome also helps! :E ). You only need to have an understanding of what the FMC is trying to achieve. If you can programme your VCR or mobile phone, you're well on your way to handling your FMC- again, only if you have the aviation smarts to know what you want to achieve.

Caution on 'highest maths possible'. You do NOT need four unit maths (NSW). 3U is recommended in my book but you could get by on a decent 2U score (not the general maths as others have mentioned) if it wasn't your strongest point. It'd want to be pretty decent though. The Qantas web site would assist with that one.

MkVIII may not have been a QF cadet but some of the serious posters on this thread have beenand MkVIII is talking out the top of his head with respect to his 'gopher' comment. A cadet when employed by QF is a Second Officer. They are treated by most crews as any other S/O (although the treatment of S/Os by some crews isn't as exemplary as it could/should be but that is for another thread). 'Stand in flight attendant'? the only thing missing is the ;) and :p after that statement! :rolleyes:

Finally, a bit of advice that was passed onto me by a former instructor- with a touch of irony in his voice when he said it!

Lots of people will give you advice over the years. The really hard part will be working out what is right and what is crap.

Not saying that the other advice on this thread is crap and mine is spot on either, just don't take everyone's advice at face value. You need to weigh it all up and take in information from a variety of sources. At least you're asking questions which is always a good start! :D :ok:

[Bendigo]

The biggest hurdle you face is passing the aptitude tests . As you probably already know cadets have to score higher than DE pilots , and QF fail around 90% of cadet applicants on these tests . If you pass you only have the final interview which is about a 50-50 bet.

My advice - do the PATS(www.******************) course ( it got me through ) a couple of times , group and individual . Work hard at this stuff then your chances of passing will rise from 10% to around 90% . Then you only have to prepare about the interview.

Goodluck with all it would be a great program to crack .

[tinpis]

Tell an old bloke wtf this means?

http://www.******************/1/picture4.jpg

[En-Rooter]

Mr MKVIII,

A little football famil!

Second row is just that, in both rugby and league.

The 'last' row in league is the 'lock' or the 'lock forward' in rugby he is referred to as the 'number eight' or sometimes as the 'lock' or 'lock forward'

'5/8ths' in league are outside the 'half back' (who feeds the scrum). The similar position in rugby is the 'fly-half' some who played rugby would refer to anybody who played in the backs as 'gutless backs' (a bit nasty I think!)

Sorry guys for not being so serious, just empasising that if you think nothing but aviation you turn into a boring bastard. Sport emphasises teamwork and gives you something to talk about and is also a good icebreaker.

"How about those TAH's ehh"

:ok:

[shnev]

the best advice I can give is have a back-up plan! Work hard and give it a go, but it is very very competitive. If your working hard 3 years just to get into one cadetship (a small scope in a large industry) and.. if the unfortunate happens and you don't get in, you'll be really cut up.

will you still learn to fly and find a General Aviation job if it doesn't work out for you? You'd probably need to consider it.

[MkVIII]

Keg,
What I was trying to tell the young guy is to be as fore-planned as possible - ANY additional qualifications are merely a plus, so working toward a goal above and beyond that which is bare minimum is the way to go. To suggest the minimum is just asking for trouble, and I do NOT agree with your lacadaisical attitude one single bit! Gone are the days of "She'll be right mate" and "Near enough is good enough". Suggesting otherwise is utter rubbish!

Condensation, listen to the older generation of pilots, the ones who will be TRAINING you, and CHECKING you. I happen to know Old Smokey through work - a man with in excess of 25,000 hours flying, including checking and training, and training at the BASE level, AND Cadet selection and training. I'd take his advice over a QANTAS F/O any day mate.

If you exhibited the degree of laisse-fair in my airline I have read about here, you'd fail your check in a second.

[Condensation]

My current back up plan is if I don't pass the Cadetship, I will go to a flying school as a lot of people do and then later try for the Cadetship once more but Stage 2, if I still don't make it I would be more than happy to go to NT to fly in GA as long as I get a job! :ok:

I'm just a bit worried about my maths at the moment, by the looks of things now I'd only be able to handle 2U maths :uhoh: . Please keep the comments coming, they're greatly appreciated!

Many Thanks!

[*Lancer*]

Condensation, listen to ALL generations of pilots. They all have something to offer... some good, some bad. Focussing on taking advice from any one group will give you an unbalanced outlook. Managing the information intake never ends! ;)

[Laikim Liklik Susu]

Very good point Lancer.

Balance your perspective, but DO listen to the guys who have been at it a while, especially if you can receive advice from training and check captains.

Be well prepared, and do and be your best! Forewarned is forearmed!

Tinpis - dang it, I never did learn semaphore! :D

[7gcbc]

Condensation,

Keg seems to be in line with what I think, I can't tell you about the idyosynch's and fashions of the current QF selection procedure, but I went through the Aer Lingus one (many moons ago) and was successful to the final stage, got short listed and well, mortgage babies , nappies, debt, guinness, and other stuff got in the way.

You can practice the numeric, spatial, verbal tests, and it will help you, at least you'll be familar with the general format and so forth, so you will at least know the technique. You can't blag these as the volume of questions and the ratio to be passed is high (you have to answer at least 75-85% of the questions to be scored), in otherwords its a pressure task, get practice on the type and generics , and then you'll know to move on from the difficult ones and come back once you have completed the test - if you have time that is.

The advice about sport and teamwork is invaluable, the selection panel are not looking for a know it all, they want a well balanced chap who is comfortable in his own skin, confident but not arrogant, decisive, but not impulsive, infact just a normal bloke.
(keep chasing skirt to the pilots - its a fail if HR sniff it)

The HR people will needle you to try and upset you (thats their job) , the pilots on the panel will look for interest and basically see if you are a good likeable bloke who will fit in, they won't expect you to know vref in 33 degree Xwind gusting for a 330, they want to see a keen interest in aviation and cross section ability (which they will guage from other facets of your life, if you can buy beers they are usually yours!!!)

above all, be relaxed and when you see something curvey in the phsyc test, say balloons or parachutes and not tits........ :D

oh, also , if you can afford it, get a class I out of the way as soon as you can , no point going all the way to find that some medical condition precludes you from selection.

above all, enjoy, have fun and be yourself!!!!!!!!!!!!

ps: I have probably done more phsyc tests in my work than most line pilots do in a decade, and you know in the commercial world, they're rubbish, just don't discount them for lines....... would have been easier if i made the list with that cunning irish airline.

[Condensation]

Thanks alot guys, I have another question which I'd like to ask but I didn't want to start a new thread for it so if someone could answer it for me, it'd be greatly appreciated.

On the Qantas website, it quotes the minimum requirements for Direct Entry is:

500 hours in command of fixed wing aircraft (excluding ICUS), or

250 hours in command of fixed wing aircraft (of which up to 100 hours may be ICUS) and 1000 hours First Officer time on turbine RPT operations, or

150 hours in command of fixed wing aircraft (excluding ICUS) and 1500 hours First Officer time on turbine RPT operations, or

250 hours in command of fixed wing aircraft (of which up to 100 hours may be ICUS) and 500 hours in command of rotary wing aircraft.


Can someone please explain to me what these mean and whether you only need one of them or not? IE For the first one, does it mean minimum requirements is either 500 PIC hours or etc.

Realistically how many hours will you need to have to get accepted? Because if it is 500 PIC hours, it sounds very little (I may be wrong).

Your help would be greatly appreciated! Cheers.

[Transition Layer]

Condensation,

Whilst 500hrs command is the minimum requirement to submit an application for Direct Entry, you'll find the average number of hours before someone gets a shot at testing is probably more like 1500 total time (so anywhere from 1000-1300hrs command.) Thats the way it's been in the last year or so, but the hrs may have dropped in recent times as recruiting has ramped up a bit. It is entirely feasible that you'll achieve 500hrs command within your first year in GA, given that you'll already have around 100-150 command from your training.

Most people who are aiming for a career with Qantas generally submit an application the same day they reach the min requirements, whether that be when they get the hours, pass their last ATPL subject etc - i know i did!

All the best with it.

Cheers,
TL

[Condensation]

Many thanks TL! And everyone elses help.

[Keg]

Gone are the days of "She'll be right mate" and "Near enough is good enough". Suggesting otherwise is utter rubbish!


MkVIII. Couldn't agree more but can't find anywhere I suggested it. I didn't do 4U maths because I hated maths. I did 3U because it helped with my flying career and I felt I was capable. Rather than 'failing' 3U, I'd suggest that someone who wasn't that flash at maths or didn't enjoy it work their backside off at getting a bloody good 2U mark!

As for the implication that I'm laissez-faire, that's a bit rough considering you wouldn't know me from a brick. I said my 'natural' state was to be lazy and find the easiest way through. It doesn't mean that I live my life that way although I do believe in conserving energy so it's available to spend on the important stuff- like the big picture! That is one of the advantages of my 'attitude'. It means that I tend to not get caught up in some of the BS that abounds when we strap into an aircraft- like whether I said 'checked' or 'checks' :rolleyes: I aim for perfection, I just don't beat myself up about it when I fail to reach that level from time to time.

There is one final advantage to my attitude. I take information from all comers and won't necessarily discard information just because someone has less experience. There are plenty of crash comics that show that those with the thousands of hours aren't always right and there are a couple of QF examples where it was the bloke with less than 1000 hours that provided the timely advice that stopped something that would have made the excursion onto the golf course look like a nice place for a picnic. Again though, I'm not saying that the experienced blokes on this thread aren't correct, just providing an laternative view.

So, imply that I'm no good and wouldn't pass the check in your airline if you must (and indirectly slag QF drivers at the same time). I hope it makes you feel just that little bit more worthy that you've put the 'Qantas F/O' back in his place and reminded him to know where it is Glad I could be of service to you. Mind you, iff that's the attitude that you show up with in your airline then I'm pretty glad I don't fly there. It'd be hard to get the message through to you that something isn't right because I obviously don't have the vast experiences of the captain! :rolleyes:

Condensation, good luck with the career choices. It sounds like you've got the same attitude that I had when I was going for the cadetship. 'May as well take me now as it'll save you having to process my application again in a couple of years time'! :ok:

[Chris Higgins]

All sounds good to me!

1. Focus on strengths

2. Develop weaknesses into strengths

3. Don't beat yourself up.

4. Learn to fly!

5. Have an alternative plan

6. Get a good medical before you spend any more money.

[Condensation]

It sounds like you've got the same attitude that I had when I was going for the cadetship. 'May as well take me now as it'll save you having to process my application again in a couple of years time'! :ok:

Keg, is that a good thing? :)