360 Turn after takeoff

[+'ve ROC]

I was on an A340 out of Queen Alia Apt in Amman and upon takeoff, at about 1500 - 2000 feet the aircraft performed a full 360 turn.

Why?

[Farrell]

Because it needed to?

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

I used to work at an airfield where such a manouevre was part of the departure procedure.

[skyfarmer]

Probably to gain height to get on to IR route. I have not looked at plates for the airfield in question. I think you will find Zurich has similar procedures??, I think that is the airfield we were discussing here the other day. And probably that fiels down South Island in New Zealand, not Queenstown, the one in the fijords, just cant think of the name at the moment....have been there often enough as well

[Byrna]

Hi Skyfarmer,

Your comment about the Zurich (Kloten?) airport also requiring this 360 turn is interesting. Is it because of Zurich being surrounded by mountains that this maneuver is required to gain altitude by any chance, or is there another reason?

John

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

Skyfarmer - Milford Sound?

The procedure where I worked was to clear high ground south of the field. They probably don't use it nowadays as moden jets have better climb rates.

[pax britanica]

AS Heathrow Director points out these manouvers must be less common due improved climb performance.

I was in Beijing in late 1990s and on an AF 747 100/200 routing Beijing -CDG we did the 360 turn -left after take off -and completed a sweeping climbing turn to pass back overhead the field at I guess about 3000-4000 feet. Thiswas because there are serious mountains(capped by THE WALL) north of Beijing and with the runways oriented north and south that was how they got the heavies over the wall.

Quite a spectacular manouver when on board

However 8 months later its a 747-400 and we just climb straight on out.
PB

[Simtech]

Could well be Milford Sound. Airfield info. can be found here (http://www.aip.net.nz/pdf/NZMF.pdf)

What a beautiful place it is! :ok:

[T.Buchanan]

I am surprised by the statement concerning the Zurich departures. The only procedure where a major turn is foreseen is on RWY16, where a turn via overhead is needed due to political constraints. The turn is about a 270° turn (if heading westwards).

[zimi]

Further to T. Buchanan's comments, please note that the Zurich departures in question do not imply a 360° turn. It's simply a noise abatement issue and westbound traffic on the southbound runways are not allowed to turn right. So they turn left and turn overhead, which is a 270° turn. It has nothing to do with mountains, Zurich is not "surrounded" by mountains as one of you guys has claimed. To Swiss standards, Zurich is flat terrain.

[Swedish Steve]

Many years ago I was on a Gulf Air B737 out of Shiraz in Iran. We had to do two complete 360 turns to gain enough altitude to clear the mountains.

[as737700]

I heard that at Queenstown, some of the departing aircraft need to do 360s until they are allowed to enter the airways or something like that...don't quote me on that

[Konkordski]

I was on an A340 out of Queen Alia Apt in Amman


I've also been on a Royal Jordanian A340 out of Amman, and also experienced a 360 turn - I wondered if it was connected with waiting for transit through Israeli airspace to the west.

[cormacshaw]

SID DHARKE 1E for rwy 02 at Kathmandu (VNKT) requires a climb of 6000ft within 4 miles of teh airport via a left-hand c.540º turning manouvre (turn rate varies with one short straight stretch) followed by a 90º right turn to head on your way. I'd say the view is terrific.

[taiar]

Hello,
Sorry for the delayed reaction in replying to your post. But the answer about the 360 after take off or sometimes even a boxed pattern is for climb restriction going into Isreali airspace.

The A-340-200 as most do know is not a climber, IF your lucky you get 700 feet per minute on a summer day on a loaded flight from amman to JFK DTW 0r ORD.

Upon crossing the Jordanian Isreali Border, on a west bound flight they have to be at 12,000 feet if memory serves me correctly. Queen Alia airport is about 2,800 MSL so that means the A-340 need to gain 10,000 feet before entering Isreali Airspace, hence the 360 turn or the box pattern which adds about 15-20 minutes on the flight.

Also with the climb gradient being so low on the A-340, Royal Jordanian was forced to change the departure time during the summer month from around noonish back to 8 or 9 am on the AMM-US flight. That way the take off was done before desert temps. soared to the mid 30-40 degress C, combined with the 2800 MSL feild altitude, the result was real high density alititude and such high performace hits on take off and climb, that the only solutions would be to fly a half empty A-340 to keep the weights down, or try to get the wheels off the ground before 9:00 am when the temps where still relativly low.

Hope that sheds some light.

-T