Glider Instructor Medical Standards

[MaximumPete]

Sadly a young man lost his life when a glider crashed during a spinning exercise.

The Inquest jury brought in a verdict of accidental death. The exact causes of the accident will never be known.

Whilst it would be wrong to suggest that the cause of the accident was medically related it does seem strange that an instructor who is unfit to hold a Class 2 medical certificate can conduct ab initio training.

If I've got this wrong and there has been recent changes in the law my apologies to those concerned.

MP

[Wizofoz]

There are some serious questions as to whether the instructor met the relevant medical requirements, HOWEVER-

A gliding instructor is not required to hold a CAA medical, they are required to be fit to pass a DVLA level two standard, unless they are a proffestional instructor (Which most gliding instructors aren't). Gliding is conducted under the auspices of the BGA which has it's own medical requirements, AND-

there is no evidence that the instructors medical condition contrubuted to the accident.

[Buitenzorg]

MaximumPete,

Whilst you are, in a literal sense, correct, you should know that for many decades now gliding in the UK has been quite successfully self-regulated through the British Gliding Association, who set and enforce standards with the full support of the CAA.

Contrary to what ardent supporters of government interference in all aspects of life will have one believe, this has not led to an aluminium (OK: wood and fabric, or fiberglass) rain on citizens’ heads. Yes, accidents have happened, some fatal. Accidents, some fatal, happen during just about any human activity: windsurfing, hill walking, even dancing sometimes. But aviation is unique in that there exists a very vocal group of people who hate the idea of anything other than birds flying, and alarmist comments from aviation professionals, even offhand, will only add strength to their arguments.

To illustrate how far over the top these people can get: at the gliding club where I flew (not in the UK), we had to spend quite a bit of time and money to defend against a complaint of glider noise of all things. This with an active motocross track within shouting distance which somehow didn’t seem to disturb these sensitive souls.

[MaximumPete]

Buitenzorg

I hear what you say and agree with you in that the gliding fraternity is indeed not the only self-regulating sport. For example yachting instructors have to achieve certain qualifications before they can instruct, but the consequences of an incapacitation would not be quite as catatrophic. I think we could go on forever in this vein.

My "alarmist comments" are meant to thought provoking, nothing more. I think that the BGA do an excellent job of regulating all aspects of the sport.

Perhaps the motocross track people were protesting against the gliders so they could attract the spectators into their sport?

MP

[HOODED]

Whilst everything said so far is true, the CAA are starting to get involved in regulating gliding. C of As and Modifications will be more strictly regulated to CAA rules and this will on cost grounds alone start to reduce gliding in this country. Coupled with this is the ever increasing airspace restrictions which make cross country gliding more dificullt. Requirements for transponders will be another nail in the gliding coffin. Also I know a lot of Gliding Instuctors and quite a few are also PPL holders for Motor Gliders and Tug aircraft and as such have to keep up to CAA Class 2 standards medicaly.

[shortstripper]

This medical alarmism is a complete red herring IMHO! It's usually voiced by young instructors who can't see past the idea that "older" folk should be retired off quietly to allow them more work. Funny how their opinion changes as they get older and the prospect of slightly reduced chances of remaining class 1 become real :hmm:

The BGA system has been working well for far longer than the CAA/JAR PPL/BCPL/CPL ones have, and has been pointed out, very few accidents have been attributed to health. If you took all accidents involving gliders I think you'd be hard pressed to find any where an instructor was proven to have died or become incapacited whilst flying a student.

I'm no doctor but I'm sure that it's known that any of us could suffer a serious medical event "out of the blue" whatever our medical ticket says about our fitness. True, this is less likely if you have passed a class 1 medical ... but it doesn't rule it out! :uhoh:

Personally, I think it would be quite refreshing if everyone, from pilots to politions, could look at something that works well and say "Hmmm, that works well .... let's leave it alone then". :rolleyes:

SS

PS. I have no health issues, so I'm not saying this because my health is in question BTW.

[SKYYACHT]

As stated, risk exits in everything. I think that if you examine the statistics, you will find that there is only one serious accident for thousands of launches. What galls me most is that one accident should merit so much attention, given that the self regulating gliding fraternity are consistently safe operators.

Too much hype perhaps?


I have met and flown with many VERY elderley gliding pilots, and some have frankly worried me by their sheer age. however, not one has let me down, and the value of their knowledge and wisdom far outweighed the risks associated with flying with them.

Nanny state has far too much involvement in our lives.

[Future Pundit]

I will have to disagree with most of the gliding fraternity's view. I have flown gliders for 20 years and have instructed for 15 years.

Although self regulated under the BGA without any problem, the movement as a whole is aging with little young blood entering at the bottom. Thus the instructor base is gradually increasing in age. Many instructors are unpaid so the idea of older instructors holding onto jobs does not hold any ground for me.

I would welcome the same medical standards to be applied to gliding as to PPL SEP instructors. Also I would like to see all solo glider pilots have the same medical standards as the NPPL pilots. After all, we fly in the same airspace.

I also welcome an increase in C of A inspection standards, and would like to see these done by qualified aircraft engineers (I have seen some gliders issued with a C of A which make me balk). There is some history here with how aircraft inspectors were allocated by the BGA with very little in the way of professional training required, just word of mouth and a kind word. A change in the BGA technical staff has resulted in new inspectors having to prove some training and experience of aircraft engineering.

This point of view will probably infuriate some, however as a movement, we need to raise our game to protect the future of the sport (and lives).

[shortstripper]

This point of view will probably infuriate some

Not infuriate, but it does depress :ugh: .

I haven't done any serious gliding for nearly 20 years now, but before that I was as keen as any. Gliding to me was a way to fly when money was more than just tight! I also learnt an awful lot about airmanship, co-operation, team spirit, airframe and general maintenance. Costs were minimal because the old wood and fabric gliders were easily repairable and there were plenty of experienced people passing on their skills. The membership was split very approximately 40% retired, 40% young and 20% middle aged. Our instructors were perhaps "older" than equivalent PPL instructors (although my first PPL instructor was a retired WW2 bomber pilot!) but they were extremely competent. There were very few accidents that I can remember attributed to age or gliders breaking up. Then, like now, most accidents were stall spin, or very occasional mid-airs (between gliders normally). I'm now officially stuck in the middle age category :ugh: and represent the one constant reason gliding is an ageing sport ... Work/time constraints stop us 25-55's from affording whole days to gliding. The other reason is fewer younger people showing an interest. This I attribute to us slowly becoming a nation of "watchers" rather than "doers". With exceptions of course, many kids now would rather watch telly or play on sims, than actually get out and do for real! ... a sad fact, but it seems a real one.

Given the above, how will hugely increasing the cost of gliding help stimulate the sport???

Many instructors are unpaid so the idea of older instructors holding onto jobs does not hold any ground for me.

Sorry, my post made a generalisation that covered instructors of all types. Gliding, is of course mostly voluntary and unpaid. But then? How will forcing these voluntary unpaid gliding instructors take a class one medical do anything other drive them away? :confused:

I also welcome an increase in C of A inspection standards, and would like to see these done by qualified aircraft engineers (I have seen some gliders issued with a C of A which make me balk).

I have seen some powered aircraft issued with a C of A which have made me balk!!! :uhoh: I might be wrong but I think that gliders are now being forced to adopt full C of A to JAR standards by qualified engineers. Why, I don't know? What is wrong with a similar system to PFA or the old BGA system but with qualified inspector sign offs? I might be behind with this bit, as it's all changing so fast!

As I said .... Personally, I think it would be quite refreshing if everyone, from pilots to politions, could look at something that works well and say "Hmmm, that works well .... let's leave it alone then".

By inevitably increasing costs and driving away unpaid instructors, we will be shutting the doors to those youngsters who do want to get off their bums by pricing them out. The "oldies" will also be driven off by costs and strict (but of doubtful benefit) medical standards, and we will be left with just the (few) well healed, self congratulatory clique of pilots that have always plagued the sport. If there is anything good to come of such a sea change, it will be that they will have to remember what it was to drive a winch or tow each other about :E

Shame really, I always hoped to go back to soaring in my old age :(

SS

[ATP_Al]

I would welcome the same medical standards to be applied to gliding as to PPL SEP instructors. Also I would like to see all solo glider pilots have the same medical standards as the NPPL pilots. After all, we fly in the same airspace.

Solo glider pilots do have to conform to the same medical standards as solo NPPL pilots (DVLA group 1). Instructors have to conform to DVLA group 2 standard, the same as NPPL holders allowed to fly with passengers. Surely instructing ab-initios incurs a higher level of safety than passenger carrying, as even a very inexperienced student has a better chance of landing the aircraft in an emergency than a passenger.

After five years of gliding I have no issues with the way the BGA regulates our sport and think that the CAA and GA as a whole could learn a lot from us!

Al