Pending Clearance

[crystalballwannabe]

I've heard more than one operator lately depart OCTA lately with the call "Climbing FLXXX pending clearance" to which centre reply with the normal statement "Approaching FL180 contact centre on XXXXX for clearence". This statement gets more annoying than departed at "time XX" when you are forced to listen to area frequencies for long periods of time. May seem padantic but its starting to really irritate me!

[Howard Hughes]

Yep me too...;)

Cheers, HH.

:ok:

[swh]

crystalballwannabe,

What should one say if the intended cruise level is in controlled airspace and one does not have a clearance ?

:ok:

[VH-VIN]

I would like to hear the answer to that one too.
Spoke to Brisbane Centre, they asked all the controllers and they didnt know either!
If you were in NZ the call would be climbing FL 180.
Your flight plan may be FL 250 but as you dont have a clearance you cant say climbing FL 250.
Couldn't find anything in the AIP but that seems to be the case with most Aussie radio procedures!

[crystalballwannabe]

Aircraft: “melbourne centre Birdog21 departure”

Centre: Go Ahead

Aircraft: “Birdog21 departed crapville at 43, tracking 225, climbing flight level 230, hatty at 54”

To which centre replies “Birdog21, melbourne centre, approaching flight level 180 contact centre on 123.4 for airways clearance.

OR

Aircraft: “Birdog21 departed crapville at 43, tracking 225, climbing flight level 180, hatty at 54”

To which cente replies “Birdog21, melbourne centre, approaching flight level 180 contact centre on 123.4 for airways clearance.

In any case, it is not necessary to state “pending clearance”. Centre knows the flight planned cruise altitude is in controlled airspace!

In my opinion, the first report is more correct as you are confirming your flight planned altitude on first contact and errors can be rectified immediately.

[swh]

crystalballwannabe,

Your first report reply is fairly standard if no traffic is about, you go somewhere with a few arrivals and departures along similar routes you will not get that reply from CNTR.

ENR 59.2 asks for "intended cruise level" as part of the departure report, whist "pending clearance" is not required, to me it would tell others on frequency that you will be maintaining an altitude OCTA and/or non RVSM if you dont get a clearance.

I would only flight plan in non RVSM airspace if non RVSM equipped, my intent may be to seek a clearance into RVSM using "negative RVSM", so ATC flight planned level in that case would not be the intended level either.

Would you still make that call if you had traffic at FL190, FL200, ATC flight plan FL270 (non RVSM), and intended final level FL330 ?

:ok:

[king oath]

Crystals first example was the correct one.

Lock it in Eddie!

[Jet_A_Knight]

I would have thought ' ...........climbing FLXXX, Request Clearance '

[drshmoo]

Jet_A_Knight
fair call

[chief wiggum]

Aircraft: “melbourne centre Birdog21 departure .”

Centre : "Birdog21, Go ahead".

I though that this was removed as a requirement a couple of years ago!

I also am NOT a big fan of "pending clearance".

Here's another Question for you....

Say you depart OCTA, to crz IFR in FL's, but don't get a clearance for a while. You are heading 090.Class E LL is 8500'. Do you then CRZ at 8500' until you get cleared ??? or do you descend to 7000' ?

IF you maintain 8500, you ARE OCTA, but at a VFR and NON hemispherical level. If you descend to 8000', you are non hemispherical. It is ridiculous to descend to 7000', only to have to climb again!

However, having said that. I haven't heard too many people NOT getting clearance prior to CLASS E LL!

[DeltaSix]

I'd stay below Class E ( above LSA or MSA ) till I get a clearance for the FL's and tell Centre or Radar what altitude I am holding.

If I didnt get an IFR clearance, I'd stay VFR till I get the IFR pick up clearance.

Is that okay ?

D6

[chief wiggum]

And what if your company policy is "NO IFR PICK-UP" ?

Maybe then just HOLD 7000' till cleared ?

[DeltaSix]

Hi Chief Wiggum,

Then I would fly IFR OCTA till I get climb clearance to FLs. I would request IFR traffic from Centre or Radar on the level I am holding ( which might be 7,000 if I am flying the 000-179 degree heading ) and if it is above LSA or MSA and wait on their clearance.

In regards to the words "pending clerance" maybe the guy has experienced before that as part of his departure report he has indicated that he would be cruising at ex. FL230 and didnt get the clearance before he has reached 8,500. That happened to me out of Cowra. I told them "climbing to 10,000" on my departure report and did not get clearance till I levelled off at 8,000.

Maybe he was expecting delay on the FL clearance. So, to warn them just in case that it is I am levelling off at this altitude till you clear me for FL230 for example.

Just putting my two cents in ;)


d6

[Roger Standby]

If you are planned to FL180 and you say on departure "on climb to A080 (base of cta is A085)", then my response would be, "no reported IFR traffic @ ammended A080. Area QNH 1013".

To anyone looking for an IFR pickup, expect "standby" whilst the controller dives for the procedures card that hasn't been used we trained for it! I reckon I haven't heard of more than a handful of cases where IFR pickup has been asked for and believe it or not, most requests have been denied because the procedure wasn't appropriate eg. wrong class of airspace.

Cheers,

R_S.