A350

[flyingbosshog]

SO my question is after all of the money that AIrbus is going to loose on the A380 project, How in the world are they going to find the money to launch the A350, which itself seems like an A330 with more composite, and a different engine???

[Toulouse]

Good to see you have powers for seeing into the future.

Lets hope you're wrong for all the people who depend on Airbus for making a living (including all the people working for companies involved in the US, and other places around the world).

[Skinny Dog]

Boeing have for a long time been accused of tarting up old designs to try and prolong the life of its models.
This is exactly what Airbus is doing with the A350, a tarted up old design which the market seems to be overlooking.

[Dutchie]

The 787 has quite a resemblance to the Raytheon premier 1, just look up the history of that aircraft and the status now...... Looks like a great concept but after years of hardly using composites trying to build an aircraft for a majority out of the stuff is scary.In this case Airbus is smarter with the step by step approach. Cost less to develop, risk is lower and is less hyped. Boeing is under so much pressure to perform that they are almost giving them away.. :ooh:

[panda-k-bear]

When Boeing offered my company 787s at the same price as a 767, it looks like they're just trying to buy the market.

[Re-Heat]

What happened to that other A330 derivative that sold two copies - was it the -300 or -200Lite - that was actually built and certified but never went into full production?

Surely the A350 is exactly the same idea as that, but a bit lighter?

[Bmused55]

panda-k-bear: When Boeing offered my company 787s at the same price as a 767, it looks like they're just trying to buy the market.

Yeah, just like Airbus did/does with the A320 and A330.

NWA got their A330s for 70 to 80m USD a peice.

easyjet reportedly got their a319s at 40% discount and Air Berlin the same.

Air Canada almsot did not pay for their A340s... Airbus literaly gifted them.

Works both ways mate.

[panda-k-bear]

Yes, "mate", it does. You're right. But remind me - how many A319s did easyJet buy? How many A320s did Air Berlin buy? And how many 787s did Air Canada buy? There's a difference in scale there. If you have 100 or so aircraft, all identical, then yes, you'll get a hell of a discount because a) the quantity is massive and b) they're all carbo copies.

I never said that it was wrong - all I did was point out that one of the reasons for the initial early success of the 787 is the pricing policy. It remains to be seen what will happen later on down the line when these airlines are locked in by their 10s and 15s but need a second tranche. They might live to rue the day they ever got in to the 787. If the A350 ends up cancelled for whatever reason, that would only exacerbate the situation!

[Trislander]

The A350 is a good idea - similar in capability to the 787 but has commonality with the rest of the Airbus fleet. Doesn't really need a lot of funding in comparison.

This looks like Boeing's last chance, they still have reasonable markets for the 737/777, but for how much longer?

For those A380-sceptics, wait 5-10 years and see what happens, everyone knows the aviation industry isn't one that is easily predicted. There are a lot of knackered old 747's out there waiting to be replaced - will the operators go for a then vamped-up 55-year old design from Boeing, or move with the times with innovative Airbus??

[Bmused55]

The A350 is a good idea - similar in capability to the 787 but has commonality with the rest of the Airbus fleet. Doesn't really need a lot of funding in comparison.

HA HA HA HA HA HA!!! thanks for the good laugh!

The A350 is a no hoper, bigger and heavier than the 787, it is physically impossible to make it be able to compete with the 787.

It'll keep Emirates and Qatar happy but thats about it.

The cockpit commonality is all it has going for it and heres some news for ya bud... Cockpit commonality is NOT a top priority when ordering aircraft.

Performance and Maintenance are the key issues as is the price tag. Although in recent years the price of a plane has overrulled the performance and MX needs.
NWA,EZY and Air Berlin for example.

Airbus will sell the A350... they can sell ICE to eskimos... but the plane is a mere shadow of the 787.

[panda-k-bear]

Interesting. Has it, perhaps, occurred to you that Airbus is ACTUALLY gunning for the 777-200 and not the 787 with the A350? the bigger A350 is similar in size to the 777-200.

One other minor detail - if you have more seats (which does ususally mean a heavier aircraft), you can divide the operating costs over that higher number of seats.

Tell us Bmused, what is your breakdown of the operating cost per seat of the 787-8 and -9, the 777-200 and the A350-800 and -900? Please, present those figures here and let's see some justification for your "no-hoper" statement.

And while you are at it, why not present us with a breakdown of OEW per seat as well. Then we'll see how they really match up.

And by the way, another detail, but the A350-800 will fly further than the 787-8 by all accounts, so let's assume range neutral, shall we?

[Flyer 719]

Is there any "artists impressions" of the A350 around?

[flyingbosshog]

There was one that I saw along time ago that looked like and A330 with the engines of and A340-500.... I think that this plane is in the grave... Airbus needs to sell something like 300 A380s before they can even begin to think about turning a proit on them...... No chance..

[Bmused55]

One other minor detail - if you have more seats (which does ususally mean a heavier aircraft), you can divide the operating costs over that higher number of seats.

Uh huh, fine theory... but what if the majority of 767/A330 operators don't want that extra seat capacity?
More seats = Heavier Aircraft = More seats to be filled before break even.
Bang goes the A350's advantage.

The A350 was directed at EK. Airbus are so blinded by the prestige of have EK on their order books they've gone for a "more seats and more range" approach and have completely missed the whole point to the 787:
An A300/767/A330 replacement in one platform.

As for breakdowns... its simple

787 = Composite
A350 = Metal
Nuff said on that.

[Trislander]

Perhaps, flyingbosshog, you would like to tell us how many 787's Boeing will have to sell in order to break even? Airbus are selling so many of their other aircraft family types anyway, I don't think it will be an issue IF it is not as successful as everyone hopes. Look at the stats, they sell a hell of a lot more aircraft than Boeing.

:rolleyes: