pre landing checklists

[thereceiver2004]

hi all

Our CFI who has taken it upon himself to re-write the aeroplane checklists and add his own quirks and checks, now i know the danger of re-writing checklists so not dwell on that, but i just wondered peoples opinions of pre landing checks...

when i was taught to fly and friends of mine taugt to fly all the way through ppl to cpl/ir level all different schools, we all used the same pre landing checks

B U M F I C H H or variations around this theme.. why.. because it is easy to remember the nemonic.

however my cfi now has a pre landing checklist thus :

brakes
mixtures
engine Ts and Ps
carb heat on/off
hatches
harness
instruments
fuel

and as he is also the examiner he wants it taught this way from the checklist.. NOT BUMFICHH or any other nemonic BUT as above, all the students are saying they cannot remember these and i am inclined to agree, but the cfi says use the checklist for the checks, ok but getting the checklist out on the downwind part of the circuit, finding the page and then following it through in my humble opinion is not the safest way.

another check..

engine failure at altitude

fuel - on
MAYDAY CALL immediately
try to restart the engine
if no restart force land
give pax brief
electrics off

now i know depends on height but surely it would be best to

get best glide speed first and foremost
find a field to land and plan your circuit
try to restart the engine
if not then may day call
brief passengers
then SECURE the dead engine
then force land

being the examiner aswell it is known that if students go fro test using checklists other than line for line from the checklist they will fail. :-(

just wondered of peoples opionions, i know have a structured common way of teaching in a school will benefit all those learning, but not being open to suggestions and slight changes of the standards set in my opinion is wrong, even if the suggestions are stupid, they should at least be heard.

just my 5 mins of moaning..

[NotamCheck]

I would have thought if the student used his own version of checklist and it included ALL the parts of the CFIs requirements then the flight is still safe and they should not fail a test.

Just one point, why is hatches checked? The CAA have for years reported that an open door has been the cause of distraction and hence many crashes whilst trying to close it in flight. I was taught if the door opens during flight ignore it (and the noise) and do not attempt to close it (almost impossible on PA28s top latches) and land as normal.

[DFC]

Basically, the pre-landing checklist should include those essential items that will be a problem if they are forgotten.Example - make sure the Gear is down on a retractable.

Thus for a simple fixed gear single engine aircraft the landing checklist may be;

Brakes Of
Carb Heat Check
Fuel sufucuent, Pump on
Harness Secure

Checking the engine Ts and Ps should be done on a regular scan and not just when required by a check list.

What seems to be forgotten these days in small simple aircraft is that a checklist is for checking what has been done. There is a big difference between a procedure (list of actions) and a checklist (list of checks that confirm completion (or not) of the procedure).

If the checklist is short and to the point, it can be placed on the pannel in front of the pilot!

As for engine failure in a single;

Fly the aircraft and find a field then if time available try a re-start.

Regards,

DFC

[Genghis the Engineer]

A few thoughts here, but since I'm not an FI by all means jump on me anybody better qualified:-

(1) From a checklist is no bad thing, particularly from PPLs who rarely gain enough currency to be able to sensibly do checks from memory. But the checklist then needs to be useable.

(2) Whether you do checks from a list or from memory, the order has to make some kind of sense. The BUMFICH approach has a big advantage of being easily memorised and standardised - you can jump into most light aircraft and use it. An alternative approach is to do things in a particular cockpit order (left to right most usually - this is common in military aircraft for example). It's hard to see that the proposed checklist does either.

(3) Am I alone in checking the wind during my landing checks?

(4) Undercarriage?

(5) Will all your students only fly from that airfield, in it's club aeroplanes? Nope - so do them a favour and teach them the way everybody else does it !

(6) Initial emergency actions from the checklist in a single pilot aeroplane? I do hope not.

G

[TheOddOne]

Sounds quite disturbing to me! Is this in the UK?

15 years ago I did the training (& passed the test) for the then CAA CPL GFT. The airborne checks were identical to the ones used for PPL training at the time (only more precision required). I do a 6-month check still to retain currency on our PA28. I use the same checks with different instructors that I was taught over 23 years ago and they seem quite satisfactory to all of them.

My personal opinion is that it is almost insane NOT to have, as the FIRST action in a single, upon an engine failure, the selection of the best glide speed. I was taught, for the PA28, to rack the trim back 4 turns; this would give a trimmed speed of about 75kt if you were flying trimmed out in the cruise. This significantly increases your ability to find the best place to land (or crash and survive). Then pick a field (or series of fields if high enough). Then find out if there's a simple cause for the failure (work from left to right, fuel, mags, throttle, mixture, carb heat). If no rectification possible, make MAYDAY call, all the while flying the a/c to make good an approach to mid-point of your chosen field. Be prepared to pick a different one. On short final, mixture ICO, electrics off, full flap to bring aiming point to beginning of field, fly it as far into the crash as possible. Brief pax again to brace.

One old CFI told me that he expected us to be good enough with a forced landing that the a/c would be capable of being flown out of the field again once the problem was fixed, but most have said 'you're flying to save your life. If you walk away from it, you made an excellent forced landing'.

All of this was good enough for a CAA CPL examiner. Perhaps we're getting a partial story here, but this CFI does rather seem to be the only soldier in the army who is in step. I'd like to see more justification for missing big chunks out and changing things around.

As a CFI and examiner, I assume they would have to satisfy the CAA that what they were teaching was in accordance with current practices.

It all seems very strange...

Cheers,
The Odd One

[NotamCheck]

Genghis

1&2) Agreed, the new checklist the CFI has proposed goes against the popular PPL training books. It sounds like the CFI doesn't want to learn the standard way but expects everyone else to adopt his.

3) I was also taught to look at windsock on finals and if RT is present use that to decide crosswind limits and hence go around.

4&5) I use BUMPFFLITCH that covers undercarriage, Prop, landing light too. I was taught this when flying C152!!! Used it through to CPL and FI with no problems.

6) Agreed. Works the other way round too. Use checklist first for all non-emergency problems like electrical failure(not fire) or stuck undercarriage.

Also correct checks for an engine failure should include reference to the checklist IF YOU HAVE TIME, to make sure you have not missed anything during the panic.

[Irish Steve]

No one has mentioned the other problem with paper or similar check lists in the circuit. It's congested in some cases, so the plan is to be looking out of the window as much as possible to make damn sure that there's not about to be an encounter of the wrong kind. Messing about finding the right page on a check list, then going head in the office to read it is distracting from the main requirement when close to an airfield and or other aircraft.

To me, the best downwind check is the one that covers all the options, so undercarriage, mixture props fuel and other issues need to be in there, that way, when a new maybe faster multi engine type is being flown, the basic check is identical, and still covers all the bases.

If the CFi has a problem with that, then maybe someone needs to (gently) try and find out what the CFI's problem is.

[spitfire747]

correct me if i am wrong, it probably depends on the category the aeroplanes are used in, but doesn't a re-written checklist need to be approved by the authorities (CAA) and the aeroplane manufacturers ?

Spit

[Say again s l o w l y]

Hmm sounds like this CFI has got his head stuck somewhere unpleasant!

Pre-landing checks (BUMFICHHL or what ever you use) should be from memory, in my eyes, the only time a check list should be used is when the a/c is stationary. Whenever it's moving, checks should be from memory. Let's face it, there aren't that many to learn!!

Most check lists that a student will use have disclaimers written on them stating that they aren't the original list. That is in the POH and should be taken as the bible, rather than anything written by a cranky CFI, that won't have been looked at by the manufacturers or the CAA.

Genghis, as usual you are absolutely correct in thinking about wind direction whilst in the cct. Hopefully, you always have an appreciation of where it's coming from, but it doesn't hurt to reaffirm it whilst getting ready for an approach.

[Send Clowns]

I'm inclined to agree strongly with you, receiver. Don't let your students do the CFI's checks for engine failure. If they have a low failure it's 50/50 that they'll kill themselves without making any viable landing attempt. One of my old helicopter instructors "I'd rather answer the phone and hear 'Mayday, Mayday, Mayday, engine failure, I put it in a field and I'm in the Red Lion' than a perfect PAHFAHTAPNIA [may have mistaken the mnemonic, was a while back, but something like that] mayday call on the radio leading to smopking hole in the field".

Mayday call is not an early priority!

DFC makes a good point; a checklist was never meant just to be followed, but to check an action is done, sometimes before sometimes as it is read (not just for simple aircraft, DFC - was taught this on my MCC for Trijet prestart checks!). I make this point to my students after start, when I make them set 1000-1200 RPM, check oil pressure and check starter warning before looking at the checklist, which immediately confirms these actions. So if you do use the checklist, do the actions then hold the list up in front (keep eyes up for lookout!) and read quickly down it to confirm.

An alternative suggestion courtesy of Cessna if he insists on a complicated set of checks - stick a notice on the control console. Notice that C-150s have a brief pre-landing checklist (not one I have ever used) down low, I think by the yoke. Then at least there is no scrabble for the list.

I was originally (C-152) taught a pattern rather than BUMPFLICHH I now use, but Genghis is right, some mnemonic is essential. IMHO all airborne checks should be from memory on a single-crew aircraft, although if you have autopilot on it can be backed up from cards. The military have all checks in single-crew aircraft from memory, although interestingly the only ones not so on a multi-crew are prelanders.

[Big Pistons Forever]

I am hard over about not reading any checklists in the circuit. At any kind of busy airport the NUMBER ONE hazard IMO is a mid air. Those are almost always fatal unlike most other landing accidents which bend metal and bruise ego's but usually do not kill. Therefore it is essential to keep your head up. As for what checks to use I am partial to the big circle. (i.e. in a Cessna start at the fuel selector and work your way around the panel in a big counter clockwise circle). But hey as long as the killer items get done does it really matter:confused:

As for the Engine failure situation I am surprised that no one has mentioned the carb heat. If it is winter and the engine starts to fade :eek: than it is probably carb ice. If you don't get it on quick there will not be any heat left to mel the carb ice :uhoh: Therefore I always teach carb heat on as the first action with a power loss. After that its

1) Trim for the glide. For most airplanes just trim full nose up and you will be close

2) pick a field and decide your approach flight track

3) Do all the other Fed mandated bumph if it won't detract from item number 2

BTW the flying club I used to teach required a annual proficency check. I always did a forced approach exercise and I NEVER had a PPL do the first one, that would not have resulted in severe injury or death for everyone in the airplane:hmm: , including I am sad to report some of my x PPL students. Therefore I tell anyone who listens to practice this exercise regularly.

[DFC]

Re cheking the wind as part of the Pre-Landing Checklist.

IMHO, the time to check the wind is when overhead or before joining the circuit. After all, it is very dangerous to join for runway 18 right hand circuit only to discover when at the downwind position for that runway that the wind favours runway runway 36 left hand circuit and you are head to head with a pilot in the circuit for the correct runway.

It is true also to say that the wind should be confirmed when on final approach...........the pilots most at fault here are often the ones at big airports when they get a wind check which goes in one ear and out the other and then fly down final ignoring the wildly flapping windsock trying to figure out why it is such a bumpy ride!

The same goes for checking the altimeter - I won't go down the QFE debate road - but sufuce to say if you are a QFE user, it is too late to check the setting when downwind since 800ft QNH at a 700ft elevation aerodrome is a tad low and setting QFE followed by a climb back up into the downwind is downright dangerous.

So the landing check needs to simply be the killer items but we also need checks that are done before joining the circuit which will ensure that the correct runway is selected and the altimeter is set.

One of the most stupid checks I hear from both Students, PPLs, some CPLs and some Instructors is the "Fuel Sufucuent for Go-arround.

My question to that one is always........if you only have enough fuel to go-arround what are you going to do when you go-around and the engine stops at the moment one reaches 800ft.

Far better to say fuel suficient and have a realsitic figure including a final reserve of some sort that you will require to be in the tank when the aircraft finally lands.

There is a guy who writes on Avweb who makes some good points about checklists.

He uses CIGAR for the pre-takeoff check

Controls
Instruments
Gas
Airframe
Run-up

very simple. Believe it or not the following is just as simple and very well designed but more long winded

Trim, Throttle Friction, Carb Heat, Mixture, Fuel, Pitch, Flaps, Flying Controls, Oil Ts and Ps, Hatches, Harness, Instruments, Lookout.

Good checklists do not have to be Nemonics they just have to be simply remembered and both of the above are simply remembered.

Regards,

DFC

[Genghis the Engineer]

Just as an aside, since I fly microlights as much as I do Group A , I'm rather fond of the usual Microlight mnemonics, which work just as well in a simple light aircraft:-

Pre start - STAIP (Secure / Throttle closed / Area Clear / Ignition on / Pull)

Take-off - CHIFTWAP (Controls full and free + correct sense, Choke off (mixture rich!) / Harnesses and Hatches / Instruments, Ignition (run-up) / Trimmer(s) / Wind / Approach Clear / Power check.

Landing - that's FAWNTH (Fuel sufficient for go-around / approach clear / wind appropriate for runway / Nosewheel straight / Harnesses secure.

(The nosewheel bit is vitally important for weightshift aircraft otherwise you tend to pull it off at touchdown, but doesn't normally transfer to anything with a rudder).


(FEEL and HASELL checks are done pretty much the same as light aircraft).
G

[lscajp]

Hi my 2 penny's worth - albeit military but hey here goes.

Not sure about the "BUMFICHHL" but our pre-landing cx are:-

RPM - High
Mixture - Set BPM (normally already set)
Alternate Air - Cold

Speed - Below max -> flaps
Fuel - Aux pump on
Fuel - Contents checked and balanced
Fuel - selector as required
T's and P's - within limits
CO detector - not discoloured

Canopy - Secure
Harness - Checked
Parking Brake - Released

Finals:-

Speed - Next stage of flap
Brakes - toes clear

:ok:

[shortstripper]

As this seems to have turned into a mnemonics line up, here's mine for the kind of simple VFR types I fly.

As a glider pilot in a previous life, I always think ...

CB SIFT CB and treat the engine as a separate entity with FFFMMP

C = Controls (Full, free and working in correct sense)
B = Ballast (W&B)
S = Straps (Harness)
I = Instruments
F = Flaps
T = Trim
C = Canopy
B = Brakes

That pretty well covers the airframe so on to the engine with (poetic licence here) ...

F = Fuel
F = Frottle
F = Friction
M = Mixture
M = Mags
P = Primer

In the air the usual FREDA checks with downwind check simply hatches and harness. I've always figured that fuel, T's&P's, mixture ect ect are all naturally monitored so I don't actually recite them as such. The same applies to keeping feet off brakes, carb heat decisions, flaps ect as there are so many different circumstances and a standard checklist drill may not always be correct at the time.

SS

[-IBLB-]

As far as the pre-landing checklist goes, I've always tought my students to use BUMPFICH, or something to that extend, simply for the above mentioned reason, getting close to a (busy) airport, is not the time to fuble around with paper, and look inside the cockpit.
I would not like to change this to something difficult to remember, or it has to be a very good reason to do so.


As for the engine failure drill; i've tought my students

-Best glide speed
-Find a Field
-Restart procedure
-Radio / SSR (t.p)
-Brief pax
-Securing
-land

Reason: Best glide speed gives you more time, you will need a field to land in maybe, get that before the restart, in case the restart doesn't work, Radiocall is optional/time permitting. Doing the radiocall in the beginning i think is just a waste of (valuable) time. Some planes are different then others, with the Cessnas you can wait till the last moment with the masterswitch, in case you want to select flaps for instance.

When time permitting, i do get them to get the checklist out, to make sure they haven't forgotten anything.

Note: As far as the restart goes, i teach my guys and girls to check the mags, but NOT to switch it to "start", personally i cannot think of a possibility when that might actually do anything, besides brake the startermotor.



-IBLB-

[P.Pilcher]

Well - it sounds like another new examiner/CFI full of his position and lacking a little common sense to me.

If you are steaming around at 2000 feet in your light single and the engine quits, the First thing to do is to establish best glide speed, the second is to determine the wind direction and turn downwind and the third is to find a field and plan your descent into it. If you are good, you should be trying to do all these things at once! Once you are following your planned approach, you can get on with checking the engine, making mayday calls and preparing for the landing itself. I always insist the doors are jammed open as, in the event of a hard landing the fuselage may well distort which could jam the doors closed.

Many years ago I was taking GFT 4 - circuits at night in a twin for my CPL. I was doing it at Oxford on a Twin Comm (if anybody remembers those) and was having difficulty remembering the Oxford pre landing check list which I think started with "landing light on" I managed the first two circuits O.K. then something happened which necessitated me working harder and my mind went blank with regard to the prescribed pre landing checks. By this time I was half way downwind and realised that if I didn't do something I would definitely blow a test fee and an hour for a twin at Oxford's prices. I called out "Brakes: off, Undercarriage: selected down - green light showing" e.t.c. e.t.c.

In the debrief my CAAFU examiner enquired why I started by putting my landing light on at the start of my downwind checks for the first two circuits. I told him. "Oh I cant really comment about that" said he handing me my pass certificate.

If "BUMPFF" was good enough for CAAFU ...............

P.P.

[-IBLB-]

I know it is a little off topic, but just out of curiosity, reply on previous message.

Why turn downwind right after an engine failure? Getting a greater groundspeed can help you there is a nice field downwing, but what if there are no fields downwind? What if there is a nice looking field straight-ahead? And remember if you are downwind, you will need to have enough height to turn back into the wind if at all possible.

For all; Is turning downwind before finding a field a std practice among alot of instuctors?

-IBLB-

[Genghis the Engineer]

If you are after more time, technically you want min.sink speed, not best glide - which gives you more range.

Okay, on many types they are very close together, but not all.

G

[-IBLB-]

you're absolutely right, the only problem is that in the manuals a minimum sink speed is usually not given.


-IBLB-

[idle stop]

1.
Spit 747:
Looks like nobody responded, but yes, IMHO the checklist must include the checks required in the Flight Manual, although formal approval of the Manufacturer is not required. The Regulator's approval will be required if the aircraft is being operated for the purpose of an AOC, in which case the checks must also be laid out in the company Ops Manual.

2.
I don't like inappropriate checks. Calling 'Undercarriage' in a fixed gear a/c , meaningless, may lead to the old HF problem when flying a retractable, for example.

[Cutoff]

What about PUFAL, these are landing checks, all the others posted have been downwind checks as far as I can see.

[zehutiman]

There's always the new guy try to reinvent the wheel.

Thereceiver, here's what you need to tell the new guy:

First and foremost, a checklist is not a "To do List." In other words, the proper technique for using the checklist is not to individually go, one by one, down the list, performing each task. Tell him, "repeat after me: the checklist is a checklist, not a to-do-list."

Second, what is the purpose of a checklist? Simply, to ensure certain procedures are performed. Who cares how they are done? Now, it certainly is logical to learn a "flow" to performing each item on the checklist, for instance, starting an after-landing checklist might be started from the top of the instrument panel and flow down to the console, but what really matters, is that the procedures are performed and then checked that they WERE (past tense) performed via the checklist.

When I flew small airplanes by myself, I seem to recall it was difficult to read a printed checklist while flying. Hence, the memory aids. Obviously, the simpler the memory aid, the better. So, for this guy to invent a new system which has no rhyme or reason, making the memory aid no longer a memory aid, makes no sense.

It would only make sense if he's training folks who are ultimately going to be flying bigger airplanes and he wants to acquaint them with "flows," and the actual use of checklists. But even if that's the case, for primary training, I would think it would hinder training at such an early stage in a pilot's development.

[hugh flung_dung]

We should always be open to new ideas but ...
If someone suggests something radical my first response is "why?" - if the answer is good the next question is "what about everyone else?". Sometimes a standard that's not optimum is better than a perfect but unique way of doing things. If this guy has a good reason for changing things he needs to negotiate with the rest of the training community and convince them that it's worth changing and then implement the changes - if he's right it should be relatively easy.

Unfortunately there's little doubt that, in this case, he's wrong but at least his peers will tell him the idea is a load of cr*p rather then his employees.

[P.Pilcher]

Yes - I agree that calling out "undercarriage" then something like "down and welded" is a bit daft if you only fly, or ever intend to fly, fixed gear singles, but as I explained above the old "BUMFF checklist, engraved on my heart for over 1000 hours instructing at the time saved my bacon under CAAFU's beady eye, indeed those pre-landing checks were all I needed downwind when flying the Twin Otter as I did single crew many years later.

P.P.

[Craggenmore]

Good thread.

Oxford Aviation's CPL Landing Cx list is simply...

1. Brakes (on/off & parking off)
2. Flaps (as required)
3. Fuel (Mix rich, pump on, quantity sufficient)

I guess the idea being that your head should be out of the cockpit during this crucial stage.

The more detailed and time comsuming cx's are carried out in the Approach Cx's before the circuit

Anyone agree?

Craggs

[DFC]

Anyone agree?

Absolutely.

Just like the organisations who call the checks "downwind checks" - what if you are joining base or doing a straight in approach........are they forgotten if there is no downwind call to remind them - unfortunately yes!

Regards,

DFC

[P.Pilcher]

What a refreshing post! I am so glad Oxford have come up with such a sensibly short list. As I posted above, I spent ages trying to learn their old infinitely long set of downwind checks years ago, only to suffer memory failure when it was supposed to matter most! Basically, all you need to do is to make sure that your undercarriage is down, your brakes are off but working and your engine(s) are set up for a possible go-around.
I'm sure I've forgotton a thing or two, but this is the bottom line, and if you always fly fixed gear machines, you can forget the first one as well.

P.P.

(There are two kinds of pilots - those who have landed with their gear up, and those that haven't - yet!)

[A37575]

Why check brakes on/off before landing. if you have an unknown hydraulic leak from a brake, by depressing the brake pedal you will just as likely squirt the remaining fluid overboard.

Mnemonics are fun but a bit infantile really. Have you ever heard of 747 crews using mnemonics? I doubt it.

That said, I loved the downwind check mnemonic that one instructor taught me and which I learned by heart which is probably a good thing. It went "My Friend Fred Had Hairy Balls". You can make want you want of that but suggest Mixture rich - Fuel on - Flaps as requ - Hatches - and I forget what Balls stood for - Oh I remember now - it was Brakes. In addition he taught me the PPUFF checks on final which were Pitch fine - Power Poles -Undercarriage - Flaps and Feathered friends. And this idiot was dead serious...

[Say again s l o w l y]

A 747 crew (or any other multi pilot crew) won't use mnemonics since they have a non flying pilot to read the relevant checklist.
Certain emergencies are done from memory but I can't remember ever using a mnemonic to help remember those drills.

Checking the brakes is an important check, if you try the pedals and they go to the floor, then you know you haven't got any, certainly something I'd like to know before going into a short strip with big hedge at the end. Squirting brake fluid out by checking it doesn't make the brakes any less effective, if the fluid can get out, then the brakes are knackered. Time to find a nice long runway.

[DFC]

Have you ever heard of 747 crews using mnemonics?

Lots!

NITS and DODAR spring to mind!

Oh and - Time Turn Track Talk Think - some things don't change with weight! :)

One must remember that mnemonics are an aid to assist a pilot in completing a checklist. They should not be treated as essential pre-requisites for checklists that are completed from memory.

Regards,

DFC

[Flik Roll]

lscajp;
I hope you really meant to put Ts and Ps after alt air?! :}

It makes so much sense to learn the whole checklist. Less time in the cockpit looking at paper and more understanding about what's going on around.

Emergency initial actions should all be from memory - aviate first!

[hoey5o]

Christ, things get made complicated with light aircraft !

On a B757 (and most other airliners) there are 4 items on the landing cx list;
speedebrake
gear
flaps
cabin

Thats just under half the checks for many people flying C152's and still less than landing a bloody microlight !!!!!!!!

T's and P's, approach clear, check wind etc. Are you serious ? Thats all called airmanship !!!
God help some of you if the check list ever fails.

Written CX lists should never be seen when off the ground unless your multi crew or something stopped working.

[unfazed]

Hoey50 good point !

Airbus checklist can easily fit on one laminated side of A4 sheet with main emergeny actions on the reverse

Why do we see "booklets" of C152, pa28 CHECKS which go on and on for ever? (left sock red - check, right sock green - check)

Why do students still get charged for checklists when there are some great single sheet a5 size checklists available on the web ?checkout the PA28 checklist at www.dauntless-soft.com

Why do some die hards insist that their overly complex and not easily learned checks are better than the aircraft manufacturers concise checks (try using the PA28 checks suggested by Piper and posted inside the cockpit which work and yes you can get airborne in a couple of minutes without falling back to earth.

And finally - why do many students spend 10 minutes with heads buried in the checks totally oblivious to the outside world (at an average cost of approx = £20)

Keep It Simple works for me ! if it;s important memorise it !!!

Look at Bumfitch (Brakes - "of course they are off on a single who would put them on after takeoff !", brake pressure ? maybe but critical ? Only if landing on a postage stamp runway.

Undercarriage VALID

Mix = VALID

Fuel = VALID

Instruments = should have been checked via FREDA in cruise and why not stick with QNH

t&p'S = Who cares at this point, we are landing anyway !

Carb Ht - VALID (But see Piper pre landing checklist NOT needed)

Harnesses and hatches = does anybody take them off ?wander around the cabin of the PA28 ? open them ? unlikely !

So boiling it down to absolute "essentials" for a SE FIXED GEAR not IMC/IFR

Fuel - (Mixture and pump)
Carb Heat
Prop ?

Anyone know "GLUMPS" GAS, Landing light, undercarriage, mixture, power/prop, seatbelts.

Or final pre takeoff (after power checks) essentials= "CIGAR" - Controls free and correct, Instruments set, Gas (mix rich pump on , correct tank, ATTITUDE (Flaps and trim), Radios (Com, transponder and Nav set). Takes about 2 minutes !

Now I know its bound to ruffle a few feathers and there is a lot of debate possible on the above but hey !! that's what it is all about !!!

[Onan the Clumsy]

Here's the mnemonic checklist I use...

MVLQKFEJBVPKLMWRMWKGNBLKBWRAMGBLKLKBQWRLBLNLRWGBKR

It's a bit of a mouthful and took me eight years to memorise correctly, but it covers just about everything in the C120 I fly on a regular basis. :rolleyes: The A is for Anual btw

Seriously now. You're talking about primary students and simple single pilot aircraft here right? Give them a crutch to rely on, but don't over complicate things, or they'll start to focus on whether they have suficient fuel to complete the landing :confused: instead of monitoring their airspeed.

A 747 crew (or any other multi pilot crew) won't use mnemonics since they have a non flying pilot to read the relevant checklist. Not the point really. They use flows and come back around with a checklist to ...check the flow was done correctly. That's what you should be striving for really: Flow Patterns.

Think about it. How do you drive your car? Do you say "Headlights on"? No. If it's dark, you just put them on. Do you recite "Mirror, Signal, Brakes"? No. You do it because it's instinctual, you're driving. You should have a similar goal with flying - Aviating.

I understand that this is an instructor forum, so it tends to deal with teaching primary students, and checklists are fine, even necessary for them, but they need to be simple, worthwhile, meaningful and put into context.



Other points: Yes to Min sink vs Best Glide. No point gliding for miles if you don't know where to (we're a little spoiled here in Texas). Better still would be to "fly the airplane".

GUMPS must be an American thing then. I'm surprised it only got mentioned once here.