RN logo's on Flying Kit

[rafloo]

Any truth in the rumour the RN are attempting to introduce an RN badge on yr flying kit? I've also heard nasty's about my matelot mates having to wear Navy Blue flying ovvies....???

[spankymonkey]

If it's an attempt to differentiate dark blue types from grey/blue types, I'd would have thought that the presence of gold on ones shoulder rather than a bar code does the trick.

[Si Clik]

This is happening - I bought them for you (one each).

Joe Public need to be educated that the RN fly aircraft, green overalls with faded yellow tabs DO NOT send the message.

Last year I stood in front of a Lynx at Farnborough with ROYAL NAVY written down the side with a Recruiting stand in Naval rig (balck trousers and white shirt) and was asked what it was like in the RAF at least twice.

By the way there is a green and black one probably inbound for the junglies.

So far a positive reception with even other groups asking for them.

And they were not expensive.

:hmm:

[L1A2 discharged]

Hope you didn't buy too many ....

The end of individual services is in sight :uhoh:

[The Helpful Stacker]

Hope you didn't buy too many ....

The end of individual services is in sight



Tri-service nursing uniform will soon be upon us, tri-service PTI kit is already here, the purple is getting everywhere now days.....

:ugh:

[Jucky]

It's a great idea. Look forward to wearing one. Shame about the velcro shortage though!:hmm:

[Training Risky]

Top stuff.

This sounds like a fantastic use of the limited funds HM Treasury gives us, I sincerely hope some Navy chumpster at Fleet/MoD got a star for thinking of this one.

This reminds me of the really useful RAF bags that are too small to hold more than some PT kit and a squash racket..... (I cut the crest off mine and use it for laundry).....

Or the 'Royal Air Force' CS95 badges.....

Or the new No1 uniforms for ranks below WO.....

Or tit enhancement jobs for men.....

Or EO trg....Doctrine....U need 2 know.....etc, etc....




PS: Any serviceman who can't tell a member of the RN from the RAF by looking at the rank slides shouldn't be in the mob....

..... and member of Joe Public who can't do likewise, clearly has no interest in the military.... So who gives a cr@p what they say at airshows?

[Si Clik]

TR,

You clearly have no idea about funding, PR or recruiting or about Service ethos.

FYI this cost peanuts and probably less than one showing of the RAF, RN or Army ad on TV.

If you think recruiting is straightforward you clearly live in cloud cuckoo land.

:hmm:

[Spanish Waltzer]

IIRC most of the RN studes going through EFT/JEFTS wore white ensigns on their flying kit and there was a green/black variant for those that were wannabie junglies. Is this what someone in admiralty arch has now decided to make policy and be promoted for or is this a 'new' RN logo?

[Tourist]

How hard can recruiting for the finest job in the world be?
Bin all the tree huggy, humanitarian aid, peacekeeping TV adverts and show lots of stuff being blown up, harriers/jsf flying low in a hooligan manner, helo's flying lower and in an even more unjustifiably hooliganly manner, more stuff being blown up, people skydiving, windsurfing etc, more explosions, couple of bits of SAR god storm video, lots of people looking dashing at the summer ball with cute fluff on their arm, big finale of more sh1t being blown up.
Recruitment rockets, Tourist gets a Herbert Lott, everybody happy, job done.:ok:

[Si Clik]

Tourist.

FYI very hard at the moment.

Why? Because no-one can discriminate bewteen the RAF and anyone else in growbags. The assumption is always if its airborne it must be RAF.

SW

No 'new' logo at all. The ensign means nothing to Joe Public.

I did say it was free didn't I.

:hmm:

[The Helpful Stacker]

The assumption is always if its airborne it must be RAF.

If it flies off a through deck cruiser it usually is these days.







I'll get my coat.

[jEtGuiDeR]

Stacker

Make sure you pay for it and don't just write it off!! :E

[The Helpful Stacker]

Stacker

Make sure you pay for it and don't just write it off!!

I'd never dream of misappropriating an item of service supplied kit.



;)

[FEBA]

Presumably the Army will now wear camouflaged grow bags. Not sure what all the fuss is about here. Maybe someone can explain why the airforce wear OG, whats wrong with the sexy red one's that the Arrows wear :yuk: ?

[rafloo]

So come on Si Clik.....whats the full deal.... where are these Blue Flying ovies and where are the badges?

[vecvechookattack]

Got my badge today and I have to say its going straight into the bin....
I wear Green ovvies with a RN squadron badge on my right shoulder and 2 golden stripes on the Epaulettes.....those stripes mean I am in the Navy....I do not want, nor do I need a bloomin great target of a badge on my ovies in order to allow Mr badman a chance of taking out my left arm. I fly a massive helicopter which has an enormous RN sticker on its side. Sorry but mines in the bin along with 5 more from this office alone......

Hang on,....Ive a better idea....Im gonna flog it on E-Bay and give the proceeds to the Memorial.


However, I am willing to compromise. When the crabs get an RAF badge and the pongo's get an AAC badge...then I'll wear my RN badge

[BootFlap]

It says RAF in the middle of my wings, does that count?:ok:

[Si Clik]

VVCA,

Best you and your bag pals retreive since 556 will feature an
amend to mandate the wearing of the badge.

Personally, I think you are a short-sighted bunch who do not appreciate the full value of positive recruiting and RN image.

If you wish to be a crab then go and join since you appear to have NO esprit de corps.

MAKE NOTE TO SELF.

Call CO849 AM to query.

:*

[Grey Area]

V V H A

Look carefully at flying pongos and you will notice an eagle on the arm (can't remember which). Proudly worn I believe.

Si

Where's mine then, or do joint posts not qualify? ;)


GA

PS Does that mean I'm allowed to go shopping in my romper suit then?

[The Helpful Stacker]

Look carefully at flying pongos and you will notice an eagle on the arm (can't remember which). Proudly worn I believe.

On their right arm (if memory serves me correct). Unless they've despensed with the grow bag altogether. Clicky (http://www.wokka.freeserve.co.uk/eagles-flight/gaz-refuel.jpg)

[WE Branch Fanatic]

In the eyes of Joe Public/certain parts of the media....

If you fly/maintain/work with aircraft of any sort you must be RAF.
If you wear CS95, you must be Army.
If you go to sea...........not interested.

All to do with ignorance and apthy, I fear - something discussed here (http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=111156).

If the Fleet Air Arm enjoyed greater public awareness and understanding, would it have made a difference to the Sea Harrier (http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=98152) issue/debate?

[The Helpful Stacker]

If you fly/maintain/work with aircraft of any sort you must be RAF.

Or,

If you're in the RAF you must be a pilot.

:rolleyes:

[engineer(retard)]

"If the Fleet Air Arm enjoyed greater public awareness and understanding, would it have made a difference to the Sea Harrier issue/debate?"

WEBF

Lately, unless you have been cloned, you are most of the debate. Good way of making it a sticky though.

[The Helpful Stacker]

[Devils Advocate mode on]

With all this 'jointery' and with the old purple creeping in does the Army and the Navy still need its own aircraft fleets?

Wouldn't it be better for the Army to concentrate on the land, the RN to concentrate on sailing boats and the RAF with flying planes?

The RAF have been flying Harrier's off RN boats for a while now and the RAF have been flying squaddies around for a lot longer. I'm surprised in these days of severe belt tightening that more civil servants aren't asking these sorts of questions. I know its been mentioned before but that was when there was less purple

Of course I'm just playing Devils Advocate on this one.

[Safety_Helmut]

Never, ever, trust someone who feels the need to tell you, he's playing devil's advocate, it normally means he is being a c#ck. :ouch:

Safety_Helmut

[vecvechookattack]

Hey, thats a good idea....introduce a directive into the regs before anyone has any say in the matter and then issue a badge (which doesn't fit on a standard arm without disappearing up yr armpit) and then if anyone objects to the complete and utter waste of money, you can argue that "its in the regulations".

..complete tosh...as a tax payer I want my money back. If the RN are wasting my hard earned money on rubbish like this then I surrender.

Having just spent the last 6 months mulling over LEAN and trying to find ways to make this establishment more efficient, I then discover that its totally irrelevant as the money we have saved by streamling our core business has been squandered on a badge....

come on the Si Clik....whats next? Bright Blue flying boots? how about we embroider the White ensign on our visor covers...or perhaps we could paint the dome red, white and blue.

[Matrix Marauder]

VVHA, The Navy is clearly wasting tax payers money on YOU. If you do not understand the problems of recruiting then you need to get out more! Why should your opinion count? I did not know the military was a democracy!!
Got mine today ……. Not as bad as I guessed it would be, if it gets one new recruit they will pay for themselves, anyway it cant make us look any more stupid at airshows than our lousy fitting overalls already do!

[vecvechookattack]

Yep, That'll do the trick. I can see it now. As soon as a spotty nosed grad spots the badge wrapped around a blokes arm and disappearing up his armpit, he'll be straight of the the recruiters and take along a bus load of his mates too.

No,no. what FOTR needs to do is like Tourist suggests.....

"Bin all the tree huggy, humanitarian aid, peacekeeping TV adverts and show lots of stuff being blown up, harriers/jsf flying low in a hooligan manner, helo's flying lower and in an even more unjustifiably hooliganly manner, more stuff being blown up, people skydiving, windsurfing etc, more explosions, couple of bits of SAR god storm video, lots of people looking dashing at the summer ball with cute fluff on their arm, big finale of more sh1t being blown up.
Recruitment rockets, Tourist gets a Herbert Lott, everybody happy, job done".....

[STAN DEASY]

If recruiting is such a problem and we all know it is, (not just with the FAA) why not get the insurers/policy boys at MOD to allow school visits in aircraft without the fear of parliamentary questions or ridiculously high premiums.

Why not have a flight or a rolling commitment shared by squadrons to do the summer fetes/county shows, drop off the marines parachuting team and coordinate with local sea cadets/RNR units and recruiting offices.

Lets reinstate DNR Flight and do the job properly. All these badges on overalls will merely make us look like bl**dy ambulancemen on Holby City!

Whilst I am on the recruiting theme, we could focus the sterling efforts of the recruiters more on the potential and needs of the inividual rather than have them persuade enthusiastic youngsters sign up for an unsuitable career merely to meet a performance target. A number of friends' teenagers have been given advice which, when investigatd on the 'inside', was quite inappropriate to their aspirations and abilities. The fall out from these errors is a far bigger negative than can be corrected by wearing badges and logos.

[The Helpful Stacker]

Never, ever, trust someone who feels the need to tell you, he's playing devil's advocate, it normally means he is being a c#ck.

Yeah, you've got me there. I must be a complete c#ck, especially as I'm bothering to reply to your tripe.


:rolleyes:

[BEagle]

What exactly is this badge?

Confusion of uniform by the unwashed genpub is fairly routine; back in the days of the awful Thunderbird jacket I was mistaken for a railway employee. But the best I've seen was when a CAA chap with 4 gold rings turned up at the flying club to do some check ride or other - the RAF Movers who inhabit the hangar went into low earth orbit as they thought he was a senior customs officer about to lead a rummage team through their building! :D

[Training Risky]

It's a sad sad day when certain Navy pilots on this thread suggest that the Navy's recruitment and retention problems will be solved by this badge!

And as for calling the Bag Boss to snitch..... words fail me!:mad: :yuk:

[vecvechookattack]

So, we all seem agreed that this item of clothing is a watse of money and will do nothing to aid the recruitment problem.

So. What is the answer? resurrect DNR flight ?

[360Auto]

The concept of a badge to promote the FLEET AIR ARM is reasonable. The badge may have been given a better reception if the Boys had been given a chance to design one.

A comp with a £500 prize may have got the juices going.

To me a square badge on ovies looks c**p, especially when it looks like the cheap tack we give away on PR stalls.

Surely we want to get the message that there is a Fleet Air Arm in the RN and not that the RN exists. (I'm sure most people know that)

[FORMER PIONEER]

Does this mean I have to take my "SL Aircrew" badge (with appropriate salute) off my left arm?:confused:

[vecvechookattack]

Exactly. Its cheap, tacky and extremely unprofessional. A quick glance around the mess at lunch today and I noticed.......NONE....but most bins are full of them. However, most people seem to be proudly wearing a white ensign on their shoulders....

[strek]

To allow those of us who either have not recieved one yet or do not work at one of the airstations a chance to comment, is there any chance someone could add a photo to expand the debate?

Cheers

[Slow Hands]

This is a wind up, right?

I mean. Hoping to raise the public profile of the RN/FAA by giving the aircrew another badge to wear?

Netx you'll be telling us there's an "introduce a friend and you'll get 10 extra flying hours" bonus scheme.

[Si Clik]

Chaps (because you all clearly are).

First I apologise for losing rag and no phone calls or e-mails made.

Here's a few facts (drawn by market research done over the last couple of months):

80% of the public do not know the RN operate aircraft.

The reason for the badges is straightforward and commonsense. If you live anywhere more than 20 miles from Culdrose or Yeovilton your chances of knowing what rank insignia on uniform means is zip. So pictures on TV or in papers of RN crews in green ovies says RAF to most. How do we get over this ? (and its not just a recruiting issue). Do we invent some new trendy badge that has little public recall value (like flags) or do we use the now universal RN logo. This was a striaghtforward exercise that cost less than a months flying pay, is simple and in some areas has been readily accepted. It was not my idea but made sense when proferred.

Showing the proverble kit blowing up pictures does little to inspire the kids of today especially when they tend to be risk averse and prepared to drop everything when it all gets too tough. We need high calibre people and compete with a lot of other organisations after the same skill sets.

We in the RN have to apprecaite that we languish behind the other two services in the desire of young people to do the job. It is in the background and with Air Stations situated to the West of Bristol get little coverage and going to sea does not do it for most.

On the point of schools visits if you ring me (and those in the know know) I will furnish you with a letter to say your visit is DNR sponsored and get the local careers office to coordinate. Your insurance worries are then over.

VVC has a good point about DNR flight and maybe it will return in some form.

Overall I want those in the FAA to go out and promote the job for us. This is the best way to do it and research proves it. Adverts are fine but kids want the truth from those doing the job. Having spoken to loads at length, they are generally impressed but most wish they'd known about the FAA a lot earlier.

rafloo thanks for starting the thread. I think the more we discuss recruiting the more the message hits home that we are all involved and it is not just up to those in DNR (where there is only one active aircrew recruiter).







:hmm:

[vecvechookattack]

Well put. Articulate and to the point. Well done matey....


Now, I don't disagree with the concept at all. Im all for increasing the footprint of the FAA and encouraging the yoof of today to join the finest band of brothers and by far and away the most professional aviators in the Armed Forces. But why oh why did we choose that badge? It doesn't fit (cos the pen pocket is in the way) and it looks as though it should be accompanied by an AA badge. A lot of RN aviators proudly wear the White Ensign on their Left arms (an Oval badge which fits the shoulder).

So, who chose to have a rectangular badge which disappears up your arm pit?

[Si Clik]

VVC,

The logo is the only thing we will get funding for, as everything from DNR has to use it.

This is a first iteration, and with a little luck the next one will be smarter and probably a little smaller.

The ensign is just not recognised as the general public and yoof associate it with football clubs and soccer thuggery. The sad truth I'm afraid. We need the words (a la foul waether jacket).




:hmm:

[Bismark]

VVC,

You must be REALLY short! Most of the RAF types round where I am can fit a Squadron crest on their left arm above the pen pocket, so unless this new RN Badge is more than 5" square it should fit - unless of course you are really SHORT.

On another point re wearing such a badge. In my day if the powers that be told me to put a badge on then you jolly well did. If the RN have decided to go for the corporate image thing and have one logo to represent it then so be it - most companies do. Look a the problems BA got into when they went all arty on their tails. Taking a look at the RN web-site shows a very clear corporate image and the logo looks fine to me.

Finally, if you are all wearing the same badge then what does it matter whether YOU like it or not.

So I guess its back to the bin and retrieve!

[vecvechookattack]

OK...I submit to yr better judgement (reluctantly) and will wear mine (but sadly not with pride). I wear my stripes with pride and I wear my cap with pride as it identifies me as a Naval Officer. This makes me look like a spotter at an airshow who has collected a few badges. But at the end of the day this is another prime example of General List Officers buggering about with the FAA.

I expect the FAA museum will do a roaring trade



5" square would be brill. This thing is enormous.... and my Pen pocket is on the left..... Now, what happened with the Blue Ovvies? Have they gona away or is that the next thing.

[vector801]

Hey All,


Sorry to side track a little....... but the first port of call these days for young aspiring people is usually a recruitment website.

So can someone please tell me (with all this banter about giving a positive separation of RN Aircrew from others) why is there a Bloody RAF GR7/9 plastered on the man FAA Web Page?????

Can't see rank on the Officers Shoulders but I bet he isn’t RN. Now that has been the primary picture on that page for over a year now. Why Oh Why then if the RN is trying to promote itself and its Air Branch is there not a Picture of a Dashing Lt Climbing out of an FA2 of 801sqn????? Maybe even a Junglie/Lynx/Merlin.


Like my other post suggests, even a Picture of an RN Officer sat in the Cockpit of N26, the Bright Bloody Orange Glider that PNGC have would give me a better idea that the chaps a member of the RN.........



Again, sorry to change the subject a little, but you get where I’m going with this.

[rafloo]

good call fella. Apparently the Merlin has just entered service.....

[fatobs]

On 2 weeks leave - can't wait to get back to work just so I can see this fabled badge, it's all very exciting!! Or as usual hasn't it made it up here (that's outside 20 miles from Culdrose / Yeovilton Si Click) yet??

Can't see what difference a small badge will make as we are always refered to in the press as the RAF despite flying a big red and grey helicopter with Royal Navy written down the side!!

Of course we could just give all aviation to the crabs and then it wouldn't make a difference anyway (I'll just get my coat).

[R3Hard]

A very good point vector! Let us all know what the almighty decision is re your application. Back to smoking my pipe and remembering the old days!!

[Bigtop]

What is yr major malfunction chaps....???

1. We're talking about a badge to identify and promote the FAA/RN which in the grand scheme is going to be as cheap as chips but push out a corporate image and identify any Wafu on the telly as RN.

2. One each to go on Air Day ovies that are no doubt already littered with other badges from past sqn/ship/run ashore affiliations etc so what's the big deal. Let's not get carried away with the regs cos I'm sure in days of old it was decreed current sqn badge on arm and wings on chest only - Trappers concur?? No mention of ensigns etc, etc!! so lets not sling too many regs ehh.

3. As Si Clik states recruiting is a very real issue and the guys and girls coming through the doors have been hard won in competition with the larger conglomerates. And whilst lack of nos may be the keeper of the FRI's it will undoubtedly bring the unwanted merger of jobs/dual hatting, freq of mahogany bomber jobs and greater sea/shore ratios - speak to the Lynx boys!

4. VVHA - 'GL's running the FAA' and you walk around in a cap in yr flying ovies!! If that ain't showing GL tendencies then I'll eat my beret. Std - pass the pepper!!

5. Finally, as Si Clik has stated I'm sure with time there will be a re-iteration of the badge that will allow some personalistion as long as the essential criteria are met. Let's face it Wafu's love nothing better than spending their flying pay on trivia such as mugs/badges etc so lets see how it settles down!!!

[Tourist]

Still think you are missing the point Si.
Q. What was the finest recruiting advert for the FAA in history?
A. Top Gun! i.e. things blowing up, people having fun!!!(yes its silly and unrealistic, but so what?! It gets people through the door, and its what juvenile blokes i.e. future FAA aircrew like) And dont say those aren't the people you want, because thats what the rest of us are. Well paid kids with big toys. That doesn't stop us doing a good job.
Badges, especially ugly badges that will only be seen at airshows(can't wear your ovies home, that would be terrible) will make no difference to a public who can't read the large Royal Navy written on the side of the Cab.

[BEagle]

If 'The Badge' is that square thing with the white ensign and 'Royal Navy' on it as per the RN website, then I can understand why it has received such a poor reception..

Surely a graphic designer could have come up with something better? Which might even fit on a flying coverall?

[engineer(retard)]

"juvenile blokes i.e. future FAA aircrew"

Why only future? :O

[Tourist]

Exactly, why change a working formula?:ok:

[BootFlap]

vector 801, maybe I can help

So can someone please tell me (with all this banter about giving a positive separation of RN Aircrew from others) why is there a Bloody RAF GR7/9 plastered on the man FAA Web Page?????

It is probably due to the fact that Joint Force Harrier has been operating for a while now, and as the Sea Harrier draws down, RN aircrew are being trained on, and have been to/are currently on operations with RAF Sqns flying the GR7/7A. The RN are represented on all RAF GR7 Sqns, including the OCU (SNOT = Senior Naval Officer Training) and will remain so until 800 and 801 NAS become GR9 Sqns. At that point JHF will consist of 1(F), IV(AC), 800 and 801 Sqns at the sharp end and 20(R) as the OCU. There will still be cross-fertilization between the sqns and indeed RAF Sqns will still spend time at sea.

I would suggest that this is the reason the GR7 is featured in the main RN website, it is the future of RN fast jet aviation until JSF arrives (still to be operated jointly by RN and RAF aircrew).

[Spanish Waltzer]

Si Clik quote

"We in the RN have to apprecaite (sic) that we languish behind the other two services in the desire of young people to do the job. It is in the background and with Air Stations situated to the West of Bristol get little coverage and going to sea does not do it for most."

As you appear to be in the recruiting department for the Royal NAVY surely focussing on your fact that going to sea does not do it for most should be more important than a controversial badge that as many have pointed out will be as equally ignored as the different rank/flying/squadron badges, white ensign badge and writing on the aircraft are at present. Surely the sort of people the RN should be looking to recruit are those that have the ability to notice those sort of things and/or are prepared to ask questions or get off their butt to find out more??

[Bigtop]

Ahh, Bootflap - you have just brought many fond memories flooding back!!

SNOT - for those who remember the hazy days swanning around off Bari and cruising the Med during the Adriatic patrols was a famous character referred to as 'Senior Naval Officer Tiger Terrace'!!

For those who dared to walk the hallowed ground of the famous tiggers without being able to proudly wear their badge would endure the fate of a 'terror shake' from a lesser known super hero 'Tabasco Man' or equally offensive mortal 'Chilly Wine Robin'

:yuk:

[FORMER PIONEER]

In Fact "TB-Man" was around well before the Adriatic, prowling Tigger Terrace, Aardvark Alley and 2/5 deck at random. His side-kick, I do believe, was correctly called "Chilli Wine, The Boy Wonder".

Incidently, as one of a few honoured mortals who actually knows the secret identity of the original TB-Man, he happens to be a very successful 3 ringer now, on his way up the command chain!!!

So, evil doers beware.....................:eek:

[Si Clik]

Fatobs,

If you work away from VL and CU then you will still get the badge, they were just the easiest place to issue them first. You're right about the writing thing but people still assume the pilots and obs inside the aircraft are RAF.

Tourist,

Your absolutely right about Top Gun but where is the money, interest from film makers etc. This sort of glossy stuff costs lots of dosh which as Making Waves proved doesn't always come off. Even the Fleet Air Arm TV programme made by ITV has yet to air because the network won't take it up.

SW,

The point is (as you well know) most Aircrew do not join the RN as a first choice (went to the RAF first) and actually quite a few don't like going to sea. The real issue is by a ratio of 7 to 1 they aren't getting off their butts and are going to the RAF.

As a general comment a recent trawl to find people to be involved in FAA specific PR led to only 6 Pilots (4 who had just got wings) coming forward with another 8 Observers out of a total cadre of 1000. If you want to help volunteer for all the PR, shows and opportunities to talk to young people. It is refreshing to talk to them, blow your own trumpet and be generally impressed at their enthusiasm for life and their interest in what you have to say. All those who have done it so far this year have enjoyed the opportunity and the chence for a runa shore outside the norm.






:hmm:

[JG Leitch]

They are not even square, cheap tack,

[Tourist]

No, please don't.

Absolutely the last thing we need is the sort of dross that would be recruited by AEO's
"your most important job is your divisional work"
"we should chop a few pilots who are bad at writing reports"
they make me vomit

[Jucky]

Well said Tourist!

:ok: FLY NAVY!:ok:

[FORMER PIONEER]

Si,
I'm at a fairly large FAA base in the SW, and on a front line unit to boot. Haven't seen hide nor hair of the new badge....................are we not worthy, or is it because Joe Public won't see us when we are sat on our Pusser's grey in the middle of the oggin?
:confused:

[VoicesFromTheCreche]

No sign of our badges yet.....:( :confused:

[Jucky]

We got ours today. Took them to SE who refused to velcro them because they have not been approved for use yet!:\

[Si Clik]

You will all get your badges eventaully.

Apparently the Velcro IPT has a shortage of hooks (or was that loops) and SE gurus not too happy with work. Fleet are working on it.

:hmm:

[Oggin Aviator]

Just got back from leave.

Can someone take a photo of the badge on a flying suit and post the photo on the web?

I bet one won't find its way to me.

p.s. Si Clik - fatobs is in Prestwick.

Mahalo! (clue to where I've just been on holiday!)

[BEagle]

Aloha kâua! Hope you enjoyed Hawaii - which island?



I'd also be intrigued to see this badge on a flying coverall - does it really look as bad as has been suggested?

Wouldn't the white ensign alone have been sufficient?

[Gainesy]

Life in a Blue Suit (either shade) at its best.

"You will take these gash badges off your flying suit". Uproar.
"You will put these gash badges on your flying suit". Uproar.

Love it.:)

Si, maybe you should have just issued a few and waited for the inevitable clamour of "Gizzit", "Its not fair" and "Where's mine"?

[Bismark]

I saw a WAFU wearing one of the new badges yesterday and I have to say they look pretty smart - certainly stand out clearly as RN, are big enough to be bold but not too big to be garish and they seem to reflect the corporate web-site.

VVC,

I also noticed that most of the aircrew at the base near me seem to wear the "black" stripes rather than gold ones so a logo badge seems a good idea.

[vecvechookattack]

and they seem to reflect the corporate web-site. ....
You see, thats my point. we are supposed to be warriors who would kill at a moments notice. Armed sentires of the sky who would rather full you full of lead than eat salmon sandwiches and drink shampoo at a corporate sponsored event.

[Tourist]

I was with you there right up to the salmon sandwiches, but I must admit to having a penchant for them

[Toxteth O'Grady]

Mahalo! (clue to where I've just been on holiday!)

A mis-spelled anagram of Oldham perhaps?

:cool:

TOG

[Door Slider]

Not everyone thinks avaition is all down to the RAF. Stood next my SH asset at airshows I usually get asked whats it like to be in the army!!
Must remember not to polish my boots or put creases in the arms of my flying suite for a while!

[Darth Nigel]

For the standard kit:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/cbbc/bluepeter/contact/badges/images/bluebadge.gif

And for your jungly kit:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/cbbc/bluepeter/contact/badges/images/green.gif

[Always_broken_in_wilts]

Ah, Blue Peter badges............quite apt really:p

all spelling mistakes are "df" alcohol induced

[Mike Rosewhich]

In case you may have not got your badge, Fat Obs and I launched an undercover operation through secret high security defences and found them in ...Stores.

Fat Obs had to distract the "guards" by getting his feet measured for a new pair of flying boots (I jest not) whilst I surreptitiously collected intelligence.

Remember many men risked filling in endless amounts of paperwork to achieve this



http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y217/thejammydodger/Image059.jpg

[orca]

We're missing a trick here. if it's publicity you want then we should have gone for badges the size of the ETPS/ CFS monsters!

In fact, as you're only going to see them out of the cockpit, how about one for the back...about 14 inches by 12....like the Iron Maiden ones the long haired bunch wore in the 80s.

And some 6 inch by 4 examples to fit on the knee-board velcro when 'the brain' isn't needed. (Just NB to put them the right way up.)

[Flatus Veteranus]

I never figured out what was wrong with the RAF (blue/grey) light-weight flying overalls we wore in the '50s. In the Meatbox in the Middle East, that and a pair of knickers was all we wore (accoutred by a silk scarf in, preferably, squadron colours), and black Oxford shoes with two rows of stitching. Well polished (of course!). Rank badges were the same slide-on rings as used on blue raincoats. Then, sometime in the 60's, we switched to a dreary gruntish khaki overall because, we were told, it was made from some fire-resistant material which could not be produced in RAF blue. I cossetted my old blue overalls and hung onto them for years.

If the fisheads want to make a big thing of their difference from the RAF, that's fine. Overstatement is usually a sign of "chips" frying .

[rafloo]

Have these badges gone away. Don't seem to see anyone wearing them. Maybe they are all on sale at E-Bay.

[vecvechookattack]

The rule is that they are only required when you are operating in the "public eye" - what ever that means. But down here in Kernow they have been relegated to the air day ovies and will be seen once a year.... great VFM.

My oppo's in Somerset seem to be applying the same criteria. Not sure what the Prestwick boys are doing......apart from packing up and searching for properties in Cornwall...!!!

[Kris1978]

I think the official line is that they are supposed to be sewn on rather than be velcroed on. Haven't seen anyone do that yet though!

Probably wouldn't do you any favours if you ended up behind enemy lines...

I do think the FAA needs to raise it's profile however. I think it's a major issue, at least they're trying!

[Oggin Aviator]

... apart from packing up and searching for properties in Cornwall...!!! Just for info my house on the Lizard peninsular has just been put on the market. PM me for details. Lovely family house and at a great price in order to get a sale.

Oggin

[vecvechookattack]

What the FAA needs to raise its profile is something like this (http://www.ghost-rider.filmstars.co.uk/)

[Si Clik]

Well if you creative FAA types want to make one and send it to me I'm sure to able to publicise it.

:hmm:

[Oggin Aviator]

Didnt 847 do a couple of videos recently?

[Si Clik]

Lets just cut this Prestwick line,

There is nothing happening with Prestwick for the foreseable future. The SAR stays put!


:hmm:

[Black Labrador]

Does it really matter what colour grow bags or what badges are worn, in a few years all the military tasks will be flown by UAVs and the remainder by either SqueesyJet or BA.

[vecvechookattack]

Lets just cut this Prestwick line, ......

well thats cert then. Along with Yeovilton closing, there is the death nail in Prestwick too. Would the last one out please turn the lights out....

and I have to agree with Black Lab.... the end is nigh. Some years ago when I was tucked up in a wessy5 sqdn in darkest kernew the CO stood up at shares one morning and said...and these are his exact words...." There will be no women maintaining MY aircraft".....


how times change.

[rafloo]

Oi, pinger filth....

I think you'll find that the future at the home of the FAA is bright. VL is open, stayin open and in fact expanding. The 4th wing on the wardroom is almost cert now, the Lynx guys are migratin south..(after migratin north just 5 yrs ago - you have to pity those guys, are they the FAA's whipping boys?) and the new tower is on its way up. Nope, the future of VL is very secure (which cannot be said of Prestwick)

[NR DROOP]

Just heard engineering at PWK will go to civvy contract in Apr 2007. Change is Good:sad:

[Spanish Waltzer]

rafloo - the Lynx guys are migratin south.

How far south are you referring - just accross the runway is what I was led to believe....

[brakedwell]

>whats wrong with the sexy red one's that the Arrows wear ?<
FEBA, after a good night out in Cyprus those sexy red flying suits will clash with the flyboys' eyes.

[fatobs]

Not only do we SAR types (rearseat) have lovely new orange and black multifab Goonsuits we have just been told there are orange flying ovies on their way for SAR crews (front and backseat)!!

Also heard that maintainers here will be civilianised... wonder when the aircrew will follow (only 2 years to go - should work out nicely)

Remember the futures bright ---- the futures orange (at least for SAR)

[vecvechookattack]

I took the opportunity to visit the Devon County show yesterday...along with HRH and his gorgeous new wife. Whilst there I had a bimble arouind the Military section. Imagine, an entire arena dedicated to the Armed Forces of this country. There were kids clambering over Chieftain Tanks, being demonstrated unarmed combat. The RAF parachute display team were there and the Crabs were doing a roaring trade in Red Arrows stickers...and the navy were......hang on, where are the Navy...? But I thought we had a recruitment and corporate identity problem? and this being a fantastic opportunity to put the Navy's image smack bang in the middle of the public eye....and the Navy were nowhere to be seen. My wife commented on the lack of any RN contribution. I hung my head in shame and avoided any further mention of being in the Navy.

[Kris1978]

I know what you mean, I was at the Plymouth military weekend last year and it was awesome!

The Army had
- A Challenger Tank crushing cars and putting on a display
- The Black Helmet Motorcycle Display Team
- Stalls from 3 or 4 different regiments designed for recruiting, all with soldiers milling around talking to the young people and answering questions

The RAF had
- A Hawk display
- A Harrier fly past
- A Tornado F3 display (which was bloody awesome!)
- A Red Arrows stand and numerous RAF recruiting stands with personnell in rig chatting to youngsters

The Navy had
- A knackered old stand with a fat scruffy matelot and a couple of leaflets.

It's okay venting frustration here, but we really need to push this to the people who matter. It is sometimes embarrassing!

[vecvechookattack]

Your dead right mate....so. here goes.

Dear Admiralships,

I have been a proud and loyal servant to Her Majesties senior service for many, many years but recently I have become saddened by the poor corporate image and poor state our service is portrayed. It depresses me to see the Army and Air Force out shine the RN by displaying most accomplished and professional displays at public events. Please, please can we re-establish the lead in these events and once again have my beloved Navy leading the way.

[BEagle]

Dear vecvechookattack,

Conscious as you are of our proud naval heritage and fine traditions, you will be pleased to learn that, rather than waste the taxpayers' cash by attending numerous small local shows, we have made a corporate decision to review our recruiting methods.

After in-depth overarching strategy conferences of blue water out-of-the-box thought and some jolly fine lunches, we have concluded that the most cost-effective recruiting policy was that pioneered by the Impress Service in the late Eighteenth Century.

We shall, therefore, be establishing a Rendezvous in most major ports - OK, Plymouth and Portsmouth then - and appointing Regulating Officers to manage the Gangers who will enforce the new recruiting policy.

This policy will come into effect once we've worked out what the King's Shilling equates to in today's currency.....

Yours aye,

I M Press
Vice Admiral

[Si Clik]

Some key facts for you (if your listening),

DNR are presently investing large sums of money in a brand new fleet of recruiting vehicles which will hit the roads later this year.

DNR have also asked for a major increase in funding to address some of the issues you allude to.

What you also forget is with a very limited number of resources, there has to be a priority call on all assets. I suppose you have investigated fully where our 3 trailers might have been yesterday on a national basis.

One thing that you're right about. Everyone must take notice of recruiting (from 1SL to AET2) because ALL the services are having problems.

:hmm:

[Dancing Bear]

Si Clik,

I guess from yr inputs you are the fine fellow who provided the funding for me to visit my old school, acompanied by the Local AFCO Bod and the Schools presentation team with my Mk 8 Lynx just before I handed over my final Flt Cdr responsibilities, net result; from an outlay of a couple of hundred quid in subs;

Hundreds of kids raving about the ROYAL NAVY operating helos, dozens of kids attending the RNSPT roadshow and an awakening in all of what we, the RN do. I would have quite happily worn a badge with a ROYAL NAVY logo on it if it meant educating a few more folk as to the role we actually achieve.

Also my flight lads had a damn good time building team work for my relief and trying to trap schoolkids, oops sorry trying to delete that last bit!

The moral of my rant is that we need to go back to the DNR flight and plenty of schools visits and get them young! The balderdash about insurance is just twaddle, there is a wonderful fella at VLN who will sort it all out on the basis of a school address and a contact number as well as providing all the stuff on risk assessment for the civvy worriers.

PS I would be very happy to visit anywhere and sound off about how much fun I have had in 15 years of FAA Aviation, shame current commitments will preclude, anyway wish you all the best for recruiting my relief although please do nbot rush as I quite fancy FRI 2 in 18 months!!

Regards DB

[Gainesy]

Had a Navy Lynx visit a local school last year, nice 1/3rd page write up in local rag with pic of said Lynx and driver, described as RAF.:rolleyes:

[vecvechookattack]

I suppose you have investigated fully where our 3 trailers might have been yesterday on a national basis.

Thats the problem...with only 3 of them there is a bugger of a job finding them.....3 is ridiculous....more required....

and the comment ref limited resources beggars belief....unbelievable....once again I hang my head in shame

[Bigtop]

Si Clik,

Read your PM's. I went to Plymouth last yr and Devon today. Disappointing..... we need a/c there or a tent with all the branch trades like at Cu air day. The Amry had tanks - they drive tanks - we had a lorry???... Nuff said!!!

Sad that all my young lad talks about is how great the army display was!! And I have to agree, if I was weighing up joining the Services today as a youngster in Devon & Cornwall based on those two showings the Navy would be at the bottom. And it's our back yard!!

Rant, rant, rant.

Will you fund me to go to Devon and Royal Cornwall next yr??

I hope we're not outshone in Portsmouth for T200!!!

[vecvechookattack]

Does that mean that when the AAC move to a Naval Airstation they will have to wear "British Army" badges?

[burpblade]

latest - the stovies (yes, all 12 of them) didn't like losing their left sleeve jet badge for the RN corporate blue badge cos they're all crabs now and one's nothing in the bar without a jet badge; so they whined to Big Sir on Fantasy Island and he said ok then chaps have it your way again all change and everyone gets to wear an a/c badge as well. put the big blue one on the front of the overalls opposite the new wings that also have royal navy on them.

Is there enough Velcro this time?

[Si Clik]

Well,

There's 6 months work down the drain.

All of one company, combined ethos, no inter force elitism. I think not!

I'll bring this up at the NASM!!!!!!!!!!

Si

[FB11]

Burpblade,

Oh dear, must have been a slow day in the crew room.

The reason that the RN element within Joint Force Harrier suggested a different approach to the (large, ungainly) RN badge was to acknowledge and accomodate the joint aspect (clue in the title) of Harrier operations. The aircraft badge in JFH is the only common piece of cloth RN and RAF pilots wear and we decided that to remove it and get a smaller RN badge elsewhere was a good compromise between corporate identity and jointery.

Do you have an alternative suggestion now that you are better informed or do you want to start another stovie rant?

[burpblade]

Exactly Si. Pathetic isn't it?

[Logistics Loader]

Having lived in "Guz" for a lot of years i used to go to Navy Days and see the kit that the Snr Service operated...

The big problem for the RN is that HMS Invisible or the like will not fit up the River Exe to visit the Devon show...!!!

Maybe a bigger recruiting drive on the annual Navy Days is the way forward, or maybe for the RN recruiting teams to arrange a weeks work experience for 6th formers.

This could be spent onboard in home waters so that they get first hand experience....if this already happens sorry for re-iterating the point...

[pigfist]

FB11

Quelle surprise! I am honestly surprised that it took this thread 6 pages to start the "stovie" bashing - perhaps burp blade was still trying to find something interesting to say. And all that drivel about "one company" on a well frequented web site. Tw*t.

As for positive recruitment, get the RN (whether it be GR7 or FA2) to wax the school at 250ft/450kts whilst the RNPT team are there. Can't fail to get the kids interested. Relies on the premise that we can find the school admittedly but I suppose any communal building will do. Reminds me of the story about a recce mission over Sunderland........or was it Newcastle?

"Remember, everything has a pk of 1.0 if it hits you"

[Bigtop]

Well, I've recently returned to flying and no sign of my RN Logo badge!!
Was the grat issue a one off??.... so in a year or two the youngsters who were just coming through the system and are our best recruiting advert, and the ones we should be pushing out to the recruiting fairs will be as inconspicuous as apparently we have been for years??

Standing by for deluge of unwanted badges!!!!

[Nobby's Nuts]

".... so in a year or two the youngsters who were just coming through the system and are our best recruiting advert, and the ones we should be pushing out to the recruiting fairs will be as inconspicuous as apparently we have been for years??"

As a filthy student brackets second class citizen we have been told that there aren't enough badges for us. Don't think it's gonna take a couple of years!!

[Climebear]

FB11

The aircraft badge in JFH is the only common piece of cloth RN and RAF pilots wear

You just know I'm going to be picky - surely you both wear the same type of flying suits - so they'll be common pieces of cloth too. I know it doesn't add anything to the debate, just didn't want you to think you've got away from my inane drivel.

[southside]

And he puts it down to Stovie bashing..????? The Entire Fleet Air Arm has to wear this monstrous badge ....the entire FAA that is except......12 Stovies. The RN Element of JFH should be ashamed of themselves.

[Gimme300]

Good thread! Havent been on here since I got fed up with the uniformed whingings of crabs, pongos and matelos collective.

Si - from the gist of your speech at the last NASM, I thought you had realised that the 9-10 year old age group needed targeting in their schools and that would be top priority?

Badges? Oh do come on, firstly I am in the Navy not the scouts, and secondly if people cant see the whopping great ROYAL NAVY on the tail of the aircraft, then they arent going to notice a small one are they!

The new fly navy stickers? Who dreamt those up - they have certainly caused some guffawing with our joint collegues, they have several offers of what the difference is!

Get the kids young, ensure the wasters at DCC(N) do their jobs properly and make sure that the press only get one chance at airing/printing RAF Culdrose etc etc, and keep the employees sweet and happy as they are the ambassadors....oh bugger, a flaw in the plan, I will get my coat!

[Si Clik]

g300 et al,

Since I now longer work where I can get a budget to buy badges
I can't help. I happen to know another order is on the way hopefully a tad larger than then first -whats a tad?

Bigtop - I have one left (with velcro) just for you!!! You may have it ...would you like it delivered?

On the schools front there is a whole heap of that going on from what I understand - helped to set up.

Anyway back to the heads & bathrooms......................

Si

[Stitchbitch]

Thankfully for all you fishheads I have the worlds supply of velcro out here, which means :

a) you'll have to have your stinking badges sewn straight on to your uniform

b) I'll be getting fat off the chockie hobnobs 'gifted' for sewing on all the pongos new recognition badges with velcro

c) I'll have enough velcro left to sew my big gay RAF badge onto my combats (x3)
(why Lord,why?)

bring it on!

[Training Risky]

And he puts it down to Stovie bashing..????? The Entire Fleet Air Arm has to wear this monstrous badge ....the entire FAA that is except......12 Stovies. The RN Element of JFH should be ashamed of themselves.

Maybe the Cottesmore contingent of the FAA worked harder at school.... and therefore worked out a way to avoid wearing a corporate monstrosity that pingers, baggers et al, couldn't come up with themselves!!:p

+++ INCOMING- +++

[southside]

But thats the point. Why would they WANT to work out a way not to wear the badges. Surely, they should be proud to wear the badges. Are you saying they are NOT proud of the badges?????

[Data-Lynx]

By the way there is a green and black one probably inbound for the junglies
Si Clik
Back in April, you mentioned a camo version. I have tried Nwd stores, but a request in Pushtu might have been more successful. Always willing to raise the FAA profile so is there a suitable reference number that the stackers might recognise pse?

[Training Risky]

I'm not saying for one second that the skates are not proud of being in the navy. Why only yesterday I was discussing with one who was looking forward to the big FAA event of the year... was it Tarantula or Tarantino night?

What I am saying has been said on a previous page: A choice between a very cool Harrier badge that shouts to the world of your acheivement.... or an advertising gimmick?

(Anyone who can't tell that a chap is in the navy from his white boater, gold bars and ridiculous sideburns, isn't worth telling via a badge! Why would said uninformed individual care?)

[Toxteth O'Grady]

FAA Recruiting staff officers' discussion.

"Got a brilliant idea. Let's make a really loud, large and prominent corporate identity badge for FAA growbags."

"Why? Surely it'll just be a waste of money?"

"No it's not because no-one can discriminate bewteen the RAF and anyone else in growbags. The assumption is always if its airborne it must be RAF."

"Fantastic idea Bloggs. But there's a flaw in your argument. People might be able to see the badge too easily."

"Ah yes, see your point. Can't have that. Won't go down at all well with the Junglies."

"By Jove. I think I've got it. Let's waste some more money and come up with a green and black camo version that nobody will be able to see."

"Brilliant. I can now see how your Staff work got you promoted."


:{ What a load of :mad:

:cool:

TOG

[Data-Lynx]

Toxteth
Has comfort in the States blurred memories of what life is like working with those who model CS95? I am willing to slap the latest corporate logo on what is, for many, a working uniform around aircraft. I am grateful if it does not try to label most of my right chest with kindergarten lettering to offset barcode rank badges. A working day with the Army is easier if the logo isn't white. I have wondered at the v bright colours on the PJHQ badge, the black JFHQ badge is somewhat severe and I did baulk at the green version of the RN ensign, which was much larger. So, on balance, anything that their Lordships have actually agreed on to help re-establish a bit of RN identity is fine by me. My opportunities to get back in the front seat are few so I'll do my bit as self-loading luggage, happily sporting my green badge - if I can ever find out how to get one.

[Tracey Island]

VVCA - a tadge myopic methinks. Life in the small community that is the Cornish Flying Club may be rosy but in the wider FAA, our reliefs are nowhere in sight. Thank you for your help thus far - guess you'll be the first to mank when you've no relief nor career progression....?

[Growbag]

It's not as if its any great hardship to wear a badge on your Jon Bon's is it? Although it does smack of trying a bit too hard for very little reward. The cost of the badges pales into insignifiacnce when you take into account the cost of all the T8 rides that the harrier force are dishing out to B list celebrities and journalists in an attempt to raise the profile of a jet that is going out of service!:confused:

[rafloo]

Heard a rumour that the FAA are having to remove all of the flying badges which were issued just a few months ago. Seems that the chap who designed the badge holds the copyright for it and wants a shed load og spondoolies for it.... hence, the order to remove them.

Good waste of money that idea was then...

[AllTrimDoubt]

Shame I never got mine - could have e-bayed it for £££ !

[Si Clik]

RAFLOO,
I'm afraid mate you're info is wrong. The RN logo is the intellectual property of the RN and was designed for the RN by Saatchi's for a not inconsiderable amount of cash.

The badges were bought initially by me and are now freely available to anyone from Terrane (at 3.50 a throw).

[rafloo]

Well, a reliable soiurce from an Air Station in the South West is reporting that the guys are all removng them for fear of ending up in court.... There are a lot of guys walking around with black velcro patches on their arms...and the offending articles in the top drawer....

[Si Clik]

RAFLOO,
Since I am part of the management of a SW based Squadron and we insist people wear them, you're source is much mistaken.
PM me for more!
Si

[rafloo]

Are these the ones with the blue border ? Ive been told the bl;ue bordered ones are to be removed but the ones with a white border are ok? Mine has a blue border and Ive been told to remove it.

[circle kay]

Rafloo,
is it a light blue border?:)

[fatlad]

As far as I'm aware the only official RN logo is the one with the white boarder. When the guidelines for using the logo were issued around 2 years ago it specifically mentioned that the logo was to include the white boarder and that it should not be altered in anyway.

I was under the impression that people are being asked to replace their non-boardered ones with the correct white boardered logo.

[Si Clik]

All quite strange really since the one from Terrane definitely has a blue border as well. It was an initial mess up by the contractor but you shouldn't be taking them off unless you have a replacement. That is farcical.

Si

[Radar Command T/O]

Only in England - people in the Navy afraid of getting sued for wearing a Navy logo!

[Iron City]

The fellow who designed the Smiley Face made it public domain, so you could use it instead.

[rafloo]

Now thats a better idea. I have to agree with Radar. How on earth can a serviceman be under threat of legal action for wearing his corporate badge... Probably get laughed out of court