Don't Do It !

[BAE146]

DO NOT use your hard earned money "investing" in a new start airline for promises of long term employment. I am not referring to paying for endorsements (don't agree with that either) but putting up front, large sums of money to get an airline started.

There was supposed to be an airline starting up two years ago that was going to "blow the freight industry here in Oz out of the water" and I predicted it was never going to happen. Patriot One, nesbit, et al have been decidedly quiet of late.

A little bird flew in from Singapore the other day and there is a rumour circulating he may be seeking "investors" for a new start airline. I don't have any further details so don't bombard me with PMs, just DON'T INVEST in anything you are unsure of. :*

[Obiwan]

You'd think they would have all learnt after AAA Airline back in the early 90s...

[Barbossa]

Bae146 - be careful what you reveal. You were told at your interview exactly why you weren't suitable for the job and remember you did sign an NDA.

[BAE146]

Barboss , I wasn't suitable for the job because I wouldn't throw money into a futile venture and the NDA must have come after my time because I signed no such animal. :E

Good luck with your next venture but don't expect too many pilot investors this time around !:ok:

[Barbossa]

Therefore the right decision was made for both parties. As you were told, perhaps if you had represented yourself properly in your first approach then you wouldn't have been so disappointed when you were rejected.

Whilst you have misrepresented the arrangement quite considerably, I repeat that you should be careful about what you next disclose.

[Howard Hughes]

OK, tell us more so that we can all be aware.

Who or what are you talking about?

Cheers, HH.

:ok:

[Woomera]

Mr Barbossa

Mr BAE146 posted here as is his right a personal observation of what may be rumour or maybe news.

If he did indeed sign an NDA then it is incumbent on him to honour the terms of it and understand the possible consequences of its breach.
You of course have the right to an alternative view of events.

Threats here veiled or otherwise are unwelcome.

We have seen and dicussed here all of the various combinations and permutations of schemes to raise money, start airlines and recruit pilots etc.

The readers here will make their judgements based on their knowledge of the facts relative to what they see here.

Our job is simply to moderate.

An NDA or any other agreement that may exist is directly between the individual parties and will remain invisible to us and are frankly nobody elses business.

For my own part I would personally be very careful about signing an NDA in any context, certainly without prior warning and without passing it by my lawyers or professional association for scrutiny, they are IMHO a very useful but much abused document.

When you are presented with any document and asked to sign it "because it's just routine and everbody has to anyway" it's a good time to stop and holler for a lawyer before you proceed.

If it is that important to them to insist then you should take it equally seriously in deciding whether or not to sign.

As I understand it, it is a contract and therefore a form of valuable consideration must be present?
What is it, the prospect of a job or information leading up to it, maybe, what is your part of the agreement and what rights revealed then or unkown are you giving up.
What if they finally tell you something you already know or is innaproporiate??

It's your call use it wisely.

[BAE146]

True form Barboss , crying to the teacher !

I will be very careful about ensuring that no more friends of mine waste their hard earned money, that's all I intend being careful about.

HH only invest money on listed airlines on the ASX.:ok:

[Ultralights]

or just dont invest in airline outright!

[Normasars]

A wise man once said:


How does one end up with a small fortune in aviation; start
with a large one.

[Eimar Moron]

ANY "airline" that is asking its employees to provide "large sums of money upfront" is obviously unable to gain the funds from anyone else, and/or is also obviously uncertain of that airlines' own viability - otherwise they'd be using their OWN money, instead of OPsM (Other Peoples' Money).

I've got a great idea for an airline as well, and am looking for suitable applicants for Captain, F/O, and F/A positions.
Successful applicants will be required to show their commitment to their future, and that of the company, by investing in ownership in the amount of approximately $200,000 for Captains, $120,000 for F/O's, and $100,000 for F/A's.

Marvellous what you can do with OPsM, isn't it!

[Kaptin M]

Should THIS thread be welded with THAT one ?
V V V V V V V V V V V V V V V V V V V V V V V V V V V V V V V V V V V V V

[Groaner]

Just because Woomera raised the point (and I'm not a lawyer, so by all means check this before relying on it):

Yes, you do need "valuable consideration" for a valid contract. However many court cases have clarified exactly what "valuable consideration": anything of possible value - even a peppercorn.

So an NDA might have as consideration the possibility of the prospect of a slightly-plausible chance at applying for a job, and still be a valid contract and therefore binding as an NDA. Many contracts even have a clause that the parties agree (as part of the contract) that there is "valuable consideration" and that it is sufficient.

I would advise anyone considering relying on a lack of consideration in a contract to void the contract (including NDAs) to be extremely careful - it is unlikely to succeed.

[Woomera]

Groaner you are correct of course, in regard to"valuable consideration" I was not suggesting that it be used to void a contract simply pointing out that anyone should think hard and seek professional advice before signing an NDA or any form contract.

Again in IMHO the correct use would be to inform and discuss the proposal in general terms with the other person and then offer to share clearly defined proprietary information if they wish to proceed further by the signing of an NDA.

If they are not prepared to identify themsellves and the opportunity offered consider walking away. Encyclopedia and vaccum sales companies might get away with this recruiting method.

IMHO it's a matter of personal respect isn't it. Start as you mean to continue.

[oldhasbeen]

With that sort of legal mumbo jumbo Groaner ,I reckon you'd make a top lawyer!!:D :D

[Buster Hyman]

Okay then, for those of you that are considering it...I know this guy in Nigeria and.....:rolleyes:

[amos2]

So what's wrong with putting some coin into a new venture?

After all, I put some dollars into Compass and we got 12 months work before they went broke!

No, hang on a bit...that was Compass 1...

my money was in Compass 2!!...they only lasted 6 months, I forgot about that! :{ :{

[Sunfish]

Bae146, don't worry, Barboss is simply trying to frighten you into silence.

I've had the dubious pleasure of signing and requiring plenty of NDA's in my time. For the courts to enforce them, they must be reasonable, and the injured party needs to prove substantial material injury has occured as the result of your disclosure.

The idea that some scumbag get rich quick merchant can try and con you and then prevent you from saying what a shill you think he is, is simply wrong.

I've seen some laughable NDA's in my time, usually the longer and more hair raising they are, they weaker and stupider the proposal.

Example: An NDA from the legal team of the "inventor" of a "New" anti coagulant drug that wanted to prohibit an entire university from doing research in the same area.

An inventor of software preventing us from doing any software company startups for three years in his field.

An NDA preventing us from talking to anyone, the company's employees, suppliers, consultants or even carrying out our own research on the business proposal that had been put forward to us. We were not even allowed to talk to other companies in the field to determine this person's bona fides!

The list goes on and on.

Post all you want, the threats are empty unless you decide to take the idea and do the same thing your self - and then make a great deal of money at it - enough for Barboss to want to sue you.

By the way, the idea has to be "Novel", and not in the public domain as well.

[F/O Bloggs]

BAE 146,

Which start-up airline was it that barboss was referring to?

[BAE146]

There is no start up yet, but..............

A player from the now stagnant Australian Challenge Airways flew in from Singapore last week and a friend of mine, who works at the old Ansett maintenance base, heard a rumour there was a meeting regarding a possible new start up.

Where there's smoke there's usually fire.

I will post as soon as I get some facts as distinct from rumour ! :cool:

[Buster Hyman]

Is ACA definately gone then? I got sounded out for a ground role & heard nothing since...I was breathing normally whilst I got on with my life, but it went quiet rather suddenly.:confused:

[Ash767]

The problem with the aviation industry is that it is a case of Monopolistic competition i.e. many firms competing for the same group of customers (GA).

Of course in the main stream, we have a duopoly (VB, Jet*), and , if a competitor comes along those two original companies cut their fares to perhaps below their average total costs.

So, the moral of the story is like Ultralights said, don't put your money into aviation because competition is fierce and a price war will send a new entrant out of business.

Ash:ok:

[Pinky the pilot]

My late Father spent over 45 years (with service in WW2 in between) in the legal profession as a law clerk. He drummed it into me very thoroughly;
When you are presented with a legally binding document which you are requested/required to sign for any purpose whatsoever, you do NOT sign it until it has been checked by a lawyer!
'Nuff said!

You only live twice. Once when
you're born. Once when
you've looked death in the face.

[Point0Five]

When you are presented with a legally binding document which you are requested/required to sign for any purpose whatsoever, you do NOT sign it until it has been checked by a lawyer!

Not a bad piece of advice, even though it does create an unreasonable amount of scare mongering in favour of the legal industry. :ok:

Having said that, if this is the case, why are people so keen to seek advice off an anonymous forum on the internet? :hmm:

[Pinky the pilot]

Point0five; If this is the case why are so many etc
Quite a valid comment! Perhaps I should qualify my post by stating that when my dear late Father was employed in the legal profession and made this statement to me the legal profession was then highly regarded and indeed respected!
As in about 25 years ago; long before they became a money hungry/chasing mob!:yuk: :yuk:

You only live twice. Once when
you're born. Once when
you've looked death in the face.