Fighter pilot ejection

[boardnick]

Hello all,

just a quick question, does anyone know if there is a limit on the number of times a fighter pilot can eject?

I have heard rumours that the allowable limit is three, beyond that the human body starts to get a bit upset at being exposed to such high g-forces.

Can anyone answer me this and point me in the direction of some sort of document which I can reference for a report I am writing please?
Thank you.

[beamer]

I seem to remember that when those two Migs collided at Fairford a few years ago I was told by the RAF doc who first attended the scene that one had ejected about seven times and the other three..........the mind boggles ! I did know the brother of an RAF pilot 70's/80's who I believe had been out three times but again perhaps the memory fades after so long.

[johnfairr]

A guy I knew in the 70's had banged out twice, consecutively, from Sea Vixens, albeit 6 months apart. He is now shorter than the girl he married, which wasn't the case at their wedding. Caused the odd few remarks till all was explained. He was then told not to fly any bang-seats again and ended up with me on the mighty Shacklebomber.

jf

[idle-centralise]

Simple answer is no, it depends on the medical reports on your back etc. But I wouldn't really fancy more than 3 to be honest......

[Onan the Clumsy]

Not that I know what I'm talking about, but I read that with some of the early seats, the shock was so great that there were a lot of injuries reported, and consequently the general consensus began to switch to riding it in if possible rather than punching out. Don't know types involved or even dates though :(

[Michael Edic]

Hi all,
Have been reading this site with interest for a couple of years and finally decided to remove my digit from where it really shouldn't be and register.
Just to confirm that Idle-Centralise is correct and all depends on the medics' report. Theoretically no limit but if you had to bang out more than a couple of times would you not get the message that someone doesn't like you?
Regards
Mike

[idle-centralise]

The early seats had an onset of g that was too high for the back, so they messed people up big time. I think you're looking at seats earlier than the mid 70's at least. Sure someone out there must know.

[TwoDeadDogs]

Hi all
Wasn't there some Tomcat jockey who had survived four and was killed on his fifth? Maybe Jimgriff can elaborate.
regards
TDD

[idle-centralise]

who was the guy that ejected straight down in an F15 at over mach one?

[Tarnished]

I think that the number of ejections theory comes from the days when the medics were lacking some of the tools to investigate the potential damage that they now have. Old seats BIG bang, new seats longer periods with high g loads, different sorts of injuries from then compared with now. Docs were inclined to err on the side of safety, makes sense to say "after two big bangs no more flying for you Jim Lad" if you don't have the MRI or Cat scans to see what has gone on.

If there is no sign of damage and the docs can't find a reason to "protect" you from yourself them there is no "rule" to be inforced as far as I know.

If you read the appendix to Sir James Martin's biography I think the stats are 6000+ ejections, 250 double ejectees, 20 triples and a couple of 4 timers. Mind you this is only MB seats, would be interesting to see stats from FSU and other manufacturers.

Me, I called it quits after two.......

Tarnished

[Gainesy]

Bernie Lynch, the Martin-Baker test bloke, did severalteen test ejections, mostly with the older 1940s-1950s seats. Not certain how many, I'll try & find a reference later today.

[BEagle]

Didn't the well-known RFK jump out of a couple of Lightnings (including one where he dialed up Dublin ILS and aimed his jet in that direction on autopilot before he pulled the handle....) before finally knackering his back pushing a car?

[maninblack]

If my memory serves me right a certain ex-RAF driver famed for his whiskers had dropped a Wessex in NI, abondonded a Hawk after a mid air and dropped two Tornadoes.

[A2QFI]

I recall that Martin Baker held a dinner in London to mark the 4000th life saved by their seats and that was in about 1967. One pilot there had allegedly ejected 3 time in 4 sorties! Twice in consecutive sorties in Vietnam and then on his second sortie on a new squadron at Lakenheath

[VitaminGee]

This thread reminds me of the old Tugg cartoon where a young aviator is gobbing off in the bar (some things never change!) and, unwittingly within earshot of Cdr (Air), announces: "Ejection! It's just like Wings's RPC - not many there, and over in a flash"

VG

[Divergent Phugoid!]

I seem to remember a Wing Commander II AC sqn on Jags at Laarbruch had banged out 5 times...

This was the rumour but never had the opportunity to ask him. He was the one with the lovely wife Rosie!! (now works in Mayfair I believe! He does not Rosie):E :E

[Olly O'Leg]

Going off http://www.Martin-Baker.co.uk, 7099 so far with 9 already this year!

For those that are REALLY interested, here's a .pdf file for the history of the seat and Martin-Baker

http://www.martin-baker.co.uk/Acrobat/History_&_Development_of_MBA_2005.pdf

:ok:

[jimgriff]

One could always log on the site with all the info requested!!!

Jims ejection seat site (http://www.ejectorseats.co.uk)

Thanks for the prooners who have contributed to the stories so far....One needs much more!
Come on chaps (and chapesses)
:ok:

[Smoketoomuch]

From the 'spinning' thread I gather ejecting under negative g is unpleasant. Why? Is it because the human spine doesn't like being stretched and then rapidly compressed?

[BOAC]

STM - the main problem is that the posterior (polite word for bum) is not pressing firmly on the seat at the moment the seat fires, enabling the seat to acquire velocity before it starts to move the p/(b). This drastically increases the acceleration forces the p/(b) gets during the ejection, thus increasing the likelihood of injury to the spine.

[effortless]

Just thought I'd post a pic

http://www.ejectionsite.com/eyewitness/tbirdejectdownthroatsm1.jpg

Thank you the ejection site. Film here. (http://www.ejectionsite.com/eyewitness/tbirdeject.wmv)

[Wingswinger]

I've known a few multiple-ejectees but once was enough for me. I was flat on my back in hospital for three weeks followed by a month's sick leave and then on light duties only for two months. The permanent re-arrangement of my spine gives me gyp now that I'm in my 50s. Another fellow on my sqn who banged-out shortly after me was so badly hurt that he never flew again. On the other hand, I knew one or two who were back flying as soon as the BoI had finished with them. It depends on the individual's frame, posture and preparedness.