Death of US girl by AVGAS near Alice?

[RYAN TCAD]

Anybody know the details of what happened to that girl from the U.S. who died from the Avgas spill/splash??? whichever it was - near Alice Springs on that property?

[TheStormyPetrel]

Is this what you are referring to?

Questions over Cynthia Ching's death
Friday, 1 April 2005

Presenter: Barry Nicholls

The tragic death of a Canadian tourist, at Kings Creek station 300 kilometres west of Alice Springs in April last year has left many people asking questions about her death.

29-year-old Cynthia Ching died 6 weeks after being badly burned in an accident where she was set alight after avgas fuel, which was being used as a lantern by the local helicopter pilots, was inadvertently thrown in her direction.

Although the incident took place almost a year ago ABC Lateline journalist, Norman Hermont, first unearthed the story on Tuesday March 29.

Barry Nicholls spoke to Craig Paterson Cynthia Ching's father's lawyer and asked him what he'd been told about the police investigation into Cynthia Ching's death.

"I've been told virtually nothing.

"It would be easier for me to explain what I have not been told, I've been told that they've done an investigation," says Paterson.

However, Paterson is critical of the information he is getting about the investigation into Cynthia Ching's death.

"They don't say how thorough it was, they don't say how many people were involved in the investigation, they don't say how many people were talked to, they don't say how many statements were taken under oath- or in writing. They don't say whether they took photographs or whether they seized physical evidence- the police claim...that's their normal procedure," says Paterson.

Almost a year after Cynthia's death, her family want to know why the severely burned Ms Ching, who was suffering third degree burns to 50 percent of her body, wasn't taken directly to the Royal Adelaide Hospital rather than the Alice Springs hospital.

"Why (wasn't) Ms Ching taken immediately to the Royal Adelaide Hospital burns' unit?...the young woman was obviously burned to most of her body...any casual observer without medical training would know, suffering those injuries should go immediately to a burn unit," says Paterson.
Not only does Mr Paterson question the delay of transporting Ms Ching to appropriate medical care, but also questions why the helicopter pilots were even using the aviation fuel as a illuminating device at night.

"How long had that been going on? why had it been going on?" says Paterson.

Craig Paterson is also concerned that they Northern Territory police weren't informed about the incident until Ms Ching died.

"Why weren't they told the night that it happened by the station owner? and why weren't they told by the Royal Flying Doctor Service that it happened that night why didn't a nurse or a doctor phone the police? why didn't the Alice Springs Hospital phone the police?"

But the question most people are left wondering is, why are we hearing about this almost a year since her death? ABC (http://www.abc.net.au/central/stories/s1336501.htm)

[RYAN TCAD]

Yes! This is what i was referring to.

Any further in-house knowledge?

[The Voice]

Before this thread degenerates completely :also concerned that the Northern Territory police weren't informed about the incident until Ms Ching died. quite simply, in urban areas if an 'incident' like this occurs, NTPol (Darwin) are advised by virtue of the communications system in place, ie if ambo's are required immediately, the police communications system is alerted by the ambo communications system. There is a switching system within the equipment that automatically alerts police firies and ambo's IF they are all required. In Alice, Katherine and other areas, the systems in place are not quite as sophisticated.

Seeing as how this was in a remote area, no such connectivity exists between the two systems. Given that it was seemingly an accident and not a deliberate action, police would not have any need/reason to make any enquiries/conduct an investigation at that time.

Police are advised by the hospital of deaths (of a suspicious nature) when unexpected or unexplained, AND when something requires a coronial investigation, but again as it was apparently an accident, they would have not been told.Why weren't they told the night that it happened by the station owner? and why weren't they told by the Royal Flying Doctor Service that it happened that night why didn't a nurse or a doctor phone the police? why didn't the Alice Springs Hospital phone the police these questions are answered by the explanation above.

It is indeed a very sad situation, but remember, half the story is just that, and you can NOT make decisions on half a story.

[NAMPS]

This thread is becoming hardly aviation related. However, Media Watch last Monday had a piece on it. The transcript can be found here (http://www.abc.net.au/mediawatch/transcripts/s1335450.htm)

I appreciate the need for those at the Station to not "make admissions" but to say Mr Ching and his lawyer were treated in a disgustingly abhorrent manner by those on behalf of the Station is an understatement.

[OpsNormal]

Before those of you who feel you have to make comments regarding what you think you've seen or heard in relation to this case, spare a thought for those who live so far away from medical help. It is quite different to the city, even with the RFDS etc.

You cannot sit there and say that she should have been moved straight to Adelaide, when her condition was such that she needed to get to a hospital NOW, not in three hours.

It is easy to be an armchair expert after the fact but face it, none of you were there, and believe me the father in this scenario isn't as blameless and such a nice guy as he is making out to be.

but to say Mr Ching and his lawyer were treated in a disgustingly abhorrent manner by those on behalf of the Station is an understatement.

Despite being invited to, he categorically would not come onto the station without his team of lawyers and TV newscrew along. That disagreement has been going on since she died. Then they head onto the property and ambush the owner. You tell me? I know that the father wants answers, but to make it a condition of speaking to him that he be able to bring the press and lawyers first up?

Phoning the police as soon as it happened is about as helpful for saving the girls life as blowing up a blue balloon.

Many backpackers do not give any form of next of kin advice, and the girls sister followed the burnt sister from the station that night, not leaving a next of kin info.

I certainly wasn't there, but do know a few of those concerned as I used to live and work on the ajoining station to the south.

OpsN ;)

[NAMPS]

Without pre-empting the findings of any investigation - if there will be one - it certainly appears very little anything could have been done to save her life in the circumstances (those circumstances identified by The Voice and OpsNormal).

What I do have a problem with is how the matter is being handled now (not necessarily aiming this one solely at the Station owners - look at the government response, or lack thereof).

If one of my kids got killed in the same circumstances I would want some answers. It appears to me that Mr Ching has been forced to take the action he has undertaken for the purposes of getting the answers he is entitled to. By using the media, he is bringing the matter to our (the public's) attention and, effectively, seeking to bring to account the NT government's actions in the matter.

[RYAN TCAD]

Hey guy's - thanks for shining a bit more light on the subject.

[CoodaShooda]

NAMPS

I'm intrigued. What actions of the NT Government need to brought to account?

[NAMPS]

A fair question Cooda.

When I say "the government" I'm referring to the Coroner's Office and the police within the Department of Justice and the conduct of an inquest - although having read the most recent articles I understand that Ms Ching died in Adelaide, which gives the SA Coroner jurisdiction, any delay would appear to be attributable to that.

I understand that the NT police did not commence investigations until 6 weeks after the incident (when she died) - quite unusual given the severity of her injuries, regardless of whether she lived or not.

[Eastwest Loco]

I am very saddened to hear that this occurred to a young lady, as I would be saddened to hear that it happened to anyone,but please consider the following.

If the Canadian tourist, Ms Ching, had a comprehensive travel insurance policy it would have included an emergency reverse charge phone number or an in-country 1800 number that could be contacted 24 hours a day to medivac to a hospital with suitable facilities for the degree of injury, even if that required the charter of a Lear or similar.

What I am thinking is maybe no insurance was held, and no guarantee was obtainable that the bills would be paid.

If that is the case, short of the immediate evac to ASP, it was a case of what happens all the time in the US with people expiring in ambulances while their crews desperately try to find one to take them in at all as they are uninsured.

This of course does not in any way mitigate any mistreatment that may have occurred, but it would be scary to think that we might be moving in that direction.

I generally tell my pasengers that if they can't afford the insurance, which is not that much in the overall scheme of things, they can't afford the trip.

If Ms Ching was insured,the insurance company should be actionable as they did not assess the capability of the hospital she was in and/or the actual degree of injury.

I tend to think the non-insured model more likely, as worldwide operations like Omega and Mondial, like their clients, live and die on reputation and performance.

Best all

EWL

[QSK?]

Am I missing something here?"They used cut-out beer cans with aviation gas as candles. Pilot refilled a can, tipped it over - exploded. The fuel ignited the pilot's arm and he panicked and threw the fuel towards where the others were sitting and the ignited fuel landed on Cynthia." What is CASA doing about this incident? Even though the guy in question was not actually flying a helicopter at the time, he is a licensed pilot and should be aware of the volatility of avgas. As a licensed pilot, he is also required by the regulations to practice safe fuel management. Assuming the alleged incident occurred as reported in Lateline, if I was CASA, I would be having a serious look at this guy's (and his mates) continued suitability to hold a pilot licence full stop!!

[tipsy]

I think we can all see this is getting a bit emotional and as a consequence, irrational.

QSK, what on earth has this got to do with CASA? They regulate aviation not fireside goings on in the middle of the donga. There can be no line drawn in any of this to a regulatory or otherwise function. Not even the OLC is that clever or perverted.

tipsy
:ok:

[QSK?]

Yeah tipsy, you're absolutely correct but, for the life of me I still can't understand how the hell any pilot would be stupid enough to be using avgas in this manner. Surely, this alleged act of sheer irresponsibility must call into question the person's suitability to hold a CPL (H) licence in the first place, or to continue to hold a CPL licence?

[Nev Bartos]

Fellas, I think you are over the top just like CASA over regulate.

Q. What does this have to do with CASA
A. Nil

The pilot was using the AVGAS in his own time to provide lighting around his hut as the station owner refused to install lights.

Just because AVGAS was used does not mean that CASA has to storm is.

The lantern had been burning for at least an hour and flamed out. The individual went to top it up, when it ignited and as a split second reaction to the flash of fire he through the container away from himself, unfortunately in the path of the tourist.

The more important question the should be raised is a to the overall management of the situation at the property. Sources suggest family members who are also management at the property were in attendance prior to the incident. Why did the not stop this earlier ?

They really have a duty of care to their employees/contractors to provide a safe working environment.

Nev

BTW: a thread is running on Rotorheads


Rotorheads (http://www.pprune.org/forums/forumdisplay.php?forumid=23)

[Lynx206]

Just reported on the ABC website:

A New Zealand helicopter pilot says he does not intend to return to Australia to face criminal charges related to the death of a Canadian tourist in central Australia two years ago.

Cynthia Ching, 29, died after she was splashed with ignited aviation fuel at a party at Kings Creek Station south-west of Alice Springs in April 2004.

Edward Lee was facing a criminal charge in relation to the incident but the Northern Territory Director of Public Prosecutions (DPP) has dropped the charge because he cannot be extradited to Australia.

The DPP says it will reinstate the charge if Mr Lee comes to Australia but the pilot says he has no plans to return.

"The charges have been dropped, so at the moment the question's sort of irrelevant," he said.

"You've got to cross each bridge as you come to it and the charges have been dropped, so from my point of view there's no need to."

Ms Ching's father, Ralph, had said Mr Lee should act responsibly and come to Australia to face criminal proceedings.

"I think Ned Lee should actually face up to the music," Mr Ching said.

"I think he's a young man and he's going to give up a lot of freedom by not showing up. He's going to be a wanted man in Australia. He can't travel.

"It's not worth it. It happened but you've just got to face the music."

The Ching family's lawyer, Craig Paterson, says he does not understand why Northern Territory authorities have dropped the charges.

"There might be some peculiarity of the Australian legal system or the Northern Territory legal system that explains it but the other thing is that no written explanation has been given or no explanation of any kind to the Ching family," he said.

"We all heard it over here through the media."

Mr Lee says he first learnt about the charge through the media and says he was never asked to come to Australia to face court by Northern Territory police.

"Australian police had my home phone number and then I read in an article that they couldn't extradite me and they couldn't get hold of me, and as I say I found that out in a New Zealand newspaper," he said.

Northern Territory officials say Mr Lee cannot be summoned over the dangerous act causing death charge because New Zealand does not have an equivalent charge. Without the summons, extradition cannot go ahead.

The Northern Territory Government has since changed the law, replacing doing a dangerous act causing death with manslaughter.

Come back and face up to your actions like a man!

[Howard Hughes]

Are they saying we don't have an extradition treaty with New Zealand?
If true, that's ludicrous and the TTMA should be revoked immediately. :hmm:

[PLovett]

HH

There has to be an equivalent charge in NZ for him to be arrested.

Not enough that the charge exists in Oz otherwise the time in custody in NZ prior to the hearing and granting of any extradition order would be false imprisonment.

Clear as mud ain't it. :ok:

[rmcdonal]

So he could come over here and possibly face Manslaughter Charges. Which if he is found guilty would probably negate his CPL (H). Which would mean not only would he spend X years in Prison, but when he got out wouldn't have a job to go to. Thus him wasting $60k or so on his lic.
Im sure he feels bad about what happend, but returning to Aus wouldn't look to appealing. :hmm:
But thats the way things go.

[stillalbatross]

But his actions directly resulted in the death of this person. It is an utter joke that he can't be extradited, what is the difference between this and drink driving resulting in death? It is hard to believe the system can be so backwards in NZ that a killer can walk free, if there is no such charge in NZ does that mean he could repeatedly do the same thing in NZ and never be charged?

What a bad joke, imagine how her family must feel abouit the two countries now.:mad:

[The Voice]

gently people, gently.

The law of the NT is somewhat progressive, so it stands to reason that the Dangerous Act referred to in the above posts is not in the legislative provisions of all jurisdictions.

[ZK-NSJ]

the guy concerned was on tv here tonight saying noone has formally approached him regarding the charges, he also went onto say that he did remain in australia for a year after the incident and the police more or less told him charges wouldnt be layed

[Lynx206]

Maybe...maybe not. If that is the case, then he should come back here to sort things out so there is absolutely no misunderstanding.

[MOR]

what is the difference between this and drink driving resulting in death? It is hard to believe the system can be so backwards in NZ that a killer can walk free, if there is no such charge in NZ does that mean he could repeatedly do the same thing in NZ and never be charged?
What a bad joke, imagine how her family must feel abouit the two countries now.:mad:

Drink driving is illegal, the minute you get in the car with an excess blood/alcohol level you have broken the law, therefore any deaths that result from your actions are criminal.

In NZ, the guy would have been charged under a different law (if he was charged at all), however the treaty apparently requires the two charges to be identical, so no dice.

Personally, it sounds to me like everybody agreed at the time that it was a tragic accident. There was clearly no intent. However, now the family and the press are baying for blood, so the authorities are changing their tune. Somebody has to pay, and everybody is going after Mr Lee. I'm not surprised he is unwilling to step into the fire.

It's a witch hunt.

[tipsy2]

Ah revenge is sweet. Doesn't really achieve much but it is sweet none the less.

tipsy

[Binoculars]

Agree with MOR entirely here. This was a tragic accident with no intent whatsoever. The pilot involved, if he is a normal human being, will spend the rest of his life reliving the incident and suffering the guilt involved. The parent may feel his daughter's life deserves a pound of flesh, and I can understand that some would think that way.

Though it's purely hypothetical I like to think that had a daughter of mine been the victim, after the initial shock I would accept it as an accident and realise nothing would be gained by destroying another person's livelihood.

Maybe I wouldn't be so forgiving; who knows until it happens? But those sitting comfortably in their homes demanding this young man come back to "face up to his actions like a man" should put their self-righteousness aside for a moment and ask themselves what they would do in the same circumstances. Go on, have a long hard think about it and try to be honest. What would you really do? I don't want to hear your answer; it's for everybody to wonder for themselves.

[MOR]

In fact, if I'm reading this right, there were two accidents; Mr Lee getting burnt, and then instinctively throwing the container away from himself.

Maybe, just maybe, if the guy had been irresponsibly throwing burning avgas around, there could be some justification for wanting him to face charges.

A recent NSW review of the law regarding manslaughter and homicide had this to say:

(b) No punishment or forfeiture shall be incurred by any person who kills another by misfortune only.”

http://www.lawlink.nsw.gov.au/clrd1.nsf/files/The%20report.doc/$FILE/The%20report.doc

Obviously this isn't NT law, but nevertheless makes a good point. For manslaughter to be proved, there must be malicious intent (same report).

[CoodaShooda]

Pollies, police and bureaucrats are ducking and weaving for the media.

The Police Commissioner claims that Mr Lee was well aware that they wanted him back to face charges. The reference to extradition problems has been shelved. The official position is now that the charges have been dropped to clear the decks for a Coronial Inquiry in May.

Typical example of the NT Government's preoccupation with knee jerking to every media comment.

I suggest the Coroner will find that this was a tragic accident and no charges should have been, or should be, laid. (Or at least, thats what I hope.)

As far as causing death through a traffic accident, if you're a foreign tourist who drives recklessly into another car, killing a young girl, they'll rush you through the courts on a lesser charge so you can catch your flight home with nought but a slap on the wrist. :mad:

[wawa]

From my limited understanding, causing death by a dangerous act has no equivalent in NZ, therefore cannot be extradited. NT gov is apparently changing the legislation abolishing that charge and replacing it with/under a manslaughter charge. Hence the reason the initial charge has been dropped and you can probably bet a new charge of manslughter will be on the cards when the legislation passes.

RFDS is a free service to all that it transfers, primarily funded by the NT Government when operating in the NT, so having insurance is irrelevant. They also are primarily a medical transport service, so they most likely will not report anything the police anyway.

Accidents do happen, whilst tragic as it was. Allegedly it was common practice to use that type of "lantern" at this particular station, and the pilot was only doing as he had been shown.

Knowing the NT justice system as limited as I do, I would much rather be charged for manslaughter here than anywhere else, may get 100 hrs community service and a slap on the wrist.