Armed Forces Memorial [Archive]

FJJP

6th Apr 2005, 17:18

http://www.forcesmemorial.org.uk/

Q14-16 in the Q&A section makes it clear who qualifies. Remember, that one question ALWAYS asked at an Inquiry - 'was the person on duty at the time he was killed or injured?'

If the answer is 'yes', then clearly his name goes on the memorial.

My donation on the way [credit card on line is v. simple, including a gift aid tick box - eg 28p claimed back from the IR for every £1 donated - substantial stuff].

Come on, PPruners - lets show ARRSE the way!

[ http://www.arrse.co.uk/cpgn/Forums/viewtopic/t=15153.html ]

WorkingHard

6th Apr 2005, 18:05

I think this is long overdue and will contibute. I survived conflict and oft remember those who suffered. How will the names be listed? Simply by alphabetical list by year? Does any one know please?
WH

ORAC

6th Apr 2005, 19:49

Sticky, please?

jindabyne

6th Apr 2005, 21:13

Here's the reponse from Lt Col Callender (AFMP) to my query re-training accidents:

'Thank you for your enquiry. I can confirm that Service personnel who are killed as a result of accidents while on duty will almost certainly be included on the Armed Forces Memorial.'

Mosspigs - no problem! I was 'trained to speed-read by the system', but more often than not the the vino had a negative affect --------

ORAC - agree - sticky called for.

MrBernoulli

6th Apr 2005, 22:13

FJJP

I'm not trying to be controversial, but how would the deaths at Deepcut feature with respect to this memorial. I fear some official Army folk would be embarrassed to acknowledge such events?

Tiger_mate

7th Apr 2005, 08:01

Having seen the memorials that the French have to what is largely "our" ( and the Commonwealth) dead, I have very strong views that such a memorial is far too long overdue. I am very glad to see the proposed site being central to the country rather than another political gimmic in London.

It is particulary irritating that the US have a long established site at Maddingley Cambridge that is lacking for UK Forces.
`Re-phrase` I dont begrudge the US memorial, just p155ed that we do not have something similar.

As for Deepcut, whatever the circumstance; sons daughters brothers sisters etc etc died `on duty` and deserve to be remembered. Lets not make the WW I mistake regarding shell shock - post traumatic stress repeat itself in another guise.

We may not get on too well with the French, but they honour our dead better than we ever will. ....and the British public should be ashamed because of that.

Now where is that credit card..............

Maple 01

7th Apr 2005, 10:24

Apparently doesn’t qualify for lottery funding – Discuss

Roland Pulfrew

7th Apr 2005, 15:12

Board of the National Lottery who distribute the money - Complete t:mad: rs!!!

WASALOADIE

7th Apr 2005, 15:47

Excellent idea,
I concur Tiger-mate's views that it is good to see it being sited outside London for once.

Will also be making a donation in respect to a number of friends and colleagues that have sadly passed away.

PPRuNe Radar

7th Apr 2005, 16:00

Never mind the Lottery :mad: any decent minded Government would recognise the sacrifice made by their citizens and stump up the money from their own coffers.

Geting rid of a couple of the more beaurocratic and pointless departments or stopping wasted cash on the numerous corrupt schemes and jobs for the boys which our 'servants' use to feather their own nests would pay for it 1000 times over. :mad:

C130 Techie

7th Apr 2005, 16:12

I agree this is long over due and the design looks excellent.

decent minded goverment pah!!:mad: :mad: :mad:

lottery money appears only to benefit politically correct minorities and obscure art projects!:mad: :mad:

Donation on its way

pzu

7th Apr 2005, 16:22

Must admit, my first thoughts were that HMG should pay;

Then thought some more and got my C/card out - after all it will be OUR National Memorial;

As for Lottery funding !!!

Am only SLF, but am also full (though only just) member of RBL

PZULBA - Out of Africa

FJJP

7th Apr 2005, 17:04

MrBernoulli - Tiger_Mate has it.

The people died. Honour the dead.

RIP.

PPRuNe Pop

7th Apr 2005, 17:16

I think we can agree to a sticky! I personally would love to see PPRuNe members giving to this. It is truly a justified memorial to the ultimate sacrifice of over 16,000 of our armed forces.

The link is on this thread. Let us go for it.

PPP

Roland Pulfrew

8th Apr 2005, 06:53

PPRuNe Pop

Thanks for making this a sticky.

Does anyone know if the Forces Memorial is a registered charity? If it is we can make this slimy government contribute as well. If you are a UK taxpayer please donate using the "gift aid" scheme. Then for every pound you donate you can at least force the government to contibute 26 pence (IIRC). Its not as much as they should be contributing but it is better than nothing!!!

Reaches for credit card in memory of a few good friends:sad:

Roland Pulfrew

8th Apr 2005, 12:44

Just checked and done my donation. Forces Memorial is a charity and it is 28 pence in the pound that they can claim from the government not 26. (With the added benefit that higher rate tax payers can also claim more back from the Treasury on their tax returns so another donation to folllow).:ok:

LoeyDaFrog

8th Apr 2005, 22:48

A fine, fitting and permenant tribute to our comrades who have fallen before us. Have donated with pride.

Arkroyal

9th Apr 2005, 08:36

Lottery funding.............................Hmmmmmmmmmm.

I guess we just have to wait a few years until wimin and gays who've died for their country to outnumber the folk who've passed away so far.

Now to the website, and the credit card.

Maple 01

9th Apr 2005, 09:33

But a good few servicemen who've been killed over the years must have been 'gay' - I seem to recall that the unofficial policy was that as long as it wasn't too obvious no-one said anything. So should be OK on that count, also the British armed forces were multicultural before the word was invented so a tick in the box there. Disabled? Well there are a few of us on low med cats - does that count?

Also I hope the Air Cadets that went down with the Wessex a while back are remembered - being part of the family and all.

idle-centralise

12th Apr 2005, 20:38

and the UAS stude that died at Woodvale hopefully.

rafloo

13th Apr 2005, 13:47

Not sure that the UAS stude will get his name there bt he should do

X-QUORK

13th Apr 2005, 15:42

Have donated and forwarded the link to all mil types I know with e-mail - I'd request that everyone does the same.

A great idea and long overdue.:ok:

kippermate

16th Apr 2005, 16:11

The LUAS stude was a female, and I will contact those involved to put forward the case.

kipper.

Credit card out.

Scud-U-Like

17th Apr 2005, 17:14

May I suggest some of you read about the work of the National Heritage Memorial Fund (funded by the National Lottery), before posting the usual halfwitted Daily Mail-type guff about Lottery funding:

http://www.hlf.org.uk/NHMFWeb/AbouttheNHMF

The memorial is a fine idea.

Roland Pulfrew

18th Apr 2005, 11:59

Chaps,

Following the debate on will and will not be eligible I contacted the Armed Forces Memorial people this was their reply:

As a general rule if a member of the reserve forces is killed on duty, i.e. while they are on annual camp or attending a drill night and their death is directly related to their service, their names will be included on the Armed Forces Memorial. In the event that their death while on duty was the result of natural causes, it is unlikely that their name would be included on the AFM, but it would be included on the Rolls of Honour for their respective Service. In any event, the Trustees have discretion to include or exclude certain cases.

Hope that helps clarify things....a bit.

Maple 01

19th Apr 2005, 13:02

Sorry to be so thick but do cadets count as reserve forces? - BTW haven't been reading the Daily Mail, just the site where they say they have been turned down for lottery funding- any ideas why?

The Helpful Stacker

22nd Apr 2005, 19:46

Sorry to be so thick but do cadets count as reserve forces? - BTW haven't been reading the Daily Mail, just the site where they say they have been turned down for lottery funding- any ideas why?

I believe its for the same reason that some service charities have had applications for Lottery funding turned down, because the 'facility' won't be of benefit to the entire population or something, only service personnel.

lineslime

25th Apr 2005, 18:44

I guess modern arts are of a benefit to the whole country. I mean the armed forces do absolutly nothing, and have done absolutly nothing for this country. It makes I mad that lottery money is thrown at various "good causes" which haven't benefited me one jot, yet something which pays tribute to those who have defended this country, and still do, won't recieve any funding. Will someone please step in and sort this out, those who have passed, and those yet to pass deserve it!!!!
:* :* :* :* :* :*

Scud-U-Like

25th Apr 2005, 22:20

The Daily Mail patio falangists strike again.

There are very many examples of lottery funding going to war and armed conflict commemoration projects.

The £12.3 million Home Front Recall scheme is a joint funding initiative from lottery good cause distributors the Big Lottery Fund and the Heritage Lottery Fund to provide grants for activities across the UK to commemorate the part played by those on the home front during the war years – among them veteran firefighters, auxiliary services, nurses, Bevin Boys, dock workers, ex-service clubs and people in many other roles. (http://www.hlf.org.uk/English/Articles/Latestgrants.htm)

The RAF Museum is to undergo a major £7.5 million expansion at its site in Hendon, north-west London, with additional space for historic aircraft and a large-scale exhibition scheduled to mark the centenary of powered flight in 2003. (http://www.raf.mod.uk/history/expand.html)

Their Past Year Future is a two-year education project that explores what we can learn about issues such as commemoration, conflict and citizenship. Marking the sixtieth anniversary of the end of the Second World War, the project is led by the Imperial War Museum and supported by the Big Lottery Fund. Their Past Your Future includes a wide range of activity for all ages throughout the UK. Find out more. (http://www.theirpast-yourfuture.org.uk/)

HMS Warrior (http://www.hlf.org.uk/NHMFWeb/SearchDatabase/ProjectDetails.htm?projectid=999?searchcount=0?searchbox=hms %20belfast)

I could go on.

Maple 01

26th Apr 2005, 09:00

All well and good Scud, but still dosn't answer the question - why was the memorial turned down for funding?

Scud-U-Like

26th Apr 2005, 09:40

I'm not sure the Memorial has been conclusively turned down for lottery funding and, according to the AF Memorial Project website, "This option is still being pursued".

Roland Pulfrew

28th May 2005, 15:44

Seems to have lost its 'sticky' characteristics, so back to the top.

Roland Pulfrew

8th Sep 2006, 12:16

Ladies and Gents
Given the on going losses being experienced I just thought it might be time to bring this to the fore again: :sad:

http://www.forcesmemorial.org.uk/memorialproject.asp

Maybe I should have posted on some of the more general areas in PPRuNe, perhaps the mods could move it if they feel it more appropriate?

Perhaps someone who uses ARRSE might like to readvertise there as well.

cazatou

8th Sep 2006, 19:34

I think you will find that the LAST thing the current Government would want is a Memorial to those killed on THEIR watch!!!!!

GOLF_BRAVO_ZULU

8th Sep 2006, 22:06

The point you make is very laudable but I fear that we may become too mawkish and, perhaps, devalue the memorials we already have. The Cenotaph has grown beyond its original purpose; the commemoration of the souls lost in the, then, Great War. We now remember those who have given their lives since then; be it the 2nd World War, Korea, Malaya and so on. The National Arboretum is a living memorial that already exists and has the flexibility to grow as discreet events dictate.

There is a modern trend not to mourn in our traditional British way. Witness the near hysteria at the funeral of the Princess Diana and the myriad roadside “shrines” of flowers, teddy bears and the like. We are who we are and we must think rationally and carefully about how we do things. Maybe tradition is old fashioned but our Military is founded on it.

For my part, for what it’s worth, lets keep what we have and build on that. Maybe we should leave the breakaway movements to the foreigners.

Ed Winchester

8th Sep 2006, 22:12

GBZ,

I do not follow your argument. The plan is to site the monument in the National Arboretum. Surely this equates to keeping what we have and building on it?

GOLF_BRAVO_ZULU

10th Sep 2006, 09:23

OK, fair point. Until I know more about the proposed Memorial, though, I will stick by what I said.

From the Memorial website; “Following a period of extensive consultation with the Services and ex-Services community it was concluded that a new national memorial should be constructed – to be known as the Armed Forces Memorial”, implies more stone than tree.
The National Memorial Arboretum already serves the purpose described. I would argue that these plantations are individual expressions of bereavement and remembrance. A similar example is the tree plantation to the East of Stanley, remembering those who lost there lives retaking and reinforcing the Falkland Islands. This was an expression of personal gratitude and remembrance by the Islanders. It is now normal to have a short Church Parade there after the Remembrance Sunday Service; and very moving it is too. The salient point here is that this is distinctly additional to, not in place of the traditional event.

I would be interested to know some precise detail of what is proposed at Alrewas. Is the intention to replace the Cenotaph and the various individual memorials?

Roland Pulfrew

11th Sep 2006, 07:42

GBZ

read more of the website. The plan is not only to commemorate those lost in conflict, for which you rightly point out the Cenotaph is the correct memorial, but also to commemorate those lost in accidents and training who are not recorded elsewhere. I have lost a few good friends who have died not as part of conflict but part of routine training and other activities; their names are not recorded anywhere bar their gravestones.:sad: Not on the Cenotaph, not on town memorials not on village or parish memorials.

GOLF_BRAVO_ZULU

11th Sep 2006, 12:19

Sorry Roland P, I was having one of those ripple fired thick moments. I had not grasped the true meaning of the phrase, "have given their lives while on duty".

What would be the intended date start point for name inclusion please?

Topsy Turvey

11th Sep 2006, 23:05

Roland Pulfrew

3rd Nov 2006, 07:35

Ladies and Gents

I know that The Mail is not everyones favourite but they have jumped on this project as their pet project of the moment, particulalry as they can have a go at the "loonies" running the National Lottery funds:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=414207&in_page_id=1770&ico=Homepage&icl=TabModule&icc=NEWS&ct=5

I guess this link will only last for today so I will try and update it over the weekend from their archives.

Rocket Chucker

3rd Nov 2006, 08:24

I posted this link in the Remeberance sticky yesterday - didn't see this thread - I should read more carefully. Anyway the DM appeal address is:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/memorialappeal

I agree with all that has gone before I think we should get behind this. We can't trust this to the Govt. or Lottery IMHO.

PPRuNe Pop

4th Nov 2006, 12:20

In view of the good news, that the Lottery Fund has now agreed to put 2.4m GBP into the project, apparently after an angry Gordon Brown gave the trustees a roasting, it would seem to be a good idea to leave this up as a sticky for two or three days only, and as it is covered in the Rememberance thread.

Good result. The DM report that their appeal is now closed.

PPP

Samuel

7th Nov 2006, 01:47

Having visited the National Arboretum this year, albeit in bad weather, I was hugely impressed by the site both as a memorial today and what it will be like in twenty-five years or so when all those trees begin to mature.

It will be a superb site for a national memorial.

ORAC

25th Nov 2006, 17:57

BBC (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/staffordshire/6183104.stm): £2.8m boost for forces memorial

Plans to build a memorial honouring some 16,000 servicemen and women has been given a £2.8m lottery grant. The Millennium Commission has given the money to build the memorial at the National Memorial Arboretum in Alrewas, Staffordshire.

The memorial honours people killed on duty or as a result of terrorist action since the end of World War II.

Work started on the monument in October but fundraisers still need to raise another £1.5m.....

WorkingHard

25th Nov 2006, 20:49

Any one know who will decide which names are listed please?

Topsy Turvey

26th Nov 2006, 22:48

Any one know who will decide which names are listed please?
According to the Memorial Website (http://www.forcesmemorial.org.uk/memorialproject_qanda.asp)there is a Board of Trustees (Pressumably from MoD). Not sure who but an Army Lt Col was on BBC Midlands a couple of weeks ago and banner referred to him as Head of Memorial Project Team
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