CPL with Jet Endo

[DeltaSix]

Guys,

Just sussing out the situation here for someone. Would anyone ( airline ) employ a 300-400 hour CPL/ME/IR with a 737 endorsement ? Of course with all ATPL subjects passed.

I've heard of these types in the UK but what about the situation here in Oz. Would he or she get at least an S/O job with any airlines ?

Just serious answers please.


Ta

D6

[John Citizen]

Yes, sure it happens all the time in oz. Most 300 hour pilots from the flying schools go straight into the major airlines.

Though you might only earn $75,000 in your first year so a lot pilots knock these jobs back.

I say why not get a B747-400 command endorsement and go straight to QF asking to fly ICUS with another captain in the right hand seat.

Like the say, the worst that can happen is they can say "No".

[vh-oja]

hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!

Funniest thing i've heard in ages

You surely can't be serious?

:yuk:
:confused:
:zzz:

[Howard Hughes]

Just serious answers please.

I can't be serious, so I won't say anything!!

You surely can't be serious?

I think he is!! :hmm:

Cheers, HH.

:ok:

[Capt Claret]

Bluddy wonderful place Orstaylya. The pilots are mostly friendly, they'll flame you should you give them even the slightest chance! :{

D6

I'd suggest the chances are about as good as buying the winning ticket in Saturday's big Lotto draw.

I think there are far too many pilots looking for work with much more Aeronautical Experience. If in Oz we get to the shortage that some European countries seem to have then perhaps things will change but I doubt it.

[DeltaSix]

HH - I can feel that you can hardly contain your laughter at this question but get a grip and put your serious input in. Would love to hear from you...........

JC - looks like they have shot down in flames your input here.
Someone was hoping that what you said was feasible. Appreciate your response though.

Capt Claret - its just that I have seen an S/O with less than 200 hours in an A330. Not in Ostraliya though.

Europe and Asia seems to have them. I guess they are facing shortages.

D6

[7gcbc]

deltasix,

Go for it, forget what others say, if you get ICUS with 300 and a 37 rating, then good on you.

Three of the guys I did a course in FL are on heavies now, one of them got on with 200hrs and a 37 endorsement , the 200 by the way were spent (his words not mine) farting around FL in an archer and 20 hours in a seminole.

Sure its Europe, but like Oz is not going to change ? It will, its only a matter of time.

A jet endo with such a relative small TT, says one thing.........

You are serious and you are taking the game to them, HR (those nice people who feed you biscuits and try and make you "Compny" man) will love it, as a step in the door, its good, however the rewards may be slim to begin with, but you know that anyway.

I'd do it.

[PLovett]

Delta6

It will not change in Australia until CASA get a rush of blood to the head and remove the requirement for 500 hours in charge of multi-engine aircraft as a minimum for command of an aircraft above 5,700 kg.

What flying a PA31, C402 etc. etc. etc. has to do with flying a 737, A320 etc. etc. etc. I doubt the Heavenly Host could tell you but there it is. :mad:

Advise your friend to stick to Europe. :ok:

[swh]

PLovett,

Correct me if I am wrong, I thought the 500 ME Command requirment only applied to low capacity RPT, not high capacity RPT, i.e. I thought you dont need any muti command time to be in command of a high capacity jet under current CAO 80 series, but do to fly as PIC a PA31/metro/SAAB etc in RPT operations.

:confused:

[RYAN TCAD]

There are currently 14,000 unemployed CPL/ATPL pilots that are active in Australia right now hoping to find a job.

Immigration (DIMIA) are about to close off the migration applications to all overseas pilots looking to migrate here as a profession. (About 10 years too late!)

Don't mean to come across as being negative or too serious, but......

Good Luck - cause your friend will need it!

[swh]

RYAN TCAD,

"There are currently 14,000 unemployed CPL/ATPL pilots that are active in Australia right now hoping to find a job."

The CASA Annual Report 2003–04 (http://www.casa.gov.au/corporat/annualreport/htm/part7e.htm) has 10328 total fixed wing CPL/ATPL holders, and 1359 rotary CPL/ATPL holders, a total of 11687 total CPL/ATPL holders in Australia in 2003-04. Somehow I cannot see how 14000 can now be unemployed.

:rolleyes:

[DeltaSix]

So, forget this other guy from EU for a minute.

Let's say in theory, a new CPL here in Oz with 300 hours gets a 737 or an A330 endo somewhere ( US, EU or Asia ), what chances has he got ?

Would it vastly improve his chances if he manages to get ICUS ( not necessarily here ) in the heavies. Dont ask me how much time coz it's just theoretical.

okay, okay say 100 hours in a 737. What chances has he got ?
Not to mention he will starve to death because he will be broke at the end of it.
:}


D6

[404 Titan]

DeltaSix
Let's say in theory, a new CPL here in Oz with 300 hours gets a 737 or an A330 endo somewhere ( US, EU or Asia ), what chances has he got ?
In OZ Zero .
okay, okay say 100 hours in a 737. What chances has he got ?
Again zero.
Capt Claret - its just that I have seen an S/O with less than 200 hours in an A330. Not in Ostraliya though. Europe and Asia seems to have them.
You will find most of these particularly in Asia are cadets.

[DeltaSix]

404 Titan

Check your PM


d6

[RYAN TCAD]

swh - check this link which will take you to the CASA website which says this. Scroll down to the section of "Skills assessments for migration purposes".

Which by the way, is the UPDATED website 2005!

http://www.casa.gov.au/fcl/overbr.htm

Bo!

[Col. Walter E. Kurtz]

What ever happened to ' working' your way up the ladder?

Don't worry about getting good at your ' trade ' , buy yourself an upgrade!

Just another sign of the buy now/pay later, instant gratification society we live in these days, and the kids growin up in it have no patience and a want-it-all-yesterday attitude.:ugh:

[swh]

RYAN,

That number is in error, please look at http://casa.gov.au/fcl/fcl_req.htm. I could belive a statement like there are approximatly 14000 people in Australia that have CPL/ATPL qualifications, and a percentage of them are unemployed.

I can guarentee that there is not 14000 CPL/ATPL holders unemployed in Australia, with 4.6 % unemployment across the country it would be a significant part of the unemployment stats.

[What-ho Squiffy!]

Here is the latest information I have found on the CASA website:

AEROPLANE
6,025&nbsp&nbsp&nbsp&nbspATPL
4,303&nbsp&nbsp&nbsp&nbspCommercial
15,498&nbsp&nbspPrivate
4,564&nbsp&nbsp&nbsp&nbspGFPT Qualified
30,390&nbsp&nbspTotal

HELICOPTER
429&nbsp&nbsp&nbsp&nbsp&nbsp&nbspATPL
930&nbsp&nbsp&nbsp&nbsp&nbsp&nbspCommercial
376&nbsp&nbsp&nbsp&nbsp&nbsp&nbspPrivate
41&nbsp&nbsp&nbsp&nbsp&nbsp&nbsp&nbsp&nbspGFPT Qualified
1,776&nbsp&nbsp&nbsp&nbspTotal

11,687&nbsp&nbspGrand Total of professional pilots in Australia.

For those interested, the link to the CASA Annual report is
HERE (http://www.casa.gov.au/corporat/annualreport/htm/part7e.htm)

[swh]

What-ho Squiffy!,

Good to see you read the first page of this thread.

:ok:

[What-ho Squiffy!]

I did. Somehow your glowing prose escaped my attention.:ok:

[The Enema Bandit]

DeltaSix, if you don't have overseas residency, it may pay to invest in a mail order bride as well. (I recommend Asian, then American, followed by European. In order of subservency of course)

[DeltaSix]

Enema Bandit

Mail order bride ?...sure, do they take American Express ?:}


D6

[RYAN TCAD]

swh, PLEASE! - iam only referring to the info that is contained within that section which is on the CASA website.

I am not in error - CASA's info contained within their website may be, but there really is nothing wrong with my eyesite.

Just accept that there are a helluva lot of COM/ATPL pilots unemployed. Guarentee its closer to 65 - 70% as opposed to the National of 5.1%.

Cheers!

[swh]

Ryan,

Have a look at this thread (http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=160291&perpage=15&pagenumber=3) lists where 3500-4000 fixed wing ATPL holders are already employed in Australia (6000 total), and many more are overseas in Asia, Middle East, South Pole, Iceland, Europe etc.

I would agree a number of pilots at the lower end of experience level would be unemployed, however at the experienced ATPL level jobs are not difficult to get, just depends how picky you are with moving and pay, which is normally harder at that level due to the attachments like house, kids, and debts.

:ok:

[Yusef Danet]

To answer the post's questions, I am familiar with a chap that came looking for work with 600 hours including a 737 rating. Took a little while but ended up getting a Direct Entry Command at our operation. On the C206.

[v1rotate]

Just wondering how many of the 11,687 pilots are actually working in GA or the Airlines. There must be a whole bunch of ATPL and CPL holders working as Instructors.

Looks like I have no chance of getting a job back home (Melbourne) then. I have only just over 1 hour in Command of Multi Engine aircraft (Duchess) but have over 550 P1/US on the Fokker F27 and over a 1000 Multi Turbine. I never understood the requirement of airlines in Oz to ask for 500 ME Command, what has Single Pilot GA type aircraft got to do with flying Multi-Crew aircraft. Guess I'll stay over here in the UK awhile longer.

[multime]

well he,s got my vote.just comon down.
Welcome to the red carpet world of piston engines!!!.
He,s got to be dreaming.!!
With time comes experience,experience is hard earned knowledge.These are the attributes we seek.
Or simply he,s probably going to stack,kill or at very least annoy a few of our clients.Get a life and crawl before you walk.
Dreaming.
Straight to the pool room with that one!!:ok:

[7gcbc]

multime,

with respect I have to disagree with you, Modern Jets are a team operated affair -> CRM(the words of a friend of mine who is a 747 captain for UAL ring in my ear, he at 59 is by his own words, a manager, a babysitter), I think most HR departments will be looking how they can do their jobs, ie recruit for the minimum, pay the minimum and still provide the minimum service whilst satisfying their Service Levels and basic competence and regulatory risk mitigation.

The easy-win for these organisations is that the CPL/ATPL standards and sim checks (all paid for by the candidate - another delightful HR trend I hear you say) weed out the chaff, and this is irrespective of hours flown. If you can make the exams, and you have the rating, and your face fits, and more importantly your pockets are small, then you're in, irrespective of any hard-yakka you may have done in your previous life.

Ryanair regurarly place low time CPL's with barely de-frosted written ATPL's alongside 10K hour old foxes, and pay in accordance.

Brit Midland do it (fact one of my mates got FO with sub 350), Sleazy-jet do it, SAS do it, The Asians are beginning to do it, its a trend, perhaps not yet in Australia, but do we all honestly think that in 20 years or so, there will not be airports North of Broome that can take modern heavies for all those loverly tourists?

With Supply and demand comes distasteful realisations.