Life after OCUs...?

[PileUp Officer]

How does life change after OCU/OCFs?
During the training pipeline you often hear “This is $h!t” or “I hate the crappy training system, things are so much better when you’re out of the training system” but then again you also hear of all the stress ‘real’ pilots are under and how training is a walk in the park and the best time you’ll have in the air force.

So which is true? Is the training system one big jolly with life afterwards consisting of crappy secondary duties and endless deployments OR is the training system a stress filled, uncertain few years and when on a squadron it’s all piss ups the night before flying, routes and rates?
Obviously these views are very oversimplified but I’d like to know what the old and bold (er) and those who have actually been there reckon on this one?

My specific “hypothetical” question is this:
You’re a young guy rapidly approaching your multis wings. Would it be better, with hindsight, to stay in the air force and fly multis?
OR
PVR and fly with the airlines (assuming you have sponsorship from an airline)?

PUO

[HOODED]

The latter. The RAF is contracting at an ever increasing rate.You will only end up working your socks off across all the sandpits in the world. Good luck which ever way you choose.

[opso]

So which is true? Both! The stress of the trg is replaced with the stress of overstretch, the lack of responsibility leading to the weekend piss-ups is replaced by sqn piss-ups and travel (to the sand pit)...

In short, it's no better, no worse, just different. Then you get married and it's all downhill as your priorities change.

[Fg Off Max Stout]

An assumption of airline sponsorship may result in a costly surprise. There is virtually no airline sponsorship available at the moment and anyone coming to the end of an OCU is likely to be nudging the normal sponsorship age limits anyway.

Despite all that, I'm beginning to think that paying to go civvy is probably a long-term smart move.

Stout

[PileUp Officer]

An assumption of airline sponsorship may result in a costly surprise.

Hence my “hypothetical question" although there are quite a few semi decent schemes out there but pretty none which give full sponsorship.


anyone coming to the end of an OCU is likely to be nudging the normal sponsorship age limits anyway

21 is hardly anywhere near the airline limits!!

PUO

[Fg Off Max Stout]

Well then you're nicely inside the limits, young man. However, a lot of people do four year degrees, have to wait for an IOT slot, go through IOT, hold, do BFT, possibly hold, AFT, hold, OCU and find that by this stage they are nudging the age limits (often 25 or 26).

If you are on an OCU at 21, that's pretty good going in my book.

[Black Shadow]

What on earth was your motivation for joining the Armed Forces in the first instance?

If you have to question whether or not life on the front line is worth it due to rates and routes then I doubt that you're prepared for the realities of Operations, multis or otherwise. My advice is leave now - your motives do not appear to be the correct ones for a long career spent serving your country. Without such motives, you might find that the 'job' willl quickly become too much to bear.

[serf]

sounds like ideal RAF Officer material ! judging by some of the inhabitants on this forum ?

[PileUp Officer]

Sorry to burst your bubble but I think you’ll find very few RAF ‘officers’ these days who are ‘committed’ to their job.
To be completely frank most Officers are bothered about how much money they earn and how cool their job sounds to the chicks!
Very few people are actually concerned about Mess Dress Standards and serving the Queen (Being G W Bush’s poodle in the pursuit of more oil and helping out capitalist f**kers!)

PUO

Ps. My motive for joining the RAF was being a naive 15 year old, thinking I was being patriotic before I realised what the Air Farce and society were actually about!

[Fg Off Max Stout]

Well PileUp, I think for you the answer to your 'hypothetical' question is very clear.

Regards

Stout

[skaterboi]

To be completely frank most Officers are bothered about how much money they earn and how cool their job sounds to the chicks!

What a load of bollocks. Your original question indicates you know nothing of life after an OCU, and I think you'll find that whilst qiuality of life is a very important considertion, 99 out of 100 officers have sufficient professional pride to do a good job, come what may.

I suggest that you are both too immature and lack the required attitude to stay in the RAF and would hate to see you on my Sqn. So I suggest you 'do one' and get lost :mad:

[Pontius Navigator]

You will also find that life after the OCU is more training. For the first 6 months on your sqn you are still under the watchful eye of PTC and the training committees.

Try your little trick and you will no doubt get out of the Air Force after 3 years amortisation. Don't count on flying during that time. And don't expect to keep that shiney pair of wings.

You only get to keep your wings after 6 months on the sqn.

[AllTrimDoubt]

Ditto comments above. I would not wish to burden either my Service nor my Squadron with the likes of you. Your comments are indicative of either:

a. A clever wind-up, or
b. A****wit.

If the latter is true, then may I suggest you **** off and stop wasting your QFI's time.

[PileUp Officer]

Sorry to burst your bubble but I think you’ll find very few RAF ‘officers’ these days who are ‘committed’ to their job. To be completely frank most Officers are bothered about how much money they earn and how cool their job sounds to the chicks! Very few people are actually concerned about Mess Dress Standards and serving the Queen (Being G W Bush’s poodle in the pursuit of more oil and helping out capitalist f**kers!)
PUO
Ps. My motive for joining the RAF was being a naive 15 year old, thinking I was being patriotic before I realised what the Air Farce and society were actually about!

Damn those drunk Prune posts.... again!

However, i still pretty much stand by what I said. A lot of of younger officers just realise that they and their mates are being screwed over by the RAF and think it's only fair to do the same back!
It's not a matter of being immature, just a matter of accepting the job the RAF really does instead of whitewashing it in your mind- that's immature!

Investors in people..? Pah! What a load of b******s!

[skaterboi]

You are correct that Investors in People is a farce, and apart from being a huge waste of cash does nothing 'at the coal face'.

But again, I think you are wrong when you say that people are 'whitewashing their minds' into thinking the job is good. As in any job there are good and bad elements, and whilst yes Tony and his mates are doing their best to undermine the RAF, people aren't stupid! Theres a huge difference between getting on with the job and having pride in what you do rather than liking it. In this day and age the trips out to funny places come around all too often. No-one will look after you, you have to be cunning and use forethought and planning to even try to get the next posting you want.

[PileUp Officer]

I’m not saying that being in the RAF isn’t a good job or having a pop at the people in the RAF. I’m simply saying that a lot of people are effectively, recruited in their teens when their world view is a lot more naive and reasons for joining are a lot more honourable than the reality actually turns out to be.
Maybe it was just me though.

I believe that a lot of officers in the younger generation are simply using the RAF as a means to an end. People asking for advice about joining with this kind of view are often flamed and told they lack the commitment to join the forces but the world of employment has changed for school levers. Modern employees understand that they need to be as ruthless with employers as employers are with them!

I’m not saying I think this is for the best, just pointing it out!

[DESPERADO]

PUO, Sonny, I suggest you bugg@r off and find a 'job' that more suits your clearly prodigious talents.

I am saddened to hear that this is just a 'job' to you and your peers. I have been around a bit longer than you (still a 70's child though), and I still love what I do. Yes there are many things that piss me off, getting dicked around by all sorts of different people is part of life in the services. Another part of life is the genuine pleasure of getting your task done in a professional manner, and doing it with people who will be friends for life because of all that you have put up with. If all that floats your boat is money they I suggest that you are not fit to be an Officer or a member of HM armed services. Take a look around you when you can get your head out of your @rse, you will notice that the world is not revolving around you.

One day, if you wake uo, you may have a number of people who are relying on you to keep them alive. You may be delivering personnel into a hot spot that needs our help to prevent another genocide etc etc. There are opportunities in the forces that you could not even dream of. It is true that we all move on, families, kids etc will eventually change your perspectives, it has mine, but if you make the effort you will have some very rewarding times. If, on the other hand, all you are interested in is financial gain and an easy life, then you are in the wrong career and the person that recruited you must have been lied to.

If you are correct in your assertions about the attitude of most of your peers then I have genuine fears about the future of the RAF.

You say that you are an officer, well dry your eyes and start acting like it - set an example or leave, there is no middle ground.

[serf]

well said desperado ! lets have more people with your outlook on service life.

[c130jbloke]

PUO

If you are struggling with what DESPERADO wrote, try changing it to a really large font size, print it and then take it to your flt cdr. Then ask your mates to hang around outside his office to enjoy the spectacle, as he (rightly) rips your bo**ocks off and then stuffs them up your nostrils !

I have news for you son, we don’t owe you squat. If you feel that the Service has had you over, then stop whinging and vote with your feet.

(Now off to wave my wad at the chicks..)

[Hueymeister]

PUO, how does one so junior get so jaundiced an outlook on the world? Surely having wanted to fly for a long while you should be chomping at the bit to get front line?

It saddens me that the new generation coming into the mob should be so unenthusiastic; I saw the beginnings of it as a Flt Cdr a while back. I agree that times 'they are a changing' and we are having to look out for ourselves more now than ever before, but nonetheless, we need keen as mustard young 'uns to keep the service fresh. If you genuinely feel this way, then do yourself, your future Sqn comrades, your Sqn and the RAF a favour and walk...go and work for an airline with a union that you can join and mank through.

Tschuss.

HM

[Cheers Chief!]

Chicks dig us,
Guys think we're cool.

Influenced me to join!

[StopStart]

Bugger..... I thought it was the other way round....

[PileUp Officer]

Chicks dig us, Guys think we're cool. Influenced me to join!

Me too!
"So young man, why do you wanna join the air force?"
"Chicks dig pilots!"

Bugger..... I thought it was the other way round....

That's the RN! :ok:

[AllTrimDoubt]

PUO - With your outlook and attitude I don't think you have the right to banter with your own Service, let alone the RN.

I refer you to my previous post and urge you to select option b.

Now ziplip sonny.

[average pilot]

PUO. The timings of your posts are interesting, I hope you weren't first wave on Friday. I'll see you at Met on Monday, maybe we can have a chat about the big bad world outside:ok:

[PileUp Officer]

PUO - With your outlook and attitude I don't think you have the right to banter with your own Service, let alone the RN. I refer you to my previous post and urge you to select option b. Now ziplip sonny.

Whoh! I nearly had to resort to emergency banter on reading that!
Just because you don’t agree with my views (which, to be fair and with hindsight, do come across as quite harsh) don’t tell me I can’t banter you! I would’ve thought you’d be used to the ‘gay navy’ banter by now!

Anyway, it wasn’t my intention to start a slanging match. I see your point but don’t agree with it.

PUO

[Safety_Helmut]

PUO

If you take the advice of your peers (and I suspect that I insult them by calling them that, given the D'Head you so obviously are), please don't ever go and fly for any airline I am likely to fly on.

Safety_Helmut

[PileUp Officer]

Gents,
An apology is in order.

The first reply was made with a drunk and very angry head on and things went downhill from there; with hindsight I can see that I have posted a large amount of b*ll*cks and for this I apologise.
I do think the world of employer/employee relations is changing and (some) modern officers hold themselves to different standards to the older generation but in general the armed forces do remain exceptionally committed to their job.
Where else would people travel all over the world to put themselves in danger? Even of the few who disagree with various ‘causes we are fighting for’ (for want of a better phrase) the vast majority continue to do an extremely professional job and of the tiny minority who disagree most take their dissatisfaction up through official channels.
I understand I’ve come across as a total tw@ and this obviously wasn’t the intention . Although I do probably hold (slightly) different standards and values to the majority of officers I’m not (I hope) the total c**t that I’ve portrayed myself to be on here.

Cheers for reading
PUO
:rolleyes: :oh: :ok:

[AllTrimDoubt]

Accepted.

:ok:

[BEagle]

Well said, young man!

However, I can understand and sympathise with your justifiable anger and resentment at the tedious delays in your military flying training.

And do remember that once you've achieved 2000 hours total military flying time, your path to civil commercial licences will be much, much simpler and cheaper. It's a retention incentive to keep you 'in' until that time in your life!

Incidentally, ba are now recruiting people direct from Oxford and Jerez whilst they're still under training.

[Pontius Navigator]

PUP, based on your first post I guess that you are still at the stage of being b*ggered around by experts.

Once you get passed the OCU the amateurs take over. By that I mean the schools and OCUs have been b*ggering people about for longer. On the sqns it is often their first time.

On the sqn you will take a lot of responsibility for your own actions (remember I said b*ggered around by amateurs of which you will be but one).

Another difference is that in the training system any sortie lost is a sortie that will be reprogrammed again and again. On a sqn any sortie lost will never be flown again. This means having taken responsibility for the sortie planning you will be keen to get out and fly it. You might be able to pull it out of the bag another day but don't bank on it.

[markerboy]

PUO

All I can say is, you fit the stereotypical image of a wet behind the ear officer, that us knockers are supposed to look up to. You and your peers are supposedly the people to lead us forward to a new era. All you seem to be doing is joining the RAF with the wrong outlook from the start. Some people would swap their right arm for the chance to become a pilot, and you're winging before even making it to the sqn.

Dry 'em!!!

[Need for Speed!]

Gents,

I am only a young pup myself, having been out of Cranwell just over a year and having just finished EFT in the past few months. However, I must say that not all ‘wet behind the ears’ young officers share the views of PUO.

Whilst I would have to agree with PUO that many young officers are in the service for:
a) The money (it might not be much but at 19 I earn more than most of my mates from school)
b) The chicks (they do dig it)
c) To be an airline pilot as quickly as possible (although no desire of mine)

I feel I must stress that this is certainly not the motivation for all of us. I personally am proud to be an officer in the Royal Air Force, I love going to work with that (very thin) braid on my shoulder, I am looking forward to the opportunities to ‘lead from the front’ (for want of a better phrase), but most of all I am looking forward to 37 years in the service.

Many of you may see this as a young and naive view, you may be right, but maybe you need to be young and naïve to not let the bad aspects of flying training tarnish your view of the future.

Maybe my views will change as I progress through the training system; I would like to think not. All I know is that I have spent the last 6 months getting paid to go flying and I am looking forward to the next 6 months holding with the UN in Tokyo. Meanwhile, my school mates are working in Pizza Hut.

The service has given a fantastic opportunity to a lucky few young people, and shattered the dreams of many, many more. I guess I appreciate I’m one of the lucky few, and I am sure, so do many others.

NFS

[grey_not_green]

.....mentalist..........

[BEagle]

markerboy, it takes a lot to admit your failures in public; PuO did and I think that took some doing. So cut him some slack, I would venture to suggest?

Need for Speed - sounds like you've got the Right Stuff, chap. Enjoy your TypHoon/J35 or whatever, you lucky git!

[Binky1969]

Boys, boys, "the chicks love you" - Get real! They just want to know what's under the flying suit and lets face it, those long johns are a real turn off!

Seriously, any bird with a brain probably earns as much or even more than you any way so (this is for the younger willy wavers amongst you in particular) I suggest you accept that you do an important job and take pride in doing it to the best of your ability. People (civilians) are intrigued by you because you need to give 100% commitment in a job like yours and do something far more scary than play with other peoples money. You get moved around all over the place, have to go away to less than desirable holiday destinations, and when you hit your mid-30's realise that all your old mates probably earn twice what you do.

If you love flying and the buzz you get away on ops it will be hard to replicate this in the 'real world' and no amount of money can make up for that. You should genuinely be proud of what you do. Everyone feels disillussioned about their jobs at some time in their career - but few can say they've really done something that counted even if at times you may question what you are being asked to do.

The former Mr Binky was a surgeon (believe me when I say the chicks did love him) with an ego the size of England and the current Mr Binky is a RAF pilot. An older (and definitely wiser) lady at the Xmas draw told me I was better off with a 'hero' and although I had to try hard not to be sick at that moment, I did take her point in the spirit it was meant (current Mr B was literally just back from the desert). That's how you lot are viewed by the public, even if at times you feel you are being messed around and not appreciated. The grass is not always greener.

[markerboy]

BEagle

Why is winging about the job he hsn't even started to do yet, airing his failures?? The man obviously wants to screw the mob for all it's worth, then go be the autopilot engager!! If the case then why join in the first place?:suspect:

[BEagle]

Suggest you read his post of 03 0624 April:

"Gents,
An apology is in order.

The first reply was made with a drunk and very angry head on and things went downhill from there; with hindsight I can see that I have posted a large amount of b*ll*cks and for this I apologise.."

OK?

[5 Forward 6 Back]

I am looking forward to the next 6 months holding with the UN in Tokyo.

So who'd you chat to; I'd like to avoid another 10 months doing an SAC's job! ;)

[TurbineTooHot]

NFS,

Did the old man organise that for you or did you sort it yourself?

Do have fun.

TTH.

PUO,

Buddy. A stern clip around the ear from me.


Dudes.

Being a mil pilot is the best way to fight a war, should it come to that. For me its not all about the flying.

Livestrong

TTH

[kippermate]

I'm not that old. Nor am I related to NFS. However, I did help organize his UN hold, and while he may be doing an SAC's job, although I suspect not, he will be doing it half-way around the world with opportunities to get involved with stuff that his mates in Pizza Hut could never imagine.

Good Luck in the Far East and enjoy Linton when you get back.

:ok:

kipper

[StopStart]

Sounds nice - what are the opportunities for getting off the front line and back into holding???

:p