Cathay Career S/O's? [Archive]

busdriver

30th Mar 2005, 14:19

".......Six JFO courses scheduled to commence in March and April have been cancelled. Of course, this is disappointing to those who would have been on these courses, and it has the overall effect of slowing down promotion, but the priority right now is to stabilise the training rosters. Since the cancellation of the JFO upgrades means that we do not need to replace S/Os, six S/O induction courses have also been cancelled......"

So according to the rumours in "the street"; S/O's are in for the long haul, up to 4 years now. Joiners in Jan 2003 are expected to upgrade to JF/O in Jan 2007! Thats 1458 days of being treated like a zero on a contract.

All that we are good for seems to be "SAN FRANCISCO, SAN FRANSICO, CX 880 Calling SAN FRANSICO on xxxx" and that the man in the Left seat can "burn out" the S/O while he gets his beauty sleep

The mind boggles, and I have to ask if I made the right choice - joining in the "dark days" (which I still get hounded for at least once in every 10 sectors), then SARS and now this!

I used to love flying - now I ask my self what is it exactly that I do?

gza

30th Mar 2005, 19:02

Does not soud like a lot of fun...... the S/O courses that got cancelled....when we're they suppose to start as I know some courses started in March and some more will start in April.

Gza

SkyCruiser

31st Mar 2005, 01:00

Well,

I am an SO on the 400 and when I joined I was told 18 months to upgrade, I natually took this with a box of salt, but at least we have a job that pays well and give us a great lifestyle.

There is nothing we can do regarding our upgrades, so lets get on with it. Enjoy the 15 - 18 days off a month, it ain't going to last.

Cheers

:ok:

Flying Bagel

31st Mar 2005, 05:09

As Silberfuchs mentioned, the pay isn't really a big issue. I suppose the issue is how quickly you want to get into the seat, and have something call you a retard.

I echo the sentiments of enjoying the lifestyle while you still have it. It seems frustrating, but then again, there are pros and cons to it all. I never found wearing one bar on my sleeve to be an impediment, afterall, it's better than having none.

VR-HFX

31st Mar 2005, 06:29

Busdriver

It will all change with the KA situation...then you will wish you could have hung on to the S/O lifestyle a little longer rather than chasing NDB's all day around the Middle Kingdom.

BMM389EC

31st Mar 2005, 23:16

It all depends what you want. I used to love my flying and enjoy my career. Now it's just a job. I did'nt join to be a SO for 4 years. Yes, the money and rosters are good but that's not the most important for me. I want to fly and am considering looking elsewhere.

flyingkiwi

1st Apr 2005, 01:21

I know its frustrating.

Im in that boat as well, will be 3.5+ years buy the time i hopefully get in the right seat, however Silberfuchs right its the best roster in the company providing the best lifestyle, if you want to do a t/o or landing go rent a lightie on one of your many days off. Im doing as much travel as i can... dreading the days when i have to work for a living......

Oh yeah being on the bus certainly helps.....the crews treat you really well....

SkyCruiser

1st Apr 2005, 04:19

Quote

"Oh yeah being on the bus certainly helps.....the crews treat you really well...."

Errr, no complaints from the 400 fleet.

kavu

3rd Apr 2005, 08:45

Okay 6 S/O's induction courses have been cancelled, so what happens to the new S/O's that have just quit there last job to start on the induction course?

What about those who are waiting for S/O induction courses?

Why is there a wait for both the JFO and SO courses if they need FO's?

Is this due to the training captains taking a break from training?

Any further comment,

cheers
Kavu

begbe

3rd Apr 2005, 19:55

Is this rumor or fact? Have FO and SO classes been cancelled?
I am scheduled to start in Adelaide in May and have not heard anything from anyone.

If this is true, then I am f#$!@#d, I have already given notice at work, to my landlord.

Say it aint so!!

dhoonk

4th Apr 2005, 00:36

Alright! Everyone stop panicking and take a deep breath...

If you have already been given a course date and have signed and submitted your agreement, they will honour your course date.

The cancelled courses are, as far as I know, the ones planned for later in the year.

So if you are waiting to hear from them about a start date for an SO course, then it might be a longer wait than previously estimated.

Colonel W E Kurtz

6th Apr 2005, 19:01

SilberfuchS

Quote:

'Facts:

After 2 yrs you get the same Housing as an FO anyway.'

This means that a locally employed year 2 SO takes home LESS THAN HALF THE PAY OF A DE SO.

So why don't you shut up before mouthing off about the SO's that are making millions and spare a thought for the ones that are still living at home with their parents because they can't afford a shoebox.
:yuk:

flyingkiwi

7th Apr 2005, 10:23

Aussie

7th Apr 2005, 10:48

FlyingKiwi,

well said mate,
i couldnt have said it better myself.

Aussie

Colonel W E Kurtz

7th Apr 2005, 17:24

British Airways
Qantas
South African Airways
Emirates

But to name a few...

These airlines all have cadet pilot schemes. A BA 744 ex-cadet FO gets paid exactly the same as a DE 744 FO.

This is the case with all the other airlines listed above.

So why the hell does Cathay pay its Locally Employed Pilots half what it pays its DE pilots for doing exactly the same job? It is the only airline in the world that does so.

Silberfuchs, my point is that you are saying that it is ok to be an SO for 4 years because of the large housing allowance, this does not apply LEPS.

Also how is someone from HK supposed to get a job in GA? There is no GA in HK.

Concerning Vol 1, How is a LEP supposed to get adaquete rest in the middle of three long haul flights in a row when they are living in a tiny flat with their family?

The Hong Kong Government has adopted common terms for expatriate and local staff, and now pays both a common level of housing and education allowances.

Oasis

7th Apr 2005, 18:25

Yes all those foreign airlines have cadet scemes...And dont pay their pilots housing allowance.
In Hong Kong cx has to attract foreigners to come to hong kong. Without the housing allowance they would be unable to.
For the cadets there is free education, something most foreign carries do not offer...no training bond...no years and years of flying around in GA, dodgy airplanes etc etc.

Call me crazy....

Cadets have the better end of the deal...

ps. if you country doesn't have GA, you move to a country that does. Simple.

psps. cx is not the government...and btw they like to pay themselves up to 2.5 times more than similar jobs would pay in the private sector (with your tax-money), so I wouldn't use the government as an example of common sense!

flyingkiwi

8th Apr 2005, 14:21

And the bottom line is that the expats are needed, there is no way Cx can currently crew its need for pilots with cadets, so they have to have something to entice the expats to come.

Truckmasters

8th Apr 2005, 22:01

Don't know too much about the CX cadet program. However a quick comment on the Qantas one. All it entitles you too is a priority path to employment. You have to use one of their schools (cost is significantly more than a normal flying school - remember you are paying, not the company). You are then on on industry placement until you have sufficient experience to be selected for a jet conversion. If the industry suffers a downturn, your job with the mainline can be delayed for years in some cases previously. When this happens you still are not earning a salary.
So yes you get normal pay rates when you join the main company however to get their you have outlayed a significant portion of your own money first (in the order of $100,000 AUD)

sleeper

14th Apr 2005, 10:25

To put things in perspective:

Until very recently KLM second officers had to stay the full 51/2 years as second offficers before upgrading to first officer (on 737's).
The pay was the same though.

A/T less

18th Apr 2005, 06:59

it's really sad that you have to be on a certain fleet to be treated well..

morning mungrel

19th Apr 2005, 05:20

Well, even if it is 4 yrs as a S/O, please, WHERE DO I SIGN???........

CPX

25th Apr 2005, 05:34

Oasis
'Emirates, BA, QF
Yes all those foreign airlines have cadet scemes...And dont pay their pilots housing allowance.'

Emirates cadets have no bond, and transition directly after GA training to the A330 or B777 as FO's. Identical salary as expats for the same job.

The requirement for Command is 6k hours which takes ~ 10 years for a cadet.

Emirates cadets get the same housing COS as expats, a rent-free supplied 3 br appartment if they are not married, or a supplied 3-4 br villa if married. All services, utilities, rates, local telephone service paid for by EK.

When they want to build a house, the Dubai government gives Dubai born local residents a block of land, and a 25 yr interest free loan of Aed 500k. Emirates also gives a 4 yr interest free loan of Aed 250k. Abu Dhabi born local residents do even better.

A Dubai born local resident can retire after 15 years service on 70 % full salary for life, or after 20 years service 100% salary for life. Not sure if this is indexed. (Sure beats the EK expat COS where the company provides 12% salary to be invested!)

Bokkenrijder

15th May 2005, 16:42

Just a question for those SO´s participating on this thread.

What level of experience did you have when joining CX as SO? Is it possible to enter directly as JFO?

Where is the boundary (for as far as hours, jet time etc is concerrned) between SO and JFO when joining?

As you might guess I´m concidering applying to CX.

Thanks for any constructive answers! :ok:

BlueEagle

15th May 2005, 23:59

If you work your way through the three pages of this (http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=153757) thread you should get a fair idea of what the minimum experience currently being accepted for each post is.

Flying Bagel

16th May 2005, 03:08

I know its off topic but theres nothing stopping a local HK chinese person going off spending a fortune to do all his licences, waiting in GA for 8 years on no pay, the comuters for 2 years on almost no pay and then apply as a DE SO. With no gaurentee of being accepted at the end of it.

I suppose there are many ways to look at it. For your average person living in HK (over half the cadets have never lived overseas), there is no such thing as a job in General Aviation, because there really isn't any. So for most, their only chance is to immigrate and move abroad, which does not happen with the flick of a lightswitch.

Competition in GA is fierce enough, and I've seen firsthand that a) women now get hired over men, and b) white guys get hired over everyone else. It doesn't apply everywhere, but I reckon that, for a local Chinese to crack it in the aviation industry, there really isn't such a thing as a fair shake.