Army Rotary Training

[FMM910]

What truth is there in the rumour that Army Fixed Wing Training is to stop and all through Rotary is to be started?

If so, is it a good idea?

[KENNYR]

Someone on a fishing expedition?????.....Journo maybe??????

[FMM910]

No... just somebody whose job depends on the Army continuing EFT. The Army is keeping it close to their chest despite the majority of QFIs who think it's a bad idea.

I understand that at the moment a Course is currently doing a few hours observing in a Rotary (not any hands on!!) before going to Shawbury without any EFT.

[MightyGem]

This has been talked about for a while now(a year or so?). Historically is has been seen as a cheap way to get students used to a flying environment and to teach them navigation, talking on ther radio, airmanship etc, before the higher workload of learning flying rotary.

While the whole of the APC was being done at Middle Wallop this was fine. I believe that part of the reasoning to go all rotary is to try to cut down some of the disruption to students, and their families, lives due to moving around the country for different parts of the course.

[jayteeto]

The reason is very simple and this is pukka gen. You will get a pilot into a front line helicopter weeks earlier than before. The current system takes too long since we went purple.

[BlueEagle]

Wouldn't trade my sixty five hours in a Chipmunk for anything!:ok:

[KENNYR]

I would most certainly have struggled more on the rotary phase of the course back in 78 if it had not been for the chipmunk phase. I firmly believe that the old system of fixed wing, basic rotary and advanced rotary worked very well and gave the student more of a chance to succeed. (I taught on basic and advanced ).

[Spanish Waltzer]

This exact topic has been argued here on pprune recently.

Jayteeto has it spot on with the reason......

MightyGem - do you really believe that the disruption to the students and their families was a real consideration in all this...only perhaps as it would reduce the costs of moving them. Cynical I know but really don't believe the army is going that soft.

[BEagle]

Of course if all trainng - fixed wing, basic and advanced rotary - was all carried out at the same base - Middle Wallop, for example - then the cost and disruption of moving students around would be even less...

Surprised that no-one had thought of that before...:E

[Tourist]

I must admit to being surprised. You mean they actually train them.
Here's me giving them the benefit of the doubt thinking they were gifted beginners.;)

[AllTrimDoubt]

"You mean they actually train them.
Here's me giving them the benefit of the doubt thinking they were gifted beginners"


:D :D

Beautiful...just priceless!

:ok:

[Jeep]

The US Army do not put their rotary pilots through any fixed wing training prior to starting helicopter training.

It will be a cost saving, and reduce the time on the pilots course. All very attractive ideas.

I recommend that instead of the the fixed wing hours, all student pilots should be forced to purchase MS flight sim, a laptop and joystick, much cheaper.

Grading followed by straight to helicopters, stroke of admin genius.

Personally I think it a bad idea. I found those few hours of chippy at the beginning extremely valuable.

[Slow Hands]

While all no doubt enjoy the fixed wing element, the studes pitch up at Shawbury having dumped much of the stuff taught at JEFTS. Especially the cooks, LI and pioneers!! Reasons various.....
Better to give a few hours hands on/talking to ATC and let them loose learning to fly RW. At Wallop. In their own DUA!!;)

[busz]

I'm very surprised to read such threads.

The quote saying it takes longer to get a trained aviator is significantly longer is rubbished by the incredible holds they receive when they reach CTT.

What's the point in sending them to Wallop as quickly as poss only to wait for 5 months for a conversion.

The fixed wing system allows transferrable skills to be developed at a cheaper rate than it would do on rotary. The only fact of the matter worth considering is that the budget is and always will continue to shrink.

It is without doubt true to say that the training systems produces the goods for all services. If it wasn't so, then there would not be ab-initio Merlin and Apache students, which they are.

The Army will do its experiement and will make it work, because someone up top has said it will work. It's a sad day if that's the case, because although it takes longer, today's aircrew hit the FL at a higher standard.

[FMM910]

Just to bring this back to the fore; Any further news on progress. I understand that the two courses are absolutely brilliant! No special selection of course.....

[Low Ball]

The Army was forced into considering all through training (and not for the first time either) when the MOD (Treasury) refused to keep the Chipmunk flying in all 3 services (maybe 2 I'm not sure about the RN). It was beginning to be crippling keeping them going and a finite date was put on their last day! The RAF still had access to Basic FW (Pup) and the RN had the Grob if I recall. The Army had nothing - what the Army had less of was uncommitted money and as a reasonabley senior rabbit in the hutch I was tasked with finding a RW replacement for basic fixed wing flying. We were within an ace of signing up for a COMO R-22 contract with about 40-50 hours per student when DHFS became the flavour of the month (the third time we (All 3 services) had been exposed to this treasury pressure in my flying service but this time there was no escaping.

I am now well out of the system but it is fair to say that in terms of time to wings, disruption for families and students and continuity to mention a few the Army did not come out well from the Tri Service Training. Not withstanding that I'm sure some Treasury Gnome will be able to explain it was good vfm!

LB