Avalon Airshow? is it worth it

[Lukeatme]

Hi

Just trying to get opinions if the Avalon Airshow still cuts it for value, interest and flying displays.

Went on a trade day and Friday and am not sure if it is International as the organizers state? love to hear/see some feedback. (I am on the neutral side as of this time.)

[KLN94]

I thought it was very good, except the weather was bleak on the Thursday I visited. I thought most of the foreign aircraft manufacturers and businesses were represented so I don't know what you mean by questioning whether it was international. It was and that was obvious. I look forward to next time and highly recommend it.

[gaunty]

I made a last minute decision to go on Wed late, managed to snag some cheap fares, well $860 return from Perth via CBR, biggest problem was accomodation. i.e. none in Mel.
Managed to snag a spare bed with an old mate there with a large US aircraft manufacturer.

Definitely International and very professionally done by them including the Airservices, CASA and Vic and QLD Govt stands.
The locals need to spend a bit more time and money if they want to be noticed amongst the seriously good professionallly done displays.

There is a lesson to be learned by the OEMs who didn't display aircraft in the message they sent to their prospective clients.:sad:

If it is OK for Gulfstream (the beautiful G550 & G200 big iron) Bombardier (Global Express and Lear 60), Dassault (Falcon 900), Raytheon (Horizon, 800 and King Air) and the Defense guys at Boeing (C17, B757, Defender), EADS, BAE, etc etc a dozen assorted military helicopter, to bring their big iron stuff for us to clamber over and gawk at why not for them. :rolleyes:

The latest Diamond, Cirrus, Airvan and many new GA types and so on.

Old home week really, caught up with many old OEM and Regulatory friends and made a whole bunch of new ones. Wall to wall uniforms, including PRC, Korea, Indon, Vietnam, Tom Clanct would have had a ball.

Well done. so far.

Flying Display ??

The trade day Thurs was either not enough aircraft or too spread out. 5-10 minutes at a time with nothing happening in front of the crowd is really boring.

Worse on Friday with the night spectacular running late with some of the displays running twice as long as they needed.

There were some seriously spectacular displays, Jurgy the Lithuanian and seriously mad aerobatic guy rewriting the laws of Physics in his 400 HP Sukhoi Unlimited was worth the whole $860 the F15-16-18 and C17 were a bonus and my fave of all time the F111 never disappoints.

I could have sworn the F111 guys were younger than my children.

Overall great show but needed IMHO some serious tightening up of the flying display.

My 2 bob says, run the display time to the number of displays not try to fill 3 hours by stretching out what was maybe 2 hours of display material.
How many times do you need to watch a bunch of parachuters with Aussie flags.
An ultralight thing after a thunder and lightning fast jet doesn't do the former justice.
I've seen much better with much less spectacular equipment.
The ingredients were there but Mr Barnum was on holidays. :sad:

[tipsy]

Me mate, Disco Stu came home yesterday after 4 days at Avalon.

He is still trying to adequately describe what Jurgy did with the SU-31, all he has actually said so far is "s..t I don't believe that!"

He (DS) obviously enjoyed catching up with friends, former students and many fellow aviation professionals. He is waxing lyrical about the future of diesel as a powerplant for GA aircraft, I just hope his mate with Airtourer up the road keeps his hangar locked or I'm sure DS will have a new diesel engine in it in no time.

DS couldn't stand the influx of the public:yuk: :yuk: on Friday afternoon so he said his farewells and jumped the jet back to GG and me:ok:

I'm sure if he was allowed (and not the subject of a petty ban) he would write a full and comprehensive report. :8

He might even stop saying "s..t I don't believe that!":confused: :confused:

tipsy
purrrrrrrr :zzz: :zzz:

[triadic]

A good show.

Agree with comments above re the timing of the flying display... however I understand that the present timing is designed to keep the payers happy by having something flying all day during the public days... I would prefer the start to be at 1.00pm or so and be 3 solid hours of non stop activity.

The night show on Friday was too long and did not have enough acts. Connie, F111, the glider and the wall of fire could have all been done just after sunset, and not dragged on to 2130hrs.

The highlight.... the Kiwi 757 and Jurky in the Su31. It is great to see an airliner doing things that you don't normally see one do... after all that is what an airshow is all about.

Oh' an afterthought... As far as I am aware there were no heavyweights from the Federal Government there, and of course the Minister continues to prove his lack of interest in aviation at any level.

[Lukeatme]

Guy's I have only asked the question because have heard on local radio stations that people thought they were ripped off, I agree about the flying being a bit spasmodic but through the average persons eyes the static display seems to be lost .

Gaunty you have described it in an excellent manner, I think the same way as you but could not put it into words as you did, the aero's by Jurgis whew what a master!!

[Sunfish]

I was there Tuesday and Friday.

I agree with Gaunty, and others, the trade display was awesome and there were some very serious heavy hitters from the U.S. and elsewhere talking to numerous defence types from all over Asia.

I liked the Cirrus stand, especially when it rained on Tuesday. The diesels looked good, and no sign of any competitive response from Continental or Lycoming.

The flying display was a little disappointing. All the old favourites were there, but nothing except for some magic acrobatics!!

I left early on Friday, but heard from others that the night show was a disappointmen. The delays were apparently caused by a Jetstar Arrival and Departure that didn't exactly thrill the crowd.

[Deaf]

Was there on Friday and skipped the night display.

The trade part was good. Air display not so good, heard that they didn't really have a program but were winging it to some extent.

[John Eacott]

ISTM the public voted with their feet yesterday (Sunday): the stream of early leavers back to the car park started at 14:00, and was a flood by 15:00 :(

Certainly, the trade days and the manufacturer's stands were as good as you would want, but the flying display......."pedestrian" would be a polite term for it.

Highlights: Su31, C17, Kiwi 757, and the heavy metal.
Waste of time: percussion pyrotechnics out of synch with the passing aircraft, massive delays between flypasts, and the Friday display in its entireity.

[compressor stall]

Was there from Monday thru Sunday except for Sat. Glad it's over...a bit talked out!

Only thing worth it on friday night was watching the super connie at night. Magic. Jetscar got some good mileage out of it though. :yuk:

As for jugie's aero's, yep, he's rewritten aerodynamics, and physics!

Good to see the Catalina flying in the flesh.

A good show, but not a patch on the 91? one with the Ruskies...

[morning mungrel]

So, he hadn't shut up about Jurgy even after he got home tipsy? Kinda what he said at the time, too!! Have to agree with Gaunty I think. (Sorry i missed you there Gaunty) Trade stuff was not too bad, some glaring omissions, eh Gaunty? Flying display? So So. Seen better Avalons, that's for sure. The hospitality at the Shell Chalet? Excellent!!!! Just a general question tho, I've NEVER seen DJ have anything to do with Avalon. I really think they are missing out on an opportunity here. What say the rest of you?

[grusome]

Bit offended about "winging" the flying display!!!!! Months of negotiation and weeks of planning were involved. However, I recognise that many people who comment on this forum have zero knowledge or credibility. Four days of strong easterlies didn't help.

Friday night was a disappointment to us - we lost four acts, all flying pyros, due to the strong easterly crosswind. Everyone did their best to get airborne, even tried the aerochutes off 09, but to no avail.

The main problem was learning to integrate up to 12 RPT movements into the program. The CASA requirement that the airline maintain IFR, with consequent buffers, was the cause of most if not all the pauses that happened. Once an aircraft was inside Ripley the airfield and adjacent airspace had to be cleared. With a linear program it is very hard to move acts forward or back at short notice to accommodate slack estimates, and unfortunately an RPT operation doesn't (and can't) work to the minute.

From my point of view, the public did indeed vote with their feet - and they keep coming back in bigger and bigger numbers.

Because the current regimes of safety law, OHS, insurance and litigation are causing most organisers to abandon the genre, leaving ASDU as one of the few event managers even able to get the approvals, Avalon is almost the only opportunity Victorians have to see a show locally.

Have a nice coupla years, and see you in 07.

Gru

[Woomera]

Mr grusome

However, I recognise that many people who comment on this forum have zero knowledge or credibility.

brought the rest of your comments undone, and your slip is showing.:p

I have over the past decade (I see you have been around since 1999) on PPRuNe become privy, by their own admission, to the background and experience of most of the people who here have taken the time to offer their views some at significant expense, either to themselves, their employers and even I suspect to the Airshow organisers, by actually being at the show. $40 per day plus meals of coke, burger etc at $15 and so on.

Most if not all of them would have already "known" of the difficulties faced, some with considerable airshow planning and experience of their own and you should feel embarrased, but then your legal background might suggest that would be a difficult emotion for you to express. :rolleyes:

Were "the crowd" advised of the problems with the "missing" acts?
There were, I understand, some Jetstar advertising announcements during Jetstar arrivals and departures but no explanation as to the reason the airspace was closed to display for this reason. I can't imagine why not? ;) :sad:

Many including myself have been to similar shows in Europe and the US operating in a similar environment and occasionally in appalling weather, they might have had to revert to Plan B then C now and then but the "show" goes on.

A smart organisation would take the constructive criticism by experienced aviation people on board and try harder next time.

I'll leave it to John Eacott and gaunty to have the last say for me.

but the flying display......."pedestrian" would be a polite term for it.

I've seen much better with much less spectacular equipment.
The ingredients were there but Mr Barnum was on holidays.

[Critical Reynolds No]

The Avalon organisers and Announcers need the broom put to them. Same old same old every year and getting worse. Maybe a trip to RIAT or another large airshow maybe the go. Not sure how Avalon 2003 got voted the 3rd best show of the year as we were constantly reminded. Wonder how 2005 will rate? Tyabb was better and is in Victoria.

The announcers made too many mistakes and the music on the field was to loud. We want to hear the machines not the knobs. If you don't know what you are talking about. SHUT UP!

Ok we've seen the F-16 and F-15 to much now, we all know they have more powerew than the entire starting grid of the Indy 500 and help the USA in their Global reach policy blah blah. How about some new stuff?

The night show. Should be stopped just after sunset with the Connie. How crap was it? Don't care if the East wind blew hard. It was still boring.

Plus there should be no rumour sheet released to drum up business, out of all the aircraft that were going to attend (and fly) how many did? 20%.

Enough ranting. I'll still go back to catch up with the old crew and that's basically all it is now days.

Peace!

[John Eacott]

However, I recognise that many people who comment on this forum have zero knowledge or credibility

Grusome,

Sector Controller from 1992 - 2001 (plaques proudly on the wall of the office :D ), display pilot 2001. This year, only attended 4 days, Tuesday, Friday, Saturday and Sunday.

The weather at the weekend was lovely, though :ok:

[Lukeatme]

Grusome

I asked the question and have had some very good answers put on the forum, but I would not under any circumstances attack the people for the comments as you have as some sound to me as they are very knowlegable and can express themselves, this in my opinion would be good feedback for any airshow organizer!!

The only thing I disagree with is the great spectacle of the sky divers with the flags, reckon it looked very impressive.

[djpil]

Good to see Gippsland Aeronautics there with many examples of their product. Interesting to see Whitney's Boomerang design - good luck, Bill.
The 300 hp CT-4 gave a modest but neat display, I guess few would have noticed that this one had the extra horsepower.

Good to catch up with Jurgis Kairys, Pip Borrman and others - my only reason (well, apart from business) to attend the trade days. From my point of view, all the right people were there to progress business activities.

I heard that the Careers Expo on the weekend was poorly attended - much improvement in its organisation needed for next time, happy to assist.

However, I recognise that many people who comment on this forum have zero knowledge or credibility (Display pilot at Avalon some years ago)

[Rudder]

Overall I thought it was OK however Friday night was a dissaster.

They really do need to get back to a punchy two hour display with lots of noise on the public days.

On a personal note, I would have liked to have seen the Antarctic Division CASA 212 on skis fly. It certianly would have been another unique aircraft for the show and talking to the crew one of only two in the world.

[Chadzat]

I probably fit into the catagory described by Grusome so you can take my opinion with a grain of salt! (attended all three public days 2001, 2005 and have PPL)

Flying in this year proved to be easy, arriving at the right times traffic wise seems to help. Shuttle buses made everything that much less stressful.

Lara campsite had no where near the amount of facilities required. If I am going to Avalon 07 then I'm steering clear of the public campsite.

The Friday night FLYING displays were fantastic, I agree that for a non-pilot it may have appeared disorganised but in the organisers defense I did hear the commentator mention that the problems were due to the strong winds.

Obviously an overhaul of the whole airshow would be nice but can any of you post a list of brand new acts (ie new aircraft that we haven't seen in Australia before) long enough to provide a decent flying display? I think not. Short of the JSF, F-22 and Sukhoi's its really all been done before BECAUSE thats the aircraft that are in service at the moment, I'd imagine its pretty hard to have to work with functioning airforces that operate on limited budgets to get them to fly half way around the world for a 3 day display.

The only major criticism I would have is the outrageous cost of things at Avalon, the Gold Pass tickets are expensive enough for a meal to be included I would say. Sure you get a cap, ticket holder and program but those items at cost price would not take too much away from the ticket price surely! Consequently as we camped at Lara for the three days we brough in pre-packed food for meals as $12+ for a small meal and drink is just rediculous.

[Soulman]

Have to agree with Morning Mongrel - the Shell Chalet was excellent. Pretty p*ss poor show from the Yanks, guy on the Super Hornet sim told me 'political' reasons had caused them to withdraw some of their heavier metal.

What's got me buggered is how they can justify flying a B-52 from Darwin for a single fly by at 1000ft and then back to the NT.

Loved the Kiwi 75' - certainly proved that you can take the man out of the fighter but not the fighter out of the man. Would have been good to see the Wedgetail reef it around like our Tasman friends.

Shame that the Pig left his beacon active on the Friday night passes. Thought he came inbound lights-out in '03 - made for a more interesting reaction from those unaware of his approach.

Would like to know what some of the JQ blokes thought of landing in front of a crowd like Saturday's - must be a bit of a highlight for an airline jockey?

All in all, it was just another airshow - and I hope '07 is a whole lot better.

Soulman

[Hornetboy]

Chadzat,

6 days wasn't it?

Having been to the last 5 or so consecutive Avalon Airshows, I have still not yet seen....
- F-14
- Harrier
- Jaguar
- F-5
- F-4
- A-4 (yes, some are still out there)
- Anything French

Of course B-2's and F-117's may be out of the question. But could they not at least have brought back the Tornado or B-1B, or Super Hornet? Or some of the attack helicopters? Not even a show from the Tiger? How about the MiG-17's/19's and Vampires we used to have? Where have so many of the crowd-pleasers gone?

2001 was the best of them all. Although at least we got to see the Aussie hornet fly this time round...

Add to that everything already mentioned, I decided one day was enough this year.

[tipsy]

Hornet boy, the F-117a was actually there, it was in stealth mode and all you could see was the "empty" spot where it was parked.




I know, bad joke.
wadda you expect from a cat!

tipsy
cough, cough, blasted furball

[TheNightOwl]

I attended on Sunday, and was amazed at the lack of light a/c on the East airfield. Straight in at 07:45, and start-up and taxy with NO delay on leaving.
If this was indicative of the overall attendance, then I cannot believe the numbers as claimed.

The trade displays were very impressive, and I enjoyed catching up with the AN DC3 crew again.

The flying display, overall, I found somewhat disappointing. There was a terrible "sameness" to it, possibly understandable in light of the difficulty in getting "new iron" to attend.
How many times do I have to be told how the F-15 is the saviour of the free world? How many times do I need to learn the climb rate of an F-16, or that the pilot is pulling a 9G turn, and its physiological effects?

For sheer flying ability, and the ultimate "shock-and-awe", then Jurgis Whatsisname was impossible to beat!
His display was all I heard spoken about round me, he was the highlight of the day for me.

I didn't go Friday evening, I've seen one, that was enough.

I didn't stay for the F-111 display, its ability to turn fuel into noise is legendary, and I was expecting a delayed departure from the East airfield, but I gather I didn't miss anything I haven't seen before.

I was disappointed at the lack of British and Russian hardware, the solitary Nimrod quietly sneaking in to park was a telling story, to me. It may well be that they were invited, but declined for whatever reason, but I was looking forward to a re-awakening of memories of the Tornado display of a couple of years ago.

In summary, will I be there in '07? On balance, considering what I saw, I don't think so.
That, in itself, is a revelation to me, I have been an aircraft nut all my life and can't quite accept that I was, unbelievably, quite bored with the display. If the success of the overall event is measured by the Trade days, then I'm sure the claim of success is valid but, if they are claiming the flying display a success then, with one notable exception, I would disagree.

Kind regards,

TheNightOwl.:ok:

[Obiwan]

What would you like to see at Avalon? Just a wishlist....

F-117
B-2
Eurofighter/Typhoon
F-22
A-380 (one day)
B787 (one day)

[OWAP]

Hornetboy,

There were a number of French Helicopters, or dont they count!

:D

[ibaker]

Ok, reading these posts I felt obliged to add a comment. I had never been to an airshow and are fairly new to aviation having just obtained my Pilots Cert in LSA's but I was "blown away" by Avalon. I spent both Sat & Sun there and I was truly amazed at the airshow of which I felt there wasn't many gaps between them at all (except for the jetstar problem and the over promotion of them).

This makes me think that the organisers have a big problem. How to deliver a show that would take enormous project management skills (and I take my hat off to them for that - could you organise a multi million dollar event like that - can you imagine the organisation that this show would take and being purely subjective to the weather and so many different political suppliers?) and keep it interesting for both new comers and experienced show goers?

I would have liked to have seen more LSA there and more local content in the tents.

[Lurk R]

http://www.vpmag.com/yssy/viewtopic.php?t=11559

[VH-Cheer Up]

I agree, Avalon has dulled down and this year I voted with my feet and stayed away.

I've been spoiled though. Brought up three miles from Farnborough, as a kid I used to ride my bike down there and sneak in the exits backwards so the coppers thought I was going out, not coming in.

The sight of the early P1127, the Concorde prototypes (man, were they ever noisy!) the Victors and Vulcans, Buccaneers and Sea-Vixens, and the Red Arrows, first with Hunters, then Gnats, then Hawks. I know the Roulettes are pretty good, but after the Red Arrows the Aussie team is very pedestrian. Nothing like a nine-ship team flying jets. Although the Navy did a good job one year with a four-man low-level, low speed aerobatic team performing aerial ballet in Harriers, just in front of the Royal Box.

I even saw an SR-71 there one year. It made the Atlantic crossing in 1h59m...

OK, I'll stop reminiscing now...

[Hornetboy]

lol Tipsy, the "stealthed" F-117 must have done a fair bit of display flying too then.

OWAP...........................................sorry mate. ;)

[Lukeatme]

Cheer Up


In a word you lucky son of a gun (I know more than one word)

[Avid_One]

I posted a rely on the "Who is going to Avalon"

But one improvement I would suggest....

Is to add more of a GA based display somehow, somewhere in the line up!
Yes i know its an Internation Airshow... but aim some more emphasis at the locals, and the local market?
Was there any actual propeller companies displaying their wares??
VH-PIP was on display at the Castrol Tent, and what a nice paint job as well.
Skylines were there..
But I couldnt buy an new ERSA!

This is just a thought !
:D

[OWAP]

Hornetboy,

Can be easily overlooked! Apology accepted.

:ok:

[grusome]

At the risk of.......................

Dear Woomera,

It's a nice slip.....<g>

I apologise for taking so long to reply, been busy trying to get aircraft out. Have we crossed paths/swords in the past? Did I perhaps fail you on one of your flight tests?

"....legal background..."? Now where did you get that? A logical mind, I think, but no llb here. Perhaps you have the wrong person in mind!

And your: "A smart organisation would take the constructive criticism by experienced aviation people on board and try harder next time." takes a little understanding. Why on earth do you think I bother to open the thread, if not to seek input? And if I get input which is useable/applicable, it gets fitted into the scheme of things.

I have to say that I don't quite understand the significance to you of 1999, - "I see you have been around since 1999" - that (presumably, I don't recall) being the year that I decided that I had enough spare time to stop lurking and start contributing. Whatever, I have certainly over the years valued the inputs of people such as Gaunty and John E, who take time to give/initiate considered and useful replies/comments within a subject thread. Any embarrassment I might have relates to the seemingly unclear English expression I used, and the ease with which you set the wild geese chasing, although imo that is not the role of the moderator. Context, man, context.

The context was the comment by some gentleman who suggested that we "winged" the flying display, and that's what I addressed with my comment. Although I generalised a little out of that trigger-point, sadly, others have since validated my comment, to which issue I shall return. However, to those knowledgeable people who saw fit to take offence at my comment, I apologise unreservedly, for I sought only to put down the idiot fringe.

But first; my comment, to whit: "many people who comment on this forum have zero knowledge or credibility" is sustainable on a daily basis. I'm positive that you read many threads on Pprune, and I would worry if you disagreed with the statement. Zero knowledge of a subject or portion thereof equals ignorance, and shooting one's mouth off from a basis of ignorance surely reduces credibility to zero level, does it not?

Let's drag a couple of examples out of this thread. Critical Reynolds No wrote: "Maybe a trip to RIAT or another large airshow may be the go." Now, whilst the two ASDU executives who worked at RIAT last year might be a bit offended by that, I consider that the imputation that can be drawn, ie that the RIAT Ringmaster on our team (thanks Geoff) and the other senior executive from RIAT (thanks Brian), who between them have in excess of 40 years experience at the tattoo, have not contributed to our show, is quite an unacceptable slur. Perhaps CRN would like me to magically import full-length parallel taxiways, more concrete than there are squadrons to cover it, benign military airspace (and controllers), albeit a bit tight, minimal to zilch RPT considerations, and a charitable environment, which ensures significant low cost support. Do you think that I should allow CRN any credibility on this basis?

Or triadic: is he a politician? Of course the Minister was there, but did triadic try to establish that before his comment? Would someone who had personally committed a significant portion of the Nation's hardware to a show not turn up to see how it was presented? Again, triadic, credibility score zero.

Finally Woomera, there are corporate issues that are better not (from my perspective) dragged through the court of uninformed public opinion because in subsequent years the absence of confidentiality might militate against continued support. I'm sure you have been around long enough to understand!

Cheers
Gru

Gaunty: Your comment about stretching 3 hours into 2 addresses, I take it, the Trade Day displays. Actually, they were always two hour displays. The rest was practice flying by those who hadn't arrived in time to practice during the preceding practice days, if you see what I mean. Something to do with tropical cyclones, it seems. But the significant thing for me is that it is now extremely difficult to get an Exhibition, as distinct from Display, aircraft to actually put on a display, as distinct from a demonstration flight, of which there were many. You may recall that this was the original idea of the Trade Day flying. If there isn't a potential bag of gold to be seen (as there was during the helo acquisition times a few years ago), nobody is going to spend a few grand to please the ordinary punter. For the public days, there were more acts available than we could use in the six hours (minus RPT traffic time) available. Further, may I say that in this business, PT Barnum is long dead. Flying circi are out the window. Deliberately crashing surplus biplanes into barns is forbidden. In this environment, a bit of G&S with sound and light is all that is allowed, along with the rare woman prepared to stand on top of an ultralight doing wingovers.

John E: Yep, the weekend weather was all that could be asked. Don't know why you need to explain your quals, they're already known. For me, of relevance, display pilot in the sixties, ringmaster 70's, boss of heavy jet outfit 80's, also RPT examiner, aviation consultant later 90's, 8 years with ASDU, on the way out (good riddance no doubt!). Also an RPT Surveyor for a while, so very close to your business as well, indeed had about 20 ATC's working for me this show. BTW, I thought the pyros were quite well orchestrated, given the OHS considerations and limits. I'll bet young Larard has never before flown a Kittyhawk with more apparent firepower, and the praccy bombs in the Amberley store don't have quite the resonance that we saw last week.

To those who dream of the so far unattainable: every show we go through the process of establishing wish lists, and every show, it seems, something prevents our wishes being fulfilled. We don't decide who or what comes from far away, more is the pity. Too many opposition airshows (eg, the Baghdad Airshow in '03, other considerations this year, surely that must be obvious to anybody who reads the international pages) interfere with due process. Hornetboy, neither have I seen Harrier or Jaguar or F5 in Oz, but I would very much like to. How do you suggest we "bring back" the Tornado, B1 or Super Hornet? Who is "they"? I'll go talk to them if I can find them. Who would you have fly the Tiger? Night Owl, your penultimate para is prescient.

May I philosophise a little? Subject to Woomera pulling the plug on me, I'd like to give you an opinion. I have taken a hell of a lot out of aviation in 45 years, and in the last decade, I have tried very hard to constructively return something. It seems to me that there is a huge amount of negativity about at the moment as we go through a low in the sine curve of aviation activities. I see in the media (including Pprune) a lot of bad-mouthing everything to do with GA and RPT. There is often nothing but idiot input to serious discussion. Many folks don't have a positive bone in their body, it seems. Better to denigrate and slang off than to actually do something to promote the industry. However, I will take bets that the forthcoming inevitable shortage of pilots and LAMEs will have a very positive effect on the employability of the next generation (possibly the fourth generation in my family, so I certainly hope so). The current generation will have to put up with being at the low point because there is no alternative, no more, no less. However, aviation is always in a state of flux, look to the future and make plans based on what is more likely to happen, not on what used to be.

All you people with bright ideas, how about putting your skills and reputation on the line, and assist at Avalon in the future. Answer one of the periodic advertisements in the aviation press if you are qualified, or even pm me with credentials. As a volunteer (one of about 750 or so) it will only take about 14 days at 12 hours a day out of your life each two years, but you will be doing something positive for aviation. If you really wish to wring yourself out over several months, go for a senior job.

However, I've done my dash, so to speak. Rant over. One job left, that is to write a biography of one of Oz's unsung pioneer heroes, AA Koch. That'll take a few years, no doubt.

Good luck to you all, even the idiots.

Toodle pip chaps,
Grusome

Takes of hat, hangs it on hook, walks slowly to the exit, sets off in the general direction of the golf club.

Young whippersnappers.......Bah!

[triadic]

Gru,

Your rant is perhaps justified. However one should always try and see comment in a 'constructive' light wherever possible. It is the sad Aussie custom to be a knocker first, a part of our culture we should all be used to. (for better or worse!)


Or triadic: is he a politician? Of course the Minister was there, but did triadic try to establish that before his comment? Would someone who had personally committed a significant portion of the Nation's hardware to a show not turn up to see how it was presented? Again, triadic, credibility score zero.


Of course I don't know the guest list, but I was there every day and did not see any media comment from Minister Anderson about the show or him being there. Usually such visits are subject to media comment and for an aviation minister, much fanfare... sorry, but did I miss that?

You should not take the comment here to heart, but some of it is perhaps valid and might be used in the future. As always you have to filter it somewhat!

Job well done, nevertheless.

[John Eacott]

Gru,

Thanks for the considered reply, and I accept the points that you made.

Call in for a decent coffee next time you pass Hangar 3? :ok:

[Capt Hollywood]

I managed to get to Thursday's trade day and quite enjoyed walking around the halls and aircraft displays. My only gripe for the whole day was the ridiculously overpriced food. :mad: $12.50 for a very small bowl of 'hot meal of the day' and $4.00 for a 600ml softdrink! Bugger selling missile defence systems and engine components, I'm bringing a hotdog van in 2007!

To assist those of us with a passing interest in photography and if it's not too much of a hassle could you perhaps move the runway to the eastern side of the viewing area. With the flying displays taking place in the afternoon the sun is currently behind the aircraft on display and as such the conditions are not conducive to taking photos.

See you in 2007 and look forward to the new runway setup!

Cheers,

Hollywood :cool:

[Lukeatme]

Good points made by the last few posters but I asked about the food and drink prices and was told up to $10,000 for a site phew no wonder you would have to charge like a wounded bull to recoup the outlay then make a profit, I too was a bit piss*d off at the prices but calmed a little when told that. Will bring my own tucker next time 2007

[Point0Five]

Everybody loves going to a good airshow... but these things cost money. Yeah, the food is overpriced; there isn't enough GA; too much focus on industry. Thing is... it almost seems like a trade show designed to drum up big business that wants to make a bit on the side from the Australian public. How dare they!

[sosouth]

A good show but like others have said the food price was way over the top.
I think Piper and Cesna should have had a stand and Qantas and VB didn't seem to be around. No new baron B58 to look at, or really good GA aircraft. I was thinking airshows were like car shows, you looked then went out and spent money.

[Rich-Fine-Green]

Sosouth:

Maybe Piper, Cessna & Beech (piston) stayed away because Cirrus, Diamond and Airvan are the big sellers and the show is not worth it (too expensive to display) if no sales result.

Cessna sells steady numbers but it's been a while since Piper or Beech have sold anything new here.

As for QF, DJ etc.

Jetstar had a display and I don't think QF would want to take the gloss off little brother by having a display. Also, having Jetstar RPT arr. & dep. during the show was a marketing coup.

Why would DJ waste money on a display - in an area they don't service - when Jetstar steels the limelight several times a day.

[tipsy]

RFG

Bit of imagination required to see Jetstar's normal scheduled arrivals and departures as a "marketing coup".

They are operating in/out of Avalon today and not too many people will see those movements. Are they then to be regarded as a 'marketing flop'?

tipsy
prrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

[CIA Stooge]

I got the impression it was business as usual for Jetstar - they surely would have scheduled their newer A320s for all movements in and out of Avalon for the public days if they were treating it as a marketing coup and not the tired old white 717s we saw for some movements

[TheNightOwl]

grusome - no great foresight or fore-telling abilities, old son, just 22 years RAF servoce and another 20 civilian here in Oz. I was hoping against hope for SOME RAF input, but it was no more than that, blind Freddie could have foretold the scenario with less experience of the MoD(UK) than I.
As an aside, do you have any idea why the Nimrod was so subdued? No confidence- busting requested, just curious.

I've had a week to reconsider, and have come to the conclusion that, given my innate inability to ignore noisy aeroplanes, I will probably be there again in 2007! Sad, isn't it!!

As for volunteering, I did for the first Show, spent six days there as a Ground Controller, Military Aircraft, but haven't offerred since primarily 'cos I was a shift-worker as well as being in need of "brownie-points" with SWMBO most of the time. Add to that the difficulty of getting there, and back, from near YMMB airfield, and you may understand why. Nowadays, my age might militate against any great commitment, or does age not have any place in the deliberations of the organisers?

Overall, I enjoyed the Trade show more than the flying demos, with a couple of notable exceptions, but I believe that the airspace and display-line restrictions placed on the Show by nameless authorities contribute to that in no small way. Could today's litigious societal tendencies contribute to those, I wonder?

Kind regards,

TheNightOwl.

:ok:

[Kuntrol_Freek]

Ah for the "Good old Days"

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-3/981327/llaeros.jpg

[grusome]

Night Owl,

See my PM.

Thanks for your previous service. Age plays a part only so far as the individual wants it to, except that in the very highly stressed jobs there is a duty of care issue once people get into the heart attack zone - loosely defined as over about 63, based on experience in recent years!

Display line restrictions haven't changed much over the last three shows, but airspace has changed dramatically. WRT the litigious aspects, I would take the view that most of recent change in the regulatory sense is more aligned with user-pays than with the tendency to sue - in this country, anyway. However, we must always have in mind the consequences of lack of care!

Cheers
Gru

[pall]

:O I love anything that flys. Have been an aircraft nut all my life! I have visited every airfield anywhere I have visited. Always look skyward at anything that flys.

I now have my PPL and flew into YMAV in an aircraft that was left there on display. In Thursday AM, Out Mon AM.

I was disapointed with the airshow too.

Loved the aerobatic Su. display.

Food was outrageous! Flight display was very predictable. Overall a lack of depth to the number and type of aircraft on display and flying.

I think I will volunteer next Avalon Airshow so I can give back more to the venture.

I manned a tent for my Aeroclub. Attended Thurs, Fri & Sat.

I too believe things are too negative in GA. The costs are so prohibitative. Try hiring a 172 to take the wife away for a weekend somewhere nice. Ready to squwander $500-1000?

I still love to fly. Members at my aero club love to stir me about flights YBRS - YMMB, or circuits but it is all I can afford.

[Lukeatme]

Pall


Glad to see you too liked the amazing display by the SU and the gifted pilot!!!

[Lukeatme]

Great to see good constuctive comments, will see you all at the next one (yeah I know most said no more) but like all others you forget the bad and remember the good for 2007