PDA

View Full Version : Air Ambulance reported missing


Blank-EFIS
15th Mar 2005, 02:41
BBC Just reported Air ambulance has crashed near the coast of Mull. Very short report only mentioned that the ambulance was a Helicopter. Hope the report is premature and over stated. :sad: :sad: :sad:

Tinstaafl
15th Mar 2005, 04:10
Beeb online reports the wreckage of a twin engine aircraft has been found 8 miles off the Coast of Campbelltown.

:(

Richard Taylor
15th Mar 2005, 06:17
Search ongoing for the two people that were aboard-one pilot,one paramedic.

Belive it must have been the GLA-based Logainair BN2 Islander.

My condolences to friends and family of those involved.

:{

an-124
15th Mar 2005, 07:34
Didn't Logainair lose a SD-330 a few years back?

Dylsexlic
15th Mar 2005, 07:36
The news this morning reported that two lifeboats and an RAF helicopter are still looking for survivors, but hope is fading. A sad day indeed.

APRIANA
15th Mar 2005, 07:47
They lost a SD-360 out of EDI with 2 crew onboard. They also lost another BN-2 a few years back, it was on approach to Lerwick. The pilot was lost but the doctor and nurse survived.

Hope they are found.

brain fade
15th Mar 2005, 08:05
Terrible news. Filthy night last night.

Intergalactic
15th Mar 2005, 08:22
Here is a BBC report.


Two lost in air ambulance crash
An air ambulance with two people on board has crashed into the sea off the Mull of Kintyre.
Wreckage has been found about five miles off the coast from Campbeltown.

The aircraft - travelling from Glasgow to Campbeltown to pick up a sick child - had a paramedic and pilot on

board when contact was lost at 0020 GMT.

The fixed wing Islander aircraft, operated by Loganair, was preparing to land at Machrihanish airport when it

crashed into the sea.

Three lifeboats and a Sea King helicopter are at the scene, along with HMS Penzance, a navy minesweeper.

The navy crew were preparing to lower underwater cameras after picking up a sonar signal from the seabed

which could be the plane's fuselage.

No distress call

A spokesman for RAF Rescue Centre, Kinloss, confirmed that the twin-engined plane had been on its way to

pick up an 11-year-old boy with "severe abdominal pains" who was to be taken to Yorkhill Hospital in Glasgow.

It is understood that the boy was later taken to hospital by road.

Brett Cunningham, Coastguard area operations manager, said: "We were alerted through the air traffic control

system just after midnight, but the aircraft had not put out a distress call.


Everyone in the service is shocked by this news and our thoughts are with the families of the paramedic and

pilot
Scottish Ambulance Service spokesperson

"The wreckage includes the undercarriage, lifejackets and various other debris and is spread over quite an

area.

"The weather was not a factor and there was no indication of anything in the area that would have played a part."

It is understood there was low cloud at about 400ft at the time the plane disappeared, although wind and rain

were light.

Sympathy for families

A spokesperson for the Scottish Ambulance Service said: "Everyone in the service is shocked by this news and

our thoughts are with the families of the paramedic and pilot who were on board the aircraft, as we all wait for

news from the rescue operation."

The aircraft is one of three operated for the Scottish Ambulance Service by Loganair, based in Glasgow,

Lerwick and Kirkwall.

Aberdeen-based aviation journalist Jim Ferguson told BBC Radio Scotland's Good Morning Scotland

programme that it was hard to say what had happened, but something had gone "horrendously wrong".

He did not think there was a black box on board the aircraft.

Story from BBC NEWS:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/1/hi/scotland/4349523.stm

Published: 2005/03/15 07:00:53 GMT

© BBC MMV

Eff Oh
15th Mar 2005, 08:42
I heard the a/c last night as it transfered from Scottish to MAC. I remember thinking "I wouldn't like to be in that tonight" ( I was in a B757) but that is often my thought when I hear the ambulance flights. Hard hard work. It's a very sad day for all. I just hope that by some miricle they find the guys alive.
The other BN2 that crashed was not Lerwick, but Tingwall.

NorthSouth
15th Mar 2005, 09:04
Tingwall = Lerwick

Ojuka
15th Mar 2005, 09:07
And Lerwick=Tingwall

Eff Oh
15th Mar 2005, 09:14
Sorry, you are of course correct. I stand corrected. Lerwick does = Tingwall.

2 Greens 1 Red!
15th Mar 2005, 09:30
:( Although it's already been said, my heart goes out to all concerned. A difficult job at the best of times and as previously mentioned, a particularly bad night last night! We are all thinking of you guys at Loganair.

Mark McG
15th Mar 2005, 10:31
Sad News indeed.As others have mentioned the Air Ambulance guys do a fantastic job, a lot of the time in the foulest of weather conditions.

Condolences to all involved.

Avman
15th Mar 2005, 11:53
There seems to be conflicting statements about the wx. Other than the low 400ft ceiling the wx was reportedly as not particularly bad. Yet Eff Oh, who flew in the area, reckons otherwise.

Jet2
15th Mar 2005, 12:43
Whatever the cause, my sincerest condolences to all concerned. A sad day for us all.

Jet2

Blank-EFIS
15th Mar 2005, 12:56
Latest From BBC. Search called off after part of the Fuselage was found on the sea floor.

Pilot and paramedic named as - Capt Guy Henderson and Paramedic John Keith McCreanor.
More Here - http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/4349523.stm

Condolences to both families.
A sad day for all involved.

Tinstaafl
15th Mar 2005, 13:01
My condolances to the families. Guy was keen to transfer from the Saab to the Shetland Islander when I was flying the Islander at Lerwick. How sad that having transferred to an Islander it's resulted in his death.

:sad:

fatobs
15th Mar 2005, 13:21
Was part of the Navy SAR Crew from Prestwick that was first on scene.

Weather at low level was initially fairly poor - Vis 3000m cloud base 200 - 300 ft, Sea state 2 - 3, improved through the night.

Condolances to all involved, wish we could have done more.

Report Visual
15th Mar 2005, 13:37
My most sincere condolences go out to the families of Captain Guy Henderson and Paramedic John McCreanor.

Those folks on the air ambulance services do a fantastic job, often in the most severe weather conditions.

flying dutchman
15th Mar 2005, 13:46
HI Fatobs you guys do a great job under difficult circumstances. THANKS

I knew Guy and John well. My condolences to all the families and all at Loganair. Very Sad Day.


Rest in Peace.

bantermanter
15th Mar 2005, 14:57
Hi

I knew Guy quite well, did some fantastic flying with him when he was Captain on the Saab Fleet. Going to miss him alot..rest in peace mate.

thinking bout you guys and gals at loganair who knew and thought highly of Captain Henderson.

ayrprox
15th Mar 2005, 15:25
Very sad news, whilst not knowing the crew personally i have probably worked them around the wick kirwall area and they fly at times and in conditions that i would not like to drive in let alone fly. my thoughts go out to the families of the loganair ambulance :{

benedictus
15th Mar 2005, 18:00
A very sad day indeed for all at Glasgow and especially the people at Loganair.

The ambulance crews do a fantastic job saving lives on a daily basis in all weather conditions, sadly doing this difficult job has resulted in 2 of our colleagues losing their lives.

My thoughts and prayers and no doubt those of my colleagues in the tower at Glasgow are with the families of Capt Henderson and paramedic McCreanor.

May they rest in peace

Rusty Flyer
15th Mar 2005, 18:01
My sincerest condolences to Guy's family and that of the Paramedic - John.

I had the pleasure of working with Guy many times on the otherside of the mic, real professional and great humour too.

Great loss to the profession and to all that knew him.

RIP Mate!

robnewman
15th Mar 2005, 22:29
Sincerest condolences to the families of the crew.

Working on a Police Air Support Unit, we have the luxury of turning around when things go bad. So, the bad guys get away ... who cares? When it's our colleagues on the Air Ambo's .... someone gets sicker ... or worse!

I have nothing but admiration for those guys. They are the heroes of Emergency Service aviation, and the best thing to happen in Emergency Healthcare in recent years.

I for one, know that, if I ever had a serious accident i would want it to be in an area covered by one of these units.

I hope the little lad made it too!

I joined the Emergency Services hoping to make a difference. These two guys families should be proud of them, because THEY made a difference.

Rest in Peace guys.

brain fade
16th Mar 2005, 01:59
A friend of mine explained to me, and other pals, in the horseshoe, why he'd stopped flying the ambulance.
I was impressed.
Lovely chap. He's not flying now tho.

Lon More
16th Mar 2005, 23:23
Not the first to go and won't be the last; condolences to friends and family.

INKJET
19th Mar 2005, 08:25
There is much that can be done to improve safety on these type of operations, in this day and age having friends die and calling them brave or hero's is not good enough for them or their poor families.

These service do provide a medical life line but for Goverment its just another way of avoiding providing local facilites in rural areas and the excecutive should hang their heads in shame.

Scotland needs proper funding for these types of operations and whilst Islanders and Twotters are excellent for what they were desgined for Scotland sometime dangerous weather requires proper respect and equipment.

In this day and age we can make Zero vis landings at places like MAC at least as safe as the current ops given the GPS technologly available and aircraft with first rate a/p systems else where we can do much the same with the latest choppers

If we can afford to fund traffic police to fly choppers with FLIR &NVG to take pictures that they can flog to BRAVO we should start by funding a dedicated LAND & air sea resucue that can provide this type of cover and not rely on Civi's no matter how dedicated.

Sure it will cost money (a lot) but a fraction of the cost of the new Scottish Parliament and dare i say it provide more benifit for the people of Scotland who have been shafted by their politicians.

I would gladly pay the extra to bring those guys back RIP

I see that Gamma are shortly to take over the provision of air ambulance support for Scotland using a pair of King Airs and Choppers.................ironic

please note i am in no way pe judging the out come of the AAIB investigation nor questioning LoganAirs equipment,proccedures or indeed the pilot, just frustrated at another sad loss to our industry.

Cheers

Burt

moggiee
19th Mar 2005, 13:08
Before installing FLIR etc, why not "install" a second pilot?

Having two qualified pilots on board in poor weather goes a long way to enhancing flight sfaety, in my opinion.

Never mind the legalities of single pilot ops, what about the practicalities?

Please note that I am not pre-judging the inquiry or speculating as to the cause of the accident, nor am I laying any blame upon any crew member.However, statistical evidence confirms that single pilot operation in this class of aeroplane DOES carry a greater degree of risk.

It's no coincidence that a certain well know cargo oufit operates the single pilot approved Caravan with two crew.

Tinstaafl
19th Mar 2005, 15:12
Moving map GPS with a terrain database would be one of the most effective improvements that could be made. What a pity that GPS is persona non grata in the UK.

We often used a handheld Garmin GPSIII a previous pilot obtained in spite of the Director of Flight Ops expressing disapproval when he found out.

Legal or otherwise, the data available was orders of magnitude more accurate & timely than no navaids or a low powered NDB 30nm away or a VOR obscured by a range of hills - while trying to find an island at night with no navaids & only flare pots to mark the strip.

Mr Moustache
20th Mar 2005, 14:32
A while back, when I did this Air Amb thing, I felt two sets of eyes were vital in marginal conditions, especially at night. More than once I used the nurse (as it was then) to help.

One time, needing to go into Islay on a particularly horrible night, I even took my wife (a trained nurse as well as experienced in light aviation). The brief was that I would fly heads down for best precision and my wife would look out and tell me when she could clearly see two parallel rows of runway lights. Then I would look up and land if I was visual. Mission was accomplished safely even if not quite iaw SOPs. Islay was also a location for the loss of a Heron Air Amb aircraft with no survivors.

On a nice day single crew is fine. At night and especially in marginal weather, it has to be two crew. I still think that night ops into Barra are amongst the most hazardous things I have ever done.

I hope these guys are the last to be lost on Scottish Air Ambulance operations but I fear they will not be.

A Sayers
22nd Mar 2005, 14:58
When I discussed the absence of (ops manual specified) night training in Shetland I was told that we didn't do them often and just to keep my fingers crossed that I wasn't called out at night. Later the same manager said "breaking the law is the only way we can get the job done" I and my colleagues disagread. After that I talked the NHS in Shetland to fund the Garmin. Management disaproved strongly, but I noticed that 'management' flew with GPS. I never did get any night training. I believe Tinstaafi got the first and his 'trainer/manager' also had his first experience of night outer isles ops on the same flight.

To get an idea of whats involved in ambulance night ops read 'Islanders Islander' on the Fair isle airstrip website.

Nil further
22nd Mar 2005, 16:03
IS The Islander certified for flight on known icing conditions ?

Ambulance 'Charlie Alpha'
22nd Mar 2005, 16:32
Hi there,

It's all well and good talking about upgrading services, GPS and the like, and how hard it can be flying to NDBs or no aids at all, in the dark, in Scotland etc, etc. The fact is that MAC is a well established 'discreet' Loganair VOR/DME procedure that heads out over the sea with with a normal inbound turn and descent to a standard MDA of 430 feet or so into an immediate VOR assisted go-around if nothing is seen at MDA. No level off and de-stabilisation etc. The aeroplane was crewed with a very experienced and highly capable pilot, a great paramedic (I flew with them both on many occasions when I worked for Loganair) and a sturdy three axis autopilot....hence the dispensation to fly single crew ops.

We are not, in this particular case talking about inaccurate night NDB approaches on islands like Islay, or scrabbling around in the dark low-level looking for lights. In the last few years great efforts have been made to bring the BN2 SOPs and training to a very high standard, mirroring the other fleets high quality training at Loganair, and the crew were both professionals. The whole issue of using paramedics to assist as an extra set of eyes when the weather is bad is not dangerous. That's called CRM. And the modern training is working harder to develop that relationship. You think the helicopter paramedics aren't looking out of the window and talking to the crew when they're trying to let down in the crap weather?

There seems to be this yesteryear opinion that the job, single pilot, is 'dangerous', but within the bounds of the training and the SOPs, even the night work to Barra is fairly straight forward. Something obviously went tragically wrong, and lets hope the AAIB can shed some light on that, for everyone's sake, so that if nothing else, the guys who still have to go out day and night and do this job can learn from it.

The guys will be missed very much and my sympathies go out to their families and everyone at Loganair.

ACA

Edited for Nil further: Yes it is, into light icing conditions. Loganair aircraft fitted with full wing, stab and fin boots, hot prop mats and a hot windscreen panel.

moggiee
22nd Mar 2005, 21:22
There seems to be this yesteryear opinion that the job, single pilot, is 'dangerous', but within the bounds of the training and the SOPs, even the night work to Barra is fairly straight forward.
I'm not suggesting that single pilot ops are "dangerous" per se - just that they ARE undoubtely more risky than two pilot ops.

If that were not the case, why do we need two crew on a B737/A320 which has an even better APFD and nav suite than the Islander?

Two pairs of eyes and two pairs of hands are safer than one. Always have been and probably always will be.

BlueEagle
22nd Mar 2005, 22:08
I used to fly air ambulance for Loganair back in the early seventies, on the BN2.
Have done the let down out to sea at Islay and others many a time, I think something else must have gone wrong here.

mad_jock
23rd Mar 2005, 08:53
Only met Gus once on the apron up North. And my condolances to family friends and all that knew the gent.

As a matter of interest to alot of people on the Western and the Northen Isles is what is going to happen when the contract changes.

There are quite alot of backroom storys about the Islander pulling off the nearly impossible mainly due to the quality crew and the shall we say unique abilitys of the islander. There is always something great about watching an islander hover landing across a runway when nothing else can get in.

And the the storys of islanders getting into ice and the manner they escaped put the fear of god up me just thinking about the situation.

Can the helicopters really improve the service that Logan Air and the islanders are doing just now?. And its going to one hella of a steep learning curve for the crews operating in the highland when they come on line.

MJ

A Sayers
23rd Mar 2005, 09:39
Ambulance Charlie Alpha. You hit it on the head when you refered to the SOPs.

You mention an MDA of 430', and a robust autopilot. Ive been out of the game but I thought it was MDH? Does the ops manual still say the auto pilot cannot be used below 1,000'?

A second pilot would help decision making/situational awareness just as it does on larger types. Liverpool/Tingwall and other single pilot crashs would probably not have happend if there had been two pilots.

Gus was tremendously helpful after my chemical injury (and incapacitation in flight). I will miss his counsel and friendship. RIP.

Andy S.

NorthSouth
23rd Mar 2005, 09:54
I've always been hugely respectful of the Loganair air amb pilots and even moreso now after some of what's been said on this thread. What I can't understand is how the CAA have dealt with all this - night ops into 500m rough grass strips on tiny islands in the Atlantic with no prior training etc. Presumably, if they're ambulance flights, they're public transport even though the patient isn't exactly paying? So if they're flying into unlicensed strips in an aircraft >2730kgs, especially at night, they must have some sort of standing exemption from various provisions of the ANO, not to mention JAR-OPS 1? I would have thought regulatory oversight would be even more stringent where people are operating on exemptions.

NS

A Sayers
23rd Mar 2005, 10:02
Loganair does have exemptions for these kind of operations.

Ambulance 'Charlie Alpha'
23rd Mar 2005, 12:22
Andy

Loganair have altered their BN2 SOPs considerably in recent times. They operate non-precision approaches to the now termed CDA (Company Decision Altitude) i.e; +50ft, then immediate go-around. No level off (Except Barra) and thus no potential of destabilising the approach at low altitude and no low-level flight to the MAP.

By the way. His name was Guy, not Gus.

ACA

rawmac
23rd Mar 2005, 21:33
I don't know about previous training methods, but I can say that night training into Barra, Bute and the North Isles is conducted nowadays before the relevant route certificates are issued.

Night ops. into 500m strips (with the exception of Bute with its PAPIs) are only conducted in Orkney and Shetland in the North Sea and it could be a hard surface or a grass surface depending on the wind, in most cases lit by battery lamps - however the orkney isles will soon have permanent runway lighting. It must be remembered that the North Isles are known like the back of each pilot's hand as daily scheduled services are flown in and out of the isles day VFR - up to 21 sectors in a day.

The night flying in the majority of the Western Isles (except Barra) is to airports with all their associated aids and facilities.

I certainly don't believe that the current Loganair operation is dangerous and wonder what a second pilot would do to remain awake on an Islander.

RIP Guy.

moggiee
24th Mar 2005, 21:11
I certainly don't believe that the current Loganair operation is dangerous and wonder what a second pilot would do to remain awake on an Islander.
I guess he/she would participate fully in the operation of the aeroplane and share the workload, enhanceing flight safety - just as they do on all other 2-pilot aeroplanes.

If you have flown an aeroplane of the Islander class with 1 pilot and with 2 you soon realise how much lighter your wokload is with the second brain/set of eyes and hands on board.

keepin it in trim
25th Mar 2005, 22:22
Sincere condolences to all at Loganair on their sad loss

Mad Jock

I think you will find that the helicopters you question about have been in place providing a service to the Scottish Ambulance Service for several years working out of Inverness and Glasgow. I think you can therefore take it that they are quite familiar with operating in the highlands of Scotland both day and night.

The helicopter service has been 24 hrs for a number of years, the 135 is a good machine, full glass cockpit, a v. good autopilot inlcuding auto ILS, radar, moving map, gps, rad alt. The aircraft is full single-pilot IFR and all the pilots are IR. You should see some of the night landing sites they use! (and hovering is natural in a helo). Your comments seemed, unfairly, dispariging about both the helicopters and their crews.

Ojuka
26th Mar 2005, 09:08
"There is always something great about watching an islander hover landing across a runway when nothing else can get in."

Having operated on Highlands and Islands routes for nine years, I never saw a Loganair Islander do what you suggest. When and where did you see this?

Bond have been operating Bo105s and EC135s for some time in Scotland now in extreme weather and at night. I am bemused as to why they would experience "a steep learning curve" when they "come on line". Are they not "on line" already?

If you wish to name victims in person at least extend them the courtesy of getting their name correct.:rolleyes:

swh
26th Mar 2005, 09:38
Did Air Ambulance work in Australia with B200 and PC12 aircraft.

Straight in GPS approaches were preferred that would get us down to about 500' AGL aligned with the runway. I personally think circling NDB approaches at night are a silly idea.

With EGPWS and Rad Alt you get enough prompting of the minima. Also had an electronic checklist that would scroll through with a button press on the yoke that also went into the headset, and a visual display. Aircraft had 3 GPS, one for navigation, one for EGPWS, one for the colour moving map. Along with GPS course bar information on the HSI lines you up with the runway.

No need for an additional pilot, and with the smaller aircraft it takes away from the payload available, would rather have extra fuel than an extra pilot.

Is the BN2 and the kit fitted inside the best tool for the job ?

Condolances to all for their loss.

Tinstaafl
26th Mar 2005, 17:34
I don't have a problem with the Islander for the job. Many of the runway's are under 450 or 500m, with one only 381m.

A possible replacement would be a Cessna Caravan. The short fuselage version with the higher HP engine. The catch is the 381 m runway. A C208 *might* be able to do it with the same load that the BN2 currently does however Cessna's figures require extrapolation to determine the case. Even Cessna's UK agent was unable to supply manufacturer data for the case.

There's still the anti-SE turbine mindset endemic in the CAA & many operator's management that would have to be changed. The UK authorities also seem to have an irrational fear of GPS & GPS approaches even though many (most?) of the airstrips don't have navaids.

poorwanderingwun
27th Mar 2005, 12:45
TINSTAAFI.....

The Caravan (208) is often thought of mistakenly as some sort of short field bush style aircraft....it's not...it's primarily designed for Fed-Ex type ops into 2nd and 3rd level airports and is not considered a short field performer....in fact at gross it's not that much better than a B200....though it does have advantages on rough strips....

As for the CAA having an "Anti SE turbine mind-set"...it may be with good reason....as I've posted before on the subject...undoubtedly turbines are incredibly reliable in comparison with piston a/c.... however, I don't think that at present there are any SE turbine aircraft flying that are 30 years old....In 7000 hrs of turbo-prop ops on turbine twins I've had 4 fire warnings (3 spurious,1 genuine)...lost all oil out of an engine during an ILS approach to minimums with a full load of pax and had to shut an engine down that was going out of control due to a computer malfunction....Over 7000 hrs it doesn't sound like much but in a single it only has to happen once. The turbines are hugely reliable...the ancilliary equipment that these engines depend on is not always as good...As these aircraft get older...especially in Europe with the excruciatingly high operating costs, the operaters will be those at the lower end of the spectrum who by circumstances will be forced to keep maintenance to the bare legal minimum...those who've flown for these outfits will recognise what that means.....

Don't be in too much of a hurry to see IFR SE turbine commercial ops legalised in Europe...

mad_jock
27th Mar 2005, 14:43
Now now i wasn't having a go at the heli-med boys. Who I am always watching for when the come in for a hot refuel. They can make the machine dance. And the landing site chart in the office with the bit of string with a wieght on the end for measuring distance does truly show some very impressive landing areas.

As for the islander hovering in, it was in kirkwall on a nice summers day with the 2 main runways out of xwind limits and the islander sort of came in on 15 but sort of to the right, popped it down just at the edge of the intersection and just stopped in about 10 ft.


The plus points is that its a dedicated machine with proper kit on board which is designed for the role

Firestorm
27th Mar 2005, 14:45
Having flown with just about all of Loganair's ambulance pilots at some point over the last four years, I would not cast any doubt as to their ability in the Islander, or any of the other aeroplanes, we've operated together. And I wouldn't cast any doubt as to Loganair's commitment to providing a really excellent service to the remote communities and the Ambulance Service. It is just a sad fact of aviation that accidents happen and lives were lost. I am really gutted that Guy was one of those lives: he was a 'splendid chap', and a bloomin good mate.

I am glad that the Ambulance Service realised that the requirment for a 21st century service had to be upgraded. I do think that whilst the Islander operation was an excellent operation, in this day and age there are better alternatives.

For as long as the CAA drag their heels about certifying GPS for non-precision and precision approaches, crews will make up their own procedures, which may be inherently as dangerous as those they try to improve upon. For as long as no one gets 'caught', or caught out, it won't matter, the job will get done. But when someone does come unstuck, there will be a big backlash. There is scope for many other threads on the subject: I expect it has been much debated already!

There are a couple of people who have posted here who's opinions and experience of the operation is first hand, and we would all do well to take note of what they say, and respect their experience of the subject.

Tinstaafl
28th Mar 2005, 00:33
poorwanderingwun,

The data Cessna supplied to me for the C208 go down to 400 or 450m (can't remember, it was a couple of years ago) - and that was with at least equivalent loads to the BN2. Using the same loads as were currently used into the 381m strip with a BN2, extrapolation showed the C208 was at least a feasable option worth pursuing with the manufacturer. If it wasn't for the entrenched anti-SE Turbine lobby.

At the time there were also funds set aside for the extension of the limiting runway by 50 m or so which would further reduce the performance data issue.

As for SET vs. light twins, the available data supports the safety of the SET class as at least equivalent to light twins. I've even seen data - but now can't remember where. I think it was from Oz's CASA - that showed a lesser risk due engine failure in a SET than in a light twin.

To argue that eventually a SET will have a failure & crash is a straw man argument. By the same logic and based on in service demonstrated safety rates, a light twin will also have a failure....and turn turtle & spear in.

Tinstaafl
28th Mar 2005, 22:16
I realise that extrapolation can't be used operationally. I used it to determine if further investigation was warranted.

A Sayers
2nd Nov 2005, 10:29
Thanks, I must have been having a 'senior' moment.
Andy.

silverknapper
24th Dec 2005, 19:04
From todays Glasgow Herald:

'A body recovered from the sea 12 miles off the Mull of Kintyre last Sunday has been identified as Guy Henderson, 40,of Broxburn,West Lothian, the pilot of an air ambulance which crashed off Campbeltown in March.'

I'm sure everyones thoughts are with his family on what must be a terrible time of the year for them.