Are photocopied charts legal????

[CFIT]

I have a buddy who is flying for an airline that is too cheap to provide pilots with real Jeppesen charts on board the airplane (of course they have the real ones in dispatch). What they use during normal line flying are photocopied charts which the print quality are not necessarily up to par. I personally find this practice to be unsafe. By ICAO or JAA standard, is this even legal? Thanks in advance for the reply.:confused:

[keithl]

I looked up JAR-OPS for you and was surprised to find the paragraph reads as follows:
"Current maps, charts, and associated documents or equivalent data are available..."

"Equivalent data" appears to be a bit of a get-out. Certainly vague enough to give the lawyers plenty to do at "the subsequent hearing"!!

[Phoenix_X]

As the above post suggests, I don't think it's actually illegal for the crew to use the copied charts, as long as they are readable.

However, I don't think Jeppesen will be too happy if they heard about this! As fas as I know they have a copyright on the charts and unauthorised copying is strictly forbidden.

If your friend wants this situation changed I think maybe a phonecall to Jeppesen to see whether the airline is allowed to copy might work :E .

[Touch'n'oops]

I believe in the USA, a complete worded description of the proceedure is Okay. As long as it is complete.

e.g. Pilot: "Approach chart not on-board."

ATC: "Ready to copy proceedure?(STAR, SID, VOR, ILS...etc.)"

It was in my foreign pilots written test!

Oh! And my Airline does the same!!!

[sky9]

CFIT

I think you will find that it is breach of copright; who's the cheapskate company?

Wouldn't surprise me if their insurance is invalid either!!

[Doors to Automatic]

"Who's the cheapskate company?"

If I was a betting man I know where I would be putting my money! :p

[sky9]

I think THEY have already been caught!!

[Old Smokey]

From the point of view of copyright, photo-copied charts are illegal, although operationally, they are legal provided that they are current.

Some years ago the pilots of a large airline asked for, and received, A4 sized photo-copies of relevant Jeppesen charts for better readability. A full set of the original Jeppesen charts was still carried on each aircraft. After a threat of legal action for infringement of copyright from Jeppesen, the airline was forced to withdraw the charts.

Pity really, with my eyes, A3 size copies would be a good thing.

Regards,

Old Smokey

[QNH1013]

Any photocopied materiel that was copyrighted would be an obvious infringment and therefore illegal. The sort of illegal like downloading a song from the net.

However, Jeppesen provide a service called JeppView, which is a CD Rom bought by a company to use by printing off charts from the CD. Usually prinited as a small booklet per airport. This is legal and of course the compnay would have to also buy the update CD-Rom from Jeppesen when there are revisions. MASTER charts on board for ships library MUST be original. So therefore the airline saves on the wear and tear of the charts and can keep printing as many as they like. My company practices this. Personally, I would prefer original loose charts that I manage myself.

[swh]

QNH1013,

The Jeppview I haved used updates are via Internet, only the initial install via cdrom. When you go to download, Jeppview checks your subscription at that stage.

:ok:

[stator vane]

Let's keep the not-so-hard-to-figure out clues as to personal and corporate identities off line, please.

JT

[stator vane]

identities of certain airlines not allowed???

entire threads with names of airlines every where i look!!!!!!

and red letters to top it off!!!!

excuse me---oops almost did it again.

[Knold]

photocopies and prints are different. If your OM-A prescribes the use of electronic route manuals printed ones are OK. There are even airlines operating soley on electronic charts.

[P-T-Gamekeeper]

In these days of cutbacks, the RAF gives us nearly all copied charts, often partially illegible.

I wonder if they have even considered copyright.

[Genghis the Engineer]

Two issues here.

- Is it legal to use copied charts from an operational / air-law viewpoint? Almost certainly, if the data is complete and correct that's all that matters.

- Is it legal to copy Jeppesen's data without their permission? Almost certainly not, this is likely to be in breach of copyright laws unless permission has been obtained or it is very small amounts of data for "review purposes", which seems unlikely in this context.

G

[Dualbleed]

Heard that Ryanair uses photocopies ??

[Knold]

Actually I belive FR uses printed ones in fine agreement with Jepco.

[reynoldsno1]

Is it legal to copy Jeppesen's data without their permission?

It's a moot point whether the data actually belongs to Jeppesen - they are no more than a reformat/republishing house. They do not originate the data - they obtain it from the public domain of individual States.

[Genghis the Engineer]

The data may not belong to them, the presentation does - and that is what is copyrighted.

G

[Captain Stable]

It is permissible to photocopy with the express permission of the copyright owner. It is also legal, I believe, to photocopy a replacement. So, for example, you've paid for a full EUR04 set. You're missing one plate. You photocopy one from another set to replace. Since you've paid for it, you can replace it. But I won't stake my life on that!

The problem I have with using photocopied plates is that you're never sure whether they are subject to update or not. So unless I've copied them myself that day, or have checked that day that they are current, I won't use them.

[Willit Run]

Our company has one Worldwide set of Jepp books on the plane, and then for the second pilot, we use the Jepp View plates that we print on our on board computer/printer. It is hard enough to keep the one worldwide set of books up to date, I could not imagine having to keep a second set up to date as well. This policy works well, and keeps the work load down, and the Feds off our back.

[N1 and ITT]

One of my buddies was failed on a JAR-checkride due to only copied charts and not having the original ones handy... That was quiet some money not saved. I don't remember the legal basis, but the result of the check was backed up by the respective NAA.

N1

[readbackcorrect]

Our charts are free and readily avaliable off the internet. Suppose the philosophy being its safer for the pilot to have a current chart than none or a old one. Cant see the difference between the photocopier or home printer really