Difficult question...

[tablet_eraser]

I was talking to someone in the bar not long ago about BuffHoon. The question arose: Does anyone in the Armed Forces have anything positive to say about him?

Discuss....

[Spotting Bad Guys]

Mmmmmm..........he has very shiny shoes?

SBG

[The Gorilla]

Isn't he a lawyer by trade? Oh heck you wanted positives didn't you!!

:O

[DuckDodgers]

Erm the only thing that springs to mind is that he's a complete c**t!

[BootFlap]

............ With a nice smile!

People keep telling me he is sharp as well






Does that make him a smiling knife?:confused:


Edited such that it doesn't appear as though I actually fancy him.................... although if it means he brings back FRI1!!!!!

[totalwar]

Having actually worked with him on many projects I can certainly say that he is:-

Focused
determined
aggresive
hard working
caring
sensitive
sharp as a pin
memory of an elephant
recognises bull**** from 200 yards

and has been the longest serving SofS for many years...if he wasn't any good at his job then he wouldnt be there would he...

[BootFlap]

Phew, that's handy. Totalwar will get all the banter now!

[Quagger]

Having actually worked with him on many projects I can certainly say that he is:-

Focused
determined
aggresive
hard working
caring
sensitive
sharp as a pin
memory of an elephant
recognises bull**** from 200 yards
-

Shame he comes across as a complete **** then:E

[jindabyne]

totalwar

You must be his wife/mistress/boyfriend ---- (PS - aside from vomit, I do share your Lynx views though)

Anyone care to suggest his successor post-election?

[DuckDodgers]

I'm sure Fozzy Bear is available or how about Gonzo?

[BootFlap]

How about Crossbow?:mad:

[totalwar]

I'll tell you who it won't be and thats Fatty soames...please... lets be serious..too be able to be SofS for defence you need to be able to fit through the door at MOD MB....

[Navaleye]

Another question: Does anyone have anything positive to say about ANY Secretary of State for Defence since 1970?

Honest question

[Pontius Navigator]

Nott springs to mind.














Sorry I meant Not One springs to mind.

[airborne_artist]

My dad had to brief Heseltine a couple of times, and was impressed with his grasp of the facts, the amount of prepartion he'd done and his attention to detail.

In a non-defence matter I met him once, and he was better than the few others I've dealt with.

[Roghead]

Totalwar, you've just dropped (or climbed) into the Crossbow league. I would hope that any senior cabinet minister would have the attributes which you have stated but none of them neccesarily make for a good Defence Minister judged by military standards. However you have worked with him (whatever that means) and most of us have not so my comments are only formed from what I read and see reference the Armed Forces, and little of it is positive.
If he is only part of what you say why is he still refusing to overturn the appallingly wrong decision in the Mull of Kintyre Chinook accident?:(

[lineslime]

People say that buff is sharp?

Guess that makes him a pr1ck then.

[JessTheDog]

Having actually worked with him on many projects I can certainly say that he is:-

Focused
determined
aggresive
hard working
caring
sensitive
sharp as a pin
memory of an elephant
recognises bull**** from 200 yards

and has been the longest serving SofS for many years...if he wasn't any good at his job then he wouldnt be there would he...


Ooh Sebastian, you are *so* butch when you defend your SoS! ;)

.....For fans of Little Britain!

On a serious note, has anyone ever seen him squirm in fromt of the House of Commons Defence Committee?

Pathetic!

HCDC are a highly effective bunch who genuinely care about the Armed Forces on a nonpartisan basis; unfortunately they can do little other than criticise, which they do on a frequent basis.

[The Gorilla]

Navaleye

Sleepy Fred Mulley gets my vote! He fell asleep not very far from where I was at the time!! Cracking, oh and he did indicate originally that he had no objections to the Armed Forces having a Federation or Association to put forward their views. This was swiftly changed when the error of his ways was pointed out by CDS at the time.. just a few days after the TUC tried to force his hand!

TG

[Impiger]

I too have seen the SofS working at first hand and can confirm all of the things totalwar says (I must know you TW but as you're probably a naval aviator I shall pretend I don't). I would add that he is also decisive and insists on evidence not conjecture to support his decisions (that'll be the lawyer then).

That leaves the very fair question of why doesn't he come across as the man he clearly is? I find his performance in the House to invariably be self satisfied to the point of smuggness and in front of the HCDC well I'm glad he's not my brief. The root cause I think is that he is a genuinely nice bloke but he doesn't particularly like the limelight and when reading statements prepared by his civil servants he goes all flat and lifeless. Much rather he had a few points on a fag packet and spoke from the heart.

As to a replacement in the near future well there is a bottomless pit of Cronies out there not one of whom fills me with joy. What is really needed is not a Tony Crony but a Gordon's Gopher - money is the key and a if a mate of the Chancellor could ever be a Defence Secretary then that's the one to back.

[JessTheDog]

I too have seen the SofS working at first hand and can confirm all of the things totalwar says (I must know you TW but as you're probably a naval aviator I shall pretend I don't). I would add that he is also decisive and insists on evidence not conjecture to support his decisions (that'll be the lawyer then).

Sorry, the bloke is institutionally inept! He has a leadership ability easily surpassed by the newest recruit, exemplified by his decision to p!ss off ski-ing during the buildup to Telic. His department is an absolute shambles - I was told in public by a senior officer (who should know) that the MoD has been bankrupted by RAB and Telic. The buildup to Telic was an absolute disgrace and there are plenty of other horror stories about last minute UORs, kit issues and supply issues. The treatment of David Kelly and the dissenting DIS analysts was shameful and motivated by political mendacity. The cuts announced last year are short-sighted and risible and will damage our military capability to an extent that it will take years to recover from. In short, BuffHoon has presided over one of the most disgraceful periods in our recent military history and will be remembered alongside Sandys and those of the War Office of the 1930s for his stupidity.

The only thing that keeps the military going is the selflessness and creativity of the troops and the junior/middle managers at JNCO/SNCO and OF2/3 level. If BuffHoon had a shred of decency the contemptible wretch would have resigned over Hutton.

[An Teallach]

Totalwar

You are the artist formerly known as crossbow and I claim my £5!

[totalwar]

The buildup to Telic was an absolute disgrace and there are plenty of other horror stories about last minute UORs, kit issues and supply issues. so, that will be exactly the same as:

WW1
WW2
Oman
Borneo
Suez
Aden
NI
Falklands
Grenada
Sierra Leone
GW1
GW2
..........and it will be exactly the same for the next big one....

If you can pick a fella who could be the SofS AND who could promise that for the next fight we are totally and fully equiped with exactly the right kit at the correct mod state in the right place at the right time....then you might as well run for PM.....

[The Gorilla]

I think totalwar could possibly be Admin Guru reborn!

[JessTheDog]

If you can pick a fella who could be the SofS AND who could promise that for the next fight we are totally and fully equiped with exactly the right kit at the correct mod state in the right place at the right time....then you might as well run for PM.....

A SoS who took responsibility for his department would be a start.

[FJJP]

Hang on Gorilla, let's not go too far...

[Roghead]

I repeat, why doesn't this "sharp" SoS for Defence get to grips with the Mull of Kintyre Chinook accident decision and stop hiding behind the skirts of the discredited decision making of the two, now retired, senior officers. If he does I could have something positive to say about the man.:*

[foldingwings]

totalwar! totalarse more like!

Talk sense man or accept the mantle of crossbow as identified by An Teallach

[Jackonicko]

Best DefSecs since 1960?

Healey was arguably the most capable and bright but was disinterested in the best interests of his Department, so it has to be either Heseltine or Robertson, surely.

I haven't worked with the bloke, but I have been 'fended off' by his press minders at least as often as I've spoken to him, and he doesn't seem to have a grasp of anything but the broadest big picture.

I was fascinated by Impiger's point that:

"The root cause I think is that he is a genuinely nice bloke but he doesn't particularly like the limelight and when reading statements prepared by his civil servants he goes all flat and lifeless. Much rather he had a few points on a fag packet and spoke from the heart."

Certainly when you hear him speaking alongside Jock Stirrup (who exudes high calibre, punchy, inspiring passion and leadership) the contrast is embarrassing. I wondered whether he was a good constituency MP who has been promoted way above his ability, and that seemed to be confirmed when speaking to him face to face. But perhaps he just doesn't do journos?

[TurbineTooHot]

My spidey senses detect a

"TotalTwa(r)t/CrossBow - Separated at birth" thread coming.

An Teallach, mate, I just think they both suck from the same hind tit!

Turbine Out.
:E

[JessTheDog]

recall that George Robertson was respected as SoS; he had the tricky job of bringing in the strategic defence review on behalf of a government and a party that was not seen historically as strong on defence, and was in the chair during Kosovo. He also did a good job at NATO.

Heseltine certainly had the b@lls to resign over the Westland issue!

I recall an amusing story regarding Healey on board a ship as SoS and can't remember the details, but it apparently portrayed him in a good light - his TV intervew over the Iraq war was very impressive and made a remarkable contrast to the lightweights seen in Cabinet nowadays.

Most others have been uninspiring and occasionally silly (Portillo's SAS speech) and BuffHoon is by far the worst of a very mediocre bunch. As for the other parties, I'd far rather see David Davis as spokesman on defence than Soames, and Paul Keetch for the Lib Dems is highly effective.

[SmilingKnifed]

Jacko,

Speaking as someone from his constituency I can say with absolute certainty, he 'aint!

In Ashfield any Labour stooge will get in, as the Tories are unelectable following the miners' strike.

The mark of the man for me is the fact that he has a 'self-deprecating' cartoon of himself pictured with a burning Chinook on his constituency office wall. Tw@t.

[totalwar]

realise that this post may generate a lot of discussion so Ive moved it to the chinook justice page where it quite rightly should be.

JHNED

[ImageGear]

Grabs tin hat, crawls to bottom of trench to await incomiiiiiiing!!

Imagegear

[frodo_monkey]

I don't really think I could give justice to a reply to totalwar..

BEagle, I believe the floor is yours?

[JessTheDog]

Whats the chinook accident got to do with Mr Hoon?

I bet BuffHoon asks himself the same question every morning, on this subject and others...:yuk:

[Roghead]

Please don't be a complete plank TW. Even your myopic vision could not have missed the sticky at the top.

[Regie Mental]

Heard second hand but when Buff was taken round the catering tent in a sandy place and shown the excellent tucker being served up to the troops he was asked by a junior rank whether he'd be joining the lads to eat. 'You don't expect me to eat with you do you?' was the reply. Add to that his refusal to come to an event to mark a significant anniversary of an RAF unit unless he could bring his parents, then I have drawn the conclusion he's a t****r.

Also, he may have been a barrister but any counsel worth his salt wouldn't become a politican, they simply wouldn't take the pay cut! People like Buff give lawyers a bad name. :p

[totalwar]

The catering tent in the sand dit wasn't Mr Hoon but Mr Portilooooo.

And so, he changed careers, took a pay cut and all because he is a thoughtful, considerate and compassionate man who wanted to help his fellow man....

[JessTheDog]

The catering tent in the sand dit wasn't Mr Hoon but Mr Portilooooo.

I didn't know we had catering tents in the sand during Portillo's stint as SoS. I suspect we didn't.

The real story is that BuffHoon wanted to watch the football that night. So did a lot of men and women in uniform but they were kept hanging around because no-one ahd briefed them that they were not required as a rent-a-crowd.

BuffHoon is clearly selfish, stupid and feckless!
:yuk:

[totalwar]

I didn't know we had catering tents in the sand during Portillo's stint as SoS. I suspect we didn't. ????? Of course we did. We have had Catering tents in the sand since WW1.....and during GW1 when the grey man visited us in the sand he brought his entourage with him...

[JessTheDog]

????? Of course we did. We have had Catering tents in the sand since WW1.....and during GW1 when the grey man visited us in the sand he brought his entourage with him...

Portaloo became SoS in '95, well after the dust (sand?) had settled. There were ops continuing from Saudi and Kuwait but tents tend to be replaced by something more permanant. Also, Portaloo spent his time in the Middle East trying to flog British kit.

Nope, this is a smokescreen to protect the hide of BuffHoon.

Does anyone else have any amusing anecdotes along the lines of Buff saying "don't make an effort then" to the aircrew bloke slumped in his cabin chair, and receiving the response "OK I won't"....ha ha! :D

[SmilingKnifed]

TW,

I've mentioned the Chinook cartoon before. I'd rather it wasn't put on the Chinook thread; it's already been established that it's not in keeping with what the guys are trying to achieve there.

[totalwar]

OK.....fully understand

[Lafyar Cokov]

Anyone remember the Private Eye article about the magazine published in Basrah - harsh words about Buff....

[tablet_eraser]

Ah! The magazine article... I might be wrong, but I seem to recall the following headlines:
Visit from Secretary of State hailed as major coup for morale and operational welfare.
In other news:
Pope ****s in woods.
Bears are Catholic.
Salmon live in trees and eat pencils.
Didn't go down too well, apparently!