Managed Path/RAFCARS

[s70a9]

Does anyone know anything about this scheme, and would I be right in quessing that PMA should be the first point of contact.

[mr ripley]

There is a GAI about it. However you will have to find a hard copy as this particular one is not online. Ring your desk officer as the person who manages the scheme is the Wg Cdr who looks after the JO Pilot desk officers.

[Guy Willesley]

It's GAI 6075 (I've been told.....) :O

Mr Ripley's right, as it's not on-line yet the paper versions of it have been withdrawn :confused:, although various adjeries still have the old paper copies on the bookshelf.

The scheme is administered by the good Wg Cdr who is PMA32 so your desk officer sounds like a good point of contact. You need to have less than 2 years to go in order to be able to register and "registration doesn't imply an implicit intention to leave".

[s70a9]

Could the less than 2 years to go count from any point you are no-longer on any return of sevice. As you could then PVR and be out in the standard year? You would not need to be at the 2 year till your IPP or 16/38 point. Just food for thought....

[16 blades]

Managed Path / RAFCARS

Que?

16B

[Farfrompuken]

PMA is the right place.

You need to speak to a W/C Kevin Conner. I'll try and find his number in my scrawl of notes around the place.

Your poster may even have his number

[MrBernoulli]

16 blades

These refer to the:

Managed Path - Scheme for British Airways whereby mil pilots can begin the BA recruitment lark before they have left the military. Allows one to get the BA rejection over early and concentrate on finding other jobs. If they do accept you, you can then comfortably finish your mil career knowing that you have an offer from BA.

RAFCARS - RAF Civil Airlines Recruiting Scheme. You details are held on a big list that some airlines can peruse and contact you if they think you are a likely candidate for their next recruiting drive. Need to keep your details up to date for it to be worthwhile. Only some airlines subscribe to it but it seems to be picking up.

[StopStart]

Not too sure about the BA rejecting you bit Mr B. I think in the last 2 months BA has recruited about a Sqn's worth from Lyneham :D

I'm obviously kicking myself for taking the FRI a few years back... Doh! :{

[EESDL]

95471 Ext 6142 and then lots more characters to allow PPRUNE to accept the posting!

[Pub User]

There's also a bit about it on the BA website:

http://www.britishairwaysjobs.com/roledescription.jsp?ID=4420577&MODE=2

Enjoy.

[BEagle]

No luck at Branecrank then, MrB?

[buoy15]

16B

It's a scheme ( unable to spell scam, sorry) where they give the 2 wing master race - other than the Ar*eCoat fleet - a £10,000 grant towards getting ATPL, prior to leaving into the cold.

Strangely, there's no similar benefit for other aircrew trades ?

Evidenced, until very recently, by the fact, there has never been a Nav, AEO, Eng, Loadie, or groundie for that matter, who has made CAS or MRAF.

Loving many, Trusting a Few, Still paddling my own canoe!

[BEagle]

I believe that you are confusing RAFCARS and 'Managed Path' with the previous 'Link Up' scheme. Now discontinued?

The MCAWG approved the current accreditation scheme for military pilots towards JAR-FCL requirements; this has made it simpler and cheaper for military pilots who've achieved the qualifying criteria to apply for either a CPL/IR or an ATPL.

Precisely what equivalent scheme could there possibly be for 'other aircrew trades' except Air Engineers under JAR-FCL 4? The JAA does not recognise navigators, AEOs or even ALMs in licensing terms - so what is your point?

[StopStart]

I don't think a truckie pilot has ever made CAS or MRAF either

It's a conspiracy!

blah blah blah..........

[BEagle]

Done your ATPL Air Law yet, Stoppers?

[StopStart]

Booked

;)

[EESDL]

BEags (won't make that m,istake again)
He doesn't have a point, he's doing that 'life's not fair, wasn't my fault I blew up Oklahoma, didn't want to go to war' type whinge.
If you say "Should have tried harder at school" or "You ticked the wrong box", the reply will shoot straight back stating that they have more degrees than a compass and that their deprived childhood forced them to tick that particular box............................


Bouy 15
If it's any consolation, RYANAIR are starting to recruit loads of non-pilots to fly their money-making machines.
oh sorry, my mistake!!

Oh Hum, slow day in Yorkshire.

[buoy15]

Exactly Beags

Why not grant £10,000 to other branches who have loads of hours and airmanship, to 'cross-over' and obtain PPL, CPL, IRT, ATPL, prior to leaving?

I have flown many "arranged" sorties out of ISK with the CAA examiner and about 7 pilots on board, going through the profile to get their tick in the box

Cost to them - £2000 each

CAA gets - £14000

RAF - supply Nimrod and basic crew for 3 hours - £45000!

Maggie sorted out the miners. the unions, and lots of other neffarious organisations - how come she never shafted the CAA?

I've a Navigator mate who's father is a retired Gp Capt

He was 'invited' to join the CAA, and, on a retainer of about £14000, posed one different question every year (probably dated) for the up-coming exam.

How come students are not allowed to buy books and the syllabus from graduates like in Uni's ? - The CAA insist you buy everything up-front from the start - circa £3000

It stinks Beags, and you know it !

The only thing more galling is, the RAF have, and still do, support it

Love the many in your canoe!

[BigginAgain]

Actually, Beagle and EESDL, buoy15 does have a point with regards to the system/scheme being fundamentally inequitable, purely in terms of the relative finance available.

In addition, there is no reason I know of why ATC and FC couldn't have a similar scheme to convert to Civvie ATC - this too is expensive and such a scheme would, I suspect, make candidates even more attractive to NATS and Co.

Engineering - mentioned, but not my bag. Is there funding available to get people their Civil Certifications?

Not sure if other Branches have relevant equivalents.

BA

[BEagle]

Hmm, although there are quite a few factual errors in your post, buoy15, I certainly agree that the current military pilot accreditation scheme is sufficiently generous in itself and that there should be NO Service-sourced financial assistance provided for those choosing to take advantage of it.

And £2000 is way over the top! A rough estimate:

JAA Class 1 - less than £100 if done by a RAF quack who is also a CAA-approved AME.

Air Law exam - £55

IR Skill Test fee - £637

ATPL issue fee - £194

Total - less than £1000. Mine cost me around £800 because I'd already passed Air Law 10 years earlier and held a JAA Class 2 medical. And I received not one penny of financial assistance from the Service.

And, of course, the 3 hrs flight time would cover 2, possibly 3 civil IRs. Certainly not 7! It would come out of the sqn's routine CT allowance, and therefore the perceived cost is nihil ad rem. All the pilots would have been doing would have been totally normal - with the addition of an interested observer from the CAA.

You could, of course, use your ELC privileges to assist with PPL training. Then build up the total you need to start a modular CPL course, then the IR, then MCC etc.

So I agree that all available funds should be made available for those wishing to use ELC benefits towards a Pilots' Licence - but not for those who already receive substantial benefit from the recruiting and retention incentive of the military pilot accreditation scheme.

And BigginAgain, the original intention was that similar accreditation schemes would be introduced for ATCOs (not sure about FCs) - perhaps you should pursue your branch sponsor on that issue? It was a clear HMG initiative that full civilian recognition should be granted for qualifications gained in the Services in ALL branches.

[StopStart]

I suspect it's all because life's a bitch.

The RAF and MoD do nothing through altruism or philanthropy. Every scheme or deal they offer is ultimately geared towards the needs of the Service. The FRIs etc were aimed at getting people financially tied in to prevent them, hopefully, PVRing. Look at how FRI is targetted now: ME junior pilots no longer get it (because there's too many of us) but pretty much every other pilot does. They'll quite happily see us go (which, amusingly enough, is what is happening). Boo hoo how sad never mind.

The military isn't some great Socialist jobs-for-life machine, it is subject to the same economic woes that all businesses are. If enough navs and AEOs voted with their feet the RAF would be forced to offer incentives for them to stay. They don't so the military don't. Simple.

In answer to your question about why not pay other trades cash to train as pilots.....er, why should they? (the £10k scheme for other pilots no longer no exists I believe) There is no requirement or need for them to do it so they don't - they have better (in their minds) things to spend their money on.

Is the RAF short of ATCers? I genuinely don't know. If they were and they losing too many of them through PVR then I suspect a similar scheme would appear for them too although I agree with BEags that there should be accreditation for relevant skills.

PS. Please stop banging on about your sodding canoe......

[BigginAgain]

Stop Start

Every scheme or deal they offer is ultimately geared towards the needs of the Service.

I agree for the most part, so why do we have NVQs? IIP? DPA? None of these have anything to do with the 'needs of the Service' (sorry, I couldn't resist throwing DPA in there - cheap shot I know;) ).

I have never seen any evidence of similar schemes for ATC or FC.

Shortage of ATC/FC? FCs, definitely, though I note that the latest ad on the TV doesn't mention them. It does, however, mention ATC, so I guess we are short of them (or anticipate being so in a few years).

BA

P.S. CinC Home Command reports that we are shortly departing the fix for shopping ... now THAT was never in the contract! And, whilst I'm on the subject (just to lighten things up a bit):

Scientists have recently discovered a food substance that reduces women's sexual appetites by up to 90%....

v

v

v

Wedding Cake!

[buoy15]

Beags

Thanks for the gobbledyspeak

I spoke to the 'student CAA pilots' and the examiner, after landing, and they told me, in man readable English, what it cost them, and the system.

That was IRT flight only!

That was in 89, be a bit more now of course!

Beags, you also missed out the medical - £55

[StopStart]

I suspect we have NVQs and IIP because I believe all Government departments have to be accredited and offer these things. IIP does nothing for the Service per se other increase costs of new letterheads and daft mission statements.

buoy15 - no he didn't, that's what a "JAA Class 1" is

[BEagle]

buoy15, any 1989 practices have long been superseded and are ipso facto no longer germane to the issue.

If you find use of current JAR-FCL terminology 'gobbledyspeak', I doubt whether you have researched the subject in sufficient depth to comment objectively.

Keep piddling in your canoe!