I want to fly in the RAF but I am terrible at maths, do I have a chance?

[davewhiteside]

Hello everyone!
I am 22 yrs old working towars my PPL(A) but what I really want to do is fly in the RAF!
I have a major set back though - Maths
I am terrible at the subject, and I mean really bad.
DO I still have a chance?

[L J R]

No.





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Next question........

[BEagle]

Can you do simple speed/distance/ time calculations in your head? Do you understand simple algebra and trigonometry?

If the answer to the above is no, then you won't have much luck with PPL work, let alone military flying.

[Pontius Navigator]

davewhiteside, do you drive a car?

Do you know how long a journey will take?

If you have to drive a set distance at a given speed to arrive at a given time do you just set off and ring your girlfirend when the meeting time is passed?

Do you spend lots of time sittting in car parks?

No need just do the maths. Maths is a language. Its easy.

You do not need trigonometry, calculus or rocketry (it helps) but you do need to be able to use a formula, In my day it was algebra.

Simple time and distance sums plus good addition and subtraction, the ability to convert and you are half there.

Remembering (even knowing) all the imperial-metric conversions makes life simpler.

[Smoketoomuch]

In my opinion there are very few people who are inherently bad at maths (perhaps the exception being those who have the 'numbers' equivalent of dyslexia). You have probably just been badly/inappropriately taught. Consider getting a private tutor - they're not expensive, usually university students earning a few extra bucks - look in your local paper. If he/she is not making it clear to you then sack them and get another, it is their fault not yours. Very often a different approach makes everything much clearer.

I know people who have had just a few months private tutoring and looked back with amazement at how stupid they used to be and how it is now all so easy. The biggest problem facing the tutor is rebuilding confidence of a 'failed' student, and from your post it perhaps sounds like that is what you need more than anything else.

As with many things in life, success depends on how much you want it. Try every route. Good luck.

[A good headin]

From my experience, RAF Officers can usually work out the volume of a jamjar, but then have difficulty working out how to open it.

They leave that to the WO or SNCO.:ok:

[Tink Master]

Dave,
I think your chances are 6.22E10. Does that help?

Then again 88.6% of statistics are made up. Apparently.

Maths is an essential requirement. The RAF standard is not much more than PPL (lots of 'mental dead reckoning' and 'rules of thumb' dependant on aircraft type). If you get the required quals and pass the PPL exams, go for it! Good luck.

[Training Risky]

I got an E at AS level maths many years ago, but I still managed to get into pilot training. It can be done.

Don't give up. You don't have to be a rocket scientist.

[BEagle]

Hmm - I've found that some alleged RAF-trained pilots have difficulty with even the PPL exams.....

As well as mathematics, you will also need some elementary physics. For example, do you understand the difference between density and specific gravity? Or Newton's Laws? Or the concept of vectors?

The number of thick, dimwitted students filtering through the system who thought that mathematics was something which "did their head in" was depressingly high, I found towards the end of my Service career.

[PPRuNeUser0172]

To the original poster, how bad is really bad? You need to have maths at C or above from GCSE days. That is the only official maths qualification you need to be an Officer/Pilot in the RAF. So I guess if you havent got that then you may be in trouble. Although you can resit your GCSE if you need to.

You could improve your maths with some specific self help and private tuition in the more applied areas of maths, you dont have to be able to derive Pythagoras theorem to fly a jet although you DO need to be confident with mental arithmetic in the air as you will appreciate from the PPL flying you have done.

Dont let it get in the way of your ambition though, nothing is impossible....................;)

DS

[pr00ne]

davewhiteside,

I suffered from a progressive early/mid sixties education which left me really weak on mental arithmetic. Though I had the required pass at C I still was very worried prior to Biggin Hill.

To prepare me for OASC I spent some months with a wisened old Halifax navigator who took me through endless speed/distance/ time calculations, initially on paper and then mentally. This seemed impossible at first but after constant and seemingly endless repetition I came good. Once it clicks it's like learning to ride a bike, for ages you are hopeless and then all of a sudden it clicks.

It got me through OASC but, and this is a huge but, it also helped me through what was then a horrendous thing called Academic Training Squadron at South Cerney and primary and basic flying training. Without it I would have undoubtedly been chopped either at primary or Basic.

[Always_broken_in_wilts]

Prune :rolleyes:

"I suffered from a progressive early/mid sixties education" which accompanied, no doubt by your mothers love of comfortable shoes and her partners love of body shop products explains why you continualy spout on about the wonders of "Tony the total Tool":}

Cheap shot but had to get it in you pinko............

Dave if you are really sh1te at maths and bearing in mind the thousands of wannabe's who are'nt............look else where fella:ok:

all spelling mistakes are "df" alcohol induced

[pr00ne]

Always_broken_in_wilts,

But I did well enough to get fast jet aircrew first time round, what was your excuse?

Don't think I've ever mentioned Blair directly................................

[Always_broken_in_wilts]

Obviously I am not as clever as you Sir and I thank you for pointing it out to me, please accept my humblest apologies for being a complete f@ckwit:E

all spelling mistakes are "df" alcohol induced

[MaroonMan4]

Dave,

How badly do you want to fly for HM Forces? Where there is a will, there is a way in that I failed CSE Maths (yep, you heard it CSE!) twice and eventually scraped through with a grade C. Just come to the end of a very fulfilling career from 90knots to 420 knots.

However, during my 'gap year' I just re-read my old school books, did time and distance stuff on the train/motorway/bike etc . I also added a bit of fuel calculations and CofG. A bit of humility doesn't hurt, in that get the class swot to decipher what the teacher has failed to do and explain at your level. Also, depending on your 'working' relationship with your teacher, the old 'Sir, can you help me' may assist?

As previous posters have said, it is not rocket science (I am Comprehensive educated and had far better things to do at school than listen to my dithery old Maths teacher!), if you really really really want to fly, then get reading, get 'self helping' and for the sake of a bit of an investment get a well recommended tutor to improve your confidence and iron out those areas where your maths teacher left you behind in class.

And just remember, maths is only one skill set in being a military aviator. Start digging around for the other areas that you may wish to start considering now.

Best of luck

[joe2812]

I highly recommend the personal tutor idea... worked wonders with my Physics at GCSE to get me onto A-Level!

As for home study, how badly do you want it? Do a night course perhaps? Teach yourself? You won't the complex elements, but you will need the Pure side (algebra, trig etc).

How to pass numerical reasoning tests (http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0749439580/qid=1108732143/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_9_1/202-0085800-9503015) (Highly recommended) Has things like conversion rates, improve mental arithmetic (addition, multiplication, division), s/d/t stuff, logic etc.

Visit Amazon.co.uk and search books for 'Numerical Aptitude'

Practise practise practise, you'll be up against guys who have done maths for yonks, and who won't have found it that hard.

Suck it up punk, how bad d'ya want it??

Go for it.

[SALAD DODGER]

Dont worry too much about the Maths. If you got a C in GCSE then you meet the entry criteria. However you are going to have to work hard at Speed Distance Time calculations for OASC. I have coached a couple of guys through selection who thought they had no chance with maths.

You can make yourself a much stronger candidate than a mathematician, if you crack the mental arithmatic and SDT calcs. There are lots of books out there that will help and worth a look. But the only real solution is to work your ass off. What I recommend is to make yourself a set of questions, say 100 per page. Include addition, subtraction, division and multiplication. Also include SDT questions so that you can instinctivley solve them. Concentrate on speeds and times that are not too complex such as 3mph, 6mph, 12mph 20, 30, 60, 120, 240 etc You will be given an exercise that involves extensive calculations and will be expected to think on your feet. "If the boat was travelling at 12mph for 20 minutes how far would it travel? how about at 20mph for 6 minutes? Or 30mph for 15mins?" What speed was the aircraft travelling if it took 24 minutes to cover 120miles? Practice, Practice, Practice. Use all the quiet moments, Keep a set of questions on you, put some in the toilet. The effort will be worth it. If you can get the sums instincive you can go to OASC with a lot more confidence.

You should also understand basic vectors and Trig. Keep it simple and you wont stress yourself out.

Good luck

[buoy15]

Dave

Do you mean Maths Maths, or mental arithmetic ? - slight difference!

You will certainly need quick thinking for the aptitudes at Cranditz

You might like to opt for boning up on Quantum Mechanics - slightly more interesting than Algebra - it was fundamental in putting a man on the Moon and helping people like you buy a cheap PC to get on the internet, despite what Einstein thought.

As a last resort, you could ask your mum to find a creche where they do counting using oranges and apples.

Best of luck !

[WE Branch Fanatic]

Why not try here?: http://www.rn-maths.co.uk

[joe2812]

Never seen that link before and as a A2 Level Maths stude, much appreciated! Into the Fave's Folder it goes!

[Pontius Navigator]

I hope Mr Pink reads this thread. All these 'wrong types of aircrew' who can't wait to get out also can't seem to want keen interested types that actually want to suceed to get in.

We might become twitter and bistered over the years but we still like it and we still want good mates to get in.

The mental arithmatic is what you need to bone up at. I had a nav stude with a 1st in mathematics. Yes, a number crunching wiz but "not at that speed," he said.

[StbdD]

Dave,

I recommend an investment in 'Mental Math For Pilots' by Ronald McElroy.

As one advert describes it: "Study such subjects as fuel planning, temperature conversions, reciprocal headings, turn radius, crosswind components, time-speed-distance problems, calculating true airspeed, the 60-to-1 rule, plus many others needed to sharpen your mental math skills."

A quick google provides many possible sources for it.

StbdD

[toplad_22]

If you can't get in as a pilot because of your Maths, try joining up in Logistics in particular Merlin IPT cause they can't add up either.

Seriously though Maths isn't too much of a problem, it's mental arithmetic and phsycometrics that will screw you, if you have the aptitude for a pilot you will make it, Cranwell is where you'll find out.

[classjazz]

Whatever else you do - keep going in your quest to fly. I left a Grammar School after failing Maths GCE twice and was turned down for technical training in the RAF because of the lack of Maths. I had to accept an admin job but eventually managed to transfer to tech training and went on from there. You are only bad at Maths because you think you are. There are enough opportunities nowadays to study / receive tuition and if you are determined, you are there. If you are not willing to get down to the business of studying (again) then the RAF quite rightly will not be too interested.
It may interest you to know that years later when I was an instructor that I used to have students in the RH seat, who had universtity degrees - yet who could not do the most simple calculation when airborne. On the whole did get through. Keep going.

[FJJP]

pr00ne - when did you start/finish S Cerney? Can you remember your course no?

FJJP

[pr00ne]

Must have course number on some documents somewhere, I'll have a furttle and PM you.

[JessTheDog]

Take an Excel spreadsheet and use it to make a table.

Put a selection of speeds down the left-hand column and a selection of distances along the uppermost row to create a blank table. Fill in the table with the times taken to travel each distance at each speed.

Prepare a second table with speeds down the left-hand column and times along the top. Fill in the table with the distances travelled for each distance at each speed.

You can use the table to practise working out the times/distances quickly, although make sure that the times are expressed in hours and minutes and not as decimals!

This will help on IOT when you will have to carry out exercises on the move at field leadership camp or whatever it is called now.

[jindabyne]

FJJP

My dates were Jan - Jul 62; Course No???