To be or not to be...

[stupendousman]

Hi there,

I have recently got back from a pretty intensive couple of days at OASC, and to my relief, was delivered the ‘heavy’ envelope through the door. Thank you Please. A career in the RAF as a Pilot is only a step away... but… I get the sense that I am standing on the edge of precipice, and once I take that leap…?

Whilst becoming a fast jet pilot has been an ambition of mine since I can remember, a 16-year commission is an intimidating prospect nonetheless (in particular for my long time girlfriend, who although is happy for me, is not too keen on the prospect of living on a base somewhere...). So, I was wondering if might gain a few 'pearls of wisdom' from any of you out there, with regard to what life as a Pilot in the RAF is really like… Any information at all about life in the RAF, experiences, life ‘avec girlfriend’ in the RAF etc. would be much appreciated. (Big ask, I know).

Also, on a more specific note, whilst I know that the process of streaming is performance based, I am curious as to a few points. How and on what exactly are pilot’s marked/judged during this streaming process? Is there any preparation that can be done prior to training that might improve ones chances of being streamed fast jet? What proportions of pilots are sent down each stream? And what are the current needs of the RAF in terms of pilots?

Many thanks (and apologies for the ‘Dear Diary…’ tone of this message),

'Stupendousman'
:ugh: :yuk:

[PPRuNeUser0172]

Mate your girly will love you being a pilot..........On a serious note, things arent always ideal for having a girlfriend, like living in places like Valley for a year or so (if you get there) and obviously once you get onto the OCU/front line then there is huge potential for spending significant time away from significant other. All you can do is suck it and see. Its not all doom and gloom though.

With regards to streaming, you will do EFT on UAS somehwere post IOT and be streamed at the end of that. You will have the advantage of having contiunity and doing the 60hrs or so in a few months. Based on your scores from EFT yours and every other report will be reviewed and places given out on merit. If you do slightly better than the average you stand a good chance of getting jets, however in the current climate with reduced IPS then this is going to be tougher. Just work hard at EFT and do your best, the rest is well out of your control, and at the end of the day they will put you where they need you. You will get used to that.....

Good luck

[ACW418]

Well done.

Basically you need to decide how much you want to be a pilot. You are one of the lucky few who have ben accepted for the RAF especially at this time of not really recruiting. There are plenty of others who have lived on pennies and become hangar rats to make it into some form of flying. If you have doubts, now is the time to decide - do I want to do this so much that virtually any sacrifice is acceptable.

Thats the down side. The life as an officer in the RAF is very pleasant for both you and your girl friend.

Good luck

ACW

[stillin1]

stupendousman
ACW418 has hit the nail on the head. If you want this nothing but 100% is acceptable.
P S it IS fantastic and worth all the years of effort ahead. Enjoy:ok:

[BeauMan]

Do it.

Girlfriends don't always last. Your love for flying will. As will your regrets if you don't at least try.

BM

[Splash Coxswain]

Stick with it mate. No better choice of career but it does require 100%.

Once you are through the IOT bit have no fear of being denied the right to live out with your girlfriend (if she is worth hanging on to and wants to hang on) the RAF has no hang ups about that these days and many take the option to live in their own or rented accommodation whilst they go through the training.

If your girl is with you and up for the challenge then explain to her that it is for your dream and hers that you make this step.

Remember 100% commitment and I don't mean to your girlfriend.

Splash

[joe2812]

If ya want it that bad (and to do it, you really do need to want it), why you questionning it? The fact you doubt it maybe shows you don;t want it bad enough?

But as everyone else has said... go for it!!!

[BigginAgain]

If you have any doubts whatsoever, please find something else to do, and give someone else a chance. To be honest, I am amazed you've got this far if you are struggling to choose between a career as a pilot and your girlfriend.

Of course, if you had been offered a slot as an Admin Wallah, there would be no choice;).

BA

[robfitz123]

When were you there stupendous? I'm was there on the 23rd Jan and am still waiting for an envelope, thick or thin.

[Mr C Hinecap]

Being nothing but a Blunty, I cannot add anything on the flying side. However, being a dedicated Blunty, I can say that you are about to leave home and move in with a Mistress far more demanding than your girlfriend. This Mistress will introduce you to some nasty people, some great people and some people you could ultimately go to war alongside and depend upon to 'cover your six'. She will get you fitter and fill your mind with so much stuff it will feel like it will burst.
This Mistress will make demands on you that your girlfriend may never understand but, after some time, you'll perhaps accept, even though your loved one still thinks it is barmy.

She is going to have to share you. If you really want it, then this is more a way of life than the jobs outside - especially for the flying training world. If you have found 'the one' then work with her. She has less idea than you have and just explain stuff to her.
There you go. For what it is worth.

[PPRuNeUser0172]

Biggin

A tad harsh maybe? The chap was asking for some advice and thoughts not arsey little comments from a self confessed Admin Wallah. If he had wanted to be a blunty then he would probably be on a different forum.................hint hint;)

Seriously though, you (original poster) have been offered the chance which is no mean feat so congrats and unfortunately that may raise a few backs around the place from those not in your enviable position. GO FOR IT!

DS

[BigginAgain]

DS

OK, I'll admit to being jealous! But, in all seriousness, I believe anyone taking this option is doing neither themself nor the Service justice if they can't comit 100% to their choice.

BA

[Time Flies]

I find it quite worrying that someone who has done very well to get through OASC has so little idea of what he's let himself in for.

In answer to your questions though:

Life in the RAF is what you and your girlie make it. You will be hard pressed to find an employer who will pay you £36,000 within 3 years of starting, as well as offering you very cheap housing should you require it. Not only that but they are fine with you living out, even during training.

I think it is rather blinkered of your girlfriend to assume she won't enjoy living life on an RAF base unless she has had a taste of it already. RAF Valley is nowhere near as bad as people will have you believe. Like I said, it's what you make of it.

To increase your chances of being streamed FJ you must apply yourself 100% to everything you do and no less. You will be streamed against your peers and your flying marks will be used in that streaming. Your flying marks, however, are not enough on their own and you must also prove yourself to be an all-round good chap.

It is rather competitive but I can guarantee you it is worth it.

TF

[JessTheDog]

Get hitched - you can have half a dozen mates posing with swords at your wedding and you get a ridiculously cheap house;)

[Flik Roll]

If you live out during training does that include being able to live out during basic at IOT? And you can have you house back when everyone moves into Chom? Or can you live out right from the start?

[littleme]

As far as I am aware, during IOT you have to stay in the same mess as everyone else. All part of the training. Only under very very very exceptional circumstances are you allowed to stay in other accommodation/off base. Flying training etc I think is ok. Best off waiting for a response from the guys who have been through it.

I can't wait! :ok:

[stupendousman]

Many thanks to those of you who replied to my post,

To answer some of your queries, I get the part where: when in as a pilot, only 100% stand you any chance of success – otherwise its 'flying a cargo plane full of rubber dog s**t out of Hong Kong' - get that bit.

Also I do have a pretty good idea of what 'I'm' going to in for..... just not so much of what 'we/she' is. We've been together for years now and its been quite hard getting a real indication of what life for her/us will be like once I get started, and this is an area that I have found hard to get unbiased opinions about. Had some useful comments though, so thanks (whether I pass them all on or not is to be decided).

Thanks also for the info on EFT.

Also (and now I’m beginning to sound like someone whose completely under the thumb :yuk: ) does anyone know what the deal is for getting housing when you aren’t married… or does that not happen? (I know your thinking 'what a p:mad:y'... just dont say it)

Once again, thanks,

‘Stupendousman’

oh, and anyone who was at OASC on the 25th Jan, hope all went well!

[FJ2ME]

'Stupendousman'

Congrats on the thick envelope- I can remember that day myself! Firstly, what everyone else has said about 100% commitment is bang on. There's no way you'll make it if you're unsure- you just won't. BFJT was the hardest thing I've done so far and it tested my resolve to the max at times. (And when you pass it there may not be spaces in the Fast Jet world anyway... :\ )

Secondly, be aware that you're really lucky to get a place in current times, and you'll always wonder what might have been if you don't give it a go.

Thirdly, whilst the RAF is pretty girlfriend-friendly (ie lots of good parties and weekends mostly free during training), its not quite as easy as previous posters have led you to believe. Yes it is possible to live out during flying training, but it is done on the quiet and certainly would not be approved by those in the driving seat at places like Linton. It is tolerated lower down the food chain, but its a risk you have to take. And you'll have to keep your room in the mess to avoid awkward questions = 2 addresses on Fg Off salary = v. expensive. I know people who have done it, and you must accept that it may have to be shelved if you're flying is suffering, and you may have to move back into the mess. Whilst the new rules to accommodate homosexual relationships are supposed to make it possible to get a house with a 'significant other' without being married, it rarely materialises. (I know someone who was recently rejected for a house application despite new rules)

Don't let this small point put you off though, as I'm sure you're girlfriend will support you, and she'll definately be proud of you when they pin on your wings! And if not, as has been said, girlfriends will come and go, you're love of flying will remain.

Good luck, whatever you decide.

[Time Flies]

Hi

Unfortunately the RAF is still in the stone age as far as living with your partner is concerned, unless of course you tell them you are lesbian...gay...transexual...or all three! I reckon that should get you a house!

Seriously though, the RAF will not entertain personnel living with their partners in married quarters unless they are actually married.

Best of luck whatever you end up doing.

TF

[Load Toad]

So I suppose it's summed up as:-


'You can find women nearly everywhere; but you can't always find a 'plane'.

[16 blades]

Stupendousman,

Flying Training will be the hardest thing you have ever undertaken in your life. It will take over your life, it will tax you to the limit - it is designed to do this.

It works roughly like this:

You start with a groundschool course of a few weeks, which culminate in written exams, which you must pass. You move onto the Sqn, where your course follows a pre-determined pattern of numbered sorties, each with a 'lesson plan' determining what is to be achieved. The courses tend to run as 'blocks', ie you start with intros & demos, move on to General Handling, then (for example) Instrument Flying, more avdvanced GH & aerobatics, low flying, formation flying, navigation, etc etc.

Every sortie is assessed, and you will be given a verbal and written debrief by your QFI in a standard format - a 'tick sheet' - each item or manoeuvre performed in the sortie is assessed by a number (0-6 last time I looked, with 3 indicating 'average', the baseline score to pass the sortie) and the sortie is scored with an overall numerical mark. You also get a written narrative.

Streaming tends to be largely driven by the average of your scores on the course, but many other factors will also influence, such as your personal / officer qualities, etc.

Hopefully that has given you an insight into the day-to-day machinations of the Fg Trg system itself; as for the rest-

You will be required to live in the mess the whole time you are under training. Some people DO get pads 'downtown', but this is not approved and definitely NOT recommended. Accept the fact that for some 3 years, you will only see your bird at weekends. You will need ALL of your spare time for study, and socialising that is expected of you. Once through training, you are generally free to live wherever you choose. There will be no circumstance which would see your girlfriend living 'on a station', unless you marry her and become entitled to a quarter. You will not be offered a quarter if you are cohabiting, even if you have a child together. You can live in a quarter during Fg Trg, but not during IOT.

Be under no illusion - this will be hard for your bird - she must accept that she will see little of you, and must play second fiddle to the Air Force. If she is the clingy / high maintenance type, this will drag you down and affect your flying (speaking from bitter experience here!!). In this case, I recommend you ditch her before you join. You will have hot & cold running p*ssy at your disposal on many occasions. (ok, an exaggeration maybe, but chicks love aircrew).

I hope this gives you an insight into what it may be like for you (and her) - and don't be disappointed if you don't end up streamed FJ - The ME world is just as much hard work, and filled with many more opportunities for good flying than you may think. I have no experience of the rotary world to pass comment, but in whatever guise, flying in the RAF is one of the best, most demanding and most rewarding jobs you will ever come across, on many levels.

Did I mention the hot and cold running p*ssy?

Best of luck!

16B

*edited because I couldn't spell "manouvr".....

[crossbow]

TIMEFLIES - Not striclty true old fella. A friend of mine lives in a MQ and isn't married at all - Doesn't even have a GF at the mo and he lives in one on the basis that he is claiming Boarding school allowance. So, there are ways around the "Gotta be married" rule. Although in this fella's case he won't get a look in.


Besides. Without wanting to put any ideas into his head. If he is to conduct his training including Flying Training all the way to the front line and all that with a girlfriend hanging around, then I have to say, he'll be missing out on some of the best socials, curry nights, Detatchments and pure piss ups that he has ever seen. Those few years that I enjoyed as a single guy are etched in my memory. Great times.

[foldingwings]

There you go again, crossbow! Misinterpreting and confusing the issue! A single parent with children at boarding school is entitled to a Family Quarter - we stopped calling them Married Quarters about 6 years ago!

Stupendousman(a name I should not announce during training if I were you),

Since they are now called Family Quarters, by the rules, anyone who can claim a family can have one - 2 people make a family. That stated, if there is a shortage in your area (note: not your unit) then prioritisation will occur - a points system. The more recent you are in the Service, the less points you will have. The less children you have, the less points you will have. It goes without saying that a student on Fg Trg, under 95% of situations, will have few points because of the above. Therefore, it is not that you and your girl cannot have a quarter, it is just highly unlikely, given your circumstances that you will have sufficient points to merit one. Another problem is that, apart from the staff, trg units intend to have a transient population and so quarters are popular and filled even if only for a year at a time.

Now turning to the issue of what to do with this clearly gorgeous girl!

First - How old are you?
Second - How long have you wanted to be a pilot in the RAF?
Third - How long have you been with her?
Fourth - How much do you love her?
Fifth - How much does she love you?
Sixth - How much is she prepared to give up for you?
Seventh - How much are you prepared to give up for her?
Eighth - How much do you really want to accept this offer from the RAF?

If the answer to question 8 is less than 100% then go elsewhere.

Christ, I sound like your father!

Life in the military and flying in particular is not a job it is a hobby for which you get paid. But it does demand 100% because a second's lack of attention can kill you. The social life is the envy of civilians and whilst it is not quite the same when I joined many moons ago, I have seen no diminution in the "party lifestyle" from when I was a young Fg Off. If your girl likes socialising - she will love the RAF. If your girl has her own career - she may find it slightly awkward. However, the RAF as it downsizes will (has) become more centralised around role hubs. Therefore, once you are out of the trg world you can almost decide where you want to live, settle the family and, within reason, commute daily to work; I have been doing just that for the last 6 years over 3 postings - a distance of 40 miles each way! The RAF pay me mileage allowance to do so. So it can be done, it just needs organising and it is not the bugg**ation factor that some might have you believe.

The point at the end of the day is...... If you want to fly in the RAF and the opportunity to do so has presented itself then go for it but apply yourself 100% to it. Tell your girlfriend that if she has the same answer to question 6 as you have to question 7 then together you can make this work and the offer of a career as an officer in the RAF is an exciting opportunity for both of you to experience and a challenge that many aspire to (circa 5000 applicants for a commission per annum) but few achieve (circa 500 applicants per annum get to IOT).

I'm not a recruiter but I have done many jobs, including 21 years of flying fast jets, in my career in the RAF; some of them most recently in training. If I was 18 again nothing would stop me accepting the offer again and having an excellent life flying in the RAF.

OK! The rest of you can throw up now!

[TurbineTooHot]

Dude, many congrats... Welcome.

If you thought getting in was tough and nerve racking, but enjoyed the process, and were shaking when the big envelope dropped on your mat only to whoop and holler when the shiny sheet saying yes came out, then you're on the right track so far.

It doesn't get any easier, but it remains the best job in the world. I've been kicking around the system for a few years now and have been subjected to not one but two streaming boards.

Believe me when I say that no matter how hard you have worked, and no matter how good your scores have been through EFT, BFJT/METS/DHFS/AFJT..... the feeling of self doubt is overwhelming when faced with streaming. When you get what you want, its 'kin amazing (que whooping and hollering), but you must be prepared to "lose" friends who have been sent elsewere. Further to that, you must be prepared for the fact that the system is not only moveable interms of goal posts, but no matter how well you do, out of your hands at the end of it all.

THIS DOES NOT MEAN DON'T BOTHER OR TRY. The only way to fullfill your dreams is to work you b:mad: ocks off at work, get down the bar after, and settle into your new family.

This brings me on to the girlfriend business. If you are serious, cool, you don't have to dump here for God's sake just because you are joining up. I have many mates who've managed to hold down decent relationships right through training. On the flip side, your new life may cause bumps in your relationship at first. During the first 4 weeks of IOT you don't leave Cranditz for instance.

There feels like huge pressure to socialise will your flt and coursemates after this. Lap it up. Know that you can do both, and let her know that this needs to happen. You will make some very firm friends during training. If you don't because you are never there after 9-5, then you have lost out. My best advice would be to test the water. If it works out, then great. If not, it wasn't going to anyway. Don't kneejerk to any situation that the RAF puts upon you. Always test the water.

My mate was told that it was impossible to keep a girlfriend and fully enjoy and get everything out of BFJT at Linton. He discovered that this was bolleux only after he had dumped her, got to Linton, started pining for her and then discovered she had got together with someone else. Don't make that mistake, matey.

That should be enough to be going on with. If you need any tips, hints, advice etc on IOT and future training, PM me and I'll see what I can do for you.

Cheers

Turbine

PS. Get the mess and bar staff onside early, and all will run smooth.

[BeauMan]

Stupendousman,

Okay, I know I've already stuck my oar in and said 'Do it'. But I've also had a bit of a think about some of the advice which is being given, and although it's all very good, very encouraging, and very well thought out, from guys who have been through it all, I'm slightly concerned that you might be getting a slightly rose-tinted view of how it's going to be.

Turbine has hit on something very, very relevant - your first hurdle is IOT. Now, I don't know how much IOT has changed in the thirteen or so years since I did it, but believe me, it was bloody hard work. I was engaged to a lass at the time, and missed her terribly. Yes, she was writing letters, and yes I was writing back, but she was always there in the back of my mind, and trust me, when things start going pear-shaped (and they will!) you really don't need that kind of distraction. You need to be 100% focussed on the job in hand. I wasn't. Which is why my dream ended on Black Monday.

I haven't told you that as a sob story, jeez, 13 years on life's fantastic for me doing what I do. Oh, and I'm marrying a different lass. ;) Every cloud has many silver linings :)

But all joking aside, please, if flying fast jets for the RAF is your dream, as it was mine, don't let that happen to you. As everyone else has said, you have shown enough promise and potential to earn yourself a coveted opportunity. Many of your peers would happily give a limb for the opportunity you have now. Grasp it, and let nothing distract you from fulfilling that ambition. If your girlfriend truly loves you, she'll understand.

All the best.

BM

[Big Cat Handler]

Life with a grilfriend or wife (or boyfriend or husband) in the RAF will depend very much on whether he/she (stopping PC extras now) is willing to follow you around everywhere. Whether or not you're married, there will always be somewhere on or near your base that she could live.

The question is, will she want to, or does she have her own friends, career plans etc? And, if she doesn't want to follow you around, can you cope with the amount of contact you'll get? Given that permanent bases for pilots range from East Anglia and Cornwall to Morayshire and Northern Ireland, you could find yourself doing an awful lot of travelling at weekends for not much time together.

foldingwings is lucky to have got the postings he has - I presume he's somewhere on the AT fleet, hence always going to be based at Lyneham or Brize. Other branches aren't so compact; FJ mud movers live everywhere from Scotland to East Anglia, AD Scotland or Yorkshire, SH in the south-east or NI and SAR absolutely anywhere.

Be honest about what it could do to your relationship - either she'll have to follow you around everywhere, or you might not see that much of her. None of this should put you off the best job in the world, but make sure you think about it!

[foldingwings]

Nope, FJ actually but now desk-bound. The point is that with the hubs for the GR4 being Lossie & Marham; Typhoon at Leuchars and Coningsby; and the Harrier force in Rutland etc. You can just about focus on one station if you are prepared to go from one squadron to the next then back to the beginning as you progress through your career - many are doing it now and are very happy living in their own homes! Of course, the dice might fall the other way, but we aircrew are not averse to risk and even then one tour away from home is not so bad, once you are established and respected within your particular force.

stupendousman,

If you have any doubts about a career as a pilot in the RAF take a look at the following thread on the Aviation History and Nostalgia forum:

Tales of An Old Aviator .... The Big Chill

Hope this bit works:

Aviation History and Nostalgia (http://www.pprune.org/forums/forumdisplay.php?s=&daysprune=&forumid=86)

You might never get the chance to fly C117, Avengers or the DC3 (BoB Flight?) but this man was clearly a legend and his stories are what flying is all about.

foldingwings

[airborne_artist]

I hope that stupendous man is now fully decided to take the opportunity and run with it, girl in tow or otherwise.

What is the current state of holdovers, and will those starting IOT in the nearish future expect to see holdovers shorten or lengthen?

[16 blades]

Despite the fact they have been renamed 'Families Quarters', the bottom line is you will not get one if you are not (or have not been) married (Marital Cat 1). The renaming is to reflect entitlement by those who have been married and are now divorced (Marital Cat 2). If you are cat 2 and responsible for your children, you are entitled to a quarter. If you have never been married, but are still responsible for a child, that puts you in marital cat 3. Only those in cat 1 or 2 are entitled to a quarter.

I speak from experience, as I attempted to get a quarter after my first child was born (out of wedlock), and was turned down flat. The RAF defines a family as you and your kids (if they were the product of a marriage), not you and your bird.

16B

[stupendousman]

Once again, many thanks to you all for your advice,

A lot to think about... but as most of you seem to point out, a lot to look forward to as well.

As I said, it has been hard to get much advice on this, so this has been really appreciated.

'Stupendousman'.

[SB22]

I'm an RAF pilot girlfriend - he's now on an OCU in Scotland and I live down South. We both find it fine as we are totally independent of each other. Thats the most important thing that your girlfriend has to understand. She must not be the clingy type, and must be able to stand weeks apart and get on with her own life.

OK, so in an ideal world it would be great to spend more time with boyfriend but I have always know that he was going to be in the RAF ever since we got together many years ago and he knows that my career is very important to me.

Through IOT we saw each other pretty much every weekend, then at Linton, pretty much every weekend, same through Valley and now he is in Scotland its going to be every 2 to 3 weeks - thank god for low cost flights!

One thing that doesn't inspire me at all is the married patch. I have not worked my a*** off at University to merely sit at coffee mornings and changing nappies and letting my brain turn to mush - not just yet at any rate!

Tell your girlfriend that it is OK, if she likes her own space, independence, but she has to get used to the annoyance that is travelling up and down the motorway on sunday evenings, never much fun, but its worth it to see each other - and the parties and people that you meet more than make up for it!

Good Luck!

[scotsman]

QUOTE "One thing that doesn't inspire me at all is the married patch. I have not worked my a*** off at University to merely sit at coffee mornings and changing nappies and letting my brain turn to mush - not just yet at any rate!" Quote

How very uninformed you are!

That statement just shows your complete lack of knowledge regarding the armed forces in general and insults the many ladies who have also worked hard at university and now have very good careers but have chosen to live on the married patch with their husbands. My own wife included.

The asumption that all wives on the married patch merely reproduce and do nothing else but attend coffee mornings is totally wrong. Try talking to some and you may very well change your opinion!

[SB22]

Oh dear, I seem to have hit a nerve here!

QUOTE "One thing that doesn't inspire me at all is the married patch. I have not worked my a*** off at University to merely sit at coffee mornings and changing nappies and letting my brain turn to mush - not just yet at any rate!" Quote

Read the last six words and you will see that it doesn't suit me -YET- I am still young, and in the first flush of my career. There is no doubt that the married patch provides a useful function escpecially the support that it provides when squadrons are away on detatchments etc, but right now I think that this is not for me. I am in my very early twenties, and having children and putting my career on hold are at the bottom of my list of priorities at the moment.

If you read the original posters thread, you will see that he must be quite young if he has just been accepted for Pilot training and therefore I presume that his girlfriend is also relatively young. I am merely giving them MY OPINION on how I have found it not following my boyfriend around. For us it works better to both have our own careers and for me to earn a decent salary before we do decide to settle down together.

Please don't think that I am insulting anyone's intelligence or slating them for living on the married patch, but please also respect the reasons given by those who dont. For me, I cannot do my job except where I am now,

[scotsman]

It doesn't suit you yet was part of the problem! That suggests that when/if you marry or live on the married patch your brain will inevitably turn to mush and you will have to attend coffee mornings and start changing nappies!

Why so? Do you assume that you cannot hold down a career after marriage and living in a quarter? You don't automatically have your brain removed just because you live on a patch.

I have read the whole thread. I was perfectly aware that the original poster was young etc and obviously you don't want to marry at your tender age but please don't assume that just because others do, their career should end. That gives the original poster a negative picture of what life for his significant other would become if he were to marry.

I have two pilot friends whose wives live with them on the patch both of whom are legal high flyers, my own wife is a doctor!

I would not presume to insult yours or anyone elses intelligence but you have never lived on a patch - don't knock what you don't yet know!

[SB22]

You ask "Why So?" Well, this is because the "Partners Day" that I went to at Cranwell it was basically implied that if I wanted to stay with my boyfriend then I had to give up any notion of career that I may have had and follow him around. OK, so the people who made such "speech" were the sort that did have an "abundance of time" to host these things but now I can that those who have a career were out there doing it.

Thankyou though for appreciating that I am still young and the married patch would not suit me at this time- and as this post was originally asking advice from people in the same position as the original poster - ie starting out in the RAF and holding down a long term relationship in the early stages of military life. As I have just gone through these early stages I felt that I was in a good position to join this debate and give some advice.

[16 blades]

if I wanted to stay with my boyfriend then I had to give up any notion of career that I may have had and follow him around.

You will, eventually. If you want any kind of meaningful relationship, that is. You cannot have it all, particularly if your bloke is in the Armed Forces.

Just ask the many, many wives and partners who have many years experience of playing second fiddle to their husbands' 'mistress'.

16B

[hyd3failure]

The asumption that all wives on the married patch merely reproduce and do nothing else but attend coffee mornings is totally wrong

Exactly, they also help with the flower arranging in the Wardroom.


SB22 - You sound far far too intelligent to be an Officers wife. You'll not fit in with the others at all. Bugger off and find yourself a Banker.

[SB22]

Yes, I know this and I'm sure I will do it one day, but I'm not doing it just yet!!
I wouldn't start having a go at people about the status of their relationship. Boyfriend knows that one day I will give up my career, or at least put it on a back burner, but if and when I do, it's not military law that I have to move into a married patch!

All I wanted to do is give my advice to the original posters girlfriend, and being a girlfriend in such a position I felt suitably qualified to give an honest response.

Obviously I have the wrong impression of married patches, having not yet experienced one on a front line base. However I would like to think that I am entitled to my own opinion.

Now where is that book on flower arranging.......!

[opso]

I've never throttled the life out of anyone and I have no intention of doing so. However, I feel fully qualified to tell any that's interested what it's like to throttle someone if it would be any help. ;)

[BEagle]

You could always join the married patch 'OMO' club.....

:E

[light_my_spey]

Have to also agree with SB22. Personally thought IOT `Partner's Day`, although nice, was the the RAF's initial attempt to tell the the girls; "nice you've got a career now tough titty, pretend your japanese and follow behind your good man from a distance of 4 ft". :}

[foldingwings]

Gentlemen, Gentlemen, Gentlemen (that doesn't include you Hyd3 - no gentleman would tell a lady to bu**er off).

SB22 is merely offering her side of the story to stupendousman, from her experience and at, I presume, a similar tender age! She did not come on to PPRuNe to be abused by and criticised by you, scotsman or you Hyd3 (oaf!). Please show a little bit of sensitivity. Abuse is OK for prats like crossbow but not for a young career-minded woman who is attempting to shine some light to help a possible recruit decide on whether he should join us or not.

An apology would be in order!

SB22,

Well done. Don't be put off by these ignorant fools. I am sorry that you came away from the Partner's Day with a slightly negative view. My wife was involved in setting them up in 1997 and I know for a fact that then they never did push the issue of being a "camp follower", in fact the opposite was the case. However, regrettably with these things, it is the personality of the people at the time that drive the agenda! Take it from me, I've been a Fast Jet Nav in the RAF for over 30 years and whilst the dark days of the 70s and 80s saw wives wearing their husband's rank(!), that is not the case today. I know a significant number of people from the FJ world who have commanded squadrons on their own whilst their wife followed their own careers 100s of miles away from their husbands.

Thank you for your sensible posts.

foldingwings

[SB22]

THANKYOU foldingwings!!

As I mentioned before, I was giving my opinion as I felt suitably qualified to have an opinion regarding this post.

It was great to read others experiences of couples where the girlfriend/Fiance/Wife/Partner does have a career and makes it work. This subject has caused a bit of a personal dilemma for me in recent times but now I can see that it can work with us both having careers. Great!!

I have been totally put off of pprune by the comments made by some other members of this forum and it has been nice to have some support from other members!!!

[PTT]

There's a "Partners' Day" at IOT now? How fluffy are we getting? We'll be handing out hard hats and trainers next... ;)

[attissandberg]

Go for it man!!

Live without regrets! Trust your girlfriend to do the same.

Best wishes to you! /A.

[Time Flies]

I've read the whole thread and I have to agree with Scotsman on this one.

SB22 - You don't have to be suitably qualified to have an opinion!

You do however need to have at least lived on a married patch to be able to comment. I fear you have a very fuzzy view on what life on a married patch is actually like. The talk of flower arranging and the like is simply insulting to any wife of an officer. We are not living in the 1960's anymore and the Stepford Wives mentality simply doesn't exist.

You may be well qualified to comment on being an officers' girlfriend or long distance relationships but not on being married in the RAF or living on a married patch.

These are the facts as I see them! (Opinion)

TF

[Splash Coxswain]

Time Flies,

Clearly enjoying yourself then!

Splash

[Time Flies]

Splash

Of course!

TF

[scotsman]

Quote "I've read the whole thread and I have to agree with Scotsman on this one." Quote

Thankyou Time Flies!

My whole point was not to insult or criticise anyone, but rather to point out that wives (not girlfriends) have the option to work/have a career and still be with their men on the patch.

Just because SB22 attended a 'partners day' and was given a bad impression does not mean that that is how all wives on the patch live.

Maybe she should try speaking to wives who hold down careers before she makes such sweeping statements!

[Fg Off Bloggs]

scotsman,

Yep, OK! But foldingwings had a point you were slightly aggressive with SB22 or was that just your Scottishness being misidentified?

[scotsman]

Agression was not my intention, but you have to admit that to label all wives on base as baby machines whose brains have turned to mush with all the coffee they drink was slightly insulting!

[Fg Off Bloggs]

scotsman

Just a kid trying to help, I guess.

Your humble servant

Bloggs!