View Full Version : Interesting Airbus / Boeing article


lead zeppelin
5th Feb 2005, 03:01
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/opinion/2002167360_floyd02.html



Airbubba
5th Feb 2005, 03:09
Yep, this aviation "expert" is a retired journalism professor...

16 blades
5th Feb 2005, 03:36
Wow - what a bizzare article. I've never heard so much ultra-left-wing tripe in my life!

Obviously this reporter has never visited this side of the pond - the 'Europe' he describes simply does not exist.

It's amazing how an article purporting to be about a major new airframe unveiling becomes a rampant socialist tirade that relates little to aviation.

He also completely failed to mention that the only reason that Scarebus remain profitable and successful is massive (and illegal) subsidy from the French government - he describes it as:

The combination of socialism and private enterprise

Translation: "Subsidy" - illegal under EC competition rules, but since when has the fact that something is illegal stopped the French from doing it?

16B

747FOCAL
5th Feb 2005, 05:48
Thats why Ryan and EASY flying 737s................... :E

DouglasFlyer
5th Feb 2005, 06:35
That's why EasyJet is flying B737s...

year end ------- total fleet ------- Airbus A319 ------ Boeing 737
2003 -------------- 73 ---------------- 6 ------------------ 67
2004 -------------- 91 --------------- 23 ----------------- 68
2005 ------------ 114 ------- -------- 55 ----------------- 59
2006 ------------ 139 ---------------- 89 ----------------- 50
2007 ------------ 164 -------- ------ 120 ---------------- 44


:O :ok:

Flightluuvr
5th Feb 2005, 11:14
What a stupid article. :yuk: Writing like that belongs in the circular file cabinet. The 380 was developed for the same reasons any competitive manufacturer develops a new product...because there could be a profitable market for it. It was not developed because a unified race of people needed to prove to the world that they are superior to another group. What a malign concept indeed. I hope that author finds a new career.

AIRWAY
5th Feb 2005, 11:34
I wonder why Boeing's profits are down 84% :rolleyes:

Must be world dominance... :}

Interesting article by the way.

Aerosmith
5th Feb 2005, 11:49
Just wondering,

If the so called European "socialistic" system is outcompeting the American way of doing things, wouldn´t it be prudent just to ask yourself just a few questions? Not trying to flame here, only put another context into the prevailing dualistic rhetorics that seems so abundant across the pond these days.

Subsidize the cr@<hidden> out of Boeing, even to a greater extent than today!! It reminds me of the antiglobalists whining: "Stop the world, I want to get off! "

If you cant beat them, join them.

barry lloyd
5th Feb 2005, 11:53
A retired professor of journalism eh? Just the sort of person you'd get to write a dubious article like this if you were a senior being in Boeing.
Make no mistake, they're running scared. Their home market airlines are all but bankrupt, the overseas market isn't overly interested in what they're building at the moment, and they are in a cul de sac. (Sorry to use a French expression, but I didn't want to say dead end - oops!).
Anything which is cornered will lash out in order to defend itself - it's called survival, and remember the Paris Air Show is four months away, so this is just the build-up!
Spruce Goose/A380? What sort of a comparison is that for a professor of journalism to make?:confused:

harpy
5th Feb 2005, 12:23
It's good to see the rabid anti-Americans are alive and well and blethering away on pprune. It provides amusement for some of us.

The article describes a Europe that I don't recognise. The picture drawn, of Europeans of all nations turning their backs on war and pulling together for the common good, is ludicrous. The European project is pushed along by a small political elite who disregard the views of the rest of us. Many of these people hate and resent the Americans and would like to be able to wield as much power as the US does.

European union has been tried before by the Romans and by Napoleon (not to mention "you-know-who" in the 20th century). Fortunately it failed then and with luck it will fail again.

I'm pleased to see Airbus succeeding and I wish them more success.

Aerosmith
5th Feb 2005, 12:44
"European union has been tried before by the Romans and by Napoleon (not to mention "you-know-who" in the 20th century). Fortunately it failed then and with luck it will fail again."

What planet are you from? Comparing this European democratic project, with previous nationalistic and totalitarian regimes is by far the most idiotic comparison I yet have seen. Like it or not, you have the option of just saying no.

max payload
5th Feb 2005, 18:04
Interesting read indeed.

Gentlemen, if I may, I think you're all a bit too quick in judging the article.

Opposite to what I've read in this thread, reading the actual article impresses upon me the feeling that the author is highly critical of American traits compared to the way things are done in "Europe".

Read it again.

Cheers, Max.

ExSimGuy
5th Feb 2005, 19:15
Hey! Come on! The Brits have fought the French many times over the years, and helped kick the Germans out of their country a couple of times, there's plenty of stereotype jokes about the French, the Italians, the Germans, etc etc.

Then the English and the Scots denounce each other, both denounce the Welsh, and Northern Ireland denounces all the Brits and wants to join Eire, which doesn't want it . . . .

But remember, when some S.American dictator p1ssed us off? "Hey, we're all British, we're not standing for that"!

(and I can't wait till GF has a 380 on the BAH-LON route so I can fly in it ;) By then I {might} have saved up enough FFP miles to go "up front" - or wherever that is going to be on the 380)

harpy
5th Feb 2005, 20:07
Aerosmith

"What planet are you from? Comparing this European democratic project, with previous nationalistic and totalitarian regimes is by far the most idiotic comparison I yet have seen. Like it or not, you have the option of just saying no."

I’m from the planet Earth where we know a thing or two about democracy. We know for example that merely calling something a democratic project doesn’t make it democratic. We know that the EC lacks real democratic accountability. We also know that some of the main movers and shakers in this “European democratic project” are from countries that have had a troubled relationship with democracy in the past. When I get the opportunity, I’ll take your advice and just say no.

GrumpyOldFart
6th Feb 2005, 00:59
From the article:
Airbus began as a government-financed effort to preserve Europe's airframe industry, with Britain, France and Germany cooperating in 1967
Let's see, now.

At that time, Germany's airframe industry consisted of err... umm... well... Messerschmidt and Heinkel bubble cars?

France's airframe industry had just given the world the Caravelle... (please tell me there are no longer any flying? Please?)

And Britain's airframe industry was about to be given away (read: sold down the river) to Airfix.

I imagine France and Germany were pretty happy with that kind of 'cooperation.'

JC

Fun Police
6th Feb 2005, 01:48
forgive me if i am off the mark but aside from the stupid "spruce goose" comment, this wasn't an article about aviation but more of an article about how european economic policies that come from multinational cooperation may be the way of the future(?).

Solid Rust Twotter
6th Feb 2005, 06:49
Mr Coe

The Caravelle is a classic aircraft with beautiful lines. There are a few still flying.

Caslance
6th Feb 2005, 08:40
The Caravelle is a classic aircraft with beautiful lines. And a Comet's nose.........:ok:

GrumpyOldFart
6th Feb 2005, 11:02
Solid Rost Twotter:

Sorry! I thought the Caravelle was just a flying test-bed for Concorde's NME (Noise-Making Equipment).

:E

JC

Nevertheless, the French airframe industry didn't exactly sweep the world, did it?

max payload
6th Feb 2005, 18:04
Mr. Coe,

A while ago a Caravelle was seen touching down on a 1400m laterite private strip in southern Tchad... prior to this event the crew of said Caravelle was witnessed asking a couple of Twotter drivers the way to said laterite strip... this chance encounter took place while being on ground in nearby Moundou, looking for fuel and the strip... no fuel of course, so the guys left for the strip to deliver their cargo of meat for the camp kitchen situated a few miles away from the strip. Then the Caravelle headed back to N'Djamena and did it all again.

... so, Caravelles are still out there!

Cheers, Max.

Grandpa
6th Feb 2005, 21:19
Caravelle entered into production YEARS before 1967.

As a Frenchman who doesn't idealize Europe, may I tell you I was so glad to fly Caravelle in 1967 (Model 11R was less noisy than the first ones). I can't see anything common with Concord...

For us it was the "renaissance" of our aircraft industry, building an efficient aircraft with new features which succeeded very well, after an interruption caused by WWII.

I had the opportunity to fly Douglas and Boeing, and I appreciated it from DC3 to 747/400.

Coming to Airbuses, it's an evidence that this European achievment went through a lot of innovations: Europe is now playing at same level as USA in aircraft industry....and sometimes higher.

A380 itself seems to be a promise of success, because of economy, jammed air routes and increase of the number of air travellers.

You can't expect truth to come at all times from newspapers, but I would say this "professor of journalism" made only a few mistakes in his work and should be rewarded for this effort.

747FOCAL
7th Feb 2005, 18:05
AIRWAY, :rolleyes: Get real we all know why the 84% reduction occured and that was just for one years charges. Just wait till the charge for that oversized tub A380 happens. :E