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View Full Version : E3s - Don't get too close to the enemy. The Russians are coming.


Navaleye
3rd Feb 2005, 19:41
The Russian S-400 (also known as the SA-20) is one of the newest air-defense systems in the Russian military’s inventory. This system actually consists of two missiles: A “big” missile with a range of 400 kilometers, and a “small” missile with a range of 120 kilometers. The system is an improved version of the S-300 (Cold War era SA-10 Grumble), and uses the same transporters as the Grumble. The “big” missile is intended for use against targets over the horizon from the launcher. For this, read planes like the E-3, EA-6B, and KC-10. These are support assets that are often required for successful air campaigns. Going after these planes with fighters has not worked – the American fighters are usually flown by better pilots, and usually can shoot down attackers quickly. Just ask the Iraqi and Yugoslavian Air Forces. The SA-20 is intended to be used instead.

Interesting if true. How to do detect a plane at 400km with a ground based radar? Put it on a mountain maybe...

ORAC
3rd Feb 2005, 20:23
You use an integrated system. The short range sensors (e.g. battlefield), integrated into the system, detect and triangulates the threat and feed the data back to the weapon system which needs no active sensor to launch...

StopStart
3rd Feb 2005, 20:57
I think you mean Network Enabled Capability :yuk:

Fox3snapshot
3rd Feb 2005, 22:48
Even civilian radars have an SSR (monopulse) capability out to 200nm +, Primary radar up to 100nm. In a military environment with ground based Air Defense radar I am sure in the new world of technology, they will have quite impressive performance that may exceed this.;)

Stand off assets, like AWACS for example, are often squawking as they may be in adjacent airspace which may not necessarily be military controlled, so they will be displayed quite openly on a civilian based radar syetem (as was the case in this theatre) and therefore be readily observed by enemy based systems.

This exposure or vulnerability to ground based and/or air threats would be removed or supressed at the earlier phase of an operation to allow these components to move into the closer operating ranges necessary conduct the specialist tasks required.

crossbow
4th Feb 2005, 08:14
Concur those thoughts. I once worked in Florida where the Americans proudly displayed their new radar. I can't remember the name of it but it was V impressive and absoluterly enormous but sitting in Florida it could detect a Cessna taking off in Columbia...

TEEEJ
5th Feb 2005, 12:04
The S-400 is not the SA-20. The designator for S-400 is SA-21. The SA-20 is the GARGOYLE and is part of the S-300 family.

barry lloyd
5th Feb 2005, 12:09
Crossbow -
I assume you mean ColOmbia - as in the country in S.America?

JessTheDog
5th Feb 2005, 14:58
Stand off assets, like AWACS for example, are often squawking as they may be in adjacent airspace which may not necessarily be military controlled, so they will be displayed quite openly on a civilian based radar syetem (as was the case in this theatre) and therefore be readily observed by enemy based systems.

The mushroom on top will also be pumping out a lot of energy! The ac could always shut down the radar and allow the enemy to notch up a soft kill...

I recall the threat of long range and high ceiling SAMs being discussed as a potential source of worry to the men and women at 30,000+ feet.

Red Line Entry
6th Feb 2005, 19:04
It's a common misconception that the "G" name refers to the missile system. It doesn't, it refers only to the missile itself. It is also a generalisation used for convernience. The "Grumble" missile, used by both the SA-10 and the SA-20, can refer to either the 48N6 or the older 5V55 missiles.

The Russians have been spouting in open source about the S-400 system for over a decade. How far they've actually got with it bearing in mind their funding problems is another question...