Origin Pacific

[Sqwark2000]

Heard a rumour today that OP were returning 2 of their J41's to the lease company and another may be parked up. Also one of the J31/32's is going to be parked next to the J41.

Anyone from OP in the know want to set the record straight before more insidous gossip of OP folding to the horrid vocals of the fat lady begin.

S2K

[Sqwark2000]

Dissappointing! No one has anything to share? Normally people are quick to get in & fire their shots.

So nothing to report/say about the 2 (observed) J41's parked up at the northern end of the airport past the aeroclub (1 with missing engine)?

and what about articles published in the Dominion Post a week or 2 ago about OP missing repayments to creditors etc?

Is OP on the slide again? What about Mike Pero's magic marketing plan?

S2k

[BCF Breath]

With Air NZ about to interview 180 pilots in 18 months, I hope they have their applications in......

S2K How's the young one....?

[Cloud Cutter]

Yeah, especially when Eagle have told big bro to stop taking their pilots for a while so they can catch up.

Sorry S2K, I don't know much about the situation, but would also be interested to hear from someone who does.

I guess this is a consolidation period for OPAL as they try to establish their place in the market. They seem to do a much better job nabbing charters for example. I think Origin will still be around in some form for the long term, certainly hope so.

[BCF Breath]

I heard a rumour that Air NZ almost closed a base. Tough. If 3rd level operators looked after their staff just a bit better maybe so many wouldn't want to go.

Also heard that the FO ranks in Napier are getting thinned out as fast as they are getting replaced. But the skippers are still left behind....So maybe Air NZ aren't interested in loyalty....

[centurian]

The 41's are 2 of 3 due to be returned to lease company soon. All 3 to be replaced with aircraft with egpws.

As Cloud cutter said, it is very much a consolidation period, loads seem to be good, but with only 3 41's operating, 31's are being thrashed.

Quite a few of the guys are or have gone to Mt Cook and lots more waiting for AirNZ to call. Same as the other companies by the looks of it.

[splatgothebugs]

The link operators are apparently running a little scared at the large amount of pilots on the move to big bro.

CLOUD

I can't see how EAG management can say that since they tell us that they expect crew to leave coz its just a training ground not a career airline. Perhaps if they want to keep staff they should think about paying them better.

Likewise S2K wouldn't know whats happening at OP, sorry chap!

splat :ok:

[Cloud Cutter]

Yeah, I completely agree. The fact is it's not in Air NZ's best interests to over harvest pilots from one of it's 100% owned subsidiaries. And that's the word on the streat anyway - I don't like it either.

Of course we all know that certain airlines could save sh*tloads in training costs buy offering better pay and conditions, but if they want to be just a training ground...... Perhaps they could just increase the bond period:rolleyes:

[Don Won]

Now that Op are sending back three of their 41s makes you wonder if they will ever be repalced, have also heard that they are going to be replaced with better lease deals and EGPWS but do they actually have the work for five 41s??
I mean we are in the in the busy time at the moment and they have two parked up.
Have also heard that Big bro has been asked to chill on the hiring of the link pilots but when theres only so many operaters in NZ that you can take from what can they do, and when you get a group of Air Work pilots get the PFO letter from ANZ no supprise there when the P on there planes stand for "Paid for " I guess they have to look over the whole board
Bring it on!!!

[kavu]

Origin - In other words Fools by R. Inglis Inc.

I hope Origin fold soon to put everybody out of their misery (sp?). I would feel very sorry for the pilots which is always hard but guys/gals start looking for other operators..... NOW!!! You don't want to turn up to work and find the door locked.

They losing money hand over fist and the only thing that is keeping them going is the freight runs. How can an airline have so many planes on the ground and expect to be profitable?

Food for thought

[Blue Line]

They might have two J-41's parked up but if the lease deal isn't that great & a tempory one over the busy season would be just as bad it makes economical sense to park them up, sure theres a few pilots doin SFA - wish I had lots of time off to enjoy the nelson sunshine over summer.

As for losing money, I don't think they are losing money but then they aren't rolling around in it either, from what I've heard the freight is good & the 31 & 32 drivers are flat out covering the shortfall in A/C.

Kavu - Saying you hope Origin fold , while is your opinion is one that lacks common sense, every monoply needs competition & the traveling public wether they know it or not, are benefitting by paying less that if origin wasn't around.

[anonymous50]

It seems that very few people posting in this forum actually work for the company in question, half of the posts contain useless information and facts which make a mockery of your ability to gather correct and consise information.

To the person who likes to mock Robert Inglis, consider starting an airline and getting it to the same point as Origin Pacific before you start to consider the person behind the company as a fool.
Obviously if you think that Mr Inglis is a fool, you must be the owner of your own very successful airline and have enough management experience in the field of aviation to start making such comments.
'Kavu' given that you have probably never run an airline, decide the legitimacy of your facts before you start to call people the fool.

Origin Pacific is far from collapse, given that in may of 2003 the company was reporting a loss of 1 million a month, to now reporting a profit in excess of 20,000 per month, thats a significant improvment.
The current loads are excellent with many full flights especially on main trunk routes, ie Auckland/Nelson & Nelson/Christchurch.
Remember that the passenger business is only a small part of Origins operations. Origin is one of the leading NZ charter operators, and carrys significant freight loads on dedicated aircraft on sectors between Auckland and Wellington and Auckland/Christchurch.
Origin holds near exclusive freight contracts for the likes of DHL and FEDEX in NZ.

Previous posts mention aircraft parked at the end of Nelson runway unused. These are parked there for a specific reason.
The companys fleet of 5 jetstream 41 aircraft is soon to undergo some drastic changes.
All 41 aircraft apart from JSE & JSK will as planned be returned to their lessors in Canada.
These aircraft have had high utilisation and given that over 60 newer aircraft are available on cheaper leases, returning the old aircraft is the sensible option.
The Jetstream 41 aircraft which previous posts have mentioned sitting at nelson airport unused, these aircraft have been prepared for their ferry flights to Canada and specialist crews have been hired for their ferry flights home.
Unfortunately as much as we would like to use these aircraft in daily operations, it takes time to ready these aircraft prior to transporting them home and it is just not possible to do this effectively if they were still in daily service.
Expect in the coming months to see the replacements for these aircraft, newer Jetstream 41's equipped with expensive anti-collision equipement on cheaper leases - also note that anti collision avoidence systems will be mandatory by 2007.
This is a sensible option for the company, and saves the expensive cost of equipping existing aircraft with the required equipment prior to 2007.

The ultimate fate of the airline is dependent on the loyalty of existing passengers and continuing to increase passenger and frieght loads.
Given that Origin Pacific is the only major competitor on many NZ domestic routes, the demise of Origin Pacific would be gauranteed to see increased prices on Air NZ domestic routes.
The public of NZ would definitely not benefit given an Air NZ monopoly.
In previous posts, the comments emphasising that the sooner Origin cease operations the better are definitely not in the interests of NZ travellers - the person who posted this is obviously not a frequent air traveller within NZ and does not enjoy the benefit of cheaper fares associated with competition in the marketplace.

It is important that NZ travellers consider Origin Pacific for their travel needs, dont ignore them, ultimately their demise will cost you money in increased fares and a monopoly situation in the NZ market.
It is sometimes beyond comprehention why New Zealand travellers choose Air NZ over Origin Pacific, especially when fares to destinations such as Nelson are often significantly cheaper and the Origin Pacific aircraft are faster than the saabs operated by Air NZ.
We frequently see and hear of travellers paying in excess of $200 for a flight when Origin offers the same destination for $109 at the same time of day.

Also note that Origin Pacific are not a fly by night operator, they have existed since 1997.
Their existing mix of owners are reputable NZ business people, including Mike Pero. These investors are certaining working to ensure that Origin becomes a leader in NZ domestic air travel.

Please ensure the accuracy of your information before posting here.

[Cloud Cutter]

anonymous50

Thank you for your very informative post. It’s good to get the facts straight.

Let's not forget that competition in the NZ domestic market is not only beneficial to the traveling public, but also to the pilots.


It is sometimes beyond comprehension why New Zealand travelers choose Air NZ over Origin Pacific, especially when fares to destinations such as Nelson are often significantly cheaper

It's seems quite simple to me - marketing, particularly TV and Internet. Unfortunately for Origin there is no contest at the moment, I guess this comes down to the two company's respective advertising budgets. People will always go with what they know unless there is a decent reason to change (lower fares), but of course they must be aware of it.

[NoseGear]

anonymous50.... Hi Mike, welcome to proone!:p :E

CC, the reason folks choose to fly ANZ is because alot of those people are making their annual holiday or visit to grandma and want to make sure the airline is actually going to be around when they want to travel, so therefore alot of them book with the horse that will finish the race. Having said that, competion is good for both companies and of course the travelling public. I certainly don't wish for the demise of OP, but Mike, you could sort out your pilot relations for a start.

Nosey

[Six Lima]

Might be alright trying to get to Nelson but has anyone ever tried to get a ticket to anywhere else in their network? Did a search on the internet a month in advance of going to Napier and the closest to my prefered date of travel was three days either side.

Suggests maybe their one flight a day is full, but how many other Joe Publics have been frustrated by this and given up trying.

I know rapid expansion caused the problems last time around but I would suggest that if you're going to offer a destination then you might want more than just 19 seats a day.

[MOR]

Inglis may not be a complete fool, but he is far from being a clever operator.

First, he bursts onto the scene with Air Motueka, operating between Mot and Nelson to Wellington. I used them several times, as I always try to support the underdog. Apart from some highly dodgy approaches into Nelson, it wasn't too bad, until Inglis decided to publically take on Air NZ. Result, Mt Cook 748s on the route and Inglis broke within weeks.

So Air NZ buy him out and install him as manager. Air Nelson is successful - how could it not be, given it's ownership - until Inglis decides to exercise his "skills" and start OP.

Most airlines start by acquiring an aircraft and operating out of the cheapest office they can find. Not OP, oh no. They build a lavish terminal/office complex first. Having sunk all that money into an unnecessary building, they struggle for years to make any money, using the wrong aircraft types, and with no clear strategy. Mr Inglis' skills are such that he gets the company heavily into debt, and has to go to his creditors. Having got away with it (this time), he ends up taking investment from Mr Mortgage (who already has a failed airline under his belt - and what did happen between him and Mt Cook?). Still no clear strategy, and despite my desire to help out by flying with them (as we DO need competition in our skies), I haven't done so for the last twenty or so times I have needed to fly. Why? Because on every single occasion (ie over 20), I have gone to the internet to book, OP have been more expensive than ANZ.

There was an interesting article about Inglis and OP in North and South a while back. It confirms his autocracy and reputation as a loose cannon.

I reckon Pero is about to prove the old adage, "The way you make a small fortune in aviation is to start with a big one".

It is one thing to be an aviation enthusiast, quite another to indulge that passion by investing in a couple of companies with no future. Good luck, though.

But Inglis? Lucky, yes. A survivor, yes A good operator? Nah. He wouldn't survive for ten minutes in a more competitive environment.

[BCF Breath]

The only way Inglis has survived is because of the staff he has underneath him.
He was lucky with the Fokker retireing (SAAB purchase) as Eagle had said no, he said yes then came home to Nelson and said how the F$%k are we going to do this.
Add some experienced personnel from Safe Air and a few ex Air NZ drivers laid off at the same time and he has a good team.
Not his doing, just damn lucky!!

And after getting a huge payout, who in their right mind would go back into an Airline business?? I ask ya!

We won't even touch on his treatment of the staff!!

Far more luck than good management from him.

If Air NZ had wanted to close OP down it would have done so by now. It wants some small competition there to stop anyone else.
Given its recruiting requirements, it could probably close it down in 3 courses! But then it wouldn't get its hundreds of thousands they owe Air NZ...

[kavu]

As Nosey said

"Hi Mike"

With a handle such as "anonymous50" only getting online Jan 2005 - you're an idiot.

If you had look at the fine print of your contract when Robbie was letting you into this pyramid scheme you would have noticed all the flies around it.

Did you notice that you had to point out the basic accounting pitfalls about being double charged and the inventrory not being up to scratch when you bought your share in the company.

Robbie is a sly wolf in sheeps clothing.

As for the comments made by Blue Line - Mate I love competition in the airlines but you have to be realistic about it. I was standing in Auckland the other week or two and watched plane after plane come in, and every one of them was Air New Zealand or Qantas. Now granted I was only watching between 7:00am and 10:00am but surely if Origin want to be in on the action then they would be flying into a major connection hub like Auckland.

For the newbie pilots wanting to get into Origin then find out some more facts before leaving a job in GA or instructing. Sure it might be great to get into a turbine operator but if you only keep you job for a month or two then where will you be?

[kavu]

As Nosey said

"Hi Mike"

With a handle such as "anonymous50" only getting online Jan 2005 - you're an idiot.

If you had look at the fine print of your contract when Robbie was letting you into this pyramid scheme you would have noticed all the flies around it.

Did you notice that you had to point out the basic accounting pitfalls about being double charged and the inventrory not being up to scratch when you bought your share in the company.

Robbie is a sly wolf in sheeps clothing.

As for the comments made by Blue Line - Mate I love competition in the airlines but you have to be realistic about it. I was standing in Auckland the other week or two and watched plane after plane come in, and every one of them was Air New Zealand or Qantas. Now granted I was only watching between 7:00am and 10:00am but surely if Origin want to be in on the action then they would be flying into a major connection hub like Auckland.

For the newbie pilots wanting to get into Origin then find out some more facts before leaving a job in GA or instructing. Sure it might be great to get into a turbine operator but if you only keep you job for a month or two then where will you be?

[MOR]

Actually I just re-read the post from "anonymous50" , and it is so laughable I should really respond.

consider starting an airline and getting it to the same point as Origin Pacific before you start to consider the person behind the company as a fool.

Yes, starting with a pile of money, mis-managing it, and ending up with a multi-million dollar debt. Very clever indeed.

Obviously if you think that Mr Inglis is a fool, you must be the owner of your own very successful airline and have enough management experience in the field of aviation to start making such comments.

You don't need to own an airline to recognise poor management. Any moderately successful manager of any business could tell you that Inglis is not particularly clever.

Origin Pacific is far from collapse, given that in may of 2003 the company was reporting a loss of 1 million a month, to now reporting a profit in excess of 20,000 per month, thats a significant improvment.

Yes and there is a reason for both those reports, and they certainly don't tell the whole story. It would be interesting, for example, to see how they are accounting for leases and handbacks.

The current loads are excellent with many full flights especially on main trunk routes, ie Auckland/Nelson & Nelson/Christchurch.

Loads are irrelevant, it is YIELDS that matter.

Remember that the passenger business is only a small part of Origins operations. Origin is one of the leading NZ charter operators

Really? In which case you either have aircraft sitting on the ground all day waiting for charters, or they aren't sufficiently utilised on their scheduled routes.

Origin holds near exclusive freight contracts for the likes of DHL and FEDEX in NZ.

What the hell is a "near-exclusive contract? It is either exclusive, or it isn't!

The Jetstream 41 aircraft which previous posts have mentioned sitting at nelson airport unused, these aircraft have been prepared for their ferry flights to Canada and specialist crews have been hired for their ferry flights home.

Nonsense. I takes a day at the most to prepare an aircraft for a ferry flight. All the aircraft needs is fuel and a current check, anyway. It is more likely that OP are not using the aircraft because either a) they don't have any work for them, or b) the lease company has told them not to put any more hours on the aircraft. It could also be that OP can no longer afford to pay the leases on those aircraft, of course.

newer Jetstream 41's equipped with expensive anti-collision equipement on cheaper leases

If you mean TCAS II and/or EGPWS, the owners of the aircraft would have to do that in any case. You don't have to return the aircraft and get new ones - and they wouldn't be much newer as they were only produced for a short time anyway.

anti collision avoidence systems

What is an "anti collision avoidence system" (sic)?

It is sometimes beyond comprehention why New Zealand travellers choose Air NZ over Origin Pacific, especially when fares to destinations such as Nelson are often significantly cheaper and the Origin Pacific aircraft are faster than the saabs operated by Air NZ.

The sector time difference between a Saab and a Jetstream from WLG to NSN is tiny.

We frequently see and hear of travellers paying in excess of $200 for a flight when Origin offers the same destination for $109 at the same time of day.

Yes, because OP have so many spare seats! Besides, who wants to go to AKL from WLG via Nelson or New Plymouth?

These investors are certaining working to ensure that Origin becomes a leader in NZ domestic air travel.

OP will never be a leader in NZ domestic air travel. The best it will ever be is a distant second behind Air NZ (distant third if QF ever operate domestically here in a big way).

Right that's my mid-afternoon entertainment... :p

BTW folks I don't think this poster can be Mike, unless he is trying to look very silly indeed...

[troppo]

MOR...some valid points but...

Yes, starting with a pile of money, mis-managing it, and ending up with a multi-million dollar debt. Very clever indeed.

Yes, this is very clever indeed! This is the fastest way for business growth. Mismanagement does not factor into it. If you do not believe me try a corporate finance paper at your local university. Debt is good!!!!! It is a tax deduction. You need not finance any business with your own money when financial institutions will lend it at their risk! Don't talk to an accountant about profit and loss...talk to a financier about debt to equity and leverage.

You don't need to own an airline to recognise poor management. Any moderately successful manager of any business could tell you that Inglis is not particularly clever.

Indeed, however to believe the manager of any typical SME in NZ you should understand why it is that the majority of NZ businesses fall into this category and fail to grow any further. They do not know how to utilise the financial intruments that exist. No one has ever built a large corporate with their own money!

Food for thought.

[MOR]

Indeed it is.

However, as a business person myself these days, I know that, yes, a certain level of debt is good. However, having to go to your creditors to the tune of ten mill or whatever it was, is not good. Starting out with lots of cash and ending up with debt (and losses) is not good.

When OP went its creditors, it wasn't about tax breaks, it was about survival, pure and simple.

I am in the process of procuring start-up capital for my second business, and yes the investor will take a risk - but he will want a return in the shape of equity and dividends, or a relatively high interest rate on the debt. He will want assurances that I do have a business with good profit potential, because that is where success lies... not in managing debt. Just ask Mr Pero what assurances he wanted before laying down the cash for his two recent investments.

Profit-win. Loss/debt=lose.

BTW please post the magic formula for getting investors to part with their cash... now that would be interesting... :p

[kavu]

MOR

You ask about the secret to success? Well coming in to the business with a lot of money is one thing. Mike has that. Coming into the business with financial experience is another and again Mike has that but the final requirement is being business astute and I'm afraid that Mike just doesn't cut the mustard on that one.

And for that matter Robbie is in the same boat. If you really want to get Origin going then you need business managers with proven experience and the right know-how. Why does he hire all these good guys and then they leave after a few months? Is it because he's a idiot and tries to do everything himself? Control is good but at what cost?

By the way I love the quote about being

"Origin is one of the leading NZ charter operators"

Have to have a good laugh at that one. Who pays him to write this CR@P.:p

[kiwipilot02]

OP pulled out of Dunedin 3 weeks ago citing handling charges provided by the airport company being too costly. OP stated their "SIGNIFICANT" charter operation to Dunedin would continue.Since then they have been in 2 or 3 times (sports teams and fishing crews) and brought their own ramp staff on board and unloaded baggage using passenger bag trolleys.

[MOR]

Then I guess they are in trouble!

[ZK-NSN]

I'm sure most of you like to think you have your "finger on the pulse" after reading some of what you have posted i think most of you have your fingers located up your ass.

MOR - The owners wont install the avionics upgarde or the fire suppression equipment. Origin asked, they said no. The aircraft cant even legally fly when they get back to Canada bacause of this, the owner knows but doe'snt care. Because of the age of the props, all but 1 aircraft has a 600kg payload restriction, the owners also refuse to fix this, at $100k per aircraft orign is in no place to do so either.
Clearly you have not delt with the feds lately. It is not a matter of putting gas in the plane and flying into the sunset.

"OP will never be a leader in NZ domestic air travel. The best it will ever be is a distant second behind Air NZ (distant third if QF ever operate domestically here in a big way)." your probably right, when airnz can get itself neck deep in debt and have the Govt bail it out or have aunty Helen buy them new planes then how are origin supposed too?

"Really? In which case you either have aircraft sitting on the ground all day waiting for charters, or they aren't sufficiently utilised on their scheduled routes." Just because the aircraft are out flying does'nt mean their making money. They've learnt that lesson.

origin pulled out of DUD due poor yeilds and a huge (50%)increase in turnaround cost which it refused to pay.

"Having sunk all that money into an unnecessary building, they struggle for years to make any money, using the wrong aircraft types, and with no clear strategy."
Robert "sunk" all his money into that terminal 7 years ago, when it was a charter operation and thier was no other space at NS and also with an eye toward further expansion. The "lavish" Terminal also doubles as the headquarters, 2 birds - 1 stone. What aircraft would you suggest? Robert leased 3 J31's at the start and was given another which he then sold and bought the other 3 outright.


You all get stuck into Annon 50, he's no different from any of you and is intitled to his say. He/she probably signed up for the same reason i did, because he got sick of reading un-informed rants from dropkick's like some of you clowns.

[Onewordanswer]

Yes, because OP have so many spare seats! Besides, who wants to go to AKL from WLG via Nelson or New Plymouth?
People who want to save 100 bucks;)

[Don Won]

Come on guys your not seeing the wood from the tree's Op arnt going anywhere all there doing is sending back a couple or three 41s to get better a/c ie props,egpws and lease deals.
The fact that they even have j41s means that they have a 29 seat bus part 121 preformance but only incure part 125 costs.
Dam eagle aerosexual club maybe goen on strike soon but that dont mean that Arnty hasn't got the coin to pay all the CFI's B cat's and other multi instuctors a little more from the committie.
Op is fine, they run a tight ship and keep alot to themselfs but the place has been about to go under now for about three years, that rumour's getting abit old hat. I myself liked the one about them getting jets better ;)
MOR hey you tryen to get some slides together for a new company............well Cpt MORe C*&p I'll flick you the first 5er to stop posting so much

[LocoDriver]

I have flown Origin several times recently, and found them first class. Half the price of Air NZ, took about 10 min longer, but no crowds at the check in or baggage claim. In fact at Pnth, bag nearly beat me to the baggage claim.

Co pilot was a former student of mine, that made me a happy chappie.
There are too many knockers out there, Robert Ingles is on the right track. If we support these 'little guys', hey, they create jobs for pilots(and others) means less graduates working at Macdonalds. (unless they were trained by a sausage factory!)
- that should provoke some comment!


Righto, back to the bugsmasher!
:E

[MOR]

It is not a matter of putting gas in the plane and flying into the sunset.

Well it certainly isn't the drama being made out here. Besides, the majority of the ferry requirement is in the route planning and associated permissions. I've done a few over the years.

have the Govt bail it out or have aunty Helen buy them new planes then how are origin supposed too?

Not that tired old record... :rolleyes:

Robert "sunk" all his money into that terminal 7 years ago, when it was a charter operation and thier was no other space at NS and also with an eye toward further expansion.

There was other space at NS. There is no reason whatsoever why the current terminal cannot be used for charter ops. Even if you couldn't use terminal, you only need a basic structure such as bunch of Portacabins, not an architecturally designed glass and concrete edifice. The reason behind the OP building is pure Inglis - think big, and work out how to pay for it later.

What aircraft would you suggest?

The J31s were fine, it is the 41s that were a mistake. Far better to go for a 17 seater and a 36-40 seater like the Saab (of which there are lots out there), or maybe a 50 seater or two. Stick to older aircraft, which can be had for a song and which can be maintained by an established engineering pool. Airlines overseas are still successfully using Shorts 360's, HS 748's and F27's on passenger ops, and making a pile of cash. You want as many seats and you can reasonably expect to fill, because the airline game is about yields, not pax numbers.

It is very hard to make a lot of money using small aircraft. You simply don't have the fare flexibility to ensure your yield. This is a lesson Inglis should have learned from Mot Air.

The only thing worse than "dropkick's like some of you clowns" is employees of said company who are either completely blind to the economic realities facing their employer, hopelessly optimistic, blindly sycophantic, or simply stupid.

the place has been about to go under now for about three years, that rumour's getting abit old hat

Wake up you infant, what was it that happened last year? OP are extremely lucky to still be flying.

Try learning to spell before you argue with the adults. :rolleyes:

[Puinarny]

MOR,
Mate get a life dude. I have been reading your posts over the past few months and all you seem to do is slam anyone/company you can. You do have some good points at times but to me you just sound like an aerosexual with a big chip on your sholders. Mate get off your computer and go down to your local have a few beers, CHILL OUT and TRY AND GET LAID!!!!

[MOR]

Hmmm...

Well if you check out the flybe Q400 thread over on "airlines, airports and routes" you will note I am very complimentary of an airline there, so basically you are reading rather selectively.

I am not quite sure what an "aerosexual" is, perhaps you can enlighten me. My last airline job was a training captain on a jet, as well as in an airline management role. That, and twenty years in the industry, gives me some background. I assume I am allowed to have an opinion?

I checked my shoulders for chips, all I could find was a nice, even tan.

There isn't a local down at the beach where I live, so I have to content myself with lounging on the deck and sinking a few cold ones with my mates.

And lastly, I find that I get laid quite regularly by my somewhat athletic wife, which is tiring, but fun all the same. Add to that a couple of nice rorty bikes in the garage, and I am quite content, thank you.

And chilled.

[ZK-NSN]

MOR

Dude we dont care how even your tan is,


"Not that tired old record..."

What O.P is having to do is compete with a state-owned airline, I think eveybody at Origin has the right to be pissed at this. Robert could have made a truckload if the Govt had not have stepped in, level playing feild...i think not. Who is paying for the 777's and 7E7's? Thats probably why there is so many speed cameras around these days.

"Wake up you infant (harsh) what was it that happened last year? OP are extremely lucky to still be flying."

What nearly happened at Airnz the year before, or where you too busy in your position as a training Capt on jets or your management position or riding your roary bikes (mopeds?) or you could have been jumping your "some what athletic wife" I bet she finds you as "tiring" as the rest of us.

"The reason behind the OP building is pure Inglis - think big, and work out how to pay for it later."

Did you hear of any builders owed any money? So he is supposed to try and run a charter airline out of portacoms? Your management job in PNG or Bots was it?

"The only thing worse than "dropkick's like some of you clowns" is employees of said company who are either completely blind to the economic realities facing their employer, hopelessly optimistic, blindly sycophantic, or simply stupid."

Yes i am currently on the payroll. So when i show up to the "architecturally designed glass and concrete edifice" as you so creativly put it (we call it the office) I think i pick up on most of what is ACTUALLY going on, not what i hear 3rd hand.

Don - I'll happily chuck in a few bucks as well.:ok:

[Rollie Hea Hea]

MOR- It's meeeeee, you remember? you used to help wiv da toast! It was funny that time when you put the fork in da toaster and your hair started standing up! that was a realy neat as trick.
So you a big flash as training person now, coool and you also (management) staff too. We all happy for you Redgy says hi and says he used to like playing the "train game" wiv you :confused:
Just wanted to say hi from all your special friends, cos I know you real busy like you said wiv your flash job, new company, riding your vespar's, keeping up you even tan:yuk: playing with your wife (has this one got legs?) and drinking at your neat as house with all your mates we lucky that you still got time to write stuff on the prune; anyways don't be a stranger and come hang with you special friend some time and don't forget your togs!

It's always cool down at the pool:cool:

[atyourcervix73]

Get a grip guys.....MOR is right..Inglis has bitten off a little more than he can chew at the moment. Sure plenty of venture capital has flowed in from the friendly mortgage broker...but the financial facts remain.
Origin need to look long and hard at their current business model, their yields whilst compeditive..give little room for profitability, the product's USPs..(unique selling points) are virtually non-existant, and perhaps worst of all, the "exclusive" freight contracts are ripe for the picking..should a switched on operator decide to target them.
Make no mistake, I want Origin to continue to do business and succeed, it is unfortunate that some of you on here have decided to engage in childish rants about MOR, rather than opening your eyes to the salient points hes made, and no...I dont agree with everything hes said.
Play the ball..not the man. Hopefully Origins small size (comparatively) will give it the flexibility to adapt and modify its approach...rural NZ needs it, for the sake of compeditiveness above all else.

[MOR]

Well not to let the truth get in the way of a good story... :rolleyes:

ZK-NSN

What O.P is having to do is compete with a state-owned airline

It isn't. The Government invested NZD885 million in Air NZ, and have a 82% equity stake in the company. It is a public company, with shareholders.

Robert could have made a truckload if the Govt had not have stepped in

Yeah, yeah, whatever. As OP doesn't have enough equipment to carry even a fraction of Air NZ's passengers, I find your assertion mildly amusing.

Of course you could just as easily say that Air NZ could have made a killing if Mr Mortgage and his mates hadn't fronted with their millions for OP. Funny how it is OK for OP to be pulled from the crapper by rich investors, but it isn't OK for Air NZ to be pulled from the crapper by rich investors. Try opening BOTH eyes.

Who is paying for the 777's and 7E7's?

Had a look at an Air NZ profit forecast recently? The government made a good investment. Those aircraft will be paid for out of profits. Which is more than you can say for Op's aircraft acquisition plans...

What nearly happened at Airnz the year before

Absolutely right, Air NZ are equally useless managers of their resources, and make some truly stupid decisions. No argument there.

where you too busy in your position ... etc etc etc

Sad, isn't it? Can't argue on the facts, so the poor little loyal OP drones have to resort to personal attacks. You guys really have had the Inglis lobotomy, haven't you?

Did you hear of any builders owed any money?

No, but I did hear of a whole bunch of fuel companies, caterers, and other creditors, who were owed vast sums of money because OP had spent it all on architecturally designed buildings, the wrong aircraft, and a deeply suspect operational strategy.

So he is supposed to try and run a charter airline out of portacoms?

Ever heard of a company called Easyjet? Quite successful, they are. They started their operation in a scummy old maintenance shed, and, guess what- they are still there. They have steadfastly refused to succumb to the temptation to sink their profits into buildings. Instead, they sink it into aircraft, training, and marketing. Check out their profits. They have never been in the sorry position OP were last year. They were more successful in their first three months of operation than OP have ever been, or ever will be.

Ryanair - ever heard of them? - have similarly humble headquarters. These guys understand the commercial realities of aviation, which is more than you can say for OP.

Yes i am currently on the payroll

...and it shows...

I think i pick up on most of what is ACTUALLY going on

I don't think you know your arse from your elbow.

It is one thing to be passionate about your company, it is another to close your eyes to reality.

Rollie Hea Hea

I have no idea what you are on about. Just another moronic abusive poster as far as I can see, with precisely nothing to contribute to the discussion. Why do you bother?

[Thump & Go]

Rollie did you add 2 and 2 together and get 22?

[Fark'n'ell]

NSN,

Congrats on your new job. Will you still be flying the flag for ORIGIN when you leave.

[CT7]

ZK-NSN
I wouldn't bag the big airline too much.
Have you recently noticed that RI has stopped blaming ANZ for ALL of HIS woes....
Maybe because they (AirNZ) didn't ask for their hundreds of thousands back that they are owed....
If they wanted to, they could close down OP with one or two intakes.

[cnsnz]

Yeah now Ralph Norris is blaming the big airlines for his.

[cnsnz]

Yeah now Ralph Norris is blaming the big airlines for his.

[ZK-NSN]

Fark - Thank's dude. I'll still back the place...somebody has to.

I had to have a bit of a laugh when i spotted Ralph on TV wining about the big boys not playing fair in the Tasman sandpit. It is reasonably close to what ANZ did on the domestic market. There is always a bigger fish.

CT7: Then why dont they? They did'nt ask for thier money because they didint want to look like w#nkers and (excuse the spelling) it might have been a little hipacritical (?) for them to do it after borrowing $800m a year earlier.
Air nz need competition in the regional market, so when they shaft people $350 for a NS/WN sector they can say "go to the competition."

[BCF Breath]

I wouldn't call them competition. Some other operator maybe, but not competition.

Oh, and next time, type first then have the booze.