World's longest mail run

[Desert Flower]

As from the end of this month, the mail run touted as the World's longest will undergo major changes. The run, which has been done over the years by PAGAS, Augusta Airways, Airlines Of South Australia & lastly AirNorth/Airlines Of South Australia will be taken over by West Wing Aviation from Mount Isa. Instead of the weekend, the run will be done on Wednesdays/Thursdays. Several stops have been dropped, & the overnight stop will now be done at Birdsville instead of Boulia. The aircraft they will probably be using is a C402B, with only one pilot. They will only be taking tourists if & when their loading permits. Should all be
VERY interesting!

DF.

[11percent]

That's two major contracts that ASA had an Airnorth have lost since taking over. Well done to all concerned!!! The expression "could not organise a root in a brothel" comes to mind.

When the stuff up Port Lincoln (and rumours are that the Braz is about to get pulled off and sent back to Darwin), they will be left with a PA31 run (YPAG to YPAD). Isn't that what PAGIS started with in the early 1970's? I suppose that is progress.

Then again, they have bought EMU. Maybe they can buy WW and VH aviation and rebuild what they started with 18 months ago?

[tinpis]

Ah.....PAGAS !
Have done that mail run in the olden daze in a 210 and a Cherokee 6.Overnight 2 nights in the Birdsville boozer. What a cracker of a trip it was.
Fond memories of Bruce Bretherton RIP.

[Pinky the pilot]

The mail run used to be the 'jewel in the crown' as far as TK and CK were concerned. Rather sad to see it go.

You only live twice. Once when
you're born. Once when
you've looked death in the face.

[tinpis]

PAGAS ran a clapped out old 402 and a clapped out 310 and had the Flyin Doc contract .operating a nice B58 and clapped out Cher 6
Williams took over the RFDS.
EMU was little Lancie chuggin back and forth in a clapped out 402 with a packet of ciggies jammed in the instrument panel.
:p

Tin will look in his log to see if he put down the station stops on the mail run.

[Desert Flower]

Didn't PAGAS use a Vatican Cessna (Partenavia) on the run? I've got a video somewhere of it, & the pilot (won't mention names) had to change a flat nosewheel tyre.
EMU was little Lancie chuggin back and forth in a clapped out 402 with a packet of ciggies jammed in the instrument panel.
And with a ciggie jammed in his face too! Can still remember him getting out of the plane with one going, & another day when he spilt Avgas down his pants & dropped them without a second thought for the passengers! And ringing his missus on his mobile to tell her he'd just done (yet another) wheels up landing! :D
Tin, would be interesting to know all the old stops. It used to end up in Mt Isa on the Saturday many years ago.
DF.

[tinpis]

Desert Tin does remember havin a slow leak in a mainwheel on Cherokee 6 whilst doing the mail run.Every second stop the station folk blew her back up and I continued on my way.Was dead flat in the morning at Birdsville just blew her up and again at Leigh Creek I think. :p
Piece a cake to an old New Guinea hand:}
The only thing I found a little annoying was the bloody kangaroo in the bedroom block at the Birdsville boozer ..I'm not real sure about them folk up there.

[tinpis]

Looked in old log and seems i just put AD PAG- LC-all stations BDV.
Then next day BDV all stations- Boulia Bedourrie BDV.
Next day BDV - LC - AD.
Was 16. 5 hours total in old PA32 VH -PDD
Bloody fun tho.:ok:

[mootyman]

You are right 11percent the braz is going back to Darwin. It is to be swapped with another aircraft so it can have work perormed on it. Maybe Airnorth couldn't organize a root in a brothel or maybe they didn't want to put in a tender so low it hurt the company. Surely you have seen the results of companies undercutting each other for a tender.

[Desert Flower]

In all fairness I should say that as far as I know AirNorth/ASA no longer wanted the mail run & therefore I believe did not tender for it again.

DF.

[11percent]

I understand on good authority that a great deal of time and effort went into tendering for that contract. It would seem a very strange thing to do for something you do not want?

[Pinky the pilot]

I heard so many different rumours about AN's attitude to the Mail run that in the end I gave up wondering.
Rumours varied from 'they don't want to keep it' thru 'they could'nt care if they got it or not' to 'they really want to keep it'
All the usual rumours really. However I guess that it's all rather irrelevant now.:(

You only live twice. Once when
you're born. Once when
you've looked death in the face.

[teletubby]

Watch this space. I have heard Westwigs GUN pilot is kicking the run off with THE pride of the fleet. NO probs expected. You heard it here first.

[Desert Flower]

THE pride of the fleet.
Which is.....???

DF.

[teletubby]

B Model four o twice

[Desert Flower]

B Model four o twice

So they call a 30 year old C402B the pride of the fleet? :{

DF.

[teletubby]

Would'nt matter if the machine was 50 years old. This guy could make it sing. I tell you a new standard of service and efficiency is headed for the Biggest Mail Run in The World.

[Lefthanded_Rock_Thrower]

"Gun Pilot", i've flown with him, he's crap!.:).

No really he's a great bloke and the right man for the job.

[Dog One]

Teletubby

Do tell us more about the expected new standard of service and efficiency on the world's longest mail run using a Cessna 402B!

Having, like many people flown 402B's when they were new, can't imagine the words service and efficency being in the same sentence as a thirty year old Cessna 402. I would imagine that during summer, a 402B will be more limited than a Chieftain, especially with temps going 40+.

Reading between the lines, ASA were carrying passengers for hire and reward, there fore I am sure CASA would have had put requirements on the operation. Any additional requirements add costs, which in turn inrease the tender price.

Over the years we have seen many examples of start up operators who eventually fail because they cannot make a profit . The latest example is GWA. Their cheap fares didn't help anyone, especially now, when both ASA and REX won't accept the tickets.

Perhaps ASA did want the tender, but only at a price that they could make a profit. Airnorth have been around for a long time now, probably in excess of 20 years, and are pretty experienced in contract and RPT operations, and despite all the knockers, continue to grow and provide employment for about 80 aircrew.

[teletubby]

"Airnorth been around probably in excess of 20 years". WOO HOO!

Mate the Chief Driver of WW has about 40 years experience. Ex Vietnam (several confirmed kills) and used to fly for the Queensland Police Service so if he doesn't know about performance on bush strips who does?

The quality of the pilots and machinery involved in this cannot be understated!

[Desert Flower]

I would imagine that during summer, a 402B will be more limited than a Chieftain, especially with temps going 40+.

The MTOW of the C402B is less than the Chieftain. Even if it has a VG kit fitted they will still run into problems when the temp hits 40.

Ex Vietnam (several confirmed kills) and used to fly for the Queensland Police Service

Well that might be useful where some of those nasty station owners are concerned. If they get stroppy with him he can sort them out quick smart! :E

DF.

[Dog One]

Is the CP intending to do the run every week?

Certainly have to agree with Desert Flower re the stroppy station owners, from what I have heard, they tend to have short wicks.

I guess all we can do now is sit back and watch the performance of WW and see what they achieve.

For info Teletubby, you don't have to be an ace to operate aircraft in and out of bush strips as long as the strip meets the requirements, the aircraft is correctly loaded and the pilot is suitability experienced on the type.

[Pinky the pilot]

With ASA the mail run was an RPT run and CASA had required a two pilot op as due to the number of stops it was not possible to shut the Chieftain's engines down at every place of landing. For instance; on the northbound leg (Saturday) the only shut downs were at Leigh Creek for fuel and that days mail, Innamincka, (Moomba if req. as a fuel stop only, which was rare) Ballera; fuel only, Birdsville; for fuel, lunch and to pick up mail, and finally Boulia for the overnight.
Southbound (Sunday) was once again Birdsville for fuel and mail returns, Mungerannie for lunch and Leigh Creek for fuel and to drop off Saturdays returns.
On numerous occasions the Chieftain left Leigh Creek at the MTOW of 3342kg with only the two pilots and two pax. I once remember only one pax and still being at max. And leaving Birdsville with the MTOW back to 3175kg due to high air temps we were regularly at MTOW.
There are indeed interesting times ahead!
Oh and BTW, Teletubby; As Boulia and Bedourie have been dropped from the run I suspect that it no longer qualifies for the title of the World's longest/biggest Mail run.:{ :{

You only live twice. Once when
you're born. Once when
you've looked death in the face.

[teletubby]

No. I don't think the CP will do the run each week. He has far more important matters to attend to then flying.

The A/C indeed has two engines however on the shorter sectors it is unlikely that both will be used thereby causing a saving in fuel, maintenence costs etc.

The level of infrasructure and support going into this operation is unparalled.

[colonel hannibal]

ahhhh the mail run.

I was taken on that run a few times, and taught the ins and outs of it... including the "GARLIC BREADS".

Temps in the 40's ???? that must have been a cool day. I think that the highest I ever saw was 56C when landed at Boulia at 1530.

The chieftain, PINKY, was only run with TWO pilots due to the COMPANY stating that it was a lot better for the engines.... NOT CASA, as you said.

Anyone who has tried to start a PA31 engine when it is hot, will testify to the fact that it can be hard to start. When one is time limited, like on the mail run, then the last thing you need is to be slowed down by 5 mins or so at EVERY station.... this can add an hour to an alredy long day(s).

With regards the strips, most of them were in good repair, and the owners knew that they had a responsibility to ensure that they were up to scratch. Having said that, sometimes you had to see for yerself and not trust their word.

Boulia itself is a great little country town, and i enjoyed staying there. Birdsville is great as well, but I would prefer to stay in Boulia - The pub just has more atmosphere.

The people up and down the mail run were great, and I never had many problems there, however if you p!ssed them off, then you would know about it.

A great run, and great experience.... glad I did it, and glad I am not doing it any more!

new blokes doing the run.... respect DF, and she will treat you well. She likes fruitcake, and we always used to take as much fuel as possible from YLEC to keep her happy, as she always helped us immensely.

[teletubby]

I thought two pilots were required so one could check the oil and report back on the rollout that he thought that he secured the overcentre thingy but well I don't Know really. And then the other pilot could react immediately. Feather the right prop and pull the mixture on the left engine. Result, well thankfully no-one killed.

[Desert Flower]

The A/C indeed has two engines however on the shorter sectors it is unlikely that both will be used thereby causing a saving in fuel, maintenence costs etc.

What, so they're going to take off/land on one engine are they? That should DEFINITELY be interesting!

DF.

[teletubby]

DF It would seem that you are new to the industry. Obviously both engines MUST be used for take-off. En-route and landing however is optional. Check your AIP.

[Desert Flower]

DF It would seem that you are new to the industry.
I wouldn't say 16 years is new to the industry, would you? And any operator who would shut down one engine in flight to cut costs is very shonky as far as I'm concerned.

DF.

[Desert Flower]

colonel hannibal, check your PM's!

DF.

[Pinky the pilot]

Colonel Hannibal; You're correct in saying that it was a company directive originally. However late in CK/TK's time of the company it did become a CASA requirement. I was told this by the C@T person at the time.
Ah yes; the Garlic bread!:ok: Definitely was an essential part of dining at the Australian Hotel at Boulia.

You only live twice. Once when
you're born. Once when
you've looked death in the face.

[Desert Flower]

Way back in '89 when Augusta Airways (as it was then) had to use their C402B on the mail run because the Aerocommander was in for a repaint, it was ALWAYS operated with a second person as a loadmaster. It was their job to unload/load mail & freight at any stop where the aircraft didn't have to refuel. I can only remember three stops where we did shut down, Innamincka, Birdsville & Boulia.

DF.

[JohnnyWoo]

Arrr the mail run .... what fond memories..... Its all coming back to me now....:E

Having one of ACZ's bendix drives give up the ghost in Arabury in 50 degree heat. Spending the night there with the station guy who hadn't seen anyone in 6 months... then running out of smokes. :\

Oh and how could i forget ACZ's right engine letting go at top of descent into Boulia...

But it did have its enjoyable moments, especially the people you ran into.

[Desert Flower]

Oh and how could i forget ACZ's right engine letting go at top of descent into Boulia...
Wonder if they ever found the dipstick from that episode?
Oh, & the "pride of the fleet" that WW were supposed to be kicking off the run in won't be doing it for about a month. Instead they are using a Baron, which was ferried to YPAG today. Seems like someone had their information a little wrong....:8

DF.

[bush mechanics]

Teletubby,
Are you for real?Ive never heard of anyone shuting down a
engine to conserve fuel.
Mate Im just glad theres are few thousand miles between you and me.
Struth GA is truly full of stem beaters!!!

[teletubby]

No, but I'm seeing a few wally's here ready to splutter into their coffee and believe any outrageous twaddle about the new operator.

BTW who recalls the Getaway program screening a story on The Longest Mailrun in the world. CASA Adelaide did more than splutter into their coffee at the sight of the pilot removing a wheel at Boulia to have the tyre repaired by the local car mechanic. Class A and all that!

[olderbutyzer]

Oh and how could i forget ACZ's right engine letting go at top of descent into Boulia...

And what about the time it was put down on an Adelaide beach (by someone who shall remain nameless!) after having a double engine failure? I believe the old girl is still flying, albeit under a different rego. Loved that aeroplane!

[questil]

gh was an instructor of mine and found him a top bloke did a pretty good job of the beach landing, the eng failures were found to be the perished inlyer of the fuel tanks.

[Desert Flower]

Yep, top bloke & he done a great job putting it down where he did. However his initials are JH not GH.

DF.

[Dog One]

Any one remember the month/year that the beach landing occurred

[Gudija]

March, 1993 I believe.

Edited for incorrect information.

[bingomakintosh]

Bush Mechanic

"shutting one engine during flight"

I have flown with a few folks who have shut down engines to conserve fuel. Some of them I commend their actions in the situations as their options were running thin and this saved their lives.

If you need to increase your endurance you will do anything you have to.

I guess you forget that from your GA days.

B

[tinpis]

Jeezaz to the above......:ooh: :ooh:

[teletubby]

Thats right! Shutting an engine down cuts your fuel consumption by HALF.

[tinpis]

This is a Queensland SOP right?

[teletubby]

Too right mate aye!

[Pinky the pilot]

Well now that the new operator has been doing the run for a few weeks, does anyone have any information on how they are doing? One thing I have heard whispered is that whoever has been flying it has been somewhat reluctant to take any advice from anyone associated with the previous operators.
Teletubby; I would appreciate it if you refrained from making any comment whatsoever! I wish to read serious comment, not sycophancy or fantasy!

You only live twice. Once when
you're born. Once when
you've looked death in the face.

[bush mechanics]

Bingomash,
In a emergency you do what you have to do get your self on the ground in one piece.I wouldnt be patting anyone on the back for shutting one down just to save fuel.
Your mate telefluppy is saying in normal operations you can shut one down to save fuel.
My questions to Mr teledummy are as follows.
1.After shuting one down will the a/c maintain height and speed?
2,What could you expect the live engines Temps and pressures to do.?
3,What will happen to the operating engines fuel consumption?

[Super Cecil]

If shuting one engine down saves fuel then shuting 2 down would save twice the fuel :8

You blokes need to have a bex and a lie down if you think this tellytubby bloke is not trying to wind you up.:} he must have been thinking of an Orion he used to fly.:}

[tinpis]

Comet 4 of Danair cargo shut down outers in crz.
Maybe tubby was flying one of them?

[Desert Flower]

It appears that the "Pride of the fleet" (the 402) is still a long way from being ready. If they are still using the Baron when the tourist season kicks off further up the track they may find it's just not quite adequate for the job.

DF.

[Pinky the pilot]

Thanks DF. I'm still somewhat surprised that they intend using a 402 'though. As you said in your last post, come tourist season there will be a few problems.
I still remember one morning loading near enough to 200kg of stuff for Innamincka alone!
BTW, any idea why they shifted the run from the weekends to Wed/Thurs? Would have thought that such a move would have upset quite a few of the station people. They were quite used to having the run on the weekends. Still remember the small hassle when Roseberth and Durrie were changed from the Sunday to Saturday.

You only live twice. Once when
you're born. Once when
you've looked death in the face.

[colonel hannibal]

BRING BACK THE SHRIKE!!!!!!


I used to refuel load that beast.... and it WAS a BEAST!!!!!

It could handle MORE frreight ( area wise) than a chieftan / 402 .... was more pax friendly than a PA31/402 ....... and was a LOT cheaper due a lower fuel flow, no turbocharger etc etc,...

I have NEVER flown either three... but have done a bit of study on all types, as well on the run itself ...... MAYBE, the PA31 is NOT the best a/c for the run ?

once again... I am NO expert. Have NEVER been on the run, or flown an AC50 ..... HOWEVER.... by the books.... at 40+C .... maybe the AC50 IS the way to go ????

[Desert Flower]

BRING BACK THE SHRIKE!!!!!!

Yes, yes, yes!!!!! Was told they were tossing up between a Chieftain & a Shrike. Said forget the first (anyone who knows me knows how I feel about them) & go for the Shrike. Can remember removing the back seat in ol' ACZ, & stacking her to the max. with fuel & freight. Ah, those were the days!

DF.

[tinpis]

Hmmm ....PAGAS had a Shrike on the Port Agutter- ADL run didnt they?

[Roost]

Seems like everyone is having a guess about whats going on, one thing is for sure the operater and management team is as good as it gets when it comes to adapting quickly and finding the right machine for the job. The bloke at the helm of WWA can adapt very quickly in any industry and I don't think there are many operations people more qualified then those behind the desk at WWA, i.e. the Girls. Being from the cattle industry himself I don't think PC would leave any stops out by chioce. However mail runs all over Australia were re-evaluated last contract, that was Austalia Posts deciscion.

What will end up on the run is the right Aircraft for the job, the shrike was talked about, but hey if there are enough tourist and a titan is needed then thats what it will get if warrented. And that will make life easy for the pilot, they out perform the cheiftain, there great to fly, there nice to ride in. Would be a great job. . .

Would love to have a go at it myself, a know a number of the guys and girl that have done it in the past. As for there gun pilot in the pride of the fleet, well the stand is hi out there, But no one but Ernie is th GUN.

[Pinky the pilot]

Tinpis; If memory serves correctly PAGAS had a Partenavia which was used on the then mail run and on the Pag-Adl service. When TK/CK bought ID out and started Augusta Airways they had the Partenavia and (J)AWS the A mod. 402. Later the Partenavia was replaced with the Shrike Commander ACZ and an A mod. 421 AAI was purchased.
Both the 402 which went to EMU and the 421 were in due course were replaced by Chieftains and the Shrike was used on the mail run as well as the Pag-Adl service.
Roost; A Titan would be the worst possible aircraft to use on the mail run!

You only live twice. Once when
you're born. Once when
you've looked death in the face.

[Roost]

Given the types use, how could a Titan be bad. Think u need to check your figures and Stats. Take into account pax comfort, ease of operation, airflow for pax on the ground. Fuel load, fuel burn. ease of hot start.

Would like some specific of such a big and unsubstancitated call.

[apache]

Would like some specific of such a big and unsubstancitated call.

How about Gravel runways and Low hanging props ?

How about many engine shutdowns and restarts?

How about low wing restricts pax view?

How about +35C temps, and short(ish) runways, not always dry? .... last I looked, the Titan wasn't STOL.

Just a thought.

[tinpis]

You mean there are passengers wanting to travel the BDV track these days??:confused:

[Desert Flower]

and an A mod. 421 AAI was purchased.

Close, but no cigar! AAI is a B model.

DF.

[Roost]

Boys you really need to do some research -


The Titan has more prop clearence then most of the types mentioned doing the run previously, i.e. c210 , cherokee six, Baron, c402a & b, Cheiftain.


It will also get into and out of short strips better then the c402a&b and Cheiftain. Perform better in 35c+ temperatures.

I agree the shrike would be very good, and have no coment on the Partenavia, as I have not operated that type. However a coment like Titan being the worst, you have no idea and are nowhere.

You better look again if you don't think the titan is just as STOL as some of the types that have done the run. Yes the shrike MAY out STOL the titan.

As for wet runways, the Titan once again comes in trumps as its tyre size is greater then most.

PAX view, the titan has great view because of window size and if you want to lookout, ask for a seat not on the wing. There are always pax that have seen it all b4.

Number of engine starts and shutdowns, the 404 is as easy as any other to start and perhaps a little easier then the C402a&b, Baron and definately easier then the Cheiftain.

[Lefthanded_Rock_Thrower]

Roost,

There are a number of advantages to a C404, but it is not the machine for the PAG run.

I know of a number of C404's in FNQ that have had their nose oleo snap off on rough / sloppy strips ( i.e 2 U/S engines and props, do the maths),

A titans engine cost around $85K, whereas a C402 is around $50K,

Titan is slow compared to a C402 160 V's 175 knots,

You might want to go and have a closer look at HOA's blades, theres definately damage there, and thats been operating pretty much exclusively off Tar Strips with the oleo's jacked right up,

The GTSIO engines need to be handled delicately, which is definately not the technique used on the 800 metre strips you would fly on,

Most of WWA's Barons go Check to Check without need for a trip to the maintenance hangar, can not say the same about C404 / C402 (A or B) for that case.

Compared to a baron, the C404's are more frequently eating starters and alternators,

STOL, you either have it or you don't, its not a case of selecting "STOL factor five", HOA is not STOL,

I'd reckon a Baron or Shrike is the machine, flick the day trippers and focus on the service to the stations, no Turbo's or GTSIO's, light foot print and a proven record in the Gulf / Western for the mail runs, good TAS V's FF.


:)

[Pinky the pilot]

Roost; The posts by Apache and the Lefthanded one have said it all. Question for you; are you familiar with the run in question? ie have you flown on it yourself? Judging by your comments I would suspect not. It would therefore be prudent of you to do a bit of research yourself before criticising.
I stand by my statement that the Titan would not be suitable and would be the worst type for this run.

You only live twice. Once when
you're born. Once when
you've looked death in the face.

[Roost]

HOA's props are done alot less then any of the Baron's. Once again do your research. Run my hand across the props today, they look fine, and some times of the year HOA does operate into more unsealed strips then sealed, once again do your research.

As for a degree of STOL, it is an infinate scale, you do the charts.

If you have flown a porter you may beleive there are different degrees when you go back to your shrike.

If you compare TAS:FF baron comes out better, try this one TAS:FF:KG payload. Because with out payload the formula is useless.

I know your wrong on your starters and alternator facts, the barons are doing them more often also, and there drives.

Pinky at least my coment is not far fetched, WORST: run the figures on a comet 4 or a Drifter.

Have been to all the strips, have done the research, have crunched the numbers in detail. That is safety, comfort, performance and safety.

So stand by your statement the Titan would be the worst, because I could name you a hundred worse types. I think you may have over done it abit.

GTSIO engines do need to be handled carefully, but that depends on the pilot not the airstrip.

"What will end up on the run is the right Aircraft for the job, the shrike was talked about, but hey if there are enough tourist and a titan is needed then thats what it will get if warrented. And that will make life easy for the pilot, they out perform the cheiftain, there great to fly, there nice to ride in. Would be a great job. . ."


I never even said the Titan would go on the job, I didn't say it would be the best for the job, just made a passing comment. And I stand by my coment. Would be a great job.

[Lefthanded_Rock_Thrower]

Roost in the very short time you've been at WWA, you've seen very very little.

The "boys you really need to do your research" line is getting a bit old.

Quote: "At some time of the year HOA runs into dirt strips more often than tar ???", Lake Nash and ???? , and ????, and ????.

The Titan is a great machine, but not the one for the PAG mail run, your die hard "it's the best aeroplane in the world" attitude is sadly blinding the obvious.

http://www.crosswindsstol.com/prod01.htm , STOL is a kit, i.e the aircraft primary flight controls get modified to allow the aircraft to fly at slower speed.

Quote "I know your wrong on your starters and alternator facts, the barons are doing them more often also, and there drives", refer para 1.

Good on you for loving your job, but do some research before shooting your mouth off as there are people on this site that have forgotten more than you know about said topic.

[Pinky the pilot]

Has anyone heard how things are going with the new operator of the run? Seems awfully quiet.

You only live twice. Once when
you're born. Once when
you've looked death in the face.

[apache]

yes, It IS awfully quiet. The again, why brag about Sawtoothed props and excess braking, and GTSIO's not making TBO's ?

Then again, maybe it is all going well !

Is the Titan on the run ? How has it coped with "less than dry" strips?

Still seeing the photo of the C402 on it's nose at Mungarannie after a tight turn!

Whatever the outcome, enjoy the run. Some of the best flying you will do.

[olderbutyzer]

Latest rumour is that WW is applying for a RPT license.

[Lefthanded_Rock_Thrower]

OB,

for info: WW already has an RPT licence, just an increase for 20 odd ports.

The Titan is not on the run to the best of my knowledge, was initially a B58 whilst C402 has SID.

[colonel hannibal]

Having watched closely this run over the last few years, I must admit that i thought the previous two mobs were a bunch of NFI's!

HOWEVER ... there is a new contender in the NFI re AVIATIOn awards categories!

What operator in their right mind will LEAVE PAX behind... deliver freight then return to pick up the pax..AND EXPECT TO MAKE MONEY?

I also heard that they had "maintenance" to be done on the Baron, so they ferrierd from BDV to Mt Isa, and replaced the BARON with a C182RG!!!

bet the punters loved that!

Perhaps the PA31 Wasn't the best a/c for the run. Perhaps the AC50 was a bit uncomfortable. But SURELY folks... the Baron has GOT to be one of THE worst a/c for a run which REQUIRES a lot of freight to be taken!

What happens next week ? maybe we will get a FORMATION of C172's? two pax in each and 30kg of freight ?

TK and CK may have been "not entirely honest with their employees", but at least they learnt SOMETHING in the 20 or so years that they were operating the run!

[olderbutyzer]

My spies tell me that there will be a Chieftain on the run next week. Should take care of the backlog of freight that was left behind last week!

[Pinky the pilot]

Olderbutyzer; Provided of course, that the amount of mail/freight that accrues during the next week is not too much!
As I have mentioned previously, I can remember several occasions when after loading all the mail/ freight at LEC and having only the required fuel to the next refuelling stop we were right on MTOW of 3342kg leaving YLEC.

You only live twice. Once when
you're born. Once when
you've looked death in the face.

[Pinky the pilot]

A long time twixt drinks methinks! Heard a whisper lately that the new broom is not necessarily sweeping as efficiently as expected. :(
Anyone in the know out there have any definite info??

You only live twice. Once when
you're born. Once when
you've looked death in the face.

[11percent]

I understand that the company involved is having difficulty getting any good pilots!

[teletubby]

I heard that in a week or so one of the greatest aces God ever put on this great earth is leaving or AA.

[11percent]

"or AA"?? Care to expand on that?

[Desert Flower]

Teletubby, no-one else knows what you're talking about, & quite frankly I don't think you do either!

DF.

[Lefthanded_Rock_Thrower]

Teletubby must be talking about a pilot at WWA, who is alot more "experienced" ( polite way of saying old ) than the rest, that is leaving WWA and going to fly VH-LSB (B58).

IMHO and ernestly, he is one of the nicest blokes i've met in GA.

[Pinky the pilot]

11percent; Most interesting! I know of a pilot, reasonably experienced on the mail run back in ASA's day who would be available first thing yesterday! I believe that he has already contacted WWA.

Teletubby; What's up with you to get that bitter and twisted?? :( The differing opinion between you and the Left Handed one is rather startling.:confused:

You only live twice. Once when
you're born. Once when
you've looked death in the face.

[Desert Flower]

Most interesting! I know of a pilot, reasonably experienced on the mail run back in ASA's day who would be available first thing yesterday! I believe that he has already contacted WWA.

Yes Pinky, I believe he has contacted WWA. And if they would only listen to the people who are in the know they would make a suitable aircraft available to him & give him the job. Then I know for sure it would get done properly, unlike some of the half a***d efforts there have been recently!

DF.

[Pinky the pilot]

So what's the latest on this subject? Noted recently that WWA were after a Chief Pilot, plus a couple of line Pilots as well.

You only live twice. Once when
you're born. Once when
you've looked death in the face.

[porn star]

So did you apply for a job there ? Pinky?

You are obviously keen. surely someone with youre vast knowledge and experience would be an assett there.

[VH5BYJ]

Believe their CP is going back to BAE to become CFI. Last I heard on the mail run was that there had been two broken Chieftains within a couple of weeks of each other & the run was being done in a C310.

[Pinky the pilot]

porn star; I would not be Chief Pilot material by any stretch of the imagination!!
with your vast knowledge and experience
Only when it comes to picking :mad: oranges!!:yuk: :yuk:
VH5BYJ; Thanks for that.

You only live twice. Once when
you're born. Once when
you've looked death in the face.

[WoodenSpoon]

Does anyone have the goss / details on who the new CP of WWA is likely to be and when they are likely to start? :confused:

[nick murry]

New CP of WWA

Yeah ill give you a clue,,

He lives for the bundy rum and head butts walls when he does not get his way..

;)

[WoodenSpoon]

Nick, now you have me intrigued. Sounds like some stories in there. Care to share? :}

[nasa]

nick ....Didn't know that Mario Fenech or Gordon Tallis had CP approval :eek: :eek: :eek:

[Pinky the pilot]

He lives for the Bundy rum...
Sounds like half the population of the front bar at the Australian Hotel at Boulia on a Saturday night!!! At least that would be my observation!!

You only live twice. Once when
you're born. Once when
you've looked death in the face.

[maxgrad]

likes a drink
let me see.
AS Pinky said that singles out most of Aust

[GoGirl]

Sounds like half the population of the front bar at the Australian Hotel at Boulia on a Saturday night!!! At least that would be my observation!!


just your observation eh?



:E



GG ;)

[Pinky the pilot]

GoGirl; On the many glorious Saturday Nights I spent at the Australian Hotel at Boulia I observed at close hand just how many of the locals poured the Bundy down. Like nearly every single 'Ringer' who came in.:ok:
However it would have been quite easy to guess who I was. I was only person in the front bar to have a bottle of good Aussie Red Wine in front of me!!:ok: :ok: And most times some of our passengers on the 'old run' would help me drink it too.
For the record; I can't even stand the smell of Bundy!!:yuk: :yuk: :yuk:
Now, a glass of anything with the prefix of 'Glen' is a different matter......:ok: :ok: :ok: :ok:


awaiting incoming...

You only live twice. Once when
you're born. Once when
you've looked death in the face.

[VH5BYJ]

Anyone know the latest goss on this? Seems to have gone fairly quiet....

[OpsNormal]

Yeah, it is quiet. You will possibly find that those involved don't like making a big noise out of it, preferring instead to just get on with the job.

And what is so wrong with enjoying a Bundy or two in an appropriate environment? Sounds OK to me, but then what would I know? :}

A '96 Church Block Cab Sauv or a Penf 407 will always quaff down a treat at an appropriate time also. Guilty as charged, yeronna! :E

GG's onto us again..... :D

Pinky, a drink named after an elusive Stag? Oh dear, wash that nasty imported stuff out of your mouth....! ;)

OpsN.;)

[Pinky the pilot]

OpsNprmal; I sincerely hope that 'those involved' are really just getting on with it! Unfortunately there appears to be a rumour circulating that the current operators of the Mail run seem to wish to divest themselves of the contract, having offered it to another operator!!:confused:
I'm hoping that it is only just that; A rumour!
Oh, and I will wash that nasty imported stuff out.......with more of the same!

You only live twice. Once when
you're born. Once when
you've looked death in the face.

[apache]

ahhhh BOULIA...! thems the days!

I always liked the fact that Bundy mixed with XXXX was a popular drink! not watering it down with Coke, or Ice, or air!

Shame that the run that was, is no longer. Some of my fondest flying memories on that run. As well as the breakdowns, and getting "home" on a Tuesday instead of a Sunday, due Birdstrike, hydraulic failure, Mag failure etc etc.

I always found that one had to be careful as to HOW much info the pax either knew or wanted. It was ALWAYS good to find out if they were American or Canadian, as one can tell a few more porkies to one group over t'other!

There was nothing too hard about that run, nor was there any reason it couldn't either MAKE money, or be cost neutral!


Hottest I ever saw it was 56C, so Grange was NOT the drink of choice!!!! however, when Pinky bought along a few "gems", it would have been rude NOT to partake! even ruder to let him finish the bottle(s) solo!

Just remember tho' Pinky .... you DON'T give strawberries to pigs!

[OpsNormal]

And yes apache, I still remember sitting in the General RW Bourke (I don't believe it has been called that in many years now) at Parramatta one night with you and a few other prooners and the stories (especially of a certain person at Boulia) flowing as did the Ales.

I can't remeber if it was a "hawiian shirt" night or not, but do remember it was either very late, or not so early (dependant of your definition) when we 'walked' out of there.

That of course being many many moons ago now. If you remember I brought my then girlfriend, she's now my wife.:E

OpsN.;)

[apache]

OPSNORMAL,

I do remember that night, and "the bourke" - was a while ago now! although I thought that that was prior to me doing that run ? (passage of time, and ale, has clouded my memory)

Congratulations on the nuptials.... seems to be trendy nowadays on proon.

dunno if it WAS Hawaiian shirt night or not, however nothing wrong with an Hibiscus theme!

Must do it again!

SOON!

[Mango]

Did anybody ever notice how pinky the pilot was always chasing the fine lady behind the bar in the dinning room at Boulia?

I gotta say that it was always good having Pinky onboard. :p

[Pinky the pilot]

.....was always chasing the fine Lady behind the bar in the dining room.....
Lies I tell you; all lies I say!! We were just good friends and she once complimented me on my aftershave.....:E
And thanks for the compliment Mango. It was always good to fly with you too.:ok: Good luck!
Apache; Your assistance in helping finish the bottle(s) was always appreciated!:ok: :ok:

You only live twice. Once when
you're born. Once when
you've looked death in the face.

[Desert Duck]

As they say - 'when in Rome'

Cooper Creek cordial - a wonderful drop.

[Pinky the pilot]

Does anyone have any knowledge of how the current operator is faring as of late? I assumed that they had got the run sussed and were carrying on ok but recently I heard some talk that things were not as they could be.
As the info I recieved was admittedly about third hand I would prefer to hear/read it from someone who knows!
Awaiting...

You only live twice. Once when
you're born. Once when
you've looked death in the face.

[apache]

Loved them "GARLIC BREADS" too!

[VH5BYJ]

I heard that there have been a number of times when they have either had to do two trips to Innamincka or get another aircraft to help with the load, due to the fact that they will persist in using a Baron instead of something bigger.

[Dubya]

The Garlic XXXX at Boulia.

I walked into the 'Australia Hotel' at Boulia, approached the young maiden behind the counter, and coyly asked....'um, do you know anything about the garlic xxxx?"
"Ah, f^ck me, H*****, told you to ask, didn't he?"

And thereby, a legend was created, just like those blessed Min-Min lights....

.. but do you remember who got you into that sh?tty company...?

[apache]

Yes... you still owe me for that!

[Pinky the pilot]

VH5BYJ;Thanks for that.So they're still using a Baron eh? Two trips to Innamincka would tend to knock the profit margin around somewhat!! And getting another aircraft to help with the load?? Care to say more about this?
Still think that a Shrike would be the best for the job.:ok: Or if unavailable at least a properly looked after Chieftain.:hmm:

You only live twice. Once when
you're born. Once when
you've looked death in the face.

[Wee Mary McGregor]

Gordon told me that last week there was so much stuff they had to do TWO trips with the Baron, and get the 172 as well.

[apache]

Call me naiive, but... WTF is Gordon ?

[disco_air]

Yes who the :mad: is Gordon?

ooh people are talking about me. :yuk:

Disco

[apache]

OK... Hi Gordon.

so..... WTF is going on with the mailrun ? it used to be a (fairly) seemless operation.

[OpsNormal]

Geeze, there's some really good stories floating around here...

[GW_04]

Gordon, 172??? Gee wiz... this one has taken a spin off to the side!
Facts or at least close speculation please :ugh:

[disco_air]

No, I am NOT "Gordon" :mad:

I want to know who the shmuck is!

Heard someone on CTAF refer to Gordon the other day in the PAG area. Maybe thats him!! :mad:


...Disco

[OpsNormal]

No, I am NOT "Gordon" :mad:
I want to know who the shmuck is!
Heard someone on CTAF refer to Gordon the other day in the PAG area. Maybe thats him!! :mad:
...Disco

Didn't get any "knocking" noises on the way down today disco?;)

[disco_air]

Hahaha!

Yes, but I chose not to pay any attention to them :} :ok:

[apache]

I hear of this bloke "ROGER" in most circuits...I really want to meet HIM!

[disco_air]

Maybe "Gordon" is the new guy doing "Roger's" job? :}

Now this thread is really going somewhere.

..Disco

[tlf]

Looked in old log and seems i just put AD PAG- LC-all stations BDV.
Then next day BDV all stations- Boulia Bedourrie BDV.
Next day BDV - LC - AD.
Was 16. 5 hours total in old PA32 VH -PDD
Bloody fun tho.:ok:

How does
Pt Augusta, Leigh Crk, Moolawatana, Merty Merty, Innaminka, Durham Downs, Arrabury, Birdsville, Boulia.

Boulia, Sandringham, Bedourie, Glengyle, Durrie, Roseberth, Birdsville, Pandie Pandie, Alton Downs, Clifton Hills, Cowarie, Mungerannie, Mulka, Etadunna, Dulkaninna, Leigh Crk, Pt Augusta.

Sound? That's how it was when I was flying it in Alpha Charlie Zulu.

[tinpis]

Tlf sounds familiar I did it 31 years ago and overnighted in the Birdville boozer rather than Boulia.
There was a good selection of characters around them days !

Kangaroos wandering about the accomodation block. :hmm:
Once recall doing the top half in pissing rain ! !
Them days the track was the bloody track no touristsy 4WDs.

I once had a slow leak in a mainwheel tyre topped it up as I went around the stations and managed to get it all the way back to Parafield.

[tlf]

Tlf sounds familiar I did it 31 years ago and overnighted in the Birdville boozer rather than Boulia.
There was a good selection of characters around them days !

Kangaroos wandering about the accomodation block. :hmm:
Once recall doing the top half in pissing rain ! !
Them days the track was the bloody track no touristsy 4WDs.

I once had a slow leak in a mainwheel tyre topped it up as I went around the stations and managed to get it all the way back to Parafield.


I imagine that if you could gather all of us who flew that run over the years together there would be enough material for a reasonable book.

Personally I had a pretty event free run with VH-ACZ except for a gear indicator problem once which left me without a green on the right main for the remainder of the trip from Birdsville to The Gutter.

Also had the "pleasure" of doing the trip in the 402A VH-AWS and Seneca VH-MEP. Guess what, it IS possible to land a Seneca nicely, five mail runs in one gives you enough practice to learn how to do it.

TF

[tinpis]

Was ACZ a PAGAS ship?

[Pinky the pilot]

ACZ was a Shrike Commander purchased by the Kinghams specifically for the mail run. Can't remember exactly when but it was sometime in the mid 1980s.
Prior to this they had been using a Partenavia (can't remember the reg) which, if memory serves correctly was the aircraft that PAGAS had been using and when the Kinghams took over the run they bought the aircraft as well.

You only live twice. Once when
you're born. Once when
you've looked death in the face.

[apache]

ACZ... what a lovely airplane. I had a great time flying that. Hardly ever let me down, and was a joy to fly.
Probably the best plane for the job.... and the BEST HF radio I have ever used! Shame that they never thought ahead and had spare engines for it when they were due!

[Pinky the pilot]

and had spare engines for it when they were due
And when they fitted a new engine one time it proved to be somewhat faulty, as JF found out between Sandringham and Bedourie one fine Sunday morning!!:uhoh: :eek:

[tlf]

And when they fitted a new engine one time it proved to be somewhat faulty, as JF found out between Sandringham and Bedourie one fine Sunday morning!!:uhoh: :eek:


Hmmm I wonder if it was another cheap POS from a certain supplier of engines at Parafield like the one I had to contend with in NPD for a while. Four cracked cylinders and a cracked crankcase in the first 200 hours while the factory reman on the other side purred like a kitten. Ya get what ya pay for.

TF

[Mango]

Well, I have some photos of the mail run...and some of 'pinky the pilot' :} nothing that gives his identity away :ok:. But I am not sure how to go about getting the images on pprune. Any ideas

mango

[Desert Flower]

Probably the best plane for the job.... and the BEST HF radio I have ever used!


Yes, it was definitely the best plane for the job. But as far as HF radios go, I always found the one in AZJ to be the best.

DF.

[PLovett]

Chaps & Chapesses,

I seem to recall that there was an excellent article on the "run" in, I think, Australian Geographic magazine some years ago.

Had some excellent photos of ACZ and showing the somewhat stoney state of some of the station strips as well as Birdsville and Boulia.

I kept a copy of that magazine for years thinking what a great job it would be. :ok:

[tinpis]

Yer all wussers... tin hadda do it in a Cherokee 6

[Desert Flower]

Yer all wussers... tin hadda do it in a Cherokee 6


Awww, poor ol' Tin! Just out of curiosity, did you carry passengers too? And were there ever times where there was more than you could fit in on one trip?
For those of you that are interested, check out this link: http://tinyurl.com/erhma
And for those of you that have today's Adelaide Advertiser (13-5-06) the story is on page 7.

DF.

[tinpis]

Heehee didnt know Rupert but I did know a nice nursey in Maree

Spent all night shaggin on a wheeled bed all over the clinic floor. http://www.augk18.dsl.pipex.com/Smileys/sexmiss.gif

Just in case Rupert gets his knickers in a knot it were less than 40 years ago ad she were 100% Aussie

[Desert Flower]

Spent all night shaggin on a wheeled bed all over the clinic floor.

Heheh, mucky little devil!;)

DF.

[tlf]

So what exactly is the status of "the run" these days.
When I was doing it the routing was
Port Augusta, Leigh Creek, Moolawootana, Merty Merty, Innaminka, Durham Downs, Arrabury, Birdsville, Boulia (with an optional stop at Bedourie on the way if required) Overnight then Sandringham, Bedourie,
Glengyle, Durrie, Roseberth, Birdsville, Pandie Pandie, Alton Downs, Clifton Hills, Cowarie, Mungerannie, Mulka, Etadunna, Dulkaninna, Leigh Creek, Port Augusta. I understand that someone from Mt Isa is at least covering the QLD portion these days, what about the rest? I guess there's been a few faces come and gone since I was up there.

TF

[tinpis]

Until this thread started I had never thought about the mail run or the Eyre basin all those years ago.
Thanks Desert Duck.
Ive got slides somewhere of that time and if I find them I will post em up.

[No Woomera I dont mean slides of me and the nursey in Maree] :=

[tlf]

[No Woomera I dont mean slides of me and the nursey in Maree] :=

I think those are already on the net somewhere. :E

[disco_air]

So what exactly is the status of "the run" these days

PAG - LEC - MYT (recently re-included) - INN - DRH - COD - BDV - RSB (sometimes) - DRI - GLE - BDV (overnight) - PDI - CFH - CWI - MUG - EDA - DLK - LEC - PAG

is the stock standard run these days.

Had a journo travel the other week. Will send a link to the story to interested parties.

...Disco

[Desert Flower]

I guess there's been a few faces come and gone since I was up there.

Whooo - I've lost count TLF! Check your PM's.

DF.

[Desert Flower]

Had a journo travel the other week. Will send a link to the story to interested parties.

Those journos are a :mad: pain, aren't they? One of these days someone's gonna tell them where to poke their cameras! :eek:

DF.

[tinpis]

Funnily enough though theres been many many pilots since the early days theres only been one Mayor of PortAgutter :D

[tlf]

Funnily enough though theres been many many pilots since the early days theres only been one Mayor of PortAgutter :D

Is she still there?

And did I hear somewhere that a certain fuel agent at Leigh Ck has also gone on to be mayor?

TF

[Pinky the pilot]

Tinny;spent all night shaggin......
You dirty old man.........:D :}
You would'nt have been the first to have found 'love' on the mail run!!:ok:
and you certainly were'nt the last
Mango; Sorry, can't help you there, but I'm intrigued as to what you have there....I mean, you did'nt take a piccy that night in the front bar in the Boulia pub when I was with..er... you know....ummm.....oh dear.:uhoh: :eek: :} :O

[tinpis]

:hmm:...I feel a TV series in this somewhere

"The Mail pilot meats McLeods Daughters"

[OpsNormal]

....meats....

A Freudian slip tin? ;) :D := :D

[apache]

Personally, I prefer SILK slips :ouch:

[porn star]

is the mail run still going?and who runs it now? can I boook an as a pasengar? what aircraft is used?

[disco_air]

is the mail run still going?and who runs it now? can I boook an as a pasengar? what aircraft is used?

Yes. West Wing (YBMA). Yes. Baron.

...Disco

[Deejay 1]

Ah the mail run.

Camera crew with Beta cams that weighed a ton, Tripods, production gear, a producer, cameraman, sound recordist and reporter. Those were the days, esp when they couldnt quite understand that the MR was limited to 10kgs per pax.
Then the days if they could gaffa tape a camera to the wing for landings/takeoffs.
And the outbursts as to the extra costs to get some go round shots not fully understanding the time/fuel involved.
Ah I loved dealing with the media, and even more so with the tourism authorities who though we should give it away.
And the buggers never ever said thankyou or sent the footage as promised.

And then there were the station owners who would spew if the plane over flew, as they had'nt faxed the strip conditions to PUG on the Friday, which was part of the deal and their responsibility if they wanted the mail/goods etc.

I could go on and on.

So Disco, the current run I don't think would be as good as the old ASA effort, but given the recent comments re equipment you might get to try several of West Wing's fleet.

TTFN