A380 launch etc (Merged)

[Gerard123]

Does anyone know if any of the following TV channels will be covering the A380 rollout?

BBC world
CNN
Sky news
TV5
Bloomberg
CNBC

??????

[TenAndie]

I would imagine BBC News 24 will be showing it live. If not, it will be on ALL the channels for a segment of the news.

[Airline Tycoon]

Live on Airbus' website

http://www.airbus.com/events/a380_reveal/event/index.asp

[eahlund]

just say that CNN international will show it live... you know the times im assuming...

Cheers

[beerdrinker]

Live on Sky News. Starting 1000z.

[davieboy001]

its also on the BBC NEWS 24 Channel 507 on Sky Digital

Lets just hope the weather stays good enough not to know the digital transmission out....

[G-BBAE]

Does anyone know if the take off will be repeated later on tv because i am unable to see it as im at school.
What times it due anyway.

[Raggyman]

Hoping to go see the Maiden Flight of the A380 in France.
I know that the flight is spose to take place sometime in March, but don't know what date.

Bet that they are itching to get it off the ground. Wonder if the test pilot is sleeping in the cabin, and saying "Come on you guys, are you ready yet!, how long does it take to change a spark plug!".

Thanks in Advance.

[davieboy001]

i would imagine it to be on the standard news in the UK.

Its already been on the breakfast news, they had a (reasonable) long feature on it with a reporter who seamed to be interested in the aviation industry.

David

[G-BBAE]

Forgot to mention but is the A380 actually going into the air today?

[panda-k-bear]

Erm, no.

It is only the ceremony where the aircraft is rolled out in front of all the bigwigs (Bliar, Chirac et al) and, I suppose, all of the airline hob-nobs (the wooly pully set off this morning in one of his A346s).

It'll fly later in the year, before the end of March according to Airbus.

[Andu]

The fact that a date hasn't been specified months ago would seem to me to indicate that all is not well with the "Ostrich".

Edited after RTFQ.

[davieboy001]

there is another post stating that it is in march so i am not sure.


was wondering the same myself

David

anyone see anything on the airbus site yet?

got bbc news 24 on but the weather is messing it up...oh the wonders of digital tv....grrr


David

sky digital channel 528 - euro news, does not seam weather effected


David

[Electric Sky]

Today 18th Jan is the rollout ceremony only. Not sure of the exact date but it's maiden flight is planned for the Spring with deliveries commencing 2006.

ES ;)

[davieboy001]

how much of the aircraft is completed?

is the interior all done?

David

[Raggyman]

Yeah, would have been good to have a look at the roll out this morning.

Supprised that they haven't made it public yet the date for the maiden flight. Maybe they are waiting for the paint and superglue to dry, or maybe it is just a static model made out of balsa wood, and the real one is at Weight Watches trying to loose weight. Can just imagine at the first interview, "You want to loose how much???!!!".

Anyhow, would really like to be there when it takes off.

Cheers
Jace

[WeekendWorrier]

Is anyone getting the live stream? I've tried about four times with two different browsers and got nothing... :{

[rotornut]

The maiden flight is in the middle of March. I read that in an article I saw last week which I'm trying to find & will post as soon as I find it.

[bushboy]

has anybody got the above link to work?
HELP!!!! :{
/bb

[davieboy001]

dont look like the stream is working

:(

[BEagle]

Euronews has the best pictures right now:

501 Sky News - covered in DOGs
507 BBC News 24 - couldn't be arsed to provide full coverage
510 CNBC - Nothing
513 CNN - Usual poor definition picture, but good coverage
525 ITV News - A joke
528 Euronews - excellent. Shame it isn't WS though....
531 Fox News - Not invented here. Not interested.

[GrahamK]

It's on Sky News. Has to be one of the most stupid and boring things I've ever watched ;)

Could never understand French anyway ;)

[davieboy001]

yea the light show was a bit....

they running over all the aircraft models jsut now, quite interesting

David

[moku]

Airbus web site is not working for me either. Tried both Internet Explorer and Netscape.

[ALLDAYDELI]

Bet its ready for the Paris air show later this year.....

[davieboy001]

go to

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/4183201.stm

open the 'veiw news player'

chose the airbus live index

David

its on live through bbcnews site

Davdi

[noiseabatement]

Hi Gang:

The build up on News 24 is taking longer than what the 1st revenue flight will be!!!!

[international hog driver]

Live now on 2DF in Germany:E

[davieboy001]

lets see the damn plan already

[Andu]

BBC gave up ages ago on what must be the most boring stage show I've seen in ages. In fact, I gave up when CNN (who have plodded on with the blue Colonel Sanders lookalike muppet intoning on ... and on... about every aircraft in the Aerboos range) announced that we'd have to sit through speeches from Tony Blair and the three European partners' leaders before we get a peek at the KonkHorde.

Anyone like to guess at what posessed Airbus to use a skinny Colonel Sanders as their front man?

[Georgeablelovehowindia]

Yes, the fol de rols are going on and on. For once I feel sorry for Blair, Chirac, etc. having to sit through all this guff. PULL THE DAMN THING OUT and give us a look!

[davieboy001]

at last

TBH

its very nice

[Chuffer Chadley]

OK- they've shown us it.

Now could they turn the lights on?

[Barry Cuda]

What the fuk was that all about, then? Couldn't somebody put 50p in the meter so that they could turn the lights on properly?

[Bora Bora]

I am not a great fan of all this theatrical and bombastic self-importance. Was it me, or was the applause decidedly muted when the curtains finally dropped and the plane was revealed? Can't say I blame the crowd - they were probably asleep.

And can we now see the plane properly please, rather than some dark shape in the back. Enough already!

[robontweb]

What a waste of space , time , and money that was!!!!!!!!!!!!
I hope that the finished article flys better.!!
:( :( :( :yuk: :uhoh:

[TwinAisle]

Welcome to the Victor Meldrew thread...

Will you lot get a life please, and celebrate something really rather special here??

Shows like this have been a feature of this sort of launch forever. They fill in time whilst the assorted bigwigs are escorted to their seats, when they can be torn away from the press.

As for the coverage - for those of us who do speak foreign languages, please can they use subtitles, rather than the amateurish translation that was used today?? So we can get a real translation ourselves of what was actually said.... the guy translating the German on Euronews was hopeless....

As for Sky - never heard such negativity - you guys would have enjoyed it. One person called the A380 the Titanic. Nice, guys. Do you want to run us down all the time, or are you just happy to hear your own voice even when it is talking defeatist drivel?

The applause was NOT muted - that is one huge mother of a building. You would have a job making any noise in there sound amazing.

Now guys - say something nice about this topic, and positive, or go and run along and see how your Boeing shares are doing.

Shame on you all.

[OneWorld22]

It'll be some freighter i can tell you!

How many pallets do people reckon it could take??

[GrahamK]

Looks pretty good now that I've seen it completed. Now, where is the bowling alley found? :E

[VC10 Rib22]

Somebody please tell me they are going to put the lights on in a great 'finale'........otherwise, it's just a big lilac silouette. Typical that the pompous bigwigs ensure that they are the centre of attraction and not the aircraft.

[Chuffer Chadley]

TwinAisle

We're all itching to say something positive- but we want to talk about the aircraft! We'll take or leave the interpretative dancing, but we haven't seen the plane properly!

CC

[VC10 Rib22]

Aaaaaagggghhhhh ! Ohhhhhhhhhhh! She's lovely!

[brockenspectre]

Am way ticked to find that my company IT setup won't support any of the video ... and even SKY which had potential declared that I am not in the UK/RoI so couldn't watch there! grrrrrrrrrrrr just 'cos I work for a German company (in London!)!!! Oh well - guess I will see it on the news tonight. boohoo

[hobie]

Well I watched Sky News for 1 1/2 hrs and then gave up .... while I'm prepared to accept the style of presentation in this modern age, I would have thought they could at least have shown us the Aircraft at some stage :( ...... even just a quick glimpse of the whole xxxxxxxxx thing with the lights on would have been ok ....


A $$$$$ up in my view ..... which I think is a shame because I'm a great supporter of the 380 :{

[jettesen]

17th march. date been set since october 2004

P.s no interior on test aircraft as all the testing equip is in there!

[PPRuNeUser0162]

Well I think everybody is going over the top about this. Why are we celebrating a 555 seat (in general usage) airliner? It's not that great an increase over the 747, particularly if you look at the Japanese domestic models. And we all know that the interior mock-ups are just that, mock-ups that will never happen (unless El Presidentie Bliar gets one for Blair Force One)

At least they've put money in the meter now though and the new colours do look nice. Bit too Euro White though :E

[PPRuNe Pop]

Well that was the worst roll-out I have ever NOT seen! I stayed with it for an hour and twenty-five minutes while yet more speeches were made at the top of the steps and still no lights. It was horrendously boring and even RB looked bored.

Its big that's all you say about it up to now.

No imagination!

[aaaaa]

Wonderful, we should all be proud - mind you it took our American cousins to get the main lighting up of the aircraft, BBC and Sky missed it!! Oh well, they didn't seem to enthuse about it anyway :(

Can't wait to see it take to the air, (how do I get out of work). I am showing my age now but remember when Concorde flew for the first time, just one of those memories I shall never forget.

aa

[eal401]

Twin Aisle, there are plenty who would be happiest if the first flight ends in a pile of smoking wreckage, sadly.

[Man-on-the-fence]

Cracking quote from GMTV this moring (UK Breakfast News for the terminally stupid - which was why I was watching)

"Its so big Airbus arent sure it will actually fly!"

[greatorex]

"Its so big Airbus arent sure it will actually fly!" Truer words..............

Cheers,

G

[GrahamK]

A guy on Sky News was saying that the test pilots will require a parachute and crash helmut! :\

[TwinAisle]

eal401 - what a terrible comment - made more terrible by the fact that you may well be right. What sort of nation are we becoming when we run down things like this? It is an incredible machine. And as for GMTV's fatuous comment re "will it fly" - well that just proves once again the sheer pea-brained incompetence and slackness of what now passes for journalism in the UK.

Listen journo-morons. IT WILL FLY. No doubt at all. The only question really is whether it will hit the performance targets, and I would bet it won't be far off, given the experience in Airbus at these things......

TA

[panda-k-bear]

Britboy,

Ya said it yerself son. In general usage. Let's compare like with like, shall we? 140 odd more passengers "in general usage". If you want to look at Japanese dom usage, then you'd be at, ooh, 850 or so so 250 more pax. Now tell us that ain't a big step!

[davieboy001]

twinaisle

exactly my point
am 19 and the state of UK journalism is *forgive me mods* cr@p!!!

GMTV, for a start is just , IMO, morning junk with nothing actually interlecual happening, and that comment does not surprise me at all from them.

I was watching the EuroNews and it seamed pretty good comentary, i could not translate all the french but managed some of it.
BBC News (and in fact most of the news channels) had frozen out because it was raining...sky saying its my problem...grrr


The A380 looks a marvellous plane and i am sure it will fly, i cant wait to fly on it, never know, maybe even manage first class some day as well.

[PPRuNeUser0162]

panda-k-bear,

Fine, it's bigger, but I still don't see what the technological marvel is.

It's fly-by-wire. Well that's been around for a while. It's got composites. Well that's not exactly new either. It's very big. Wow, that's such a marvel that...

Yes, Europe has co-operated on it, but then again, we've been doing that with all the other Airbii for years.

I'm not being discouraging, I have no A or B preference, but I don't get what the big hoo-ha is. So it's big, la-de-dah... The AN-225 is bigger :}

(And the Japanese domestic version, who exactly has ordered that again???)

[Dr Illitout]

When are they going to stop talking about bars, gyms and shops on board though?.
I see in "Flight" they are doing an evacuation test with 800+ pax. I bet the bean counters will be watching that one!.

Rgds Dr.I

[LightTwin Driver]

What a waste of time !!
That idiot Branson grinning all over the place telling us that his aircraft will have casinos and bars and blah blah.Yeah right !!
If he actually takes delivery of the GWE,he'll fill it with as many seats as he can squeeze in !

A while back he was offering his orders for sale,having realised that LAX will be unable to take the machine for some time.

[Taildragger]

GrahamK I think it's located beside the Barbie Pit, next to the swimming pool and the high diving board.!!

I heard Terry Woebegone (That well known Aviation Sage) tell the known world this morning on the wireless, that nobody, as yet, had successfully landed the sim without taking out the odd pod. Is this a good rumour.??
Couldn't possibly be true......could it.??

[Andu]

... but Airbus have been granted some "dispensations" on the 90 sec / 50% of exits requirement "to ensure the safety of the volunteers".

I stand by for the howls of protest from the Europhiles that anyone might dare to suggest that these dispensations might be somewhat slanted towards ensuring the KonkHorde passes the test with "flying" colours.


Back to the subject of the thread: - whilst casting no aspersions at the aeroplane, that had to be the godawful launch I have ever (in part) witnessed. "In part" because I wandered off in utter boredom.

Now, a quick question: how much more interesting would such a presentation have been if it had been done by the cousins across the pond?

[eal401]

Its so big Airbus arent sure it will actually fly
Just when you thought TV media reports couldn't get any more stupid!

[Alpha Leader]

Awful ceremony - all smoke and mirrors, no substance.

What a noise about nothing - just like launching a new ship onto a cricket pitch, because we don't know whether it will actually float...... of course, we've just had to reschedule the maiden flight, haven't we?

The talk about on-board bars, beauty parlors, etc. reminds me of similar claims made about the 747 at the time - somewhere between overly optimistic and hysterical.

[Big Hilly]

Regarding the casinos; I can just see the chaos as them chips go flying when the thing hits a patch of CAT. . . .

[Angry punter, picking chips up off floor] "I tell you, I had £10,000 on red!!!!" ;)

BH

[scroggs]

originally posted by LightTwinDriver:

That idiot Branson grinning all over the place telling us that his aircraft will have casinos and bars and blah blah.Yeah right !! If he actually takes delivery of the GWE,he'll fill it with as many seats as he can squeeze in ! A while back he was offering his orders for sale,having realised that LAX will be unable to take the machine for some time.

'That idiot Branson' happens to run an extremely successful airline, which has more aeroplanes on order than any UK airline outside the locos.

The first of 6 firm A380s will be delivered to Virgin Atlantic at the end of 2007. There are 6 options beyond that, and the airline is considering more. Those orders were and are not for sale. The initial delivery was delayed, partly because some of the destinations will not be ready for the aeroplane in time, and partly because Virgin wanted to develop other destinations with the A340-600 fleet (25 firm orders plus 13 options; 7 delivered so far) and there weren't enough people to do both.

The Virgin seat fit is 524 seats - fixed some considerable time ago - and will not include any of the sillier fripperies (gym, fountains) being talked about at the launch by the press. However, all Virgin Atlantic aircraft already have a bar - and it's very nice, thanks!

http://www.virgin-atlantic.com/tridion/images/ucsbar206x205_tcm4-40368.jpg

Oh - and we also already offer a 'beauty salon' on most flights, and double beds on some! :ok:

[upperecam]

May I lay claim to the origin of the nickname BIGBUS should it take on of course.

:) :( :O :eek: :confused: :ok:

[PPRuNe Pop]

Oh good Scroggs! I hope to be sitting comfortably on one of those seats next Thursday week on my way to MCO - before I eat of course!

Then again......................................................a fter I eat! :E :ok:

[panda-k-bear]

Britboy,

With size comes an economy of scale. The name of the game these days is fuel burn - especially with oil prices as they are. If you can benefit from an economy of scale and a lower fuel burn, you reduce the trip cost. If you reduce the trip cost you can reduce the ticket price. It's what the 747 offered over the 707 and DC8 at the time and that's what is set to happen again, with a cost per seat 20% lower than the 747.

Just because you can't see the revolution, doesn't mean that there isn't one. The wing aerodynamics and the efficiency of the engines ARE revolutionary and hopefully we should all benefit.

No, no Japanese carriers have ordered it as yet. But that's a whole different story....

And as for the bars, well scroggs beat me to it (and Virgin aren't the only ones).

[Sky Wave]

A guy on Sky News was saying that the test pilots will require a parachute and crash helmut

Flight International reported that "an escape system with a jettisonable cargo door will allow flight test crew to parachute to safety." This is for the early stall tests.

Seems sensible to me, You don't know it's handling charachteristics although I expect the simulator flight model that they've developed is very close.

I believe Concorde test pilots had parachutes as well.

I trust that they'll try the stalling tests over the sea!!!

[GrahamK]

Sky Wave, cheers for the explanation :ok:
Yes indeed, those tests will surely be carried out over water?

[ElectroVlasic]

Now, a quick question: how much more interesting would such a presentation have been if it had been done by the cousins across the pond?None of us know, it hasn't happened in our lifetimes! :O But semi-seriously, it seems that no one actually 'rolls' their planes at roll-out ceremonies any more, and that's a darn shame, IMHO.

It does seem this ceremony was mostly for the politicians to get some face time. And in reading the various (english-language) writeups on BBC, CNN, etc. it seems the Germans and the Spanish are the silent partners - we get quotes from Chiraq and Blair, but none from Schroeder nor Zapatero. I guess there's a pecking order in the EU!

And needless to say, not a word about the American content of the aircraft: avionics, landing gear, composite structures, etc. That only gets mentioned when we go to the WTO or when we try to sell Airbus tankers in the nasty old USA.

It has been rightfully pointed out how arrogant and boastful most Americans are about their successes, but it seems that trait is not solely an American one.

Just pointing this out to hasten this thread's migration to Jet Blast and/or Airports, Routes and Anoraks...
It's what the 747 offered over the 707 and DC8 at the time and that's what is set to happen again Be careful of selective memory. You may recall that inability to consistently fill the extra seats on the 747 made them a major financial liability for those who speculated they could fill them. Many carriers ended up dumping them when they found they could not, which made it very difficult to sell new ones. In particular, one can't help but feel that Emirate's orders for 41 A380s is a pretty darn speculative. Granted, they have enough money so if they are a financial failure they can turn them into earth-bound hotels, so we will finally get the casinos, showers, bars and bowling alleys!

[panda-k-bear]

Already migrated - didn't take long. Even though it's on every news channel across Europe, apparently it isn't news. Oh well.

EV,

Initially true, but the ball soon got rolling. And these days we have 74s following each other out of SIN and HKG London bound, so there's a market right for the picking! Not sure that happened in 707 or DC8 (or, as has been pointed out to me, Convair) days.

[hobie]

.... representing the largest investment in commercial Aviation in the past hundred years?, surely the 380 launch could command a better forum than "Spotters Corner" :{

[DUBXH]

Can I draw everyones attention to this (http://www.airbus.com/events/a380_reveal/event/img/encart_win.gif) link ?

[eal401]

surely the 380 launch could command a better forum than "Spotters Corner"
Perhaps a reflection on PPRuNe's opinion of such important events?

Will the 7e7 rollout (if/when it happens) get treated the same I wonder?

:yuk: :yuk: :yuk: :yuk:

[supercarb]

Just when you thought TV media reports couldn't get any more stupid!

I can beat that.

Some stupid woman reporter on BBC radio news this afternoon informed us that "at the moment the A380 can't fly because it is too heavy".

[747FOCAL]

You sure she is being stupid? maybe she heard right....... :E

[Cyrano]

Soundbite from T Blair at the rollout ceremony: "This is the most exciting new aircraft in the world."

What does this mean? The most exciting new aircraft ever? I don't think so. The most exciting this year? Hmm, OK, so far this year anyway :p . The most exciting aircraft whose rollout he's attended? Maybe... But what meaningless tripe. If he wants a stupid soundbite, why doesn't he just call it "the people's pantechnicon" or some such? :O

[Jordan D]

Have to say having watched a large proportion of the ceremoney through the BBC News Online streaming, it looked very good - a bit of glitz & glamour does no harm.

Anyone notice that RB was the only one without tie?

Still the machine looks good (the A380 that is), and could be fun - as for the parachutes, yes indeed Concorde did have that when it was tested (see for yourself at Duxford), and its no surprise that the A380 will have that for the test.

Jordan

[PPRuNe Pop]

RB rarely if ever wears a tie. Take him or leave him, that is how he has always been.

[panda-k-bear]

And God help her if she'd stood at the top and looked down, eh Focal?!

[TURIN]

According to last nights CH4 News, the landing gear, wings and (if RR Trent 900 chosen) engines are all produced in UK therefore almost half of the aircraft is British!!

By "half" I assume they mean half the cost.

[Zoom]

Shame that Blair is so cocky nowadays that he can't be bothered to make an effort with his speeches. He might think that it is uncool to prepare a speech beforehand and read it, but at least it would have looked as if he had taken an interest in the project. Reminds me of Nixon at the Great Wall of China: 'This sure is a ...... great ...... wall.'

[rej]

Can anyone out theer confirm how many airlines have actually placed orders for the big beasty so far.

I saw a number of different channel's new bulletins yesterday and there were gross variations - between 3 (Virgin, Singapore and Emirates) and 14.

[scroggs]

According to last nights CH4 News, the landing gear, wings and (if RR Trent 900 chosen) engines are all produced in UK therefore almost half of the aircraft is British!! By "half" I assume they mean half the cost.

I think it's slightly over half by value.

The A380 customers are:

Air France (10 firm orders/ options)
Emirates Airlines (43/10?)
Etihad (4/?)
Fedex (10/10)
ILFC (10/?)
Korean (5/?))
Lufthansa (15/?)
Malaysian(6/?)
Qantas (12/?) (Launch customer)
Qatar (2/?)
Singapore Airlines (10/15) (Launch customer)
Thai Airways (6/?)
Virgin Atlantic (6/6)
UPS (10/10)

[airbus34065]

Singapore gets serial #1
Etihad #2

[supercarb]

According to last nights CH4 News, the landing gear, wings and (if RR Trent 900 chosen) engines are all produced in UK

Airbus UK has overall design responsibility for the landing gear system but all the landing gears apart from the NLG are actually produced in the USA by Goodrich.

[G-DANM]

I hope for Boeing's sake (saying that big airliners aren't the future rather people will want medium sized long haul aircraft capable of going into regional airports) they haven't made the same mistake the Americans made when they said that there was no future in jet airliners when we rolled out the Comet.


P. S Although saying that they then launched the 707 and wiped the floor with us!

[airbus34065]

Actually, the landing gear is made in Canada.

[rej]

many thanks to Scroggs

rej

[KEPIT 2 YUSEN]

This has really has caused a stir don't you think ?

It is only another piece of flying metal, a different shape and size to many other versions of flying metal designed to do just the same as its' predecessors.

"Joe public" quite frankly would not quite grasp the technological achievements or conduct quite the same "trainspotting" analysis as many who would post on here would incline.

They would also forgive the journalistic inaccuracies reporting such a mind dulling event - after all an aeroplane is only exciting if you are doing something with it (ie flying it) in much the same way that looking at a dinner might inspire one.

In fact, adding a little journalistic spice (accuarate or not) can only add to interest of those who would otherwise quite frankly not give a damn.

Lets be done with the ritual and lets see the thing fly! If it's not too heavy

:}

[Jordan D]

Why is Ehtiad getting Serial #2? I thought Emirates were second customer after Singapore (although, why is it that Singapore are getting it first, seeing as Emirates were the first to sign up)?

Jordan

[panda-k-bear]

Contracts, dear boy, contracts.

"We'll order it but I want it first"
"No I want it first"

You see how it goes on?

As for them getting No.2, I guess it's like the Virgin A340s. Airbus will have it as a test airframe for x months or even years. When they're finished with it, probably a couple of years after they built it, they'll convert it to a full passenger aircraft and flog it off at a discount to Etihad.

[scroggs]

There are good discounts available for having early airframes off the production line, particularly if they're to be used for testing before delivery. However, many airlines don't want the pain of being launch customer, which can mean that commercial considerations for the airline can be secondary to commercial considerations for the manufacturer for a given period after launch.

[TwinAisle]

To add to Scrogg's post - what Etihad will end up with will probably be a bit of a mongrel as well.... as the test programme goes on, there will be loads of mods and tweaks applied to the production aircraft, and MSN2, whilst it may have some, won't have all of them....

So they get it cheap.... bear in mind that it will have quite a few hours on it as well, plus it will have been pushed nearer the edges of the envelope than is usual.

[markrusbarlow]

Hi Guys

Does any one know when the A380 is making its first test flight ?

Regards

[scroggs]

March 19th was mentioned at the launch.

[hobie]

First flight still on for March/April .....

Quote ....

"February 21, 2005

European planemaker Airbus said the development of its A380 superjumbo remained on track and denied problems had been encountered during stress tests on the aircraft ahead of its first flight.

"The preliminary findings indicate we are moving in the right direction," said spokesman David Voskuhl on Monday. "No serious problems have been encountered."

Voskuhl added that Airbus was still aiming for the A380 to have its first flight towards the end of March, although he repeated previous guidance that the date could slip into April.

Germany's Der Spiegel magazine reported this weekend that engineers at Airbus encountered "unexpected and significant difficulties" with the rear end of the plane when tests were carried out on it.

The landing gear was also causing engineers concern, the magazine reported, adding that the A380's first flight could be delayed by weeks.

"We are not aware of the problems that the Spiegel is claiming," Voskuhl said.

The A380, which is the world's biggest civil aircraft and was inaugurated in Toulouse, in France, last month, can seat between 555 and 850 passengers and has a list price of between USD$200 million and USD$250 million."

(Reuters)

[sandypandy]

Anyone know what engines will be fitted to the first A380 that will fly? RR? GE/PW? How is the decision made? Any news on their development? (Isn't the RR one just a bigger Trent family version whereas the US one is completely new?) There's a lot of talk elsewhere about whether the thing will get off the ground or not but for non-power reasons. Do you notice any appreciable difference in a/c performance depending on the engine manufacturer eg on a B777?

So many questions........sorry :confused:

[phoenix son]

There's a lot of talk elsewhere about whether the thing will get off the ground

Really? Why?

[sandypandy]

Phoenix son: OK - let me re-phrase. There are a number of negative posts/stories about the A380 on here (wings allegedly bouncing on the ground, problems with landing gear, problems with stress tests cf Hobie's post above), but nothing about engines. Just interested to know which type will be fitted for the test flight, at what stage of development they are, and how the decision on what engines are put on there for the test flight is made. I'm not an aviator, just SLF with an interest. That's why I posted in this forum.

Now, can you give me an answer to any of my questions?:hmm:

[ETOPS773]

First flying A380 will have RR Trent 900 powerplants.

The PW/GE "Alliance" GP7000 engine isn`t completely new,it essentialy uses a reworked GE90 core,and PW4000 main fan.

Info on GP7000 here (http://www.enginealliance.com/gpfeat.html)


Trent 900 info here (http://www.rolls-royce.com/civil_aerospace/products/airlines/trent900/engine.jsp)

[sandypandy]

Great stuff - thanks ETOPS.:)

[airhumberside]

Are A380's likely to appear at UK air shows or make test or promotional flights to the UK? If so what airports will they go to?

Thanks

[Jetavia]

The A380 will enter commercial service at Heathrow in the summer of 2006, but test flights at the airport will begin later this year. http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,5-1445214,00.html

I guess the 380 will be at the Paris airshow this summer and at next years Farnborough airshow..

[under_exposed]

airhumberside, not sure how true it is but I heard that Filton will get a visit this year.

[Byrna]

Hello All,

I'm sure this is an issue which is still being discussed but I'm curious to get a thread going on it to find out more about this humungous monster which Airbus has brought out. I wanted to discuss the A380 launch from a "required runway length" and "airport upgrades and money required" point of view...

My argument is simply really:

(1) What kind of runway requirements are expected for the A380 with a full or near full load? According the Airbus specs, I was flabbergasted to see that runways of 16,000 feet and higher are required for this Big Bird!
Can the A380 make "shortfield" take-offs and landings and how short can be the runway lenghts?... 11,000 feet? 10,000?...?

(2) If the above is true, then how many airports does Airbus expect the A380 to land on and how many are able to afford to upgrade their runways to these lengths?

(3) Having said all this, does Airbus really expect to make any money with the A380? I mean, it is obvious the standard 11,000 feet runway won't cut it if the airlines want to carry the full passanger/baggage/cargo loads so will airlines really save any money by carrying 75% capacity flights just so the thing will even have enough runway to take-off?!

John

[ETOPS773]

http://www.boeing.com/assocproducts/aircompat/industrydocs/ctol.pdf

Take a look at page 36.Even Boeing knows its a lie!!

Looks like about 3000m / 9800ft will be sufficient.Its looking to be on par with the A330-200 for Take off run at MTOW.

This will be a very profitable aircraft,have no doubt.

[Hotel Mode]

Dont know where you got 16000ft from, I cant think of any 16000ft commercial runways worldwide. As i understood it the A380 has 4 75000lb thrust engines over the 747's 58000lb engines so it has much more thrust and i believe will have similar take off performance to the -400 but at higher weights.

[Byrna]

Hello Hotel Mode,
Regarding the runway lenghts, I saw them directly in a PDF file (acrobat format) from the Airbus website a few weeks ago but now, they must have removed any links to it as I cannot find it anymore. But believe me, I did not make up that figure but I wanted to confirm what I saw again and now I cannot (unless I saved the file on my home PC - I will verify it tonight and let you know....)

As for the engines, the Airbus "characteristics" page for the A380 gives thrust of 70,000 lbs for the A380 and 76,500 lbs for the Rolls Royce Trent engines. As for 9800 ft... I doubt that very much because if this was true, then the multitude of airports including Montreal, Singapore, New York ... would not be upgrading their runways. By the way - I'm talking about runway requirements with FULL MAXIMUM load, not a partial load...

But please anyone who knows the take-off runway requirements or other specs feel free to give us the link or correct me if I'm wrong...

John

[ETOPS773]

I thought that at first too.Actually the runways are fine,footprint means the runways surface loading is about same as the 777-300s,its the taxiways width and shoulders,gate sizes and that sort of thing which is meaning money needs spending for upgrades.

I believe Airbus were trying to get an ICAO exception so they could operate at the same class taxiways as the 747-400,not sure how that went.

Perhaps the increased runway lengths were for the proposed stretched A380,the A380-900?

But the A380-800 has a giant wing and alot of thrust-I`d be suprised to see the takeoff roll above 10,000ft.

Some interesting information here:
http://www.ecac-ceac.org/nla-forum/IMG/pdf/AACG_Common_Agreement_Document_V2.1.pdf

[MarkD]

Look on airbus.com under A380 family for the Airport Planning Document. The 16000ft is a upper max of temperature, MTOW etc. 9-10k ft seems to be more likely on an operational basis.

[Byrna]

Hi MarkD,

Well, I was able to open the airport planning document which for some reason I could not when I was at work...

Here are the two relevant pages which show the runway lenghts at an altitude of SEA LEVEL at maximum MTOW at Std. temperatures. I guess you might be right actually, upon a second look at the charts (see link below), I realized that at the maximum weight at sea level, the plane can take-off using 13,000 feet of runway, but still, this is longer than most airports have.

http://www.content.airbusworld.com/SITES/Technical_Data/docs/AC/DATA_CONSULT/AC_A380.pdf

(SEE PAGES 68-75 for the take-off charts for the various models).

In any case, the turning radius and taxiway width is a big expense issue for airports too. I mean, why would an airport spend all this money for a single plane - the 777-200LR and even the A340 series can do just fine and are very fuel efficient. I guess it may be the LONG TERM SAVINGS which Airbus calculated would out-weigh the initial investment of upgrading the airports, is that right?


John

[El lute]

Byrna,
The maximum take-off weight of the A380 is 560 tonnes. The required runway length for this is nowhere near the 13,000 ft you are quoting, not even at ISA+15, which is 30 degrees Celsius at sea level.
Not even the A380F with a max. take-off weight of 590 tonnes (I think) is anywhere near your 13,000 ft.
How did you arrive at this number?

[Byrna]

How did I arrive at this number? I didn't - AIRBUS DID.

See my link to the Airbus A380 airport planning document and see for yourself!

John

[El lute]

Byrna,
OK, I have a printout of page 1, chapter 3-3-2 in front of me. This is for ISA + 15 degrees C, TRENT 970 engines.
According to this graph, the max. take-off weight line (560 t), intersects for a runway at sea level pressure altitude at 9.700 ft runway length.
It intersects with 13,000 ft runway length for an airport pressure altitude of 4,000 ft.
You read 13,000ft at sea level. That's why I asked 'How did you arrive...'

Byrna,
And to put this to rest, no airport is upgrading runways for the A380. An A380 can land on any runway that today takes a 747-400.
The upgrading required at some (!) airports concerns widening of taxiways so that the engines do not overhang on grass etc.
The turning radius of the A380 is actually smaller than that of the 747-400 due to different landing gear geometry and therefore no turning radii have to be \'upgraded\'.

[Byrna]

Hi El lute,
I must have missed something was the feeling I was getting. I thought that either the charts are interpreted a certain way or it turns out, I must have looked at the wrong line as the lines are close together...

Only time will tell if the A380 will be popular.

Don't get me wrong - being an aviation enthusiast, I love the idea of having a double-decker airplane in engineering terms and would be curious to fly one in my MS Flight Simulator and fly in one as a passanger. I was just confused about the size and weight of the airplane.

John

[rotornut]

Just read in Financial Times that the launch will be sometime next month:

http://news.ft.com/cms/s/95feddc6-9641-11d9-8fcc-00000e2511c8.html?referrer_id=yahoo&ft_ref=yahoo1&segid=03058

Any further news on the date?

[supercarb]

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/business/216153_air16.html

[Call Established]

Anyone confirm or know an exact date when the 1st flight will be ????

[PAXboy]

One certainty: It will be announced on airbus.com but no one will committ to a date until a very short time beforehand, I suspect.

--------------------
"I tell you, we are here on Earth to fart around, and don't let anybody tell you any different." Kurt Vonnegut, Jr.

[rotornut]

See:

http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=1798248#post1798248

[Crappy A380]

They will do the flight secretly so no-one will see it fail!

[Ace Rimmer]

The word I've heard is the 8th of April

[Toulouse]

I've also heard something about the 8th of 9th of April... but I think that's just yet another rumour.

Airbus.com will definitely inform of the date when it is confirmed. Actually, there is a thing on the Airbus website where you can enter your email address and they say they'll inform you of when the first flight takes place.

Crappy A380, take it you think the 380 is crappy. So where did you get they great insight? Anyway, I think it'll be hard to hide the first flight from all us curious inhabitants of the Toulouse area.

This past week an A380 is parked on the rank just beside the hangar about 150 metres fromthe main road to where I live, so I'm seeing the back of it every day now... it looks so wonderful. Actually, from that distance and from the perspective available from the road (a rear view) it actually looks quite 'normal', at a quick glance you wouldn't even notice it's a double-decker. The main giveaway from that distance is the size of the wings. Though remember, all these views I've had are while I'm driving by, trying to look at the plane and look at the road... not an easy thing to do, especially with all the road works on that particular road!

[catchup]

Will the test flight be fully automatic, or with pilots?

Regards
;)

[Crappy A380]

catchup - Pilots aren't really needed in Airbus' ;)

[brabazon]

April 1 anyone? Or as they say in French: Poisson d'avril - at least some part of my O level (that shows my age!) French was useful!!!

So are we starting a sweepstake?

[eal401]

Pilots aren't really needed in Airbus'
Boeings can't fly themselves then? How backward is that? :rolleyes:

[Few Cloudy]

eal401 - even the Harrier could fly backwards - with a pilot of course...

[eal401]

Very funny Few Cloudy. Of course, the Harrier likes a swim too. :p

[panda-k-bear]

Not so much a swim as a sink, eal.

Toulouse - be nice when they finish the dual carriageway, won't it? Make life easier getting to Seilh golf course...

[Toulouse]

It certainly will Panda... it'll also make commutting easier. Any idea when they plan to finish?
Glorious weather, isn't it? :ok:

[panda-k-bear]

Dunno - not in TLS at the mo. Only an occasional visitor (both to TLS and Seilh :ok: )

Don't know about finish dates - but they looked to be getting on with it the day before yesterday when I passed by.

[Jerricho]

They will do the flight secretly so no-one will see it fail!

747Focal.............is that you?

(Wait, couldn't be. No porn link)

For those wondering what I'm on about, Mr Focal has a habit of linking sites in Jet Blast that contain items not suitable for this PG rated timeslot.

[MarkD]

whoever CA380 is, he's the first occupant of my ignore list. 747f at least occasionally shows signs of cop-on. CA380's just a troll and Danny's provided the tools to deal with the likes of them.

[hobie]

good idea MD ... :ok:

[aerotransport.org]

Issues with engines implementation.. maybe in May, maybe not :-(

Alexandre.

[panda-k-bear]

My techno-weenie on the inside reckons it'll be within the next three weeks or so. My buddy from Rolls assures me the engines are on, integrated and are in a workable state.

Is that some sort of ad in the post above me, btw?

[VC10 Rib22]

I concur with the panda, my friend was viewing her in Toulouse this week and was given a similar timescale. However, with so much importance riding on the test, this time can change from day-to-day as it is so dependent on everything being right on the day, and we all know how fickle aircraft can be.

I'll be seeing her at the Paris airshow in June but expect her in the sky long before then.

:ok:

[panda-k-bear]

Have any of our Toulouse based chums seen her charging up and down the runway yet? That'd be a good pointer to the timescale I shouldn't wonder.

[Toulouse]

Haven't seen her on the runway yet at Toulouse airport, but she might have been when I wasn't around... but I'll keep a closer eye on that in the coming days.

The front page of La Dépeche du Midi yesterday (Toulouse's local newspaper) had its main headline saying "Toulouse. Le premier vol prévu aux alentours du 11 avril. A380: décollage dans l'air"... basically, first flight expected 'around' April 11th.

:ok:

[ionagh]

Those familiar with the vaguaries of the french language will realise that this means 'we are not sure' but here is a good guess..... :} Similar phrases can be heard when trying to have a rendezvous for a plumber.

And so far I have only seen her move very slooooowly.

When it does fly, I should find out quite quick as I live just under their main certification flight route.

[Toulouse]

Yep, that's definitely a spot-on interpretation of the French used Ionagh...