View Full Version : You can carry a weapon on QR
16th Jan 2005, 06:59
From the Khaleej Times: 14 Jan 05
SANAA — Qatar Airways was forced to change the pilot of a Sanaa-bound flight after he refused to fly with a Yemeni politician carrying a dagger, a media report said yesterday.
The British pilot protested against ground crew allowing the speaker of the Yemeni parliament, Shaikh Abdullah bin Hussein Al Ahmar, to embark on the Airbus jet carrying a Yemeni traditional dagger, or jambiya.
After several unsuccessful attempts to persuade Shaikh Al Ahmar to hand over the weapon, the pilot decided not to fly, said the almotamar.net web site, run by Yemen’s GPC ruling party.
The airline officials managed to convince sons of Al Ahmar to hand over their daggers to the flight’s security officer, who returned them after the plane’s arrival in Sanaa.
But the company hurried to change the pilot after the Yemeni speaker insisted on travelling with his weapon.
16th Jan 2005, 07:13
Word has it that he was also on a flight from BAH to DXB on EK and the flight was delayed by over 40 minutes due to the same reason. Finally, a compromise was reached and the dagger (a very valuable one I am told) was given to the captain for the duration of the flight.
16th Jan 2005, 08:05
Something of a grey area this, and one of those situations where you go to work in the morning, and may find yourself without a job in the afternoon.
The Khanjar (as it is called in Oman) is part of the ceremonial dress of high ranking officials and members of the royal family. On official business, they will at least wear the daggers until inside the aircraft, and put them on again before emerging from the aircraft door.
So it becomes our problem, since nobody on the ground will challenge their right to wear them.
Normally the daggers will be handed over to the SFS inside the aircraft, but what to do when the dignitaries refuse to hand them over?
Delicate situation, to say the least.
Did QR by any chance trade the Brit with a local pilot?
16th Jan 2005, 10:23
Actually it is no Grey area at all here at Qatar Airways.
Our Manual says it in black and white.
The manual does go into a few more details but for security reasons I will not say on a forum to the world what these are incase it is a breach of some security company code. for those who work at QR you can find it in your manual.
The only Grey area here is will this pilot have his job at the end of the day or not? Also he is not a British guy, he is from a European country, but not British. He is still at Qatar Airways but have not heard any more as to if he has flown since that flight. Also I am not sure what pilot took his place?
I would of thought the Ameri fleets of all these countries is for this type of travelling passenger? What do I know?????????
17th Jan 2005, 06:58
Qatar Airways are trying to get flying rights to the USA and pulling stunts like this? It made the news papers as well?
GOOD LUCK trying to convince the USA HomeLand Security that you got all your SAFETY PROCEDURES organized.!!!!!!!!!!!!!
18th Jan 2005, 20:20
In responce to I-FORD. I've seen lots of officers of the peace and politicians carrying fire arms on the aircraft as well. But these arms must be unloaded unless you are transporting a prisonner. And this is all subject to the Captains approval.
19th Jan 2005, 07:33
Should we consider banning spirit bottles,coat hangars,fire axe, first aid kits etc,etc!!!! they all can be turned into lethal weapones ;)
19th Jan 2005, 11:33
Security as we all know has HUGE loop holes in it and you and I can sit here and see many many many ways to turn everyday normal day to day items into weapons.
I will tell you that as you say in Italy you fly DOMESTICALLY one way and still have rights to fly to the USA. You are correct my friend but just remember that what can be done on certain flights cannot be done on others with the new security systems and the rules that are put into place these days. I will give you the Example of the Stainless Steel Knife.
You cannot fly into the UK with the cutlery set with a metal knife in it. You can fly from Dubai to Doha on Qatar ( or any airline) with a full, nice set of knives and folks but on your flight to London you will get the plastic job. This is because the security in the UK put this into play and NO AIRLINE is allowed to do this, ALL AIRLINES will have plastic sets of cutlery for passengers and crew.
Going into the USA they have MANY RULES put into place by the TSA ( Transportation Security Administration) who are now more powerful than GOD!
I read Safari Goat's statement as if he/she is trying to say that the RULES FOR SAFETY on board a commercial flight need to be adhered to in all circumstances at all times as per the operating manual that you submit to the USA homeland security if you want to not get fined by the USA authorites. Can you imagine this person walking into the USA immigration hall with his sword? he/she might get all the way through with no problem but what if some questions were asked? and then the QR books were reviewed? and no paperwork was generated for the carriage of this ? We are going a bit deep now with this senario but you can see that it can only come back to harm you if the security procedures are not followed. You would be surprised at the amount of red tape you have to go through as an airline to get clearance to enter into the USA for procedures, crew clearance, airline security and safety records, etc etc etc ....... A LONG LIST. Do I agree with them as Hajj Man or a pilot? Not all of them but I am just a small voice in the security system that is put into place.
I will Agree with you that nail clippers are a bit much and some of the undoing of your belt and taking the shoes off is getting carried away but you try to argue with them and see where you will end up? it is a loosing battle to argue with the new security mentality in the world today generated by the Sept 11.
In the Qatar airways manual it says it is a firm policy of Qatar airways and that under no circumstances..... It also goes into more but you can appreciate that this captain was following the book and if for any reason anything was to happen that jeopardized the SAFETY of the flight and its PASSENGERS, it would have been him in trouble! Why him you asked? Because no one in the chain of security from the check-in counter all the way to the aircraft door wanted to go against a V.VIP ( Very Very Important Person as they are called in QR) and take responsebility to say NO. The Responsibility is passed here like a hot item at QR ALL THE TIME..!!
The talk is that he ( the captain) after being TOLD to take this person and the Sword on the aircraft by the top manager, the captain asked for a signed piece of paper saying it was ok to carry this sword onboard the aircraft and instead of getting the signiture, he was removed from the flight and another captain replaced him. (hear say on the way this one played out.)
At QR guys/gals follow this book so carefully not to get into trouble and now he is following the book to the letter and he is getting in trouble, What is this? It should of never gotten all the way to the captain to make this final decision in the first place, it should have been handled way back at the check in counter or the gate. The ENTIRE problem here is that no one wants to make a decision here and the problem travels down the line until someone with any sence says NO..... This "passing the buck" happens ohhhhhh to many times at QR.
I will say again that Ameri flights are for Shaikhs, Kings,Queens,presedents, Priministers, Lords, and all people of this nature to travel on. If you are on a commercial flight and you have a boarding pass just like the person sitting next to you then all of the security and airline rules apply to you just as much as they apply to him/her. Yes I do agree that if they want to drive up to the airplane in a special car, have a red carpet and any other frills then that is entirely up to the airline to put in place what is good for them. But in the manual at QR it is in BLACK AND WHITE that security procedures apply to all passengers except if prior arrangements are put into place.
It was said that you fail to see how an ornamental, traditional old dagger carried as part of a traditional costume by some dignitary, could pose a threat to flight security? well who would of thought that a box cutters would of posed a threat either? As I said before it does get carried away with the nail clippers etc etc etc, but this Sword falls under the heading of "WEAPON." and it is not allowed, FINAL!!
My main concern is that "IT SHOULD HAVE NEVER GOTTEN THIS FAR!!!!!!!" I as a pilot think that this Captain should not be off line for any length of time for this procedure he followed in the book!!!!
Happy Eid to all.......
23rd Jan 2005, 02:53
Hajj Man, It is the same old story at GF as well. It is maybe the same at all carriers out this side I would think?