Interesting Approaches?

[DOC.400]

Having not quite exhausted the potential of FS2004 Century of Flight (Xmas pressie from Mrs DOC.400 -bless her!), I've got hooked on flying approaches based on Jeppesens Simcharts Europe disc.

Innsbruck for one, off the hold at 9500' and a 4 degree decent profile to offset localiser........fine until I attempted the 'circle to land'..... :-( -are there any other European airfields with involved approaches I should have a go at??

Rgds
DOC

[minibus3]

Hi DOC,

One that comes to mind is Samos, Greece (LGSM/SMI).

From memory(!); it's 6000' by the SAM VOR, outbound from the SAM VOR R-165 descending to 3000', and then right turn inbound to the VOR descending to MDA for a circling approach most often to 09. Quite challenging! Also consider the weather, with the wind from the north off the hills, with gusts.

Best of luck,

Chris

[Jinkster]

Gibraltar (LXGB) - interesting approach due to wind from the rock and approach over the sea.

London City (EGCY) - 5 degree glide slope

err... cant think of anymore.

oh....i was playing on flight sim, cant remember the name but on 2004 in Canada there is an airport which is below the sea (!!! I know) basically water pours like a waterfall around it!

Very odd. Think it was in BC somewhere.

Good luck,

Jinkster

[chiglet]

I believe that "Bluey West One" Greenland is "interesting"
watp,iktch

[Hotel Mode]

The ones i've flown for real Innsbruck is the most fun (normally go visual down the valley, but the one time i went to minima on that approach in a snow storm concentrated the mind!) Nice is very scenic, the Riviera visual particularly. Marseilles involves lots of changes of direction and Beacon and can be quite busy. Still think the approach to LHR at dusk or dawn takes some beating for views!

Also try spitzbergen in flight sim if you can find charts

[UPSAirOps]

I have a friend who lives in St. Maarten and am planning to visit probably over April at some point - looking forward to the approach into SXM!

[Empty Cruise]

As far as LOWI is concerned - the circling manoeuvre is best concluded on an intercept hdg to the opposite rwy IGS (ILS, really, but they cannot call it that since some rocks at 1,5 NM final penetrate the ILS OAS). When commencing the turn, switch to the nwe ILS frq & set the CDI to the new heading, then arm APCH. Works a treat :} Oh yeah - in real life, let the FMC do it for you :ouch:

Of other interesting apches i can recommend ENMO, EKVG, EGPB, and LZSI - all good fun.

Brgds,
Empty

[ATIS]

If your computer has it try Sion in Switzerland (LSGS). 6 degree IGS approach from 25 to 5 miles. Then a visual segment with a slight dog leg to avoid overflying the local hospital.

[Kestrel_909]

Sion, LSGS (I think) is quite scenic.

[DOC.400]

Well, I can only thank you all for the feedback!!

I will try them ALL!!

Jinkster -You're right on Samos, interesting as you fly towards the mountain on downwind for 09!! My wife got stranded there a few years ago due to the Melteme blowing.....The outbound leg from the beacon very close to Turkish airspace, that must have made life a bit more interesting a few years ago.......

London City -I've heard it's like going down on an elevator, and even FS gives that impression!!! BTW, they have an informative little website: www.lcacc.org/operations.html

Hotel Mode -tks for feedback on Innsbruck.

Empty Cruise -APCH? Sorry, not familiar with that FLA....Have found plate for Visual Approach Procedure with headings and heights -it's just difficult to keep track of the runway on the sim!!

ATIS -now Sion, you're talking!! That took a couple of attempts to get right......Whilst approach plate shows 7400' QNH at D12, not clear on whether to coninue at DA (H) (4500') past hospital and then descend to land?

I've also found Marseille and Nice plates, and also Narsarsuaq, which warns about icebergs on finals.....eek!

I'll have a crack at Gib, must dial in some turbulence to make it real, judging by the warnings, and keep clear of Spanish airspace -does that still apply.

I can see where you guys earn your money!! ;-)

Keep 'em coming.

Oh and BTW, min. approach speed for a B737-400 please?


Rgds
DOC

[ATIS]

DOC.400

At 4500 DA elect to continue or go-around. If continuing its visual all the way to runway. So therefore you can descend, but at a normal rate. The PAPI's are pretty good if its not too sunny.

In the years that I have been flying, its the only flight where I keep on hearing of passengers getting out of their seats to get a good view. We seat the cabin crew for landing b4 leaving MOT VOR. Its about a further 15 mins for the procedure. Stunning views on a nice day.

By the way what a/c type did you use on the sim.
Enjoy

Forgot to add absolutely NO OVERFLYING of the hospital, hence the dog leg. I\'m sure the PAX are thinking where is this fool going now

[BeechNut]

Try Longyear in the Svalbard islands, rwy 28 localizer: approach on 351T from the SV beacon, intercept the localizer at 5000', fly down the localizer on 301T, down a mountain valley, the go visual before MDA of 530' and line up to land. You can fly the 737, there's jet service to that airport.

Kathmandu is also pretty interesting.

Also try a visual into Bhutan's only airport, in a jet (Air Bhutan is apparently getting or has received an A319, so it's doable...supposedly).

Mike

[TheOddOne]

Another good one is Funchal on Madeira. The ends of the runway are on stilts over the sea, with just a 1-metre parapet at the ends of the runway. It's a commander-only landing and all foreign pilots have to have a checkout from the Portugese.

Cheers,
The Odd One

[DOC.400]

Thanks again chaps!! More for the list.......

ATIS -I'm using the 737-400. But I do enjoy flying the DC3.....

Svalbard (Spitzbergen)-funny you should mention it, just flown the ILS DME 10 approach, I'll save 28 for another time!! Looks bl**dy involved though. Had to change to summer time to see the scenery as at this time of year it appears to be 24 hour darkness!

I never cease to be amazed as to what this FS can do......

Rgds
DOC

[BeechNut]

I flew Svalbard 28 last night myself. Night, with the weather turned to "winter storms". Popped out just at the right place to finish visually. Using a 737-300 downloaded and tweaked, with a photo-realistic panel.

Helps keep the skills honed while me Beechcraft is indoors getting some preventive TLC this winter.

Just for fun I have an old US Air 737 Ops manual at home (so old some pages are still labelled "Piedmont", and the data is incomplete for the 737-400 as they were just coming out then); so before each flight, I go through the trouble of calculating needed fuel for destination, alternate and hold, adding some payload, figuring out a take-off weight, and then pulling out the V-speeds for the takeoff. And at landing I pull out Vref for the approach. For Svalbard my alternate is my departure point (Tromso) so the takeoff at Tromso is made near MGTOW for a basic (LGW) 737-300.

Mike

[Billings]

DOC,

I take it you're flying the default 737-400 that comes with FS2004?

If you are, you really need to look at the PMDG 737NG series of add on aircraft. You can find them here :

PMDG Website (http://www.precisionmanuals.com)

This package includes the B737-600/700/800/900 and has options for winglets or not.

The only way I can describe this package is that it is the closest to the real thing as I have seen.

Fully functional MCP(VS mode/N1 mode/LVL Change/LNAV and VNAV/Bank angle limiter/Speed and ALT intervention buttons/CWS mode and full autoland).

FMC is about 90% of fully functional(Full LNAV and VNAV functionality with speed and path descents. Calculates V1, Vr and V2 depending on your GW and T/O flap settings with callouts, fuel flow computer so it will calculate VRef for a flaps 15, 30 or 40 approach. N1 limit page for derated take offs and climbs. The list goes on...)

TCAS is also available with full TA/RA functionality with the MCP/FMC and it also has GPWS!

Flies like the real thing(as reported by 737NG pilots who beta tested the product) including spoilers that aren't very effective. :} This will completely immerse you in 737 procedures and I think you'll find it just as much of a challenge learning to use this plane as you did learning the approach procedures.

Sort of looks real nice aswell! :8

In fact if you have a look around, you will find a lot of add ons for FS. Some are freeware and some are not. I generally find that the payware add ons are less troublesome and are, 9 times out of 10, worth every penny.

Anyway, hope this helps. Any other questions, just drop, me a note.

Cheers!

Paul.

[DOC.400]

Eeeek!! What have I started!!

Thanks for all that!!

DOC

[BOAC]

DOC - try 140 kts, landing at 135. That's a sort of ball-park figure.

[PPRuNe Pop]

Hi DOC.

My esteemed colleague is quite right :E Just thought I would mention it. :D

[paddyboy]

Bhutan...:eek:

I believe it's only VFR but still good fun!

[ComJam]

Sondestrome Fjord in Greenland, just how close is the wingtip to the fjord "wall" :)

Frightened me first time i did it VFR :D

CJ

[chiglet]

CJ.
Isn't BGSF where the real Santa starts from?
watp,iktch

[reverserunlocked]

Billings, you beat me too it. As a PPL holder, I still fiddle with FS quite regularly and the PMDG 737NG is almost as much fun as a real PA28!

The default 737 is really a sorry excuse for an aircraft. You'll be blown away by the PMDG model. Also give some thought to the Dreamfleet 727 which is amazing, the Captain Sim 707, the Dreamfleet ATR 72 and the upcoming PMDG 747-400 and Level D 767-300! As you can see, it can become an immersive hobby!!

[richlear]

what about the approach into Kai Tak (the old Hong Kong airport) the last minute right hand turn made it spectacular...I remember going in there one very bumpy night from SIN....excellent!

[timmcat]

Going way back, this (http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=44856) thread I started gave some good examples which I put into MSFS with good results.

[vrandar]

Now you need to try all this online with live ATC. Have a look at www.vatsim-uk.org and for an excellent VA try www.bavirtual.co.uk. Online flying takes the flightsim to a whole new level.

[Conan the Librarian]

I have to admit to being an old hand with FS2004 and an even older hand with the Alps. Yes, the PMDG 737 is where it's at, with no near competition. It does depend which terrain mesh you use, but nonetheless, it is fun even with the default.

Try this little lot in the 737 (even the default) and you will enjoy. No, I am not going to fire it up to give you the missing ICAO codes, but these are all Alpine pearls and you can do them all sequentially.

Mollis (LSMF)
Interlaken (LSMI)
Ambri (LSPM)
Innsbruck (LOWI)
Samedan (errrr)
Buochs (errrrr)
Saanen (errrr)
St. Stephan (errr)

Courcheval (no - just don't bother - even in the Cub)

try knocking the weather down to to ten miles vis for starters. I promise, it will make you concentrate. If you see any fins sticking out of the hills, a fiver that it belonged to me. Nice thing with the PMDG 737 is that if you decide to trust your bowels, the go around is as nerve wracking as finals.

Do enjoy....

PS PMDG 737 - do land at a sensible weight. Otherwise, you will be screwe..... Sad innit? Enjoy!

[lasernigel]

Just a couple of questions relating to all these add ons.
I have the 330/340 add on and also the concorde one.I now fancy putting the PMDG on also.BUT how do you get FS ATC to interact with these or can't you?

[reverserunlocked]

Lasernigel,

FS's own ATC will interact with the PMDG 737NG in the same way as the Concorde and A330/40 add on's.

I found the PSS A340 very disappointing - lazy panel, poor VC, buggy, poor frame rates, exterior model average....

You'll be impressed with the PMDG model though, I'm yet to find someone who isn't.

[lasernigel]

reverseunlocked Thanks for that but do you have to activate it from a drop down as I can't see where the icon is.(sorry to appear thick!)

[Kestrel_909]

You'll be impressed with the PMDG model though, I'm yet to find someone who isn't.

There are those who complain saying ''I can't do this...'' and ''I can't do that with it, what sort of crap model is it,'' but it's usually those who think the default is the dogs bollox and they can take off in Tesco's carpark, make 30,000ft in 3 minutes and start the engines with one click:ok:

Every man to their own, once the PMDG 744 and LDS 767 comes out I can rule the world :E

[reverserunlocked]

Laser,

I'm not entirely sure I know what you mean. To select the Concorde for example, you go to 'create a flight' then to the 'selected aircraft' menu, pull down the menu until you see 'Aerospatiale/BAC' and select 'Concorde' in whichever livery you want.

For the PMDG it's the same method but underneath the default 'Boeing' in the menu you'll see 'Boeing PMDG' and then go in there and select the model of 737 that you want, 600/700/800/900, in the livery you want.

For ATC services, load up a flight with the planner, once your 737 is loaded up ask ATC for your IFR clearance, and away you go!

And Kestrel, I know what you mean!

[muppethead]

Chaps,

while we are speaking about sims, does anyone know of a decent B767, DC10 or MD11 add on to FS2002 (excluding the Wilco one)

Any links to the website would be very much appreciated!!

Cheers.

[reverserunlocked]

Hi Muppet

There's not much in the way of MD11's or DC10's, certainly nothing with a panel that's up to much for FS2002. Of course, the much adored PIC 767 is patchable for FS2002, but you mentioned that one.

I'd get youself a copy of FS9 and hang fire (shouldn't be more than a couple of weeks) for the release of the Level D Simulations 767-300.

It's developed partly by the creators of the PIC original and now is updated with all the bells and whistles of FS9. They added the operations manual to the website and as you can see, there's more than enough bedtime reading for a few weeks....

www.leveldsim.com

Also PMDG are working on an MD-11, looks good so far.

www.precisionmanuals.com

Again, it's for FS9 only, so bad news for FS2002 users :{

Cheers

RU

[muppethead]

Thanks reverser!!

If the MD11 is as good as the 737NG then it should be a nice piece of kit. One of the best add ons Ive seen to date.

Cheers, Muppet.:ok:

[Billings]

Lasernigel,

FS inbuilt ATC works with any aircraft that you have or can download.

To activate the ATC all you need is a key to open the ATC window. From memory(I don't use inbuilt ATC that much) I think it's the ` key. If not, you can go to your options menu, then assignments and assign a key to open the ATC window.

Also, remember to also activate dynamic scenery in the display menu and in the ATC menu bring up your traffic percent. Otherwise, it'll be a bit loney up there :O

Cheers!

PS... as others have said, there is so much more to flying FS than flying stand alone. There's a huge online community, supplying just multiplayer or multiplayer with ATC(Not computer generated and over voice aswell). If you need any info, just ask.

[pax britanica]

Can I ask some you xpert simmers a quick question-I was thinking about buying the PMD 73 add on as Ive heard so many good reviews but will it work on my pc which has 768 kbs RAM or do I need more memory
PB

[Billings]

Hi,

First of all, I want to apologise to the mods for the thread drift into a general FS discussion. I may have started it with my comment about the PMDG 737NG product. :\

Let me add a contribution to the original question. :ok:

I don't believe anyone has mentioned the Canarsie(VOR) approach into Rwy13L+R at KJFK.

The initial approach procedure isn't too much to worry about. The challenge is the turn to finals after the VOR. I believe the airport actually has curved line of guide lights, leading to the runways installed into the surrounding neighbourhood, as an approach aid. Nice challenge in a 747 with a heavy load.

Also, the LDA approach(offset LOC) into Rwy19 at KDCA(Regan national) is a challenge. Bugger of a turn on short finals to line up. :}

You should check out more of the non-precision approaches available. These generally are a bit more challenging than a standard ILS approach, requiring more focus than just pressing the APR button once you start establishing. :ok:

Hope this helps.

Cheers!


PS....pax britanica, the way your computer will perform is not just down to the amount of RAM you have. Mainly it'll depend on your combination of processor, graphics card and RAM. Send me a private message with your machine specs and I'll let you know. Don't want this thread to drift any further than it already has. :oh:

[av8boy]

I believe that "Bluey West One" Greenland is "interesting"
Hey! My father was one of them what built the runway at Bluey West Eight! Really!

Never thought to try it in FS2004....

[Kestrel_909]

Ok, here's some more info.

VOR to 13L/R at JFK
www.airnav.com Type in JFK and the scroll down the page.
You can see the curving approach lights (well Im guessing thats them!)

Or how about the Parkaway Visual to 13L/R

LGA,
Try the Express Visual to 31 and the River Visual to 13.
Again charts, www.airnav.com

DCA
River Visual runway 19.

Charts as above.


Now, good ole Canada and BC!
Castlegar, CYCG.

CYCG Charts (http://www.czvr.ca/czvr/airports/fields.aspx?icao=cycg)
Ooo it's fun, I think someone used to operate 737-200s into it until recently. Following the alts and no straight in approaches, circling only

:E


SGU St.George, Utah
Around 3000ft high and about 3feet wide, try the dme arc to runway 16.



Have fun

:ok:

[Teddy Robinson]

try Florence offset ILS 23, circle to land 05 .. thats fun !

[desertspytfyre]

Up near the top of my list would be Baguio. This is the summer capital of the Philippines about 5000 ft up and surrounded by mountains. Runway is about 4900 ft from memory and departure on 29 (27?) can be exciting. No ILS. Heavily undulated runway with occasional cattle just to add to the fun. Chuck in a bit of wind and you get the general idea.

Innsbuck when the foehn is blowing. I have also flown gliders out of there in the same conditions. Fun or what?

Lastty, Gig (North Front) in a Shack Mk 2 with the levanter blowing. Means you are coming in on the 'sticky out bit' with wind changes of up to 90 degrees on finals.