Learning to Fly in late 30's

[don9999]

I'm 38, and have finally secured sufficient spare funds to fulfill my ambition to learn to fly!

When I was younger and at University I wanted to become a commercial pilot. However, I didn't have any money to fund the training, and there were no subsidised programmes available. However, I went on to qualify as a solo glider pilot, and over the years have completed 10 hours of fixed wing and one hour of helicopter flight training.

I'm now ready to complete a full fixed-wing flying course, and possibly a helicopter course too. I'm considering doing all this in America, as with the weak dollar the costs are very cheap at the moment - £3k for fixed-wing, or £5k for helicopter! However, I have a family and probably can't spare the 3-5 weeks being away from home. Hence, I 'may' consider paying more, and training in the UK.

I'd be interested to hear from any other members who are in the same position ie. learning to fly a little later in life.

I suspect I'm now too old to consider a career as a commerical pilot, though I wonder whether I might train to be an instructor and do some work (if only part-time) teaching others. I've heard (especially for helicopters) that older instructors are often favoured to younger ones as they might 'appear' to be more knowledgeable/professional (even though they may not be). In any case, they are likely to have more advanced skills in other areas, such as empathy, teaching skills and other personnel skills.

Look forward to your feedback.

Cheers,
Don

[no sponsor]

Don,

Use the search function to find the many and varied answers to your question.

It has been asked a thousand times before.

[RVR800]

Since low interest rate loans became commonplace and house prices have risen the number of people able to pay for their
own PPL IMC Night CPL IR ATPL MCC Type-Rating Line-Training has increased.

We do not know how many people there are at the various stages because that information is not freely available on the CAA web site as it is in the US for instance.

Suffice to say that there are many hundreds of people subsidising their own training and standing in line waiting for the 'call' Many to my knowledge have been waiting for an extremely long time some give up and get other work. Instructing pays around the national minimum wage and can cost you about 20K in all.

Essentially the low-cost sector is benefitting greatly from this pilot subsidy as their training budget is always in surplus. Ryanair etc see pilot training as a revenue generator.

The CAA are keen to get you into the exam system because they get nealy £60 for each mult-choice exam you do - 16 exams are required for the integrated CPL/IR but stangely only 14 for the ATPL/IR. You have cannot fly with the Airlines with a CPL/IR without passing the ATPL exams although you can instruct although GAPAN are planning to do away with the CPL for instructing so that may change again soon.

In the US from the year 2007 one will go straight from PPL stage into the RHS of an airliner and the expensive Single Crew non glass cockpit IR training will be avoided (cost £6/minute) that sim training no doubt paid for by the student if the trends of the past are maintained

Helicopter instructors are paid a lot more than their fixed wing brethren 2 or 3 times as much.

[jamestkirk]

Hello.

This probably won't be that helpful, but it may start the search you need for statistics.

Before I started the ATPL ground school, I Searched the web for statistics on ATPL training and ages.

There is a website that lists the UK licence holders: PPL, CPL etc. and the ages of pilots when the licence was issued.

f i remember rightly, i put 'ages of pilots', 'pilot training ages', or something like that into a search engine.

Most are about 28 - 32 ish. (please don't quote me on that).

Sorry I cannot be more specific and hope it helps.

JTK

[JamesTigris]

"Helicopter instructors are paid a lot more than their fixed wing brethren 2 or 3 times as much"

Is this true? Reading the rotorheads forum seems to suggest the opposite, its a given that fixed wing is where the money is if you can make it.

[Whirlygig]

Yes, helicopter instructors are paid slightly more than fixed wing in the PPL/GA market but their training cost CONSIDERABLY more. In all other respects, fixed wings commercial pilots are paid more than commercial helicopter pilots, experience for experience.

Cheers

Whirlygig

[flydaddy]

Hi,
I have been where you are asking am I too old etc (33), and should I go there or stay here.
In the end I decided to go to Truman at Nottingham, and I was flying with them today, if you pay upfront the cost of the course can be around £4100 so not that my dearer plus the bonus of not paying for Visa etc etc I really am sure it is better to learn here as lots of clubs are not happy to rent planes to those who have exclusively flon in the States not at least without having a flight or two with an instructor.
This i know is not for a clubs but just worth bearing in mind.
PM me if you require more information.
Good luck with your searching.
fLYDADDY

[Frank Furillo]

Well I am 35 and did my FAA PPL/NR and JAA PPL/NR (inc R/T Licence) in Florida in Oct 2003.

0 to 150 Hours in 8 weeks and converted my FAA to JAA with only Two JAA exams to sit, Aviation Law and Human Performance.

This cost me less than here and to do that here would take much longer. Most schools I spoke to could not give me any times even near to that is obtainable in the States.


The cost was as follows:
38 Hours Dual @ $110= $4180
113 Hours Solo @ $85= $9350
Total $13530.00
okay add in $2000 for Fuel and exams, $1960 for motel cost, $500 per week living exp $4000 Total in the US=$21490 or £11940 (at $1.8 to the £) include air fare and other small items £1500 and the grand total is £13440.

Now the school I fly with here in England charge £100 per hour, plus Landing fees.
113 Hours @ 100 p/h=£ 113000 (sorry that should be £11300)

To learn to fly they Quote a price of £5500 (inc of exams and Landing fee's) so to do the same in England would have cost me £3360 more. That paid for my Ground School, Exams and Boarding while on the brush up!!!!!

All the clubs I have used back here in England require new customers to go up with an instructor anyway, you will get a few hours with them before they let a low houred pilot off on his own.

I am not saying that flying in the states is better or worse, i will not be drawn in to an argument.

[don9999]

Very interesting Frank.

Can I ask a couple of follow-up Q's?

Was there any particular reason that you did 150+ hours in America? Was it to get got enough to get your PPL, or just hour-building, or training towards another rating?

I 'thought' average for PPL was around 65 hours (though I may be wrong).

What do you do now? Just fly a few hours each year in the UK for fun, in order to maintain your PPL?

Cheers,
Don

[flydaddy]

Yes if you are going for a longer stint then yes the states is going to work out cheaper.
But as the first listings says i think he has a family to think of and not all of us want to leave our kids etc for that long if there is a way around it.
I will be going to the USA to do some hour building as like you say the solo/rental rate is very low.
But just to do the initial PPL it does not work out that much cheaper, plus as i said earlier no trading standards should you run into a cowboy or 2.
I realise not all schools are bad, but as dozens of people have found it is frustrating if you have picked a bum one.
No argument to get drawn into simply expressing my views as asked by the instigator of this post.
Happy Landings to you all.
Flydaddy.

[no sponsor]

Frank,

I think your figures are up the duff. I work out your calculation as being £11,300 not the £113,000 From your own figures it looks like it would have been cheaper in the UK. But, it would have taken you about 5 years due to the dodgy weather in the UK.

[Frank Furillo]

Hi Don
Well I did 150 Hours as a hour building exercise, I need 200 hours to get issue of my CPL and the school I went with arranged for me to do my hour building at the same time. It is VERY hard to be away from loved ones, my fiancee, missed me like mad, we don't have children so I cannot comment on that. The time away felt like hell at times. In the last twelve months I have managed to fly about 20 hours in England while doing my ATPL gound studies. I am going to start my CPL/ME and IR in march after I have finished my studies.
There are lots of good and bad schools out there, so be careful who you pick.

No sponsor many thanks for that, i did wonder why i have no more money!!!!!!!!! Oh well serves me right for not checking my post.
FF

[BEagle]

RVR800, will you kindly stop alleging that "You have cannot fly with the Airlines with a CPL/IR without passing the ATPL exams although you can instruct although GAPAN are planning to do away with the CPL for instructing so that may change again soon. - because it simply is not true.

[Biscuit]

If you are older and you just want to get everything nailed fast, then the USA is probably the best option. I agree the cost saving is not that great anymore but the time saving means you can get back to work (hopefully flying job!) quickly and recover the financial situation. Wife and kids can always come and visit for a fortnight! When I was out in the US a few guys had their extended families with them!!