UK ATPL with 18 months to 38 point?!

[Sandy Wings]

Looking for guidance reference rules/currency prior to my exit from the Airforce in Oct 06? Can anyone help or should I just waste a day or two on the phone to the Campaign Against Aviation?
My details are UK ATPL initial issue Feb 01(out on Feb 06), IR Aug 00 and I am current on the Tonka with 3500 hrs total time. Guessing that I need to revalidate my licence and complete an MCC cse. Can I do that all at once with an IR renewal?
Happy Landings

[BEagle]

Your UK ATPL will not have expired yet.

Unless it contains a valid Class or Type Rating and a valid JAA Medical Certificate, you will be unable to use your licence privileges.

You may also need to renew/revalidate your Class 1 medical.

You should not need to complete any MCC course if you hold a UK (not JAR-FCL) ATPL.

You do NOT need to convert your UK ATPL into a UK-issued JAR-FCL ATPL.

You'll need to renew both your IR and (presumably) MEP Class Rating on something like a Seneca. Also consider renewing your FI rating as it may make you more marketable when you leave. You might be able to use ELCs for this - PM me if you want to do this and I'll aim you at someone suitable!

[BigGrecian]

Just a quick question - how did you manage to get your fATPL converted to a full one whilst serving in the RAF?

[BEagle]

'fATPL' refers to a UK-issued JAR-FCL CPL(A) with ATPL knowledge. Sandy Wings stated that he holds an old-style UK ATPL.

[PC7anyone?]

Hi,
would appreciate any feedback you get from the CAA. I'm in a similar situation, except with longer to serve. My Lisence runs out (?) soon so I need to renew it but can I do that without a valid medical or IR (both impossible for me to get as I'm in Brunei) ? I did once read a letter stating that if you kept your military IR up to date that constituted the same as a civvy renewal, but that was pre JAA I assume. Just can't bear the thought of 10 hrs heads in the books !!!!!

[BEagle]

The CAA will probably ask you whether you've read LASORS.....

G5.1 LICENCE RE-ISSUE
For a licence to be valid, a pilot must hold a current
medical certificate appropriate to the licence held, and
have a valid aircraft rating. Applicants may apply for the
re-issue of a licence within a period of 60 days prior to
the expiry date of the licence.

Holders of a lifetime UK PPL should note that the
licence itself is un-expiring, but the privileges conferred
by it, and by any ratings in it, may only be exercised
when the licence and the appropriate ratings are valid.
Re-validation or renewal of the appropriate rating(s) is
specified in Section F. Details to revalidate or renew a
FRTOL (if held) are specified in Section B.

A UK National or JAR-FCL Pilot’s Licence will be
re-issued for a further period (5 or 10 year validity as
appropriate to the licence held) subject to meeting the
following:-

1. hold a medical certificate appropriate to the licence
being re-issued valid for the first day of issue of the
new licence.

2. have held a valid Certificate of Test, Certificate of
Experience or Certificate of Revalidation for any
type/class rating that has not expired by more than
5 years*.
*Applicants who are currently flying under the privileges
of a non-UK ICAO licence and are currently flying an
aircraft type endorsed within their UK or JAR-FCL
licence, may have their licence re-issued by holding a
valid medical certificate appropriate to the licence being
re-issued. A QSP in current flying practice on any
military aircraft type (aeroplane for re-issue of
aeroplane licence and helicopter re-issue of helicopter
licence) may have their licence re-issued by holding a
valid medical certificate appropriate to the licence being
re-issued.

Applicants who are not flying an aircraft endorsed
within their UK or JAR-FCL licence may not have their
licence renewed until such time as an appropriate valid
medical certificate and Certificate of revalidation are
obtained. Applicants may either renew an existing
rating within their UK or JAR-FCL licence or may wish
to transfer a type/class rating that he/she is currently
flying under the privileges of their non-UK ICAO
licence. Renewal of appropriate ratings or the transfer
of type/class ratings is specified in Section F.

[Soiled Glove]

I would be cautious about Beagle's statement that you don't need an MCC if you have an UK ATPL. Whilst he is technically correct, most airlines expect that you have an MCC when applying (unless you have time in a multipilot aircraft and no, dual checks in Tonkas don't count as multi-pilot!).

I think that you can do your IR renewal in a simulator these days and one option that I have heard about is doing the MCC and then asking if you can tag an IR renewal on at the end - this gives you time to refresh flying on a multi whilst doing the MCC and you can then get a reasonable price for the renewal simulator at the end. The guys at Leeds/Bradford were one of the names that I heard were up for the above scenario.

Basically the more qualifications/currency you can offer the better when it comes to applications - a major airline will not look at you if they have to put you through training to get the necessary 'ticks in boxes' - it is a competitive market out there if you are looking at a flag carrier airline (trust me that is the way to go!)

[charliesbar]

:hmm:

Now I am confused. From LASORs I had thought that a QSP in flying practise may have their license re-issued by holding a valid Class 1 medical (Section D9). Of course, I may well have missed something.

Also, does is matter if the IR/class rating has expired (as long as the license is valid)when joining an airline as surely the type rating/IR will bring everything in-line?

Grateful for any thoughts.

[Sandy Wings]

BEagle thanks for your good info, I have just re-newed my Class 1 medical ( with the usual £xx donation to the med ctr xmas party fund! Why don't we get a "donation" for flying pax in our fast jets?!!). I like Soiled Gloves idea of using the MCC to re-new my IR and re-newing my licence under the current QSP bit also. Beagle thanks again, what do think of my plan?
Happy Landings

[BEagle]

charliesbar:

"A QSP in current flying practice on any
military aircraft type (aeroplane for re-issue of
aeroplane licence and helicopter re-issue of helicopter
licence) may have their licence re-issued by holding a
valid medical certificate appropriate to the licence being
re-issued."

Sandy Wings:

Soiled Gloves' idea, if it's accepted by the CAA (and I have no idea whther it would or not) sounds good. But the FTO running the MCC would surely know.

Generally, it'd be up to the airline you're interested in to decide whether they would want you to have a current MEP Class Rating and IR. If it was a TriStar/VC10 etc Type Rating and multi-crew IR, then it probably would. But otherwise - hard to say. However, note the following:

RENEWAL OF AN IR(A)
The requirements to renew an IR(A) are based on the
period of time elapsed since the rating expired i.e.
calculated from the date of expiry of the most recent
IR(A) proficiency check entered in the licence.

However, where IR privileges have been exercised in
another category of aircraft (i.e. UK/JAR IR(H)) or
under the privileges of an ICAO licence (Aeroplanes
and Helicopters) or under a UK military IR qualification
(fixed-wing or rotary), the renewal requirements will be
based on the expiry date of that IR.

• To renew an IR(A) that has expired by less than 5
years, applicants must pass an IR(A) proficiency
check with an authorised examiner.

• To renew an IR(A) that has expired by more than 5
years but less than 7 years, applicants must: For
single-pilot aircraft pass an IR(A) proficiency
check in an aeroplane with a UK CAA Staff Flight
Examiner. For multi-pilot aircraft pass a type
rating skill test with or observed by a UK CAA
Flight Operations Training Inspector.

• To renew an IR(A) that has expired by more than 7
years, applicants must: For single-pilot aircraft
pass an IR(A) skill test in an aeroplane with a UK
CAA Staff Flight Examiner. For multi-pilot
aircraft pass a type rating skill test with or
observed by a UK CAA Flight Operations Training
Inspector. Applicants will also be required to
retake the IR(A) theoretical knowledge
examinations.