Fast jet pilot. How to get to be one.

[99nasha]

Im 16 and currently doing my AS levels. I want to fly when Im older. There has never been anything else I have wanted to do.

But recently I have come across that becoming a fast jet pilot in the RAF is an incredibly difficult task.

Minor problem is that ive never been that bright. And managed to get a "D" in maths (which im retaking)

I have started flying in my local club and desperatlely want a chance of becoming an officer.

If anybody could give me some strong pointers I would be massively greatful .

Thanks

Andrew Nash

[semisonic]

um yeah..good to see you have ambition..always shows through.

You need good grades..not boffin level..those guys go on to be scientists and the like..pilots need to have a quality grades can't represent!

Do a-levels, go to a uni, join an air squadron and get in that way. you still have to apply to OASC (officer & aircrew selection centre) but you can already have done your basic flying training and be ahead of other applicants by having had experience of the RAF and knowing whether it really is for you!

Apart from that keep a busy life..sports, activities, charity work..these all look good and develop character, which is what the RAF look for more than anything else. They are recruiting officers firstly, pilot second!!

[99nasha]

Does it really matter to go to university? I dont think its for me. I thought that the time could be spent on flying and further experience...

[BigGrecian]

To counter what semisonic has said - there is a big push to get aircrew to join up at 18, straight after school. It means the RAF get more productive service out of you, and it helps lower the average age of aircrew on the front line.

(Pprune will always give varied opinions!)

Why waste time building more flying experience which the RAF won't be interested in, go and see a AFCO (Armed Forces Career Office) and look at Pilot Sponsorship. You could be on a December IOT after just leaving school in July that way. I know lots of pople who were 18 who did the same and are further down the training line now!

[airborne_artist]

Your time might be better spent working on your officer potential, rather than your flying skills.

Things like Duke of Edinburgh's award will do much more for your potential at OASC than flipping burgers for hours and then pouring that into a really quite small number of flying hours, which won't improve your technical aptitude much, if at all. Check out your local air cadets if you havn't already done so, as the opportunity for visits (and to do D of E) will increase your knowledge of the RAF, and with a bit of effort you'll get to see things that you'd never do at a flying club.

You'll also get the chance to take up gliding, which probably will do more for your basic flying skills than a light single.

[Lou Scannon]

Permit an old retired pilot a comment:

Don't worry about not being too (academically) bright. You want to fly the aircraft not design them.

But the RAF have always had minimum academic requirements and only rarely allow someone without them to slip in under the wire. Somehow, if you really do want to be an RAF pilot, you will have to achieve the passes that they require.

It's called determination.

So get stuck in and the best of luck. (and before you fill in the application forms-do brush up on your spelling!):ok:

[joe2812]

Try using the 'Search' option on the forum and put in some things to see what else has been mentioned.

Going through my previous posts will show the threads i've started and participated in, as i'm much in the same boat as yourself.

Try a number of things such as 'OASC' (always a popular topic for us wannabes), but the advice given so far is exactly what you need to know.

And so long as you can get 2 A-Levels and 5 GCSEs you'll be considered (although you'll need to do ALOT better than that and preferably have Maths and perhaps Physics).

Think also about what you'll do if you don't get Pilot. I'm sorry to wee on your bonfire but theres a high chance of not making the grade, me and you both matey. What then? Nav? EngO? Whatever your back-up plan, make sure you have the right grades in the right subjects so you can do them if it all goes down the pan.

I have it on good authority it's well worth the effort... so slog it out! Also, if you're struggling with Maths, have you considered a home tutor? I had one for a few months on GCSE Physics as i'd missed so much of the course and it did wonders for my grade!

Anyway, best of luck!

[shnev]

Hi mate, I'm in your boat having that burning desire to command the fast jet. I'm in Australia but I'm sure recruitment would run on some of the same principles. I've been to recruitment twice and got turned down both times - you will need to do aptitude and psych testing, start working on this with practise books. You will very rarely find they will advance you in the recruitment process after your first shot, so keep persisting.

I was once drinking in a great bar in Adelaide once and came across a RAAF pilot (Orions) who told me to not stop 'bugging' them between the ages of 19 - 29. I'm a fully civilian qualified pilot so thats what I'll be doing in the meantime while bugging them - do anything that shows enthusiasm and a personality with zest. Be physically fit. I've asked many Airforce pilots 'do you need brains to fly these things', and they've all come back with things like - 'If we had brains we wouldn't be flying planes - we'd be in a lab filling test tubes with special scientific liquids'.

For now I guess concentrate on your school grades :)

[BEagle]

Despite all the huggy-fluffy rules and regulations, political correctness, "I hear what you say" and other contemporary bull$hit, there is nothing, repeat NOTHING in the aviation world quite like rotting along at 420 KIAS and 250-ish feet in a single set jeat on a fine day when all the poor people are commuting to their mind-numbingly boring 9-to-5 drudgery!

But it's a long and winding road. Do it..DO IT..DO IT whilst you can. Or forever wonder what it might be like.........

Get focused NOW! If it means doing some extra maths, DO IT! And most definitely get yourself into gliding. Basic stick-and-rudder skills, working within a team - both will give you a sound aeronautical education!

The very best of luck - let us know when you get your Wings!

[The mother alligator]

Hi there,

I was in your situation only a couple of years ago. The best way, at the moment (in my opinion) to get into the RAF as a pilot is to apply for a bursary, but tell them that you will accept a Direct Entrant (DE) slot if offered one. If you do not get in after A-levels, and don't plan to go to uni, you will lose out to people your age who go off and do a decent degree, and complete EFT at a UAS (which happens to be the best pi$$ up club in the world!). I eventually decided on uni, and have just sent off my account details for my bursary!

As for the grades, you need C's, that's the magic letter. Nothing more, but certainly nothing less. Just work hard, and you'll pull through, I promise.

All the above advice is spot on, if you follow it, you will have a good chance.

PM me if you need any more help.

TMA

[Slow-Rider]

The advice on here is excellent. It's down to your determination you must keep in mind your goal.

It is possible to improve through hard work, I know first hand. A point on the maths though, current teaching of maths is not of much use in the air so it would be advantagous to practice mental arithmitic.

Grades are important but your extra curricular activities can make all the difference at OASC so find something you enjoy doing and get involved.

[99nasha]

Ive been in cadets for three years and getting into fitness. What ever I do in future life it will have to be flying. I won't be able to anything else without going mental. But after visting my mothers in marham and watching those tornado's scream up into the sky I realised that I have to do that. All though im sure I will have some aspect of fun flying in civilian life I dont think anything in the world will able to beat being a fast jet pilot.

Though getting a "D" in maths im not that bad. I got a "B" in science and english and above "C" in all my other subjects. So may be I will be in with some chance of being some kind of pilot when im older...

Thanks for your advice

A nash

[joe2812]

99nasha - as you're now sitting your AS's (which are in the next few weeks, so get off PPRuNe and hit the books!), i'd suggest getting down to the nearest AFCO for the first 'informal' chat.

Talk through with someone 'in the know' about your options, what to do if it doesn't work out, what OASC look for etc etc. If you're not planning on going to Uni then you will have youth on your side come selection, however others will have maturity and perhaps education - weigh it up!

I just went for a bursary and failed to get it... they indicated it was due to a duff AS grade at physics only being a D. I'm off for a debrief later in the year to find out the exact reasons, but if you do choose Uni, don't assume you'll get paid to go, it's very tough! Saying that, there's always the UAS!

Slow-Rider has it bang on, i'm doing A2 maths at the moment and it has no relevance in my opinion to flying, all you need is mental arithmitic!

If you haven't done so, search the forum for 'OASC' and you'll have all the info you need to put yourself in good stead.

[Jucky]

As somebody who was in your shoes not so many years ago, who has gone through flying training and been an ACLO, I have seen the process from all sides of the fence. The advice on this thread is all good. Determination is the key, you must be absolutely 100 % committed if you are serious about becoming a military pilot.
Don't worry about gaining flying experience too much as the military like to teach, it's way. Believe me, I had over 350 hours of PPL time under my belt when started EFT and it didn't really help or hinder me. Flying training is a great leveller.
Do concentrate on your academics aim for the best possible you can achieve, if this means getting a maths tutor, do it!
Do concentrate on extra-curricular actives, team sports, Air Training Corps, DoE etc.
Do keep up to date with current affairs combined with a good knowlege of geography find out what is going on in the world and where these places are and how the might affect Britain and it's Armed Forces. (You might find yourself being deployed there someday)
Do have a good knowledge of the service you are applying for find out about the platforms they use what weapons systems these platforms employ and the various roles these platforms may have. Also where they are based both in the UK and abroad.
Trying to balance academics against extra-curricular means yoy will have to manage your time carefully, this is a very important Officer skill. All too often I have interviewed straight A students who don't really have any hobbies or sport, so they aren't really much use, and other people who participate in loads of sports and activities but neglect their academics. A good sign of Officer potential is somebody who can balance both.
Do contact your local AFCO as soon as possible and get yourself an interview, this way if you have weak areas the Liason Officer will be able to identify them and give you advice on how to improve on them. Better do it sooner rather than later.
Do look at the Fleet Air Arm as well they are recruiting a lot more pilots next year. However the Fast Jet standard in the Navy is extremely high and you are more like to become a helicopter pilot. That said you do have opportunties in the Navy to cross over from rotary to fixed wing, and lot of RN FW pilots flew RW before crossing over.
If you like what you see do apply to both services at the same time, it shows that you are really serious about becoming a military aviator, and if nothing else all the interviews will be good practice.
Do aim to join after you have completed A-levels as we need younger pilots on the front line. However the recruiters may decide you do not have the maturity to join at this stage and may suggest you would be better suited to going to University. If this happens pick a degree that you know you will enjoy and pass well, i.e. if your not good at maths don't do engineering! If you decide you want to join after your A-levels fill out UCAS forms anyway as a back up plan. Pick Unviersities that have a UAUS/OTC/URNU.

Hope you find this advive useful if you have any questions please feel free to PM me.

Best of Luck!

Jucky
:ok:

[chromate]

Despite all the huggy-fluffy rules and regulations, political correctness, "I hear what you say" and other contemporary bull$hit, there is nothing, repeat NOTHING in the aviation world quite like rotting along at 420 KIAS and 250-ish feet in a single set jeat on a fine day when all the poor people are commuting to their mind-numbingly boring 9-to-5 drudgery!

Oh how I just bitterly hate posts like this! The reason being - I'm one of those people that left it too late. :{

Do everything you can and as early as possible, 99nasha. Let nothing stand in your path.

Oh, and do give gliding a go. It's magical!

Good luck!

[TheNightOwl]

chromate - I feel as you wrt BEagle's post, just for different reasons! I loathe the supercilious attitude implicit in his post, it never, ever, seems to occur to his ilk that there are those of us who have spent a working life in aviation WITHOUT feeling we were one of the "...poor people commuting to their mind-numbingly boring 9 - 5 drudgery".
I had 22 years in the RAF, followed by another 20 in the airlines, never wishing to be "...rotting along at 420KIAS...", I thoroughly enjoyed my job in the field of Flight Simulator maintenance. Whilst I can understand the enjoyment he, and others, feel/felt, it does NOT automatically follow that work satisfaction is not to be found elsewhere, and the notion that we are somehow lesser beings because of it I find arrogant, demeaning and downright offensive.
However, I don't suppose my objection will weigh at all in the balance of the mind of one so lofty in ambition and achievement.

Kind regards,

TheNightOwl.:ok:

[BEagle]

The role of an air force is to fly and fight
The role of those who don't is to supprt those who do

Stable extrovertism and a level of arrogance to be the best = normal FJ traits.

Thanks for fixing the box though.

[johnfairr]

Beags,

Very succinctly put. 'Tis a pity that the ethos is being subverted by, amongst others, the meeja and the nanny state.

:ok:

[Hummingfrog]

Beags

I must take issue with you, as what you describe is probably the second best flying experience.

There is nothing to beat flying around Germany at 50ft and 110 kts in the old Wessex 2 looking up at the FJs milling around at 250ftish.:D

I have had the odd trip in a Phantom and Harrier, and while impressive you can see for miles at 250ft whereas at 50ft your horizon is the next treeline, and your impression of speed is far greater. You are also your own boss having been given a task which you have to sort out.

Helicopter pilots are also never grateful to FJ pilots whereas I have had a few FJ pilots thank me profusely, and even buy a beer, after I have appeared overhead their dinghy in the mighty Seaking 3.

HF;)

[teeteringhead]

There is nothing to beat flying around Germany at 50ft and 110 kts in the old Wessex Aaaaah Wessex ....

...accurately decribed as like flying a council house from the upstairs lavatory!:ok:

And why exactly were you so high, Hummingfrog ???;)

[teeteringhead]

There is nothing to beat flying around Germany at 50ft and 110 kts in the old Wessex Aaaaah Wessex ....

...accurately described as like flying a council house from the upstairs lavatory!:ok:

And why exactly were you so high, Hummingfrog ???;)

[BEagle]

OK then, 420KIAS at 250ft, then full a/b and up to where the air is rare and the blunties never go...

Why do 110 KIAS at 50 ft when you can do 150 on the autobahn in any case?

But either has got to be better than being some ground pounder - and you can always be a civvie people-tube driver when you get tired of life!

[Hummingfrog]

Hi BEagle old boy;)

But when you have roared up to FL very high once why do it again?:p

There are several things you could do in Walter that a FJ couldn't do!!

1. Park old Walter outside a gueststatte (sp?) and have one's lunch on the patio.

2. Recce the ski areas around BAD Kohlgrub in the morning, while moutain flying, then ski the best looking in the afternoon.

3. Relax around the roaring fire that your crewman has built, on a winter survival course, while watching 2 Harrier pilot's try to light their fire. Then being winched into Walter to be restocked with goodies by the other crew. ( we did give the Harrier pilots a flaming log to get their fire going)

4. Dropped off in your Dad's back garden after a stint in N Ireland. Wish he had put a film in his camera :D

5. Do beach recces to wave to admiring females;)

Need I go on

HF

PS we used autobahn signs as navigational aids.

(TTHead I used 50ft purely for legal reasons;) )

[BEagle]

Certainly concede those bits of fun to you!

But one of my best memories was spotting a boxhead F-104 schneebling in towards the aerodrome. Plummet down at 550KIAS and sit on the bugger's arse across the top of the local towns with the acq Sw round growling happily away....

Hope you enjoyed the Gaststatte - personally I prefered the Royal Hawaiian on Waikiki Beach.

[TIMTS]

How Fast Can You Fly Backward? Or Why Helicopter Pilots are Superior

This has been a serious debate for quite some time with battle lines well drawn and the debate field hot, furious, and emotional. Obviously, the heat of the debate and the surety of the participants are directly proportional to the amount of liquid intelligence that has been consumed. Nevertheless, this humble observer will present the evidence that clearly proves helicopter pilots are, as a matter of fact, the most superior pilots in the aviation community.

First, let's talk about the numbers. Airplanes have a lot of numbers, V1, V2, VTOSS, MMO, the figures many civilian helicopter operations emulate. However, while helicopter pilots try to operate "by the numbers", the operating environment often precludes such a luxury. The 757 pilot is, "going to come over the fence at Vref+15k" or some other such number like that. Meanwhile, the helicopter lands on a rig, perhaps with a 30 knot head wind, a 15 knot crosswind, or maybe he has to land in a remote area with no wind... and he will LAND AT 0 KNOTS GROUNDSPEED! If you know anything about aerodynamics, I shouldn't have to say anything else - the safety of the numbers does not always grace the helicopter pilot therefore, they need special skill to compensate when the numbers are not even applicable. The rotorhead may be landing at 40 knots IAS or 0 knots... airplane safety margins are all off!

Not convinced, let's talk operating environment. It would be nice to be able to land on a flat piece of paved real estate that was 200 feet wide and 8000 feet long, for every landing; but for helicopter pilots, that's the exception rather than the rule (We are even told to "avoid the flow" of the starch wingers lest we upset their "numbers.")

Helicopter pilots are called to land on small offshore platforms, smaller shipboard platforms (that can be bobbing and weaving like Mike Tyson), rooftops, forests, jungles, and next to highways at night to pick up the injured. This is a VFR (Visual Flight Rules) operation that would make most airplane pilots cringe. This goes beyond those fixed wingers who call themselves "bush pilots." Helicopter pilots are the true Bush Pilots - they land and takeoff in the midst of the bushes!

To this, the helicopter pilot adds all the stuff the corporate or 121 operator does. They operate in dense airspace, fly instrument approaches, operate at busy airports, and fly in severe weather - often without the help of a four-axis autopilot with "autotrim." (In fact, the only autopilot may be control friction... and any objective dual-rated pilots will confess the helicopter is quite a bit more difficult to fly on the gauges!)

At this point I have to interject for the prima Donna part 91 operators in their Citation X's, Gulfstreams, and Falcon 50's. Yes Veronica, there are a lot of helicopters with color radar, multiple MFDs, EFIS, digital fuel controls, 4 axis autopilots, and all the other goodies, so don't go there! We can operate your fancy equipment as well!

I'm not done - what about workload? The helicopter pilot is normally the "company man" on the job. Therefore, they must not only be able to fly the aircraft, they have to be the local PR man with the customer, often solving the customer's problems so the aircraft is used the most efficiently. The helicopter pilot might have to arrange for his own fuel and even refuel his own aircraft. He checks the landing sites, trains people how to work around helicopters without getting injured, and makes sure the aircraft does not disturb Grandma Bessie's chickens!

But wait, like the Ginsu knife, "there's more!" The rotor-head does it all. He does all the pre-flight planning, submits the flight plan, prepares all the paperwork including the weight and balance, loads and briefs the passengers, loads cargo, and after landing takes care of the unloading and finally arranges for their own transportation and room. This is often interspersed by telephone calls to some company weenie that changes plans and expectations every hour.

Finally, the all important question, "What about control touch?" I want to shut up all the hotshot fighter pilots. I've been in their aircraft and they have been in mine... I could fly theirs but they were all over the sky in mine! So then, Mr Starch Winger; when you see a Hughes 500 or Bell 206 pilot hold one skid on a 5000' knife edge ridge that is only two feet wide so passengers can step out onto the ridge, while the other skid is suspended in space... when you watch a Skycrane, Vertol, S61, 212, or 214B pilot place a hook, that's on a cable 200 feet below the aircraft, in the hand of a ground crewman... when you see a Lama, AStar, or Bell 206L land in a space in the trees that's scarcely bigger than the helicopter... and if you ever watch a BK 117, 105, or A109 pilot land in a vacant lot next to a busy freeway surrounded by power lines -at night... Well then, you'll have some idea who is the master manipulator of aviation equipment.

The bottom line is; if all you want is to get into the air, find a Cessna, Beech, F-16, or 757. However, if you want to truly fly, to be an artisan in aviation and develop a bird-like control touch; then, you want to be a helicopter pilot. After all, a rock would probably fly if you made it go 180 knots. The real question for our fixed wing brethren should be, "How fast can you fly backward?"



In conlusion...FJ pilots...I laugh in your general direction...Timts:cool: :cool:

[caspertheghost]

But helicopters don't really fly......

[TIMTS]

But helicopters don't really fly......

Aahh..the meek argument of the ones that does not know any better.
May you one day be enlightened, and see the wrongs of your ways...

[Wingswinger]

Back to the thread:

99nasha,

From a KOS who had a great time flying Hunters, Harriers and Tornados before he became a boring airline pilot - if you don't get in when you apply, don't give up. It took me two attempts and some people took a few more. Be determined and persist.

[TheNightOwl]

Herr BEagle - you seem to suffer from the same misconception as other FJ aircrew I encountered, viz. my support was at a personal level and, in some obscure way, an expression of admiration or some other form of ego massage. It was not! My support, and I speak in the collective, was for the FJ weapon-delivery platform you drove, at whatever level - I gave little thought to the person at the controls, even if I knew him. He was in uniform, doing his job as I did mine, each to the best of our ability, nothing more. My concern was that, when you hit the AB buttons and rotated in a vertical pull-up, the kit didn't fail you at an embarrassing moment; not always the case, I hasten to add!

As for "stable extrovertism" - a quality possessed in abundance, as witnessed by the all-too-frequent funerals I was forced to attend as a result of said extrovertism!

"a level of arrogance to be the best" - again I agree, we/you are/were the best, without doubt; it is a pity that the arrogance, at times, cannot be contained in the cockpit, but has to spill over into workaday life.

Kind regards,

TheNightOwl.:ok:

[caspertheghost]

TIMTS,

Tried it a few times actually, and quite good fun it was too! Wouldn't like to do it for a living though, too many whirly bits going round in the wrong direction!
Fly safe, Casper;)

[TIMTS]

Caspar.

Glad you tried it..maybe you are not so wrong after all!! ;) :D

Anyways, whatever you fly, at whatever height or direction...it beats walking!

Timts

PS...sometimes..only somtimes...I secretly wish that my vne could at least be on par with your stall speed..but alas..it is not to be...:(

[Time Flies]

TIMTS

develop a bird-like control touch

I think you summed it up yourself!

TF

[mscar]

99Nasha,
Hows it going?Just a few notes and advice I thought worthy to mention from my own experience.Sometime last year I went through the grinder at OASC and in the end I was asked to finish my degree and get back to them when I graduate.
One of the many things I noted from the OASC experience is that the RAF certainly do not want solitary scientists to fly their aircraft.
The RAF would more prefer amiable,mature,pragmatic people that have common sense,direction and a history to be able to achieve their academic goals whatever they may be.
From my experience one should not completely throw away the idea of a degree or qualification away before RAF application either.I'm not implying that you MUST do a degree but the process of completing a degree or apprenticeship is mostly a benficial experience.Most third level education and apprenticeship environments provide many oppurtunities for you to develop your maturity,character,study and leadership skills which is what the RAF want in their officers!
Furthermore, alternate qualification gives you just that extra bit of security for the future.A RAF University Bursary is a great way to set yourself up for a career with the RAFin my opinion.
I wouldn't dismiss your ability on the current state of your maths either.I myself got a D half way through second level education yet with determination got that up to a high B grade in my finals and now I'm doing aerospace engineering.As importantly mentioned earlier determination is all you need and can help you achieve absolutely anything as long as you are prepared to do the work.
The biggest bit of advice I can give you is to start now.You are at the perfect time to get started.Take up team activities , develop your knowledge of current affairs,stay fit and keep the head in the books!

Mark