Aircraft incident at Brampton Island

[natbanger]

A Piper Aztec from Mackay ran off the runway at Brampton Island yesterday, ending up severely bogged and about a foot from going over the edge of the strip onto the beach.

Eyewitnesses on Brampton watched the aircraft land with 10knots of downwind on an already shortened strip, landing very long and fast.

The pilot allegedly claimed her brakes failed, however after being towed out of the bog she flew back to Mackay without the aircraft being checked by an engineer for the 'apparent brake failure'.

On arrival in Mackay she was met by CASA airworthiness, subsequent inspection showed no faults with the braking system.
This is at least the fourth such incident for this Mackay operator and it’s principals.

The same pilot and operator previously wrote off a Cherokee at Keswick Island, an Auster on the beach in Mackay and gutsed a Baron in Townsville.

The same operator was also the first one to violate the new airspace on the first day of introduction.

I guess having an ex CASA FOI from the local office as a business partner appears to make them exempt from the same minute scrutiny that other NQ operators are forced to tolerate!

Surely CASA should look hard and deep into this operation, or is there an element of “protection” involved? :yuk:

[Torres]

I can't believe there would be any conflicts of interest, incompetence, impropriatory or corruption with CASA staff in FNQ!

It's all a FNQ myth about CASA staff family flying overloaded, FOI having an interest in a local operator, FOI running short of fuel in a C310, and victimisation of certain operators who are perceived not to toe the line.

:E

[practice]

just wondering how someone from CASA allegedly got to MK so quick from TL? Methinks thats a crock...

[Capt Fathom]

just wondering how someone from CASA allegedly got to MK so quick from TL
How do you know they weren't already there? :E

[practice]

i know they weren't there, and natbanger(he wishes) is full of it...

[tipsy]

Torres, just like there could not be anything to do with seat belts either;)

tipsy

[Maximus B]

Pretty defamatory stuff Natbanger.

Wouldn't be a neighbour would you ;)

Now this is the edit.

A quick look at the BOM site, backed up by AIMS sensors on the reef indicate the '10 kt tailwind' is an absolute fabrication!!!!

At best a 5 kt X-wind, bumpy past the hill, but that is all.

'Ran off the runway end while landing long' also seems to be a complete fabrication. A RELIABLE eyewitness states 'the aircraft was turning round and one wheel went off the runway' (not necessarily off the end).

I could go on, but I would have expected Torres to be a little more learned. After all, the most unfortunate part of our industry is MARGINAL OPERATORS having a go at sucessful ones ON THE SAME AIRPORT through an incompetent regulator and via backstabbing, bullsh!t and rumour.

And as for '"number" of incidents", pot this is kettle...out!!!!

Pull yer head in natbanger.

Max

[Mainframe]

Maximus B

If there is any verifiable evidence of the Townsville Office not being totally above board, nor a model litigant, then no, it is not defammatory, but possibly inflammatory.

There are a number of myths that warrant exposing or putting to bed with this office, the astute historian would naturally agree.

That this office may have established a unique culture is possibly just another myth.

You would be well advised to look below the surface and find out what is mythical, legendary, commendable or otherwise about this office.

You may well be surprised at what diligent research may uncover.

That this office could cleanly endure an independant inquiry or Royal Commission may be worth thinking about.

That would certainly clear their slate and establish them as the fairest and most impartial office in CASA.

It is ridiculous to suggest that there may be any thing untoward in the conduct of this office, surely it stands on it's unblemished record of fairness and impartiality.

Just ask any operator under their jurisdiction, they will assure you that all is well.

[Maximus B]

Mainframe

I personally think the Townsville Office (and its norther subsidiary) are a BIG problem.

We can see the circumstantial evidence in the number of operators thrown out of business for what amounts, in my view, to little more than personality clashes. yes Tvl and Cns CASA need a thorough reaming.

However this DOES NOT excuse natbanger's defamatory posting against a competitor. It is unfortunate that those who can't run a sucessful aviation business, use rumour and the evil regulator to 'level the playing field' and it is incumbent upon all of us to pour scorn on these losers until they stop it, roll over and die.

Max

[10000]

I suspect the point being made is the differing standards applied by the CASA FNQ office. For example, in three recent cases of alleged aircraft being bogged:
[list=1]
An aircraft with a politician on board was bogged late October at a Cape York airstrip when the pilot taxied outside the cone markers. No CASA action.

An aircraft was bogged at another remote Cape York airstrip, after receiving a satisfactory strip report. Incident contributed to suspension of RPT AOC.

Incident of aircraft being bogged at Brampton following alleged brake failure. Aircraft departed without LAME check. Appears no CASA action.
[/list=1]

Getting bogged at a remote, unsealed airstrip, in tropical northern Australia during the wet season would not appear to be a particularly onerous “crime”. Departing after an alleged brake failure, without a LAME check (I wonder what was entered on the MR?) should warrant the fullest investigation.

The inconsistent standards in these “incidents” applied by CASA in FNQ (over a number of years) should be a point of grave concern.

[Woomera]

Maximus

I appreciate your concern, however you will note the post by natbanger which initiated this thread contains:

[Last edited by Woomera on 17th December 2004 at 13:01]

I removed the thread at the time, as originally published and made certain amendments after obtaining advice. I am now satisfied the amended original post by natbanger complies with the posting rules of PPRuNe and is of interest to other PPRuNe users and viewers.

My action as a Moderator was required due solely to certain allegations in the original post. I am now satisfied the amended post complies with our posting rules.

I make no judgement or comment on the veracity or accuracy of the post content.

Woomera

[Torres]

Max, if I read your post correctly, the following two statements appear to be contradictory:

I could go on, but I would have expected Torres to be a little more learned. After all, the most unfortunate part of our industry is MARGINAL OPERATORS having a go at sucessful ones ON THE SAME AIRPORT through an incompetent regulator and via backstabbing, bullsh!t and rumour.

and

We can see the circumstantial evidence in the number of operators thrown out of business for what amounts, in my view, to little more than personality clashes. yes Tvl and Cns CASA need a thorough reaming.

I think you’re trying to “play the person” rather than “playing the ball”?

I believe the allegations I made above to be accurate, if a tad flippant!

I really have no interest – there is a better life after aviation – both for me and the CASA FNQ staff!!! :ok:

[Maximus B]

Torres

I did not mean to imply that any operation you were part of was marginal in any way, if my disjointed paragraphs suggested that I am sorry.

Rather I meant to imply that you, of all people, would know very well the implication of unchecked rumour used to stifle competition because you have been a victim of it.

As for CASA Tvl, go for it, they are in my view compromised and need a thorough overhaul.

Max

[dogcharlietree]

Cplane, do you know where the infamous BJ is now?

[Captain Starlight]

Maximus B

Rumour has it that the Townsville office does have problems and that Bruce Byron and John Anderson are aware of the problems and the offenders.

A Royal Commission into this Office and CASA generally in how they conduct their role in putting operators out of business at their whim would indeed prove interesting.
( Ord Air Charter, Yanda Airlines, UZU Airlines, Whyalla Airlines, Sea View Airlines, Kackeroo Aviation, Ansett Airlines , Schutt Aviation and others too numerous to mention, additionally the malicious and vindictive attempts on Midstate, Cape York and others still happening?)

However, such is wishful thinking.

However, the industry at large do communicate with each other and there are serious concerns with the Townsville office and it's conduct towards industry.

There is a new manager installed by Byron, but he will be meet the same fate as his predecessors and be shafted from below.

Unless of course he is particularly astute and if Byron has empowered him to fix the problems.

At least the industry has seen some fairness displayed by this office, rumour has it that three of it's own staff were bastardised just as severely by the offender just as have some selected operators been bastardised by the offender.

An allegedly "independant" report has been concluded, guess what the outcome was ? sorry, no prizes.


Then again, maybe all this is myth and rumour.

[Torres]

Max. In my 30 plus successful, challenging, very rewarding and mostly very enjoyable years in the aviation industry in the Pacific, Asia and Australia, it was always the same, everywhere - rumour and innuendo used in an attempt to destroy competition. Your comments don’t offend me in the least; I've had competing operators dump cr@p on me by the truck load - it's all water off a duck’s back! :E

I've taken advice and direction from the regulator’s competent professional employees to the betterment of the operation I managed at that time. I've also taken on the regulator’s vindictive and incompetent employees and won, on more than one occasion.

I do not have any knowledge of the incident posted by natbanger, however natbanger appears to have first hand evidence of possible collusion or corruption and on the balance of probabilities – and my knowledge of CASA FNQ office culture – is more than likely correct. The CASA system and culture protects and promotes the less competent CASA staff, whilst generally demoralising and isolating the competent and skilled CASA professional employee. If I’m reading the current CASA picture correctly, the Group Captain’s Club is being revived within CASA and will protect it’s members.

“Stress leave” seems to be endemic in CASA FNQ staff. I recall on one occasion a reply to my very detailed response to a ludicrous, flawed and vindictive Show Cause was delayed as one of the FOI’s was on “stress leave” – although I was able to locate him painting his block of units. I now find two CASA Townsville FOI’s are on “stress leave”. There have been a number of other incidents of “stress leave” being granted to CASA FNQ staff. If a CASA FOI is unfit for work due to stress, I suspect he/she is medically unfit to hold a commercial pilots license, thus medically unfit for employment as an FOI.

I suspect if a private sector commercial pilot were required to take “stress leave” his license medical may well be suspended and difficult to restore, however I remember one CASA FNQ FOI who flew commercially whilst on stress leave.

There is no accountability in CASA generally, nor can one expect any changes in the Townsville or Cairns office vindictive and discriminatory culture and credibility whilst the present manager remains.

[Mainframe]

10000

I think you may have hit the nail on the head with the observation that there appears to be inconsistency in the level of regulatory and enforcement action exercised by this office.

Two operators under this office have occasioned multiple passenger fatalities and appear to be having a rails run.

Two other operators who not only haven't killed any passengers but who have long records of safe operation have been under seige for prolonged periods and subject to harassment, vindictiveness, maliciousness, obstructionism and every form of commercial harm that these public salaried incompetents can think up.

No, the concept of a level playing field is alien to these malevolents.

There must be an inquiry, and not by the usual "independant" known as "The Whitewash", who just happens to be associated with one of CASA's contracted legal teams.

If Byron is really serious about "Natural Justice", "Fair and Impartial Treatment", "Innocent until Proven Guilty" and such other rhetoric as is released, he could do no better than start with the Townsville Office.

That there is a rogue element in CASA is an established fact.

The names are known by the industry, the names are known within CASA, but until they are brought into line, or preferably sent off as parking policemen to the Sydney CBD, Byron cannot achieve reform.

Byron has started the culling process, having recently sacked one of the known rogue element at the top.

There are still more hiding in Canberra, protecting the ones in area offices.

Townsville is a known rogue office, as is Archerfield.

A recent post to this thread suggested that the description of Townsville misconduct fitted YMMB, are there more rogue offices out there?

If you know of a rogue office, please name it on this thread, but under no circumstances should you name the offenders.

The eventual inquiry will find out all the necessary details.

Byron's sackings must continue downward until he cleans out the maggots sufficiently for them to understand that their behaviour is embarrassing to CASA.

[Captain Starlight]

TORRES

You are right about Stress leave. This public service perk is not really applicable to CASA FOI's.

A few points here.

If you are on stress leave, you have a medical condition that precludes you from flying.

If you have a medical condition that precludes you from flying for more than seven days, you must notify the Director of Aviation Medicine.

If you have a repetitive history of this medical problem, your licence maybe should be suspended as you have in fact a chronic medical problem.

That this problem is psychiatric in nature raises serious concerns regarding whether or not you are a fit and proper person to exercise the priviledge of a licence or to continue to hold one.

The inability to effectively deal with stress should be cause to not hold a CPL or higher licence.

An engine failure in heavy weather can be stressfull.

But the pilot can't handle stress ! ?

Would a search of Aviation Medicine reveal a pattern of compliance by CASA FOI's chronically taking Stress leave, or have they simply forgotten to inform Aviation Medicine?

Will enforcement action result from their managers for this breach?

Sorry, it's "Do as I say, not do as I do!".

[Torres]

I am aware of at least one instance of a CASA FOI who flew a twin engine aircraft, commercially, whilst on extended stress leave.

I'm sure there are probably other instances considering how common "stress leave" appears to be within CASA ranks.

[Captain Starlight]

TORRES

Ok, but the point I raised was that more than 7 days it is a notifiable condition.

Are CASA FOI's consistently breaching the regulations in not notifying Aviation Medicine?

If they have breached, who is going to initiate regulatory and enforcement action with regard to the offender?

Likewise, flying with a known medical condition is an offence under Section 20 and reckless operation of an aircraft.

Nothing will change whilst the lunatics are running the Asylum.

[natbanger]

Maximus and practise

I am sorry if you have somehow taken offence to the simple truth being reported.
Your quote 'one wheel came off the runway when turning around' doesn't quite add up. How then would you explain the 40 odd metres of three deep trenches left in the sand, or the trail of destruction of the gable markers? Or maybe the sight of the aircraft on an unusual attitude prior to having to be towed out?
FYI the area forcast was 340/10. This might help you comprehend why the other operators were all using runway 14 rather than 32.
Practise. - FYI CASA airworthiness were already in Mackay on other tasks that day. The 40 odd other people that saw and spoke to CASA would confirm that CASA met the aircraft on arrival back in Mackay after it flew all the way back with the gear down and no notation on the M/R for the 'apparant brake failure'.

For the rest.
Thanks for your posts, CASA NQAO are a big problem, they are deceiptful and just downright bullies who think that they are unaccountable.
I for one know that industry is working behind the scenes to have a bit of its own back and that 2005 will be the year of karma for the NQAO.

[Maximus B]

Natbanger

There is one enemy, CASA Tvl.

Oppps, sorry, two, snivelling, backstabbing whingers.

Where do you place yourself? you have a problem with CASA, yet you help them attack with your post (and they do).

Yes, people like those in the Tvl office are in for a wake up, but your judas like behaviour doen't help.

In my eyes you are part of the problem not part of the solution.

Max

[Binoculars]

What a fabulous thread! Looking on with completely impartial interest! :8 Perhaps something useful will finally come of it, but somehow I doubt it.

[Woomera]

Yes, indeed, Binos!

You would be amazed at the number of emails Woomera has received regarding this incident and the CASA office in far north Queensland - including emails from people who claim they are too scared to post, even anonymously.

Woomera

[natbanger]

Ok,
For all of you who are to scared to post through fear of retribution, how about do it generally so it can't be specific about you. I'll give you a start and lead with both Balls.

My challenge is that can anyone please provide any more solid cases of injustice that have been done by the above named.
I know they probably read this but really who gives a Sh_t as they really deserve to read feedback.
Cheers :D

[Maximus B]

natbanger

Then take it up with CASA or AOPA. As for your supposed BPI incident, you would give yourself and the whole industry more credence if you tried a bit of solidarity for a change.

Even if what you said were 100% true (and I have strong reason to believe it was 93% exaggeration) GA operators don't need that sort of sniping when (as you correctly point out) they have rogue CASA offices to deal with.

You got an issue with T and P I suggest you go (cap and beer in hand as an apology) and sort it with them man to man (so to speak).

Max

[CoodaShooda]

A Possibly Useful Link (http://www.comb.gov.au/complaints_investigations/online_complaints_form.htm)

[Maximus B]

CS

CASA exempt themselves from Ombudsman activity on 'safety grounds'. They make regulation without RIS because 'what they change has minimal impact'. They con the AAT with VERY expensive (but just as useless as the rest of them) lawyers and their own (in my view absolutely incompetent) legal team .. and especially recalcitrant manager.

Basically they have grown used to NO accountability.

If you have evidence, send it to AOPA or Bruce Byron personally. To send it anywhere else is a waste of time. (Especially the Minister, he is having a blonde century).

Max

[Sword of Damocles]

IF you have evidence !!

Nad-banger, if you did have balls and the purported ability to lead you would have approached T and P in the manner in which Maximus suggested.

Dont drag the rest of the NQ industry who are quite content with the regulator into your vitriole.:yuk

[Maximus B]

While I do think the industry needs to pull together I still think there is a problem with the FNQ office and have quite a bit of solid, anecdotal and circumstantial evidence.

But sometimes, some operators give me the shivers. If the NQ Dive Industry had behaved like this (especially after the Lonergan fiasco and subsequent movie) they would have been kaput.

Instead they rallied (even around the operator that allegedly stuffed up) and saved the industry.

GA could learn from that.

If you guys could keep a certain mail contract in Cns, regardless of who got it, the flow down in maintenance, parts, wages, jobs, , training, hangar rent etc etc would benefit the WHOLE FNQ aviation industry. If you all got together and got fair up the regulator, instead of snivelling and sniping (and I don't accuse you all ... just an obvious few ) then more and more contracts would stay with FNQ operators rather that going to (in some cases dodgy ... remember CoastWatch in the 80's) southern operators.

Perhaps you need a FNQ GA Assopciation or council or summit???

Max

[Desert Flower]

'Ran off the runway end while landing long' also seems to be a complete fabrication. A RELIABLE eyewitness states 'the aircraft was turning round and one wheel went off the runway' (not necessarily off the end).

Well if that's the case, why was it reported on the ATSB website (Aviation Safety - Accident & Incident Notification - Weekly Summary - Week ending 171204) as "Accident-Aircraft?"
Go have a look for yourselves at:

http://www.atsb.gov.au/aviation/summary/index.cfm

DF.

[Maximus B]

Why wouldn't it. It was a charter, it was an incident. A prudent operator would notify ATSB.

Seems then the pilot didn't 'do a runner' as natbanger implies :)

Max

[Time Bomb Ted]

Natbanger ,

You are either incredibly brave or incredibly stupid. To name a CASA legal council and an investigator of basically corruption is a very brave move. I most certainly hope you have some pretty good evidence to back up your rather "open slur" against 2 very powerful people in the Federal Government.

Good Luck. You will probably need it.

TBT

[Tail_Wheel]

All available on the public record:

ATSB Notification Log: (http://www.atsb.gov.au/aviation/summary/Week_ending_171204.pdf)
Date: 15DEC2004
Cat: 5
Aircraft: VH-ZHZ
Description: Accident – Aircraft
Location: Brampton Island

CASA Aircraft Register: (http://www.casa.gov.au/casadata/regsearch/displayreg47.asp?framein=all&manuin=&modelin=&regholdin=&regopin=&serialin=&num_results=10&VHin=ZHZ&Search=Search)
Make and type: Piper Aircraft Corp PA-23
Model: PA-23-250
Serial number: 27-3211
Aircraft first registered in Australia: 14/07/1981
Certificate of Registration holder as of 02/04/2002
MS BEATRICE JESSY MAHLBERG
PO BOX 702
MACKAY QLD 4740

Property Interest Holders: (http://www.casa.gov.au/casadata/regsearch/displayprop.asp?VHin=ZHZ&makein=Piper%20Aircraft%20Corp&modelin=PA-23)

Obviously a "notifiable occurrance" which the ATSB classify as an "accident". Did the aircraft fly back to Mackay without an inspection and possibly a Permit to Fly?

[Woomera]

OK! OK! To all who emailed Woomera - I'm putting the thread back!!!

Just needed to check that a few posts were within the PPRuNe rules. :ugh:

Woomera

[Stink Finger]

Folks,
I would really like to draw a clear line between the two topics that are being addressed here,

1> Brampton Island Incident, personally i have no opinion, and

2> CASA FNQ continued incompetence and inability to effectively conduct the job that they have been assigned.

To that end i am going to start a thread, " BB, FNQ aviation needs your help", i am sure BB, DA and AC will be reading.

For those in the industry this is a chance to vote.

[Captain Starlight]

Maximus B

Max, if you "think" there is a problem with the Townsville Office, you haven't yet been a victim of it.

It is beyond any reasonable doubt that there are serious problems with this office.

It is reasonable to assume the Minister, Anderson, is aware.

It is reasonable to assume the Director of CASA is aware.

It is reasonable to assume that the new Area Manager is aware.

It is reasonable to assume that all FNQ operators are aware.

Problem seems to be as follows;

Anderson probably expects Byron to fix it.

Byron probably expects the new area manager to fix it.

The offenders are confident that they will be protected by this avoidance of responsibility by all above them.

The offenders are the advisors for the new area manager.

If we all wait long enough, this present airing will evaporate or blow away and the misconduct can again come forth, because no one really cares enough to fix it.

[Maximus B]

Capt Starlight.

I havent been a direct victim, but i am close to people that have and do have a personal interest.

Max

[Captain Starlight]

Stinkfinger and Maximus B

Max, understand your interest, there are very few people who don't know some of the affected, and some who are relieved that while almost all the NQAO's efforts have been wasted trying to pull at least two AOC's, others have been spared due to the inability of this office to get on with it's job when almost all of it's resources are directed to sustained vendettas.

Stinky, you are simplifying and dividing the issue in trying to seperate BPI and FNQ misconduct.

This thread obviously started because of the close inter realtionship of these issues.

The thread started because of an obvious (to most) double standard displayed by the Townsville Office.

An established existing operator has been subject to extreme commercial harm, with no record of safety problems warranting the attention they received.

This led to a cancellation of an AOC and a successful (but very expensive) appeal in the AAT to re-instate the AOC.

Another newer operator on the field appears to be protected from the excesses of the Townsville office.

People notice these two sets of standards because they are obvious.

This is why the thread started, it ties together the known problems of the Townsville Office and how they choose to treat two different operators on the same field.

Seperating the two only serves to diminish the thread and protect one of the opeartors at the expense of the other.

[practice]

of course natbanger wouldn't bring it up woth AOPA... who do u think was flying the aircraft?
he'd prefer to sling crap from the sidelines rather than actually do something

[Air Ace]

Maximus.

I think the points natbanger was making - which you seem to continually overlook - were:

1. There is an allegation the aircraft ferried back to Mackay with the undercarriage down, without being inspected by a LAME and possibly without an appropriate Maintenance Release entry and Permit to Fly.

2. An allegation the operator enjoys a "preferential relationship" with CASA staff in FNQ.

3. An allegation CASA offices in FNQ have initiated vindictive and unjustified action against certain operators in the region, including fabricating evidence and illegally obtaining documents.

Each of the above points are extremely serious allegations and should be investigated immediately by an appropriate independent investigator, and not one of CASA's "lawyers for hire".

[Captain Starlight]

Air Ace

Yes, an external and "Independant" investigation is warranted.

Yes, there are indications of criminal conduct by some of the regulators / enforcers.

There is a massive amount of solid, factual evidence held by various entities that clearly establishes conduct
reminiscent of the KGB in the Cold War era or Hitler's SS of WWII.

The conduct displayed is UnAustralian, UnEthical, UnAcceptable, often Illegal and Alien to a Western Democracy.

Even the Mafia has a code of conduct, and if the miscreants end up in gaol, as they would if tried and convicted in an appropriate court,
they would soon learn, even in gaol, that criminals also have a code of conduct.

BB,
You have started some actions, but only where you personally were affected.
That was commendable and has been favourably acknowledged in the editorial of the current edition of "Australian Flying".

You now need to identify the protective buffer that insulates you from the sad realities of your field offices.

You have sacked some of them, just keep looking and you will find more.

The miscreants have no code of conduct other than indulging in the use and abuse of power.

The available evidence cannot convict them unless it is tabled in a criminal court.

Some of it has been tabled in the AAT, but here it does no more than embarrass them and expose them for what they are.

The AAT cannot convict them, nor recommend they be charged, based on that evidence, nor is it their prerogative,
they just assess the evidence to either uphold their bastardry or to overturn it.

A Royal Commission is the only way the evidence can be presented and be available for cross examination.
That it would clearly paint a picture of extreme misconduct is beyond doubt.

That evidence, having been tabled, would then be used in a criminal court to determine the punishment the miscreants have earned.

None of this will happen, it is purely academic. A Royal Commission into CASA cannot be allowed to happen.

As has been said earlier, these current issues will evaporate.

It is up to BB to set in place some mechanism to stem this abuse of power and to bring to account any offender in the future.

The current offenders, instead of properly going to gaol, will merely be counselled and advised not to get caught again.

Nothing will change, the rhetoric will still come forth.

BB, we need actions that support the words
and action that sends a clear message down through the ranks that the misconduct is to cease.

The Townsville office is not the only office flaunting this abusive behaviour, it is merely the one in the spotlight at present.

It is in the spotlight because of overwhelming disgust.

BB has initiated a policy of conciliation and co-operation, of having a cup of tea and a chat. This is a positive direction.

A great idea, but unfortunately there are a lot of FOI's who not only oppose this initiative,
but who would not be welcome in any operators office under any circumstances, let alone be party to a chat.

In Townsville, the three FOI's bastardised were among the few that industry could feel comfortable with,
and one or two others who live on the fringe of being bastardised.

Quite simply, BB, the industry, because of the actions of your rogue element,
have NO trust, confidence or respect in a significant proportion of your staff.

Trust, Confidence and Respect are earned, not assigned.

How you go about restoring that Trust , Confidence and Respect will be an interesting but not insurmountable task for you and your team.


Ultimately we all look forward to you turning the clock back a few years to an era when we could call an Area Office and discuss a problem and mutually work out a solution.

FOI's (different title then) did drop in for a cuppa, did chat, did suggest things we may have overlooked.
We were even able to have beer at the pub with them after work.

Discipline was enforced in a friendly authoritive way, there was mutual respect accorded each other.

What was so wrong with this system that it was allowed to degenerate into a constant attempt to issue RCA's (NCN's of old)?

Why now must some offices feel the need to measure the performance of their staff by the sheer quantity of RCA's issued?

From where or from whom did this mindset gestate and come forth?

Ultimately, do you want to lead a contemptable team of thugs and bullies, or a team of respected professionals?

I guess it all comes down where you see CASA going.
And I suggest that the name be changed to FAA (Federal Aviation Auithority).

Currently it stands for Civil Aviation Safety Authority.

Given that it is Civil, why the overwhelming proportion of former ADF personnel within it's ranks and why is the Civil world so under represented.

The word Safety does not currently fit with the culture. There is no interest in safety, just enforcement.
Some of the activities being pursued actually compromise safety, not support it.

Aviation and Authority still mean something and should be retained.

The Truth is out there, go find it.

[8 8th's Blue]

Captain starlight,

Hitler,SS,KGB and mafia. Hmmmmmm A little to much time sitting on grassy noles. Wake up to yourself, if its such a big dilema for you, go and visit Mr Byron yourself rather than hide behind a handle on an annonymous forum. Take a pill and calm down.

[Stink Finger]

Hitler,SS,KGB and mafia, would appear an exageration, although if you received " special treatment" from these incapables you would be a little emotional as well.

First hand, i can tell you 19 CP/Directors have complained exclusively to BB and MT before him about this problem, 5 of these have jumped a flight down to Canberra to meet with the transport minister and BB/MT. There has been a documentary made, there is presently a Web Site being built, unfortunately i've only seen once theses particular representives of CASA publicly embarassing themselves in the AAT.

The local member (WE) has been involved in just about every situation, talk to him if you want the whole picture.

These people are very vindictive.

[Captain Starlight]

8 8ths

Not sure if you're in FNQ, if you are, you are not under the evil influence of the Townsville office.
Some operators languish under interstate offices, some the Brisbane Airline office.

You can be assured that being under seige by the Townsville office for a prolonged period of time is somewhat arduous and jading,
and doesn't leave a lot of time to rest on grassy noles (did you mean holes,moles or knolls?).

Refer to Stinky's post regarding the trips to Canberra.

Byron has been visited personally, in company with the local member WE, by numerous operators, fact.

Byron was, on at least one occasion, handed volumes of solid, documented and indexed evidence. fact

Byron's reaction was to refer this confidential evidence to the accused to investigate and comment on himself! fact

The local member, whilst meaning well and willing to go into bat,
has not really got any runs on the board with regard to action
being achieved with the problems he's been asked to make representations about,
dating back as far as UZU Air.

There is a possibility that maybe he is not taken too seriously by either the minister or BB.

If you operate or fly in FNQ, and if nothing changes, you had better hope that you are not targeted.

Whether or not you are totally above board will have no bearing on the treatment you will receive.

Imagine having a policeman follow you everywhere you drive, for up to two years if necessary, determined to find fault with you.

Do you consider that there is a possibility that you may actually infringe one day,
say even a wheel just over a stop line, a speed just a kilometre over the limit, a blown light bulb that happened during such a trip.

Imagine an operator committing such a serious crime as having a dust cap missing off a tyre on his aircraft.

Imagine not having a weather forecast for a flight between two islands that can be seen in either direction from any point along the route.

Imagine a lay judge or magistrate hearing this damning evidence against you, particularly when you may have committed similar major offences.

You will be seen as a serial offender. And then treated like one.
Despite your protests of innocence, unfair etc.

Maybe then you will start to understand KGB or SS.

This is reality in FNQ, where are you, with one of the favoured operators?
or one of the un surveilled Southern based operators, or with the Brisbane Airline Office?

Do you consider, for one moment, that this conduct is mythical?

That all those operators who made all of those wasted trips to Canberra were really just wanting to see Canberra?

Maybe you have as much of a problem believing this as Byron seems to,
although he has just found out it is also happening at home and rightfully sacked some of the offenders.

Sorry 8 8ths Blue, let's hope you don't get a turn in the ring with these thugs.

There are several barristers and legal firms that will suffer a significant loss of business when Byron finally does something about the problem,
and,like you, he needs to acknowledge that there is a problem first, and then realise the magnitude of it.

[the wizard of auz]

After reading this thread, one has to wonder why these chappies are still smiling with a full set of teeth. It will only be a matter of time before a person that has been victimised, had his income/job/licence threatened or had his business comprimised by one of these alledged individuals, before one of them get a pick handle, or worse, and take matters into their own hands.
Most pilots are well rounded people, but, if you keep poking snakes with a stick, ones going to bite you eventually.
Actually, I would imagine that this would count for all offices, not just the townsville office.

[Captain Starlight]

WIZ

Yes, one has to ponder that as well. However, most operators and pilots are decent, law abiding citizens.

Rumour has it that during the harrassment of one of the affected operators, physical violence was threatened towards the offenders.

It must also be kept in mind that the Townsville office is not the only office enjoying the sport of ruining people's lives.

It is just the one that consistently over achieves in this sport.

Over your side of the continent, you are referred to AAT hearing "Repacholi vs CASA".

CASA noted in their evidence that the operator "looked at me with a threatening look and made gutteral sounds".

You can imagine how distressed the CASA person must have felt at this lack of appreciation for having done his job.

Whilst there is no doubt that a good thrashing is in order for these offenders, that would merely make the offenders martyrs.

Such actions are often accepted as the justifiable reaction of an aggrieved person when properly represented in a court.

These people want recognition for the job they have done.

That can be adequately covered by exposing them, having them charged for their criminal activities and having them sentenced to gaol.

That they may be occassionally sodomised in gaol might then help them reflect on what it is that they have been doing to others.

Other solutions are "Tar and Feathering", but this is no longer in vogue, nor is being placed in stocks in the market square.

Somehow, just sacking them, with the associated BIG payouts doesn't seem adequate.

These are some suggestions of what they deserve,

reality says they will be counselled and possibly transferred to Canberra to stocktake pencils and paperclips on their six figure salaries.

[Super Cecil]

Some tell they just wear you down Wizardbloke, I can understand the outrite hostility some feel. It almost seems they are going out of their way to cripple GA, the only reasonable thing I've seen is the treatment of the company with the Bandit that had a the fuel systems failure in the Territory.

[kimwestt]

the wizard & capn starlight
How right you are - having spent time at the AAT (witness) and been subject to the questions of CASA's legal counsel, one wonders how you are allowed to write the word aviation, much less commit it! More info after the decision is handed down!!

[Maximus B]

Air Ace

So what. I have often ferried an aircraft, with just me on board, which I, as the pilot, considered safe but that somewhere in the multi-interpreted rules would have required a LAME to be flown out.

Industry simply can't afford such bull**** over-the-top unrealsitic rules!!!

A general point.

Has it ever occured to the 'dobber morons' here that perhaps the miscreant Tvl Office, like all bullies, isn't likely to attack someone who both knows the rules and has the dirt on them.

Back to my original opinion on the backstabber CASA helpers in our industry. The sooner you are driven out the better.

max

[Air Ace]

Max

I was simply extrapolating a summary of the points which appear to relate an aircraft accident at Brampton Island to alleged malfeasance by CASA, Townville.

Aside from information contained in this thread, I have no knowledge of the affair, live far from the area, have never met those alleged to be involved, nor (to my knowledge) know those who have posted anonymously to this thread.

I am aware of the alleged malingering incompetence and bastardry which has existed in CASA far north Queensland offices for many years.

Now you make an extraordinary post, wherein:
[list=1]
You suggest you know the rules but consider them “bull**** over-the-top unrealsitic rules.”?

You admit to "often" operating an aircraft in an unsafe manner? Am I to read into your post you may have been PIC on the ferry flight in respect to the Brampton Island accident?

You suggest “the miscreant Tvl Office, like all bullies, isn't likely to attack someone who both knows the rules and has the dirt on them”? You know the rules, confirm in your opinion the Townville office has serious and systemic management deficiencies (at the very least….!) and suggest you have “the dirt” on the CASA Townsville office?

You admit the CASA, Townville “miscreant” office “bullies” operators and you have “dirt on them”, yet suggest anyone wishing to expose these same CASA problems are “dobber morons”? One could draw the conclusion you are satisfied with the status quo as you have protection – a “preferential arrangement” perhaps - in place?
[/list=1]
I see. Extraordinary and amazing!!

I rest my case!!

[Mainframe]

Air Ace and Maximus B

Probably at this point the main issue is that it can be clearly established that the FNQAO, Townsville has very serious problems.

It is regrettable that the BPI incident has probably blown a little out of proportion.
Whatever happened is a minor incident and will be investigated and classified to ATSB.

The FNQAO sometimes does not want to wait for a signal from ATSB that a regulatory problem exists,
they are very well known for their pre-empting of any formal investigation,
even attempting to sway the ATSB to think their way.

At other times, in incidents other than this one, they have been known to show a lack of interest.

The real issues are

1. The FNQAO does not treat all equally, some it hounds to extinction if possible, others are left alone.
Some display of impartiality over the years may have averted the inevitable unmasking.

2. The FNQAO is capable of the most despicable behaviour, as stated in their latest AAT foray. That this behaviour is in fact primarily criminal is of major concern.

3. The Director of CASA is acutely aware of the problem but doesn't know how to handle the resolution.

4. The new AM has a most invidious task of sifting chaff from straw, guided by those who know they've overstepped the mark, repeatedly.

In fact, one way or another, his future career rests on decisive action.

If he fails to sack the offenders, they will ensure his demise, they have an established track record of attack from within.

If he reaches the correct decision and moves them on, will BB be grateful that his dilemma has been solved?

2005 promises to be an interesting year.

[Maximus B]

Air Ace

Since the furthest north I have been in 2 years is Coffs, I'd suggest resting is where your rather sad case should be.

Good fair law is to obey, bad criminal law neds to be disobeyed.

Only cowards obey stupid rules.

max

[Air Ace]

"Good fair law is to obey, bad criminal law neds (sic) to be disobeyed.

Only cowards obey stupid rules."

And your policies can only lead to anarchy. Who decides what are "bad criminal law" and "stupid rules" - you???

God help us if there are too many more with your philosophies in Australian aviation.

[Captain Starlight]

Air Ace and Maximus B

You both are on the right track with the well known history of CASA Townsville misconduct.

Can I suggest to you both that the BPI incident is a non event,
and that the industry needs to focus it's angst toward CASA misconduct.

General Aviation needs to temporarily put aside it's differences
and unite to help in the aviation reforms that Byron desperately desires to happen.

Bruce Byron and the new Area Manager Townsville have signalled their intent to put things right.

They both espouse a consultative, mentoring role with industry, rather than the adversarial role with which all of us are familiar.

They have both been rebuffed from within, but they will not waiver,
Byron has finally started the sackings,industry know that at least twenty were needed in Canberra, so now 17 remain.

The Townsville area manager now has to work through a process that should mirror Byron's approach to the rebels of reform.

If you have genuine disappointments with the regulator, contact Nicola Hinder, CASA,
preferably via the CASA website complaints and compliments page.

Likewise, if you have had good service, let her know.

Reform is coming, it is inevitable and well overdue.

It will not sit comfotably with some in CASA, hopefully they will resign before they are sacked.

Quite a few would like to take their knitting to the guillotine and watch with satisfaction.
Revolutions are always bloody, and history confirms, nearly always necessary.

[Maximus B]

Air Ace

Some examples. A CASA FOI decides I must have a LAME sign off (or carry out) a windscreen clean; or CASA writes it into the Regs.

Bad 'law' I will not obey it.

Somehow CASA decides I can no longer change oil or clean sparkplugs despite having been doing it for 25 years.

Bad 'law', I will not obey it.

CASA deems I can no longer do sched 8 stuff.

Bad 'law', I will not obey it.

Who decides, I do, because I don't trust CASA.

Anarchy, perhaps. But then, when the regulator turns feral, the Minister is having a blonde century and GA is too busy tearing its own throat out, anarchy is bound to happen.

Max

[Mainframe]

Max B

I don't trust CAsa

Now we're getting to crux of the matter.

DOES ANYONE HAVE TRUST, CONFIDENCE or RESPECT for CASA as it is at present??

Speak louder, I can't hear you !

Bruce Byron knows this and has initiated moves to attempt to restore TRUST, Confidence and Respect,
instead of the Loathing and Contempt that the rogue element has engendered.

There are many in CASA who are going to fight this reform with considerable energy, simply because it threatens their existence.

On with the revolution, erect the guillotine and the gallows and let's purge the misfits, let them understand the way and the life.

[Captain Starlight]

Mainframe

Anyone whisper back with assertions of trust, confidence or respect yet?

I think you'll need to wait a while until the revolution is over!

[Mainframe]

This thread has helped expose the Townsville office and served it's purpose well.

Suggest all further posts go to "BB, FNQ" or "CASA Serious Problems"

The Truth is out there. Keep looking BB, AC and others, you will find it.

[the wizard of auz]

In response to the letter from CASA thread, I would like to assure readers that I was in no way encouraging any threats toward any CASA staff.
I was only expressing surprise, that if these alledged incidents were occuring with as much vindictivness and regularity as was being reported, that somebody hadn't lost the plot and got all personal about it.
I in no way encourage or condone such behaviour.

[ginjockey]

Well back-pedalled Wiz, despite a search of your posts revealing a strong tendency to go in hard at the drop of a hat, I'm sure everyone knows that you had the absolute best of intentions when you were previously discussing the use of a pick handle to remove the teeth of the people in question.

Well said indeed......

[the wizard of auz]

Onya Ginjockey, another one.
as I stated on the other thread, I certainly didn't back peddle.
If I am going to make a threat, believe me, I'll make it quite clear that its a threat. If you bothered reading the post I made last night, you will read, with no uncertainty, that I was, and still am, surprised that someone that has been alledgedly victomised/unfairly treated and it has cost them their livelyhood/licence/AOC/tons of money, hasn't taken it personally and done something about it. lots of people were stating that there was a LONG STANDING problem in FNQ, so eventually, if there is a problem, something is likely to happen. (sort of like the engine failure thats going to happen if you fly enough hours)
Also as I stated on the other thread, after reading the CASA letter of response, and then rereading the thread, my post could be taken out of context, so I posted again to clear that up.
If I intended the post to be a veiled thread, I would have left it without trying to clear it up.
why do you have a problem with the fact that I wasn't intending to threaten CASA people?.
As I am no longer in the industry, I have very little to lose by threatening CASA staff on a public board.........and even less to gain by doing a back peddle............so go figure. :hmm: