The Multi IR Course - Questions

[thereceiver2004]

Just about to embark on the ME IR after christmas and have elected a local flying school which offers the Seneca III as the MEP aeroplane.

The course they suggest in the literature is

10 hours FNPT
10 hours PA28-R
15 hours FNPT
15 hours PA34

total price including landings and approaches at HOME field of about 12,000.

After signing up to the course and paying deposit, I have been speaking to the school and they are trying to pursuade me to, take more seneca time as

"a sigificant number of IR aplicants have little MEP time and virtually all require significantly more time in the aeroplane, we suggest you use the PA34 wholly"

now i sort of expected this as the difference is 110 per hour.

I have been looking at all schools AGAIN an all have a similar hours v sim setup. I know of three people completing the ME-IR in this way with no probs.

I recently did the MEP and passed the skills test first time and found flying the seminole relatively straight forward. I know the seneca is different, faster, heavier and more complicated but once again i am getting the PRE-ME-IR dropping bricks again.

re-assurance is needed.

should i stick with the original concept or should i heed their advice and scrap the arrow infavour of the seneca, pay out more money in the hope of getting a better chance at the test, or go with the flow ??

difficult to answer as i know everyone is different but some advice based on experience here would be great

Thanks in advanc and merry christmas

[flystudent]

I can only speak from the experiences I have had in this area. Getting used to the plane after the likes of a warrior/arrow does take some time but if I understand correctly you have done the multi engine rating already ?what was this on ?

Rather than commiting to sending more money when you might not need to why not go with the flow I imagine the structure of your course is to...

10 hours FNPT ----- familiarise IR procedures (what a/c is this FNPT setup as ?)
10 hours PA28-R ---- Do IR for real in a slower a/c
15 hours FNPT ------ not sure why back to FNPT here unless its a senecca one and the one above was an arrow one ?
15 hours PA34 - the baby.

My personal concern would be continuity, make sure you can get it, how I have no idea but instructor availabilty, a/c availability, weather (get a weather making machine) ;-) etc etc

[thereceiver2004]

hi, i did the MEP on the Piper Seminole, two engined arrow really.

the setup at the school is

FNPT - set up as arrow
arrow
FNPT - set up as seneca
seneca

i am the only student at the school in Jan, there is one arrow, two senecas, the instructor i have for the flying part is ex-head of cafu and a separate guy for the sim.

structure is exactly how you said.

I have seneca checklist wth speeds and power settings and now commiting them to memory. Obviously I know each and every aeroplane type is different and takes some getting used to.

[WX Man]

My 2p worth:

If you can get used to flying the Seneca under instruments in 15h, then brill- go for it. Otherwise I'd opt for a bigger proportion on the aircraft.

It's only so that you can be completely familiar with the nuances of different aircraft when you go for test: the school I was at had 3 Duchesses, one of them basically refused to slow down as quickly as the other two. Another one had one prop about 500rpm different with the same lever position, which obviously takes extra capacity to sync the props. It's little things like this which, in themselves are insignificant- but as soon as you sit Mr. CAAFU Examiner next to you, they have the potential to cost you an extra £2000 unless you know about them, and how to deal with them.

[CAT3C AUTOLAND]

Like Fly S, I am only commenting from my own experiences.

I think 15 hours in the Seneca is ample. Myself and two of my friends both completed the IR course with the 15 hour minimum, and we weren't topguns, we just worked hard. By the end of the course you will feel comforable with the aeroplane. As Fly S said, continuity is important for you to keep moving forward.

One of the only advantages I had is I did do my multi engine rating on the Seneca 3.

Good Luck with the course.

[flystudent]

I think 15 hours on the Seneca FNPT II sounds good, the course I did had more which seemed a bit too much, I personally would rather have had less time on the FNPT and more on the a/c obviously there is a cost implication.

For me once I was up to speed in the sim there was no problem on an IR route but put me in the A/C and man a whole different ball game. Like WX Man so many more things to test your capacity - radios (in the sim you know when he says some instruction it's for you) synch props, egt's, unexpected instructions, windso that dont stay static, lol, runway changes the lot - I had to raise my game when shiffting between the two.

Ask your instructor to be dead straght with you, if he feels you have benefited to a sufficient level in the sen sim before the 15 hours seek to move to the real a/c and put the difference into that (obviosuly not like for like in the ££ department) - but this obviously depends on the expectations of your instructor - if he expects you to walk on water you may never be up to standard :{ all depends how your flight school decide to try and break all the confidence you have :sad:

Did you do your MEP and other training with the same school ? If not - some of your time no doubt will be spent undoing some ways you have been taught and re teaching them.

Re learning the checklist - I flew with different instructors during my IR and neither of them used the standard checklist speeds etc so might be worth checking if it's worth brushing up on those ones you are using or if they have a different way of doing it.

re the hours - perhaps ask them if you can be flexy with these hours or if it's set in concrete.

Ah hindsight is a wonderful thing, all the questions I'd have if I was embarking on this emotional roller-coaster again he he :D

which school is it ?