Flying pay for UK Mams.

[bighead]

As a resently qualifyed mover i was happy to find that at last our valuable contributon to flying has been recognsed. As a greduate of a recent course we were delighted to find lower rate of flying pay on our pay statements. Who swaid that we don't qualify as aircrew?? Only a brevet away!!!!

[3xGreens]

Just as well your flying pay isn't dependant on your spelling aptitude.

[The Rocket]

Unfortunately, that big head of yours seems to be full of sawdust.

As has been said many times before, but seems rather fitting here, perhaps you should have tried harder at school.:E

[Mobile Muppet]

Nice try Big head.

Seems to me that your one of those losers who loves to try and get a bite... well how about get a life. This has all been done before...

MM

[Wappy Tupper]

As a reesently qualyfied pylot I always wundered why movers get flying pay when they are lazy ignorent muppets who don't do an in-flyght job!

[Mobile Muppet]

Just before this turns into another mover bashing thread I would just like to ask those who are curious about our crew pay if they know anything about why we get it and more importantly who gives it to us.

Dont mind good banter, just dont want this thread to turn into another movers vs loadie slagging match making all those involved look rather childish.

MM

[4PON4PIN]

Back in late 60's early '70's when UK MAMAS (sic!) were at Abingdon, the bar would resound to the call of Mooovers Mooove ... SLOWLY! They were going on about flying pay and having a brevet back then.
We suggested that the old Observer's brevet be resurrected and that it be worn on a part of the anatomy commensurate with being a flying a$$ole.
Good to know the old banter continues 35yrs down the road. ;)

[StopStart]

MM

As a fan of UKMAMS generally (hush my mouth) I would genuinely like to know the thinking behing Movers getting crew pay continously.

To be honest I couldn't give a monkey's who gets it - it doesn't come out of my pocket so why should I begrudge anyone extra cash if they can get it? My only "complaint" is that GEs don't get crew pay full time. That is, frankly, scandalous :mad:. It is also, however, no fault of the muppets.

As for brevets - why not? Gives people something to work towards and be proud of when they get it.

Anyway, as I said, my major gripe with the system is that GEs don't get enough recognition for the work they do - but that's another topic all together :D

PS. Don't get me started on base movers though...... :yuk:

[Wycombe]

Errrr, so are base movers at LYE no longer part of UKMAMS then??

[Blakey875]

SS

Well said. Only movers on mobile duties receive this crew pay and that does not include the officers or the WO on the training staff. The case goes back some years now to when the RAF element of the JHSUs were receiving helicopter crew pay (for parity as the army element already were). This again primarily came about as a result of the task in the Falklands where the 'hookers' were scheduled with a crew on a daily basis. Back at Lyneham the mobile element were still primarily samsonite soldiers doing a lot of flying and an attempt was made to claim crew pay not that they thought they would have much success. Surprise surprise they got it but do they still deserve it is another question. You are quite right to say that it's not the movers fault that the GE's don't get it full time. What happened there was that as we all know their tech skills are unsurpassed but their admin skills were lacking and they worded their claim to state that they would only earn crew pay when they actually flew.....

Maybe's they should resubmit the argument. As for the bighead who started this I suspect he is not a mover and is just making mischief. He hasn't even got the courage by the way to receive e-mails - I've tried.

By the way you shouldn't hate Base Movers - they're just misunderstood!

[16 blades]

Bighead (how appropriate),

Surely reciept of flying pay AND the award of a brevet would make you........AIRCREW! That which you despise above all!

Sacriledge to even suggest it, but maybe it won't be such a bad thing.....after all, as aircrew the RAF could raise a F5000 on you and properly document ALL your fcuk-ups in a permanent appraisal record.....at long last!

Be careful what you wish for.......


Blakey,

"By the way you shouldn't hate Base Movers - they're just misunderstood!"

No, they just MISUNDERSTAND............alot.

Tee Hee!

16B

[rej]

Maybe everyone should get flying pay as we all contribute to flying.

Only joking ;) ....... BUT

I thought that Movers only contributed to:

Guardroom-cell population post 'JRM-bop'. :ouch:

Increasing the number of rwy incursions :{

Airframe damage due to p@@@ poor driving. :sad:

Oh and of course

making the rest of us look soooo good!

[Mobile Muppet]

So for all you mover haters, thanks to blakey you all know why we recieve crew pay.

Whether or not were entitled to it is not the case, we get it. I dont complain or brag about my entitlements to anyone i meet. I go down route or on det and get the job done and take home my pay. I never complain that army movers are on the higher pay band or that x is better than y. Perhaps some of the readers of this site should adopt the same attitude (How much do you get paid !). Just a thought.

The army pay our crew pay, not the airforce and I will admit i get on rather well with many GE's and often sympathsise with their case for flying pay. Fingers crossed they can get someone to fight the cause.

MM

[Grimweasel]

Friends across the road in B site get AD pay (an extra allowance for hanging out the doors in flight). Currently @ £6 a day extra many a mortgage has been approved on those extra sums!
The crux is those AD types WORK in the air whereas the Mover waits for the ship to land to commence toil. I think this is where the line is drawn. If you operate in the air u recieve the pay. If you dont....you won't. Simple!! XX

[Mobile Muppet]

Grim

Like many others you have no idea what mobile movers do. (Many senior RAF officers included).

I've no probs with 47 AD but perhaps you should pop down route to Baghdad or Al Udied, do some TALO's or perhaps an OP Phylis . Then YOU can accuratly pass on to others on this site what we do. I wont argue that others dont earn their extra pay and won't comment on what other trades / Forces do, without knowing the facts.


MM

[Mr C Hinecap]

Grim. Think of it this way.......
The Movers (and the GEs!) fly with the frame as part of the operating crew. The aircraft cannot complete it's mission without the crew that were allocated to it - whether their part to play is before, during or after the flying bit. Therefore, they should ALL get paid for it. Simple. Or do you agree that 'arrive late, kick tires, eyeball load I don't understand, fly, land, hotel' is all that is needed to operate? The team goes beyond the flight deck! :E

[juliet]

playing devils advocate.............................

surely then everyone should get flying pay. if the pti's didnt keep me fit then i wouldnt fit through the door and so couldnt fly that load somewhere. same goes for p2 who organise my admin for me (joking here obviously, the never organise anything for me:D) agree with SS in that i really dont care who gets it, i get it and so am happy. my only real grudge, like others, is that GE's, who more and more these days carry out a real airborne job, do not get it continuosly while others who spend far more time on the ground and/or have no role in the air do get it continuosly. change the name to retention pay and give it to the groups of people that are having the hardest problem keeping their people in.

[I_stood_in_the_door]

Mr Hinecap,

If the team goes beyond the flight deck, then why don't the blokes at the pointy end (slightly rounded in the M/E case) take a cut in their flying/retention pay (sharp intake of breath) to enable the bean counters to pay all personnel involved in the mission (GE's (did someone mention a PTI?), AD, Movers et al) the flying/retention/getting rather hot and sweaty pay they deserve?

Any front end volunteers?

Methinks not.

ISITD

:}

[StopStart]

ISITD

Yeah, gladly. I assume that those in the RAF earning more than me will then offer me the difference from their pay? It's all a big team after all....

Three cheers for the Socialist Popular Peoples' Republic!

PS. I want submarine pay. Never been on one but it's all just one big team :ok:

[The Rocket]

Mr C Hinecap,

I'm surprised to find stackers have such an interest in matters such as flying pay:}

At the end of the day, when the $hit hits the fan at 30 000ft, and you're sat in the back of a Tristar/Herc etc. You and the movers may not be complaining so loudly about who gets flying pay and who doesn't, as your captain and the crew work their @rse off to prevent you from spreading yourself over a large area of countryside/desert.

Rant over, helmet on.:*

[Mobile Muppet]

Mr Rocket

Perhaps you should remove said rocket from your rear. Our CREW pay, not flying pay as the front enders etc get, it is an entitlement we get for the job we do (please read previous posts !). Not for flying or fixing a plane.

Do the stewards get their pay for being able to fix an in flight tech snag, or is it for feeding pax and being able to assist pax off the plane in an emergency. Which is something most MAMS guys would do on a herc to assist the loadie in an emergency.

Not a go at anyone, just the facts.

MM

[16 blades]

Movers are NOT part of the crew. They are PAX. The only reason they fly on the aircraft is to load / unload it at the other end, because either the destination has no cargo / pax handling facilities, or we don't want to pay for them.

And loading / unloading / re-roling is something the crew is more than capable of doing; I have done it myself a number of times. Don't get me wrong, when time is tight and you have a big load to shift, mobile teams work damn hard to get it done. But they do not contribute in any way to the actual operation of the aircraft, ergo they are not crew, ergo IMHO they shouldn't get crew pay. Yes, they contribute to the execution of the TASK, but so do lineys, scribblies, ops spt and so on. 47AD SHOULD get crew pay, because they DO operate in the air and are essential to the completion of most TacAT tasks. And I would most certainly NOT allow movers on my aircraft to direct pax in the event of an emergency evacuation, as they are not qualified to do so.

Personally, I DO have a problem with people getting pay they shouldn't get, as it takes money out of a finite, ever-shrinking pot that could be better used elsewhere. If we didn't pay movers crew pay, maybe we could afford more spares and keep more aircraft airborne. And if we didn't give them flying suits and gloves, maybe there would be some left for those that actually NEED them for their job.

Rant over, standing by for incoming......

16B

[PPRuNeUser0172]

I stood In the Door

What have you been smoking? Being reading too much Karl Marx recently? What utter hoop

I know, I will spend years of training to become flight deck (Pilot/Nav) crew and then I will take a pay cut to share out amongst the Blunties that work down the back. GET REAL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If you were fishing for a bite, then well done you got one, but I have a horrible feeling you were serious..........

DS

[Lee Jung]

Movers don't have a role in the air, hence no extra pay. You chaps might be doing a sterling job in Iraq but it is not a factor to get flying pay (the clue is oin the name). Do not insult the intelligence of any of us by claiming you form part of an aircrew, you don't.

The last I heard BA, Easy Jet et al were not desparate to loose all baggage, or leave passengers baggage behind in order to fit your DFs on, so why would we need to pay you more than LSSA when you are on ops?

A role can be found for you though, I suggest we cover you in tin foil and chuck you out when the RWR goes off. The RCS should be about the same.

[Mr C Hinecap]

As pointed out - Crew Pay - not Flying Pay. Heaven forbid!

Frankly - I could care less about that sort of thing. Non-MAMS and never going to be, so only here to add balance. However, those Movers are manifested as Crew, they are fed as Crew, accommodated as Crew and paid Rates as Crew. Therefore, they are Crew. They don't decide that or travel as PAX as they have a part to play in the Role of the frame. 16B - I am flattered that you care so much. You also forget that the Role of the frame extends beyond the wingtips - a lot happens before and after the aircraft moves that are related to the Role. :ok:

[PPRuNeUser0172]

Just a thought, but lets give this thread no more of our attention. The illiterate runt who started it is either a wind up merchant or a total @rse who wont appreciate to the subtle banter on here anyway.

Movers are not aircrew, never will be and will forever be suppliers with an over inflated sense of importance and even bigger share of incompetence.

There are those who joined as pilots and those who wanted to!

;)

[Hueymeister]

Well said Lee Jung....most of the movers I know/have worked with are Ok, with one enormous exception....Lunghi Airport June 2000....you know who you were..and you were @rse!!!!!!!!!!!

[Echo 5]

I am totally astounded that so many of you regular contributors have taken the bait that this prat has dangled..........hook line and sinker or what.

Anyway, I always thought the only things to be found in Grimsby were fishing boats !!

Regards to all,

E5:D

[Mobile Muppet]

ZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzz, bored now.

This thread has been done soooo many times before. How many times do we have to go over the same old "I hate movers" line.

Lets end it please.

MM

[bighead]

Thanks lads, just wanted to do some fishing and caught some really big fish!! :D

I'll get back to spending all my hard earned flying pay now.

[November4]

Movers are NOT part of the crew. They are PAX.

Afraid you are wrong there - if you check the Transops you will see they are classed as Support Crew. The same as GE/SVC and ATSy.

And I would most certainly NOT allow movers on my aircraft to direct pax in the event of an emergency evacuation, as they are not qualified to do so

I was on a VC10 where we had to jump down the emergency chutes. Who was at the top directing the pax to jump? The MAMS Fg Off and Sgt. The ALM "fell" down the chute as soon it opened.

As for the Tw@t who started this - think the @RRSE site would be more appropriate for you

[3xGreens]

Mr Rocket,

" I'm surprised to find stackers have such an interest in matters such as flying pay "

For a supposed FJ mate you seem rather opinionated on AT matters whereas Mr C may be a stacker, perhaps on a Movs tour, he is just as entitled to an opinion as anyone else.

" At the end of the day, when the $hit hits the fan at 30 000ft, and you're sat in the back of a Tristar/Herc etc. You and the movers may not be complaining so loudly about who gets flying pay and who doesn't blah blah "

Haven't seen any Movers on this thread complaining about receiving crew pay, only you aircrew gits seem to have an issue with it.

[PPRuNeUser0172]

How eloquent 3xgreens;)

[grousehunter]

Next time you do 2 years of training to get your AIRCREW brevet come and see us. Until then stop wondering why it annoys people so much when movers get flying pay. On the kipper fleet we do our own moving. Its not hard. You just get in the way.

[3xGreens]

Dirty Sanchez,

I apologise............tw@ts deleted............gits inserted .;)

grousehunter,

Cannot make it any simpler than this.......Mobile Muppets get CREW pay........NOT...........Flying pay.:=

[glum]

Grousehunter, I did three years training as an apprentice engineer, so try not to sound smug about doing two eh? If flying was hard, engineers would have to do it...:D

[PPRuNeUser0172]

Oh give us a break, this is turning into a pissing competition. The Royal Air Force is about projecting Air Power, and as a result if your job is not to fly (aircrew by that I mean Pilots and maybe Navs), then it is by implication, there to support those who do. Not to build petty empires.

Any questions??


DS

[16 blades]

Well said DS. As for:

"I was on a VC10 where we had to jump down the emergency chutes. Who was at the top directing the pax to jump? The MAMS Fg Off and Sgt. "

I re-iterate:

"I would most certainly NOT allow movers on my aircraft to direct pax in the event of an emergency evacuation, as THEY ARE NOT QUALIFIED TO DO SO"

Important bit in capitals, for the hard of thinking.

Movers are baggage / freight handlers. Nothing more. So stop pretending you're anything else.

16B

[OKOC]

Muppits (Sp) never were, and never will be regarded as, Aircrew by aircrew. Sorry you just aren't good enough.

The only reason they have managed to slime their way into extra money (and they do LOVE that) is because there are Snr Officer Muppits (unlike the poor old GE's, who DO deserve the extra dosh, BUT don't have Heavy Duty braid fighting THEIR corner) and thus don't get their well-deserved FLYING PAY. (we aircrew like GE's.)

What next, a CAS Muppit! God forbid, but actually it's not such a bad idea cos they blag all the best hotel rooms for themselves before the workers (ie the aircrew who flew them in arrive at the hotel) so they certainly know how to look after themselves, and who knows, when in power they may start to look after those who should be looked after.

[P-T-Gamekeeper]

As I understand it, movers get crew pay due to their airbourne role during TALO, so crewpay starts upon TALO qualification.

As to why theirs is continuous and GE's only on flying days, well, the senior mover is an Air Marshall, and the chief GE is..., well, ... a Chief. You work it out!!!

[Echo 5]

Glad to see that so far the Loadies (as far as I'm aware) have kept out of this farce. All the vitriolic postings , for whatever reason, seem to have come from front enders or semi front enders ( a Nav for God's sake).


16Blades,

posted 3rd May 2004 14:04
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

" I may be stating the obvious, but since this this site is designed for AIRCREW and this thread specifically for MILITARY AIRCREW, WTF are movers doing posting here anyway? surely you should be in the wannabe's forum, if anywhere? The fact that muppets are on here at all says it all really.......you ARE all aircrew wannabes! "
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------


A chip on your shoulder the size of the Rock of Gibraltar. Obviously some Mover has in the past given you or someone close to you a good shafting. You do realise that counselling is available for those like yourself.
Have you made it to the left hand seat yet or are your demons as far as Movers concerned holding you back ?


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
" I re-iterate:

"I would most certainly NOT allow movers on my aircraft to direct pax in the event of an emergency evacuation, as THEY ARE NOT QUALIFIED TO DO SO"

Important bit in capitals, for the hard of thinking.

Movers are baggage / freight handlers. Nothing more. So stop pretending you're anything else."
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------


You may regret these words one day when the sh!t hits the fan and you're left to stew !!

Edited for a bit of tidying up.

[16 blades]

E5,

You are correct, I do not like movers, but not because I was stung by one as a child. I have come across some good blokes on MAMS and Base, and know a few personally but on the whole, Movers are arrogant, incompetent, and totally convinced of their own imagined indispensability. As I already posted, Aircrew are essential to the completion of a task, movers (of the mobile variety) are not.

This attitude has developed with years of experience of dealing with them, both professionally and, on occasion, socially, and not simple naked prejudice, as you suggest.

Remember, in civvy street you would be simple baggage handlers and check-in staff, who are paid f**k all - that is how an open marketplace regards these trades. Pilots, on the other hand, are paid roughly twice what the service pays us, and can usually find such employment with ease on leaving the service. I rather think that the chips are all on mover shoulders, not aircrew.

And if the "sh1t hits the fan", I shall be the LAST to leave my aircraft as convention dictates. Why should I allow ANYONE on my aircraft to do things they are not qualified for, and only THINK they know how to do? To do so would be a gross negligence of responsibility.

16B

[Radar Riser]

Dirty Sanchez

"Aircrew,by that I mean pilots and maybe navs"

We have a reply on Rods for attitudes like that, shut the f@*k up and just drive the bloody bus!:p

If you work on an aircraft whilst it is airborne, to get it's job done, then surely you must be aircrew.:ok:

Just because you drive it, doesn't mean that you can work it all by yourself, single seaters excluded, obviously.

RR

[Mr C Hinecap]

S0d the rest of the banter (and handbags - 16B - ooOOOooo - look at you!) - I want to know who the Chief Mover is at Air Marshal level?! Being a Supply Officer with a Movements qualification (note - do not believe I have supernatural powers here) I am wondering who is secretly the head man. Seeing as the Supply Branch of officers covers the management of the Movements Trade, then the Head of Branch is an Air Commodore. I know that - I met him. Seeing as the Chief Engineer is higher than that, then I want to know who it is I work for? Other than CAS of course.
Sanchez. Those that fly just do the bit to get the platform around. Our role is to project air power, not to put men in the sky. Therefore, those that fly are part of the team to put that lump of metal and string somewhere in time and space. The aircraft is the important bit.
They'll have unmanned aircraft before freight can load itself. Oh - they do? Soopah. :E

[16 blades]

Thank you, Mr 900kgs per linear ft - I'll put my handbag away now!

Personally, I think we'll see fully automated condecs and aircraft loading systems before we'll see unmanned aircraft in operation - after all, Russian freighters have had aircraft-mounted crane systems for years - one man loading! (by the loadie)

Would YOU fly as a pax on an unmanned aircraft?

16B

[Mobile Muppet]

16B

After browsing round this site I have to ask. Do you actualy do any of this flying gibberish you are continualy ramming down our necks, as it seems to me you spend all your time either posting or bleating on PPrune.

MM

[16 blades]

MM,

I'm touched that you took the trouble. Maybe if you don't like the 'flying gibberish' 'rammed down your neck', may I suggest you are in the wrong job?

I'm not a particularly prolific poster on this site, compared to most (or you, with my 0.2 posts per day compared to your 0.1) - only when I find myself with some time on my hands.

I will concede, however, that I do like to bleat here from time to time, but only because the service takes a dim view of those who do it openly at work.

16B

[November4]

"I was on a VC10 where we had to jump down the emergency chutes. Who was at the top directing the pax to jump? The MAMS Fg Off and Sgt.

I re-iterate:

"I would most certainly NOT allow movers on my aircraft to direct pax in the event of an emergency evacuation, as THEY ARE NOT QUALIFIED TO DO SO"

That may be the case but you missed out the little extra bit that I had said

The ALM "fell" down the chute as soon it opened.

No ALM - so we sit there waiting for the Steward to come up from the rear galley or ......

[Sideshow Bob]

Just a quick question for the movers. If you are all so good and deserve all the extra pay for looking after loads, where is my bl**dy Nav bag and Headset you lot lost 6 months ago? How hard can it be to find 4 very large tri-wall boxes, they are all labelled, all you have to do is get off your arses and remember where you put them.

[Echo 5]

Bob,

" If you are all so good and deserve all the extra pay for looking after loads,"

Sorry mate but the extra pay isn't for looking after loads but for having to fly with some of the prats that have been posting on this thread.;)

Sorry again that your kit still hasn't turned up.

Regards to all non vitriolic persons.

E5.:cool:

[Mad_Mark]

So, let me just get this straight :hmm:

Movers that deploy on aircraft so that they can unload/rerole/load the aircraft when it is on the ground get 'crew' pay for flying (in other words 'flying' pay) :confused: If that is the case I will be heading straight to the powers that be to get our Norman groundies 'crew' pay when they fly with us on deployment so that they can AF/BF and fix our mighty hunters :ok:

Must echo some of the words already written... from my experience of AT flights around the world (yes, even other aircrew have to use AT at times :( ) movers really are a bunch of unhelpful to$$ers. One exception I have come across (not literally :oh: ) was a female mover that was recently(ish) in Basrah :ok:

MadMark!!! :mad:

[Mobile Muppet]

Well Bob and Mark,16B and the rest,

Despite the fact that only a few movers post on this site, mostly to the bait that you aircrew blokes throw at us shows how much you all look down your nose at us low lifes (movers) and how much you all hate us.
Sorry but in ten years i have never had a bad word to say against anyone i've worked with, but for any outsider reading this thread they must look in disbelieve.

Glad to know that a few bad movers have made such an impression on you that were all tW@ts that you tarnish us with the same brush. Next time i'm away i might look behind my back to see who is stabbing me in it. Thanks for all your support.

Pay has no issue on this thread, just a chance to slag off anyone and everyone.. again.. please grow up. 95% of movers have no say in policy we just do what we do.

MM

[16 blades]

OK, this looks like it's getting a bit serious now, so I'll lay the banter aside for a bit.

MM, it's not so much WHAT movers do but the WAY they do it that annoys aircrew. As long as the movements world indoctrinates its exponents with the "Aircrew are just bus drivers - we're the REAL sharp end" attitude (and that attitude as rife among the MAMS community), aircrew will continue to have little respect for movers, so don't be surprised when the banter / dislike / etc comes straight back at you.

It is exceptionally aggrieving to have to put up with attitudes like this. I am not saying that aircrew are all gods and shouldn't have to take such 'disrespect' from mere mortals- not at all. It is just another 'push' factor on top of all the other sh1te that comes our way after having trained and worked long and hard, to be so undervalued by those who are supposedly on the same team as you. As I've already mentioned, aircrew skills are worth alot more in civvy street, and I imagine an awful lot of us will be taking those skills there soon.

I have tried many times to be friendly and 'inclusive' with mobile teams downroute, only to be met with arrogance and disdain (initiated by them) - it seems to be endemic in the MAMS world. I WANT the movers to come downtown with the rest of my crew - almost always, they won't.

Whilst it is true that the task would never get off the ground without someone to load the aircraft, co-ordinate requests for AT, build pallets, etc, without aircrew there would be no task at all.

Don't start none, won't be none, as a wise philosopher once said.

I offer an apology if I offended you, as reading back, some of my posts were a little over-vitriolic.

16B

[SRENNAPS]

Sorry have to interupt.
In my experience as a techie I am normally at the lap of the Gods with respect to Aircrew and Movers.

However I have to say that it is my opinon that when the chips are down, the movers come out on top.

Over the years I have seen the world and been on many Tonka trails. Trail Transport crew are quite good but you have to get to know them first and this might mean a trip half way round the world before they actually talk to you. When you do get to know them they are brilliant and the team clicks.

On the other hand Movers tend to have a cup of tea waiting for you when you get there. They work their nuts off (quite often Flt Sgts, abandoned on their own) and they will help you until the task is complete - instead of poking off to the nearest Holiday Inn. (Ground Eng's excluded from this list)

Just my experience of life down route.

[The Rocket]

3 x Greens,

I quite agree that Mr C is entitled to his opinion on this matter as much as anyone else, as am I.

As has been mentioned before on this thread "Supposed FJ Mates" also use AT from time to time, and have many friends who are ME. Just because I'm not flying Hercs at the minute doesn't mean I don't come across Movers on a fairly regular basis. Your put down of

" Haven't seen any Movers on this thread complaining about receiving crew pay, only you aircrew gits seem to have an issue with it."

Doesn't hold all that much water when you read the original post of a "resently qualifyed mover" complaining that he was delighted to find

"lower rate of flying pay on our pay statements. Who swaid that we don't qualify as aircrew??"

As an Ex Techie, I've had plenty of experience with Movers throughout my career, and as many people on this forum have mentioned, find SOME of them a little too opinionated for their own good. That is not to say that they are all ar$eholes, but a few too many of them think theirselves indispensible, and a bit "Too cool for school" I'm sorry if I've spoken the "Unspeakable truth" but hey ho, I'm entitled to my opinion aren't I?

Hat on!!
:hmm:

[Eagle 270]

So, police dogs do actually fly on occasion. Does that mean they should also be granted flying pay?

I might add, a German Shepard has never 'lost my kit, removed my baggage or generally looked like a link to pre history'.

If MAMS get their wish, is this the route towards total Americanisation? In that everyone who has any vague connection to an aeroplane gets a set of plastic wing like accoutrements on their chest?

I suppose it does make them feel like 'winners' too.


One may point you towards Ebay, I'm sure they have a section were you can purchase a life for just above reserve.

[gingles]

bait if ever i saw it....

ps. i'm cooler and better than anyone here:rolleyes:

[religious educater]

I hope you squadies don't mind if I quickly add an independent view.
I don't usually enter the military section as I have never been in the service, I have however been in civil aviation for many years now, and found this debate particularly interesting.
Working in the management team of perhaps the biggest aviation related PLC in the UK, I have come across a number of staff who were once MAMS personnel, none of them hold positions in either the baggage departments or passenger check in areas, but work in dispatch,operations,training and security some at senior levels. The ones I have met personally seem professional, highly motivated, well trained and fun this can also be said for the ex Air Force crew I have seen. Having read some of the comments on here it is no surprise these people have left the service, and moved to highly paid role's in which they are appreciated.

[Echo 5]

Hmmmm...............Gone quiet all of a sudden. Looks like the smart asses have no clever response to a totally unbiased post.

Eagle 270.

Actually it's a German Shepherd. At least you didn't use the term Alsation which would have been very non PC.

" If MAMS get their wish, is this the route towards total Americanisation?

Lost me there old son. Please elucidate, ie explain WTF you are on about.

Regards to all,

E5:)

[Always_broken_in_wilts]

In my limited experiance when carrying police dogs you always carry an experianced handler with dog in a secure kennel............but I have never worked out why we lock up the real detective whilst leaving "clueless" to roam free..........keep collecting those "gerbers" boys:rolleyes:

all spelling mistakes are"df"alcohol induced

[Blakey875]

ABIW

Talking of dogs reminds me of a comparison someone made a few years ago of a Herc crew. the Capt was akin to an alsation, big and normally friendly. The Co was a labrador , friendly and somewhat naive. The Nav was obviously a pointer and the Eng a mongrel. The loadie we all thought should be a terrier, the smallest of the bunch but always yacking and demanding attention....

[Always_broken_in_wilts]

Whilst no doubt the crew themselves, and no dobt the Pax as well, saw the MAMS folks as Poodles, fresh from the parlour.

Dressed up to look like a real "dog" but in fact absolutely nothing like a real "dog":ok:

Merry Xmas old fella:ok:

all spelling mistakes are "df" alcohol induced

[Echo 5]

Now then guys,

"So, police dogs do actually fly on occasion. Does that mean they should also be granted flying pay"

Shouldn't think old PC Dog is due any flying pay but he sure as hell should be entitled to " carers allowance " for looking after his brain dead workmate Cpl Plod.

Blakey/Wilts,

Nice to see the gang is back bantering away. Merry Christmas eveyone.

E5.;)

[dopeonarope]

"If MAMS get their wish, is this the route towards total Americanisation? In that everyone who has any vague connection to an aeroplane gets a set of plastic wing like accoutrements on their chest?"

This I guess is a reference to the fact that North American Forces (US & Canadians) wear a brevet if they are connected with flying, techs, movers etc. Aircrew get 2 wings what ever profession that they may be. This makes sense, those who fly get 2 wings to fly and those who fly occasionally get 1 wing! Perhaps HM Forces should adopt this concept.......... NOT!!

Remember folks you are supposed to be one big team. Nothing works without the other.

Keep safe out there and Merry Christmas to all.


Hoist to crew winching over and Out!:cool:

PS give them crew pay when they fly, not when they don't

[BigGrecian]

Surely this should be under the whatever next thread?

[Now a 'J' Bloke!!]

Hi Gang;

Once spotted a WO 'mover route checker':mad: down the back of Albert once in flying suit proudly wearing his 5000 hr badge and filling out his log book....:confused:

Crew Pay I don't have an issue with...but I think that the GEs should be on the same playing field.:sad:

Condiments of the season...:yuk:

SFS :cool:

[Door Slider]

Returning from the desert recently I saw an SAC steward with a 2000+ hours Tristar badge!
Chicken or Beef anyone.

[Now a 'J' Bloke!!]

Slider;

At least stewards do something useful whilst airborne....;)

Condiments of the season:ok:

SFS

[Door Slider]

whats that then?? waking you up to see if you want a crap meal??