Crewing on Boeing 767

[sammypilot]

My nephew today flew from Chicago to Manchester on AA 054, a Boeing 767. The Captain announced that, per FAA requirements, there were three flight crew and passengers should not be concerned to see one member of the flight crew in the cabin. There would still be two up front.

I always thought that the 767 on a 7/8 hour flight was a two crew operation. Has something changed recently.

[Seat1APlease]

I dont know about AA but this can be very complicated, sometimes heavy crewing is required by union agreement, sometimes by legal requirements, but this is not just governed by sector length but factors such as number of sectors in the duty, start time, rest time before duty, are they acclimatised to local time etc. etc.

Sometimes other factors come into play, for example it could be that they then stay overnight in Manchester for 20 hours wake up jet-lagged and then have to fly back into a head wind taking an hour longer than the Easrbound journey with the usual tailwind and this return triggers the extra man.

It is a minefield to sort out sometimes!

[Notso Fantastic]

I believe it is normal crewing for US airlines to have 3 pilots on transatlantics. It should be so for British airlines too!

[Paracab]

What makes you say that Notso ?

Is it based on the length of the sector or other factors ?

[Re-Heat]

It is normal due to ALPA union agreements to have 3 crew over the Atlantic. On short slips I imagine it makes a large difference to workload, but is nowhere near legal requirements.

Notso - you obviously put faith in the NASA model for jetlag!

[bushpilot]

I guess it depends on the airline and the sector length/time it takes to fly plus union guidelines ,Also country's aviation authority regs>>
I flew KLM Amst-ATL, and there were 3 deck crew, in AA I always see three deck crew east or west over Atlantic whenever I travel. But I flew Gulf Air from Paris to Dubai one time and there were 2 deck crew. Maybe a Long haul pilot can chip in more.

[Intruder]

Two other considerations:

If the flight was airborne for close to 8 hours, the total block time may have been over 8, which would trigger the FAA requirement for 3 Pilots.

There may have been a Check airman performing a Line Check or other checkride.

[surely not]

Maybe this heavy crewing, when compared to other companies, is a contributory factor in the poor financial performance of USA airlines.

[LanFranc]

A check of the scheduled block times reveals:
ORD-MAN = 7hr 40 min (no 3rd pilot required, but close)
MAN-ORD = 8hr 25 min (3rd pilot required)
Since you need the 3rd pilot for leg back and you'd have to get him over there anyway, why not have him operate over as a relief pilot since it is a long sector anyway.

[RaTa]

I quite often do sectors that are up to 9-10hrs long (flight time) requiring an extra pilot due Flight Time Limitations.
A great aircraft, good for short or long haul, just not ultra long haul! :D

[sammypilot]

Thanks for the suggestions everybody. Clearly could be many reasons for 3 flight deck crew. Have previously flown to and from Orlando several times with Britannia and they get by with 2 crew hence my query.

[Tempsford]

Heard that B767 in Oz with Ansett had a third man on the flight deck. Can anyone verify this?

Temps

[Zigzag]

Yep, true. Only ones in the world. They were changed back to two crew about 4-5 years ago.

[Tempsford]

Zigzag,
thanks for the clarification
Temps