"The Saint" - a famous bomber?

[You Gimboid]

I am trying to find any information at all regarding a famous British bomber in the Second World War that carried the motif of "The Saint" - a little white stick-man figure with a halo.

Just to make it difficult, I don't know what the bomber was - possibly a Wellington or a Lancaster?

If anyone can point me in the right direction it would help me enormously. Thanks!

[You Gimboid]

I am trying to find any information at all regarding a famous British bomber in the Second World War that carried the motif of "The Saint" - a little white stick-man figure with a halo.

Just to make it difficult, I don't know what the bomber was - possibly a Wellington or a Lancaster?

If anyone can point me in the right direction it would help me enormously. Thanks!

[almost professional]

not sure if it was a specific airframe but I'm sure an RAF squadron has/had the saint motif as its emblem

done a bit more research-XVI squadron RAF

[Archimedes]

It was a Wellington - of that I'm certain.

I can't quite remember where I saw the pic of it; however, I have a reference to it being X9873, Code KO-P (115 Sqn) based at Marham in 1941.

[Oshkosh George]

I did some as well!

16 Sqn was not a bomber Sqn during the war. They flew Lysanders,then Mustangs,then Spitfires.

Therefore it was probably a specific nose art on a particular bomber.

[PPRuNe Radar]

It was on a 115 Squadron Wellington based at Marham.

[twenty eight]

According to the book Claims to fame:the lancaster by Norman Franks.
The Saint was a mk III Lancaster DV245 with 101 Squadron at Ludford Magna, Lincolnshire.The aircraft failed to return on 23 march 1945 on it's 122nd mission. Shot down by a Me262. There is a small picture in the book of the saint insignia riding a bomb like a cowboy.

[PPRuNe Radar]

Wellington Ic, KO-P, X9875 of 115 Squadron made an emergency landing on the Dutch island Schiermonnikoog on October 31,1941.

http://www.heuvel22.myweb.nl/Kop-1x.jpg

http://www.heuvel22.myweb.nl/Kop-3x.jpg

http://www.heuvel22.myweb.nl/Kop-4x.jpg

With acknowledgement to the Luftwaffe Expert Board :ok:

[Kolibear]

Isn't there an RAF Squadron whose motif is a 'Saint'?

[Genghis the Engineer]

16 Squadron, currently flying Jaguars I believe. The name "Saints" came from St.Omer in France where they were stationed in 1915.

http://www.raf.mod.uk/rafcoltishall/16squadron.html

Probably unrelated to any WW2 aircraft - 16 were flying PR Spits during much of that conflict.

The saint stick figure owes it's origin to a series of 1930s novels by Leslie Charteris, whose character - something of a precursor of James Bond - was named Simon Templar, but more commonly as "The Saint". That stick figure was supposedly his calling card.


http://www.saint.org/images/smfig44.gif
G

[Gainesy]

Yep, 16Sqn, presently at Coltishall with Jaguars.

[PPRuNe Radar]

Definitely in use in WW2 on an individual 115 Squadron aircraft ... see here (http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=154212)

[Oshkosh George]

OK,so why was it famous? Any info,You Gimboid?

[You Gimboid]

OK thanks very much everyone, I've got some more information for the curious:

I asked because my brother recently went to his wife's grandfather's funeral. We were amazed to discover the following information from his old comrades who attended en masse:

Unknown to the family, Eric "Stanley" Baldwin had been an RAF flight engineer who became a pilot and flew Wellingtons, Lancasters and Mosquitos during the war.

Where many of the crews would pack their parachutes as essential equipment, Stanley would only pack his toolbox. During a raid on Benghazi, Stanley's aircraft suffered damage and was forced to land in the desert. This usually resulted in a hazardous trek and sometimes death for crews unfortunate to suffer this fate. Stanley managed to patch the aircraft up using his engineering knowledge, and had the rest of the crew prepare a take-off strip in the desert by moving all the rocks etc and managed to get the bomber airborne again and nurse it back to base.

Stanley apparently flew his Wellington or Lancaster and kept the Saint motif throughout his war service. After the war he became a test pilot for Handley Page / Vickers and test flew various types including the Victor bomber and the Viscount turboprop.

The bizarre thing about this is that none of the family even knew about his colourful past as a pilot; we knew vaguely that he had served in the war but as he never really talked about it, no-one knew what he had done until his funeral and the eulogies of his old squadron mates, surviving crew members and those who knew him at Vickers.

Now, these could just be old war stories; I've tried Googling his name and various other keywords, but this has not unearthed much information. Your input is most appreciated - I am still trying to find out more information about this fascinating history.

[You Gimboid]

Thanks everybody - maybe a moderator could merge this with the thread in Spectators Balcony where there is more information?

[airborne_artist]

Try a post in History and Nostalgia - there are some keen historians there, with access to some good reference books.

[Oshkosh George]

Would have thought the place to start would be his old Sqn mates. They would know everthing. You didn't take any contact details? Much easier than this method!

[twenty eight]

I just checked the book Claims to fame:the Lancaster again. The book lists the thirty four Lancaster that flew 100 missions or more, all the targets, and all their crews.
Eric Stanley Baldwin did not fly on DV254. So his aircraft probably was the Wellington.

[twonky]

Saw it on History Channel 6th Dec re 1000 bomber raid ....can't remember the exact programme
Twonk

[Archimedes]

YG,

An Eric Baldwin, flying Wellingtons in the ME (starting as 2nd pilot) and then Mossies over Europe won the DFC (1944) and the DFM (1941). Since he won his DFC while flying Mossies with 139 Sqn, could they be one and the same, I wonder?

[You Gimboid]

Archimedes,

BINGO!! You are correct. I've just returned from a visit to my brother and returned armed with a fistful of info copied from Stanley's journals, which I will summarise as follows:

He flew 25 missions on the Wellington with 70 Sqn (?) based at Kabrit in Egypt, and won the DFM in 1941. The Saint motif was painted on his aircraft at that time. The tour on Mosquitos with 139 Sqn spanned 75 pathfinder missions and he was awarded the DFC and DSO in 1944.

He served a further pathfinder tour on Lancasters with 35 Sqn before joining Handley Page after the war's end. He was a test pilot on the Victor in 1953.

He never really talked about his early life or war service, preferring to say he "did his bit in the RAF." My sister-in-law said she thought he had been a mechanic! He did, however, remain enthusiastically involved in his local RAF Assn branch.

The toolbox story from my earlier post came from his old gunner Sgt Bob Hughes, who started the war as a rookie air gunner on Blenheims in 1939. He became a veteran of the entire air war with Bomber Command, clocking up an unbelievable number of missions. One of Stanley's test pilot colleagues (Sqn Ldr Rupert Oakley) apparently managed to clock up over 1,000 operational missions. I just can't believe that - 200 per year of the war? If anyone can enlighten me I would be grateful! (Makes the hype over "Memphis Belle" sound a bit trite at just 25 missions!)

Stanley was obviously a brave aviator like many thousands of others who served during the Second World War, and remained sufficiently humble to not even tell his family about his exploits after hanging up his flying boots.

He seems a remarkable man from a remarkable generation, and I'm sure he will rest in peace.

[You Gimboid]

Thanks to Archimedes over on the Spotters forum who correctly identified the real Eric "Stanley" Baldwin DSO DFC! This is copied from my post on that thread:

He flew 25 missions on the Wellington with 70 Sqn (?) based at Kabrit in Egypt, and won the DFM in 1941. The Saint motif was painted on his aircraft at that time. The tour on Mosquitos with 139 Sqn spanned 75 pathfinder missions and he was awarded the DFC and DSO in 1944.

He served a further pathfinder tour on Lancasters with 35 Sqn before joining Handley Page after the war's end. He was a test pilot on the Victor in 1953.

He never really talked about his early life or war service, preferring to say he "did his bit in the RAF." My sister-in-law said she thought he had been a mechanic! He did, however, remain enthusiastically involved in his local RAF Assn branch.

The toolbox story from my earlier post came from his old gunner Sgt Bob Hughes, who started the war as a rookie air gunner on Blenheims in 1939. He became a veteran of the entire air war with Bomber Command, clocking up an unbelievable number of missions. One of Stanley's test pilot colleagues (Sqn Ldr Rupert Oakley) apparently managed to clock up over 1,000 operational missions. I just can't believe that - 200 per year of the war? If anyone can enlighten me I would be grateful! (Makes the hype over "Memphis Belle" sound a bit trite at just 25 missions!)

Stanley was obviously a brave aviator like many thousands of others who served during the Second World War, and remained sufficiently humble to not even tell his family about his exploits after hanging up his flying boots.

He seems a remarkable man from a remarkable generation, and I'm sure he will rest in peace.

[Archimedes]

YG,

Have you the citation for his DFM in the mass of documentation? I have access to it through the 'Big Book of the DFM' (not, obviously, its real name) and can send it to you if you don't. The 'Big book of the DFC' doesn't have a citation, though. The DFM citation confirms that it was 70 Sqn for the Wellington.

[You Gimboid]

If you have that would be great! I haven't seen it previously as most of the info is coming from my brother via his mother-in-law! You can PM it to me or send me your email and I will contact you directly.

Many Thanks,

YG

[Archimedes]

YG, please check your PMs.