Can anyone give me some advice?

[Lightheart]

I'm 37 years old. Have no flying experience. Have spent my adult life in the marketing/business corporate environment.

I believe that whatever our heart/soul "wishes" we should aim for. Not only do I believe it, but I practice it. Had a "wish" five years ago to move to another country, and learn a new language. I did it.

Then two ago I wanted to leave the corporate world and have my own business, so I established a gym from scratch (it took me two years to achieve).

But now I'm at a crossroads in my life. I have but one unfulfilled "wish". To become a professional pilot. Everytime I board a plane I always think back to when I was a boy wanting to be a pilot.

I sold my business and have the funds to pay for my ATPL. However, this is the money that I would use to buy a home for me and my future wife.

My question. Is it realistic to train myself and by the time I'm 39/40 be a viable candidate for employment? As you can appreciate it would probably be the biggest decision I'll ever have to take, taking into consideration my circumstances. I like to throw caution to the wind, but at my age one has to be realistic.

Would be very grateful for your opinions.
Thank you.

[Sensible]

Try this link, a similar post appeared here recently

Buena suerte

Saludos.

http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=150617

edited for lousy spelling as always

[wbryce]

I dont think your too old, I've certainly heard of older...If your commited to your training.

Flight training is very demanding, and will have its ups and downs....I would recommend doing a trial flight If you haven't already done so, and before you commit to spending thousands of pounds on any course, do your class 1 medical first, its around £350-£400 (forgot exact cost) to make sure your medically fit to fly commercially.

You may want to look at the other considerations of being a pilot, how your hours and working schedual will affect your partner.

[Astra driver]

Lightheart,

I made the switch 5 years ago at age 36, although I had been working on my licenses and building my flight time since I was 26 (1 lesson a week on my one day off). My reasoning for giving up a good paying career and taking a 75% paycut was that it is better to regret something you have done vs. something you hadn't.

I would suggest just going for your PPL initially and see if you really love it, if you still find that you have a passion for flying after that then I would say "Go for it"

[hotprop]

This actually is a tough and easy decision.
If you're prone to jumping at things, then it's easy - just do it as they say.

If you spend your years thinking about whether you should do this or that, then don't.

Obviously you seem to fit category 1. What are you waiting for ?
Take a test flight first if not already accomplished.
Then take the medical.
Then buy an ab-initio program at a good outfit, search pprune for tips then go for it. Within two years you'll have all the tickets you need, but not the flighttime. If you're willing to spend alot of cash then a typerating will help.
Then fly, fly and fly some more.
Heck, if you started one company already why not start another!
:ok:

[wbryce]

IMO, research ab initio courses...

You could probably do full time modular and save alot of money, probably do it faster, and you can pick and choose where.

ab-initio is around 60k? (i think the only one that would appeal to me is the stapleford course, as you would walk away with a 737 type rating too) modular on average will be around 40k...

[Lightheart]

Thank you to everyone for your advice.

I'm going to do a test flight to see how I handle that. Then I'll do the physical. Once successfully completed there's an ATPL integrated course in Valencia, Spain. I live just 2.5 hrs drive from there. It'll take me 14 months to complete.

The course dosen't include type ratings. They told me that unless you know which airline you can get a job in and what type they use, it's not worth investing the money, that the airlines usually will give you the training.

Before I go to any trouble I wear glasses for driving. This may be a stupid question but does one need perfect eyesight? Have 0.75 in each eye.

[hotprop]

The comment regarding typerating is part BS.

It was some time ago that you would be given your typerating by the company. They will require it when you apply or they'll make you pay it over a number of years. Any which way, you'll be paying for it. However, you may want to find out which typerating is viable for the company you're interested in before you invest.

No, you don't need perfect eyes, but I don't know the limits.
Your best bet is to call a medical centre and ask.

[Lightheart]

Thanks.

I've got my first flight this Saturday!

Have no preference for any company. Would even move country again to find a good position.

Are there more Boeings or Airbuses in the market? Is there a preference?

However, finishing course with low hrs would mean I'd have to find a non-commercial job to get my hrs up to 500. How do people usually do this, working for transport companies, airambulances etc, I suppose?

[kilobravo]

Hi Lightheart,

Am 35 going on 36, have a ppl and am preparing for ATPL theory.
Don't have the money yet for the whole hour build/cpl/night rating/MeIr/mcc and type rating, but will worry about that later.
I feel I am not that young and should have my head examined, so that is why I am doing it step by step. That way I can carry on working at the same time. I am sure it's harder and takes longer, but it suits me for now. You sound like a bloke who takes calculated risks and makes them pay-off and determination/self-belief is a big part of all the training. I have a bit less of that, so I chose to do it in stages. As far as eyesight is concerned, I did my Class 1 a few weeks ago and my eyes are -3.50 and -4.00,although my glasses correct me as if I was -4.50 and that is the measurement which was used. I was still within the limit which I think is -5.00.
Good luck with it!
PS. How does your future Mrs feel about her future abode going into AVGAS? :uhoh:

[englishal]

Just a thought, and I know I say it every time these posts come up.....

If you are giving up everything to become a pilot, you want to spend as little as possible to get there. So why go and fork out £60,000 and spend 14 months training when it really isn't nescessary?

I spoke to a guy in July, who started training in August for the fATPL via the conversion route, training for the majority of it in the USA. By November he had FAA CPL/IR AND JAA CPL/IR (fATPL).

He was in the fortunate position to have just finished his ATPL writtens before starting the flight training, but even so there are companies out there who will get you from zero to fATPL for around £25,000 INCLUDING the JAA written exams and with the added benefit of holding FAA CPL/IR. These courses take around 18 weeks from start to finish.

I know some people think that this is a mickey mouse route, but its not and the end result is the same, except you exit with more hours / multi hours at the end of the conversion route which can't be a bad thing. Also some people will prefer to have the name of a big FTO on their CV, but at the end of the day it makes no difference.

If you WANT to spend a lot of money you can, if you don't, do a bit of research and you can save yourself tens of thousands of pounds.

Cheers

[ST4G]

Hi, good to hear that there is hope after all. Be very careful as to your future choice in training. Keep searching here for more advice on schools, Modular Vs Integrated. Because a school is just up the road don't spend your money striaight away, make sure that you look at other options. Different schools may sound better or worse, take advise from those ex-students here on pprune. They tend to give a clearer picture of what is going on in the school rather than some marketing type.

Good luck for the future.

[Lightheart]

Kilobravo:
I'm fortunate to have a partner whose very supportive of me. I'm adventurous and it's a good thing she's not the "homely" type or my age because she'd probably be wanting to start a family. For now, she wants to travel, explore...live a little...like me.

englishal:
Where did your friend do his training?

No, I don't WANT to spend a lot of money. Just want to get qualified as soon as is reasonable possible.

The school "up the road" would be convenient as it would permit me to continue seeing my lady. To study in the US would bring about serious questions. However, for the right course/money it would have to be considered considering my circumstances.

Can anyone recommend an establishment similiar to what "englishal" was mentioning?

The school is Valencia is Airmed. Does anyone know it? Does anyone have an opinion on my Boeing vs Airbus question earlier?

[madman1145]

Hi there;

The schools has there minor and major differences, just like there are minor and major differences in people ..
Therefore, because one school fits to one person doesn't necessary mean that it fits you - so, of course get advices etc. but make your own judgements and final decision to where you wanna spend your cash (or loans) ..

And there are probably good and bad schools everywhere, nomatter what country you go to ..

Considering your age I would recommend you the modulary way, not the integrated. With modulary you can:
- go more-or-less with your own speed, go fast and go slow, taking a break if that is needed, making it fit to your private life. Usually older people have more external commitments
- if not happy with your current school, choose another school for the next course and in some cases even in some other countries
- probably end up with a lower cost, because you can "shop around"
- as Astra Driver says, start with a PPL, getting to see if aviation really is what you want. You might find it very different from your trial flight to when you are in the middle of it. Nice to find out before spending too much

I myself have also passed thirty and I found it no easier studying that wast amount of materials you have to study for ATPL (and it's A LOT), been away from the school environment for nearly a decade before studying for ATPL. I have asked others at my age and they agree - it feels harder than when one was seventeen ..
So going at your own speed instead of having to follow a certain one on an integrated course that might not fit you, could be a goody for you - but of course, I don't know if you are a hard reader, having a mind where words stik to like glue the first time ..

Considering fixed wing certificates, you will most likely end up with paying your own TypeRating. That's sadly reality today ..

And as other say, the closest school isn't necessary the best one and one that fits you - check your PM soon ..

[Lightheart]

I just took the APST IPAS online test to check my aptitude and scored very badly.

My mouse was playing up on the Ball Game so could have done better there. But Total Recall and Math test were terrible. OK, doing it at 23:30 is not the best time to do it, but I was surprised that I scored so bad.

Out of the 5 tests I got 4 "Unsatisfactory" and 1 "Satisfactory". No good or excellent. Maybe I'm not cut-out to be a pilot.

Is this test a real indicator? I read in other posts that GAPAN tests are good a weeding out those that shouldn't consider the investment required.

[wbryce]

Most people revise basic maths and physics skills before aptitude testing.

You will know during your PPL phase if your cut out for the job or not....

Do a few lessons with the same instructor, and ask him to be honest, my instructors where to me and where confident I would do well in my commericals....the instructors fly with all types of people, including the people who probably arn't cut out for the job, so I believe there in a better position to say who and whos not than a hand to eye coordination test using a PC.

This is why modular may be better suited, you will get alot of spare change from 60k, plus you have the flexibilities of dropping out, stopping for a break and seeing your wife when ever. Spending 60k on a full time course, and spending max 40k on a modular full time course will get you the same licence, and put you into the same unemployment pool as all the other frozen atpl pilots, plus doing the modular route you will normally have a few more hours to your name.

[hotprop]

Tests are tests. Real life is something else.
I know airlines and training organisations say these tests are good for weeding out the bad from the terrible and in some cases even the good from the mediocre.

However, when it really comes down to flying and multitasking in a cockpit your aptitude for playing mouseball or whatever may not be of much use.

I trained most of my PPL and all of my IR with the ex head of recruitment for the swedish airforce. As such I think he was in a good position to judge my behaviour in a cockpit. I was told flying commercially would be no problem (during IR training) thanks to a cool head and good multitasking.

But, surprise, I failed the tests - due to low multitasking capability (on a relative scale). Obviously, in the cockpit it worked but not on the ground shuffling crap from here to there while answering stupid questions and counting backwards.

My point is. Don't let a web-based aptitude test dictate your future without a second opinion. Preferrably from a non-biased instructor.

[Lightheart]

Thanks, I'll do that...take a few lessons, see how I am in the cockpit and ask the instructor if he thinks I can make it.

[wbryce]

lightheart,

heres an interesting post that gives some indication on what to expect once qualified:-

http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=153845

[Lightheart]

Thanks, but for now I'm more concerned about which course, where etc...if I finally decide to do it. Also this weekend am speaking to my beloved about how all this might affect our relationship.

We wanted to get married and start a family some day. But if I'm going to be spending to train myself that might have to wait.

Am looking forward to my first flight Sat!

[Lightheart]

Hi everyone,

well, I did my first flight and enjoyed it! Ever since have been wondering whether going the modular route may be better. The schools I've been talking to have been trying to convince me to go integrated. Don't know if it's because they just want to sell me the course or because they think doing it quicker is beter because of my age (that's what they say).

[Epic_mg]

Confidence in your abilities is a major factor!!!!

[nunos]

Check your PM`s..................
Regards!