Bristol GRound School

[PrecisionLandings]

Hi just wondering if anyone out there has used Bristol Ground School and what they think off it. I have been looking into modular distance learning course they seem to provide the best package for a nice price.

Any advice greatly appreciated

PrecisionLandings:D

[Olof]

use the search function. There are numerous threads about bristol if I'm not mistaken....

[BitMoreRightRudder]

'Bristol will sort you out'

simple as that:cool:

[FliegerTiger]

I haven't got a single bad word to say about Bristol GS. Absolutely top notch! I'd recommend them to anybody thinking of doing the distance learning option.

FT

[Pack2]

Bristol Ground school are the "Astin Martin" of Schools. They simply dont come any better.

[PrecisionLandings]

Thanks for your replys guys it sounds like the place for me !

[helicopter-redeye]

That thread read like a rehersal for a television advert on Icelandic TV.

[flugalrascal]

Absolutely brilliant!!

[yyzdub]

I did the Bristol course through Pan Aviation in Dublin and found the materials to be great.

I would recommend paying the 30Euro for the online access to their question database - keep going over those online exams and you shouldn't have any problems getting passing marks - I'd say 60% of the questions on each exams I had seen previously online

good luck

yyzdub

[Truthmaster]

I don't know how many pseudonyms bristol can adopt but I highly recommend GTS in Bournemouth the class sizes were alot smaller and I never met one unhappy customer the instructors Dave "duk" Webb with a mere 6500 on fighter jets (jaguar lightening), Pete Swatton the ex Squadron leader who actually writes the Performance book and old Roger Henshaw an ex RAF navigator great chaps and an excellent service all round, and where are all those ex GTS students to back me up!

[helicopter-redeye]

h-r is a current GTS (helicopter) and they are a great bunch, know the subjects inside out, back to front and have a wardrobe of T shirts.

BUT and it is a big but, they are very modest and you never get them doing Icelandic TV ads on PPrune, or anywhere else.

The thing that attracted me to GTS was that :-

(a). Experts, clearly

(b). Advised and did not try to sell themselves, left h-r to make up his own mind with the data

(c). Also advised on other schools (incl. USA) that may be able to address the Helicopter route

(d). I got to talk to the head man, not a salesman/ secretary/ significant other


Tusan Tak! for watching TVIceland

:cool:

[Dick Whittingham]

Easy there, Helicopter redeye. Bristol does not put up anonymous false threads about how good we are. We don't have to.

GTS is a good school, and so are some others. The list of good points you gave for GTS could equally apply to us and the other top schools.

We would be happy if the sniping stopped. Say how good your school is, but don't knock us for things we don't do

Dick Whittingham

[ChocksAwayUK]

What FliegerTiger up there is modestly not telling you is that he's just passed all 8 exams that he took with a 95% average (hope you don't mind FT).

Similarly i've just passed my 8 with a high average that i would have though impossible few months ago. That's not to say people don't drop the occasional one but overall the results speak themselves. Some of the most knowledable, entertaining and enthusiastic teachers I've ever had and great clear notes too.

[jimbo jet set]

Precision landings,
I started the distance learning package that Bristol offer about a month ago and have made excellant progress. I would not describe myself as a seriously brainy person, but the way the manuals are written and the course is structured makes the subjects a lot easier to understand and digest. Based on my progess so far I would thoroughly recommend Bristol,

Jimbo:D

P.S I am in no way associated with Bristol other than as a paying customer

[G SXTY]

Just sat the 1st 8 exams & passed them all – the combination of notes, CD-ROM, classroom tuition & feedback is superb. Most of the other pseudonyms on my course also got 8 straight passes. :ok:

[helicopter-redeye]

Dick,

I think you'll find that TruthMaster made the statement to which you refer, if you read back above.

rgds

h-r

[Sky Wave]

I was accused of being someone I wasn't buy someone called pseudonym66 :)
They later withdrew the post realising how stupid they were.

To all the synics, it's not difficult to work out. From what i've seen Bristol seem to get around 60 students a month through their doors. No one complains about them on PPrune. So either the Bristol students don't know PPrune exists and Alex comes up with loads of pseudonyms to make Bristol look good or perhaps there are a lot of satisfied customers out there who are innocently trying to let other wannabies know that BGS worked for them.

[Dick Whittingham]

My granny told me never to wrestle with a pig, for, she said, you will only get covered in mud, just like the pig.

So, my last word on this subject. Bristol does not post anything under pseudonyms. Alex and I post under our names. I know that no one loves a smartass, but the fact remains that we are a good school and our results stand and speak for themselves

Dick W

[stratotanker135]

Not sure about Bristol have met a few 'grumbles' but did they work hard enough who knows but I didn't like the notes looked like badly reproduced notes from old books I once studied. Lost interest in the place when I visited and there were too many students ended up going the GTS route and happy I did. First Time passes. Any how Truthmaster don't think Roger would like the "old." Tell you what those Bristol lot can't spell "astin"" synics" Heard your cheyenne/citation 500 truth check you PMs

[pseudonym66]

Glad to see you registered after all these years you can see the fun in all this for example check out GSXTY he registered in Nov 2000 thats 4 years ago with an amazing 531 posts does he really have a job or has he been studying for 4 years to get his 8 first time passes with all the super CD packages he bought. He must be really struggling down there in Bristols world of the mystical people to take 4 years to pass his first module. Truthmaster thanks for the call. Give me your job.

[helicopter-redeye]

I though Roger was the young one, or am I muddling them up??

:E :E

[no sponsor]

I have just completed the course at Bristol. In general they are good. A few things could be improved, but on the whole, it is good.

If anyone would like to know more, please PM me.

[pseudonym66]

something very Orwellian about Dick Whittinghams Farm.

[tu154]

i really struggle to understand why someone who hasn't attended a school, and is not involved in another school other than to have studied with that different school, would have such an interest in badmouthing the first school. sounds like someone with a vested interest to me.

[Alex Whittingham]

People tend to re-inforce their purchasing decision. If you buy a Fiesta you'll find yourself extolling the virtues of the Mondeo over the Vectra.

Truth is that GTS is a very good school and their instructors have been mainstays of the industry for years. We get on with them, they get on with us. Very few of their students come to us, we probably send slightly more to them because they can offer the private tuition that some customers need. We generally have more to do with London Guildhall, many students start off on distance learning and realise it doesn't suit, a similar sort of number come the other way.

[BitMoreRightRudder]

pseudonym66

any particular reason for the personal attack on GSXTY?

[Sky Wave]

Oops

Lucky we're not talking about spelling exams then isn't it. Perhaps Bristol wouldn't get as many first time passes that way. Nice to see that pseudonym66 has appeared again. stratotanker135 are you a real person or are you pseudonym66's imaginary friend?

[ChocksAwayUK]

Yay.. another bonkers thread on prune. These really brighten up my afternoon!

And why is that those that post under various different pseudonyms always put numbers after their username? Have they used up all the names available already?

[Keith.Williams.]

I do not believe that the large number of posts supporting BGS in this forum are the product of any skullduggery on the part of Alex and his staff. I suspect that they really are produced by happy BGS customers. But readers must be careful in intrepreting them.

It is probably the case that BGS send something in the region of 50 students to the exams each month. Betwen 5 and 10 of these students subsequently make posts indicating their success. Some readers interpret this as an indication that all BGS students pass all of their exams.

But if every BGS student who passes the exams posts the fact in this forum, then only about 20% are passing each month. I do not for one moment believe that the BGS pass rate is as low as this, but nor do I believe that 5 to 10 posts each month means that 50 students have passed.

The really strange thing is that almost no students from any of the other schools post their results. CAA statistics indicate that something like 120 students take the exams each month and about 80% of all exams taken each month are passed. This means that the vast majority of students who pass exams each month do not publish the fact in this forum.

It is inconceivable that all of the non BGS students are unhappy with their schools or their results. So why do so few make posts in this forum?

A number of recent posts in this forum have indicated that the good publicity enjoyed by BGS tends to induce ppruners to sign up as students with BGS. This could well explain the comparatively high rate of posts made by BGS students. The cycle may well be that supportive posts attract the type of students who are inclined to make posts. A proportion of these students then make further posts when they pass their exams. The cycle then continues with further ppruners signing up with BGS.

But does all of this prove that all or even most BGS students pass their exams? No it does not. It simply means that a comparatively large proportion (20%) of BGS students make posts in this forum. To put this into context, only 2 of the current EPTA students read pprune regularly and none make regular posts of any kind.

At this stage BGS supporters may well ask why there are few if any posts from unhappy BGS students who have failed their exams. If we consider the situation in which these students find themselves it is not difficult to see why they do not make such posts. Day after day they read the posts of successful BGS students. Upon failing their own exams or finding the distance learning route too difficult, they are unlikely to want to be be the lone voice in the wilderness, proclaiming their failure. But that does not mean that such failures do not exist nor even that they are rare.

[ChocksAwayUK]

Keith, graphs of Bristol's results in comparison to the national average are available for all to see on the Bristol website.

[EGCC4284]

http://jals.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=646

[High Wing Drifter]

Keith,

I think the point is not how many post with smilies, but how many have something negative to say. You would have thought that the school with most smilies would have the largest number of complaints too.

I think we can all agree that we seldom see any ground school gripes here so it is probably pretty safe to assume that most folk do as well as expected.

All,

I too urge you all to cop a butchers at the BGS graphs but it is important to understand that those graphs do not show 1st time passes, but passes for that sitting. Their value is that they show how well BGS performed against the average.

About 60% of the people I have kept in touch with passed all first time. Not exactly a representative sample!!!

Having said all that, I can't see what BGS could have improved upon. I think it shows that the ATPLs aren't a trivial exercise and that to simply sign up thinking it will go swimmingly is just wrong!

[Keith.Williams.]

High Wing Drifter
One of the points that I was making is that students who fail the exams or drop out of the course are unlikely to want to announce the fact. And an unsuccessful BGS student faced with the great many posts glorifying BGS, is likely to feel that he or she is the only one who has failed. Their reluctance to go public will therefore be even stronger.

It should also be noted that there very few posts in which students have complained about a groundschool in which he or she has actually studied. All posts criticising the EPTA groundschool for example, have come from Send Clowns, Alex and (the tranvestite stalker) Peggy Murphy.


ChocksAwayUK
EPTA results together with the National averages are also displayed in EPTA. I suspect most schools do so.

But we must be very careful in interpreting these statistics. Do the BGS stats include the students who have dropped out for example. Or those who have failed exams, then taken consolidation training at other schools before passing.

EPTA regularly take such students from a variety of schools and to date every one has subsequently passed the exams. But none of these passes appear in the EPTA stats because the students remain registered with their original schools.

Another problem with such stats is illustrated by the case of an OATS student who joined EPTA. After studying at OATs for three years (yes three years) the student had not been permitted to take any JAR exams. After two months at EPTA that student passed half of the exams taken. The three year period with no exam attempts did not appear in the OATS pass rates. But the fact that three exams had been failed at EPTA reduced the EPTA first time pass rate. But which school provided the greatest service to that student?

I have no idea what BGS pass rates are, so I will not comment upon them. All I am saying is that readers must be very careful in interpreting statistics and pprune posts announcing exam successes.

If the statistics issued by all of the schools are true then something like 570% of students pass all of their exams first time.

[Alex Whittingham]

I have to say, Keith, that comments about a lady's sexuality and appearance reflect very badly on you, no matter how much you might disagree with her views. I really think you should edit your last post.

[Delta Wun-Wun]

I attended BGS in March 2001 and finished by Sept 2002. Did I pass all First time?...no...Failed two in the first module and one in the second......Would I go back to them if I had to do it all over again......Yes.
I due to personal circumstances could only do Distance Learning. I drew up a short list of schools and went to visit them. I liked the way BGS was set up so signed up. I was more than happy with the service I recieved and very impressed with the way the school was run.

[stratotanker135]

Wish I was Pseudo 66 have you seen his wife. Back to the Icelandic T.V ads

[Keith.Williams.]

ALEX,

As we are both aware peggy murphy is in fact a rather large irishman who flies for Ryanair. My use of the term tranvestite is a reference to his choice of a female pseudoyn when making posts in this forum. But of course you are also aware of that.

Your attempt to create a smokescreen to divert attention from the matter being discussed is a bit feeble even by the standards of your recent posts. I notice that one of your recent contributions to another thread in this forum had to be largely deleted when even you realised how outrageous it was. I do wonder sometimes why the owner of an apparently successful business feels the need to make such posts.

[helicopter-redeye]

This is better than the volcanic mud wrestling on IslandTV

:E

[Dick Whittingham]

Poor Keith, it's cruel really, but we were laughing at you

Dick W

[Keith.Williams.]

Thanks for that Dick.

Now would you like to comment on the matter being discussed, or will you just stick to smokescreens like Alex is doing?

Do you think that the few posts from BGS students announcing that they have passed their exams each month really mean that all of your students have done so?

Or is it, as I have stated, simply an indication that some have passed and those who have failed do not wish to publicise their failure?

Do your published statistics include the students who find distance learning too hard and give up?

Or do you not bother with these students?

Some of your students have subsequently moved on to EPTA where they have completed their training successfully through a full time course. But because they did not pass all of their exams first time they have reduced our first-time pass rates. But which school gave them the best service? The one from which they dropped out or the one that got them through their exams?

Do your statistics show those students who had to take consolidation from other schools before passing?

Or do you not bother with this small detail?

Alex has on a number of occasions implied that statistics published by schools are suspect. The unwritten message he wished to convey was of course that only BGS statistics could be relied upon. If you are prepared to give honest answers to questions like those above, we might perhaps see that BGS figures are no more and no less reliable than those of any other school.

As I said previously, I do not know what BGS pass rates are, so I will not comment upon them. But I do feel that there is a need to look a bit closer at what exactly the posts from BGS students mean.

But you and Alex do not appear to be at all keen on this. I wonder why that is.

[Megaton]

I passed all exams at first attempt with Bristol and can actually remember enough from their notes and lectures to have been recently offered a job. I think that just because some students choose to recommend their school does not neccessarily imply that there is some sort of dirty tricks campaign or conspiracy. I was directed towards BGS as a result of recommendations and I would unreservedly recommend them myself. BGS are an excellent school. Can we move on?

[Dick Whittingham]

Keith, you are becoming a compulsive/obsessive. The results we publish are the CAA results, as issued. We make no claim beyond that. Nor have we ever claimed that posts here have any significance beyond that of students individual views. All of this is in the public domain and perfectly clear to all prospective students. We do not manipulate posts, nor post ourselves using pseudonyms.

You have a bee in your bonnet and you imply continually the we are somehow manipulating these posts and figures to falsify our achievement. Read carefully. We do not. It is all in your mind.

Get off our backs and try to behave like an adult, and not a spoilt child. We run a good school. See if you can help your school to do better.

You are a figure of fun, but there is an evil side to your snide remarks. Go read some of the trash you have posted and think again.

Dick W

[BitMoreRightRudder]

Keith,

The meaning behind the posting of good reviews on BGS is simple.

A person (who shall remain nameless) pays their money in anticipation of a sevice, goes to BGS, receives said anticipated service and goes home happy they got their moneys worth. If they have worked hard while at Bristol the likelihood is they will pass their exams.

Someone then starts a thread on pprune asking for opinions on BGS. Our hero from the paragraph above notices said thread, and replies - 'Bristol are a good school', or along the lines of.

The moral of the story, and the hidden meaning of all similar posts - Bristol are a good school.

[Alex Whittingham]

Peggy Murphy is a bloke? You can't rely on anything nowadays.

[redsnail]

Alex,
You know me. :E
You know the big aussie fella. He reckons your school's one of the best he's ever seen. He knocked off 14 JAR ATPL exams in 2 months. Ok, he was hung over or asleep in some of the lectures but he still maintains you guys are pretty good.
He would answer this himself but he's on earlies. (orange 737 mob)
Cheers
:ok:

[Deano777]

Keith

Who gives a rat's ar*e whether all the statistics have been published or not? afterall BGS are releasing into the public domain no more or no less than any other GS, end of the day if you are going to spend money on something then word of mouth goes a long way in ensuring you are spending it in the right area, it's the same as employing somebody, no matter how good they are at the interview, or how well they come across, or how well they do in pre employment exams etc who knows who or what you are taking on but if someone or some people recommend them this goes a long way.
Im starting with BGS in Jan /Feb (they don't know it yet :) ) and the reason I chose BGS over and above say OAT is due to the fact that alot of people have taken the time to give feedback on this forum (coupled with the fact that I dont live a horendous distance from them) and as you say, I can't remember seeing copious amounts of feedback from any other Ground School provider.

D.

[Haul By Cable]

I live a hell of a long way away and still chose BGS after researching them on PPRuNe, Delta Wun Wun's experience is pretty much the same as mine - I failed one exam (by 1 Q) first mod and then 2 (again by 1 Q each) on the second mod. I only have myself to blame though!

After reading other PPRuNers' glowing success stories with BGS I admit I felt a bit down and didn't bother posting after I finished the exams (even though I got a 90% average with the other 11 1st time passes).

However, I really must say that I absolutely made the right choice of school. These guys are the bees knees when it comes to getting you through these exams. The collective knowledge and professional experience of these people is staggering.

I also enjoyed my time there immensely :ok:

I admit this thread is getting better than mud wrestling as a spectator sport ;) but Keith, Alex and Dick - you guys are really not doing yourselves any favours right now. Bearing in mind it was PPRuNe that helped me choose BGS for my study, and spend rather a lot of cash on books from Mr Williams (all good!), I'm not sure prospective students will be impressed by some of the comments you have been making to each other. I'm sorry to say it would put me off.

Haul.

[Andy_R]

I must agree with the above sentiment. None of you are doing yourselves any favours by bickering openly in public.

[Keith.Williams.]

I find it quite fascinating, but entirely predictable, that to even suggest that readers look carefully at this matter is inerpreted as an attack on BGS. It most certainly is not.

This string started with a reader asking for views on BGS. After 3 supportive replies, he decided to do his training there. This suggests that far too little thought is being given to the significance of such posts. I have no problem with people choosing to do their training at BG. But I do believe that they should look very carefully at the matter before choosing any school, including BGS.

Truthmaster then suggested that BGS actually creates supportive posts by using a range of pseudonyms. In my first post I disagreed with him, and stated that:

"I do not believe that the large number of posts supporting BGS in this forum are the product of any skullduggery on the part of Alex and his staff. I suspect that they really are produced by happy BGS customers. But readers must be careful in intrepreting them."

I then went on to suggest that the whole subject required more thought. This is not an attack on anyone, but merely stating what should be blindingly obvious.

Dick Whitingham (after indulging in a little personal abuse) then stated that:

"You have a bee in your bonnet and you imply continually the we are somehow manipulating these posts and figures to falsify our achievement. Read carefully. We do not. It is all in your mind."

This is quite simply the opposite to what I have done. As illustrated above, I actually stated that I do not believe that BGS is manipulating posts. I also stated that:

"we might perhaps see that BGS figures are no more and no less reliable than those of any other school. "

BitMoreRightRudder
Your comments are entirely logical as far as they go, but you have failed to look at the wider picture. As I stated earlier, virtually all posts supporting schools in this forum refer to BGS. If we use your logic then this means that only BGS produces happy successful customers. Even a little thought should make you realise that this cannot be true. A little more thought might then bring you to consider what it is about BGS students (note that I use the term BGS students and not BGS) that makes them more disposed to make posts, than those of all of the other schools put together. I do not claim to have the definitive answer to this question. All I am suggesting is that the question exists and readers should consider it.

Deano, then stated:
"afterall BGS are releasing into the public domain no more or no less than any other GS,"

Yes Deano, that is exactly my point. The BGS statistics are no more and no less reliable or informative than those of any other school.


Those readers who feel that my cotributions to this string have been an attack on BGS should go back to the start and read them all again.

All that I have been suggesting is that readers should look very carefully at the meanings of posts in this forum and should recognise the fact that none of the statistics produced by any of the schools are any more or less reliable than those of their competitors.

If PrecisionLandings turns out to a successful BGS students then that is fine. But if he finds distance learning to difficult or the class sizes at BGS too large, then he might well wish that he had given the matter rather more thought before making his decision.

[Deano777]

Keith

I'm in no way implying that you are attacking BGS, I'm not even saying I disagree with your comments because I do not, what you are saying is absolutely spot on, I just think maybe your reading into this whole affair too deeply, if no students from other GS providers can be bothered (for whatever reason) to post positive feedback here then thats not BGS's fault (I know your not implying it is).
I do think if Precisionlandings has decided to go with BGS on a mere 3 replies of positive feedback that this is a little irresponsible, I did a comprehensive search on BGS on these forums and read the posts over a day (yes there are quite a number of positive replies) and I also browsed the CD they offer before making a decision, it was a tossup between OAT & BGS and BGS came out trumps.
Your spot on what you say but if the only feedback we get here is mainly from BGS students what more can one do?

D.

[helicopter-redeye]

It's been fascinating to watch this artillery duel (an almost exact repeat of one a couple of weeks ago) and, no doubt, a repeat of ones that have happened before.

I expect that the same question that started it will come up again in a couple of week’s time too.

What happens in the rest of the world is that there is an independent report by an independent analysts firm that gives all the facts and everybody can agree with because it is independent.

It would also save a lot of people repeating the same set of research week after week so would be a great service to the potential customers (of them all) as well.

At the end of the day, it is a fair bet that most of the GS supervised by the CAA are pretty good so the deciding factor will be what is right for the individual student.


h-r


:hmm:

[BitMoreRightRudder]

Keith

I'm not looking at the bigger picture because I fail to see one. I know a lot of ex Bristol students through my FTO, and others from attending the brush up courses. The vast majority passed their exams first time and every single person was more than satisfied with the tuition and support they received. I have never met an unhappy ex BGS student.

Bristol have deservedly built up a reputation of being a good school.

I am not suggesting that the other ground school providers are in any way inferior to BGS. They do seem to get more good press on these pages than any other school, but that good press is not without foundation.

What is it about BGS students that makes them more disposed to make posts? I can only suggest that it is satisfaction with Bristol's product, coupled with the fact that there seem to be more requests for opinions on BGS than most other schools.


If you receive good service, you tell people about it. That is all that is happening here.

[ChocksAwayUK]

For those who are interested in an explanation of the results charts, Alex has posted details on the Jals forum.

http://www.jals.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?p=2568#post2568

What the stats include


First of all the stats are for ATPL(A) not (H), mainly because there aren't enough helicopter students for the results to be statistically significant, although they're obviously very significant for people that take them.

The stats come straight from the CAA, unedited. They include all exams taken by candidates who have their applications signed off by us, that is to say all our 'normal' students, all our re-sits and students who have completed what the CAA call 'remedial training' with us after coming from another school. They don't include certain military pilots and some pilots converting foreign ATPLs who don't need to do approved courses and who can apply for the exams without our sign-off. They would not include students who started training with us then completed their training and got signed off for the exams elsewhere or students from other schools that do a bit of one-to-one with Ken or Baz.

[High Wing Drifter]

Keith,

A little more thought might then bring you to consider what it is about BGS students (note that I use the term BGS students and not BGS) that makes them more disposed to make posts, than those of all of the other schools put together. I do not claim to have the definitive answer to this question. All I am suggesting is that the question exists and readers should consider it.
I think we all do consider it. The reasons I think that BGS students post their happiness is simply that BGS as a whole is very p-proon aware, with a terminal set-up that students log onto during breaks. Not to mention that there are a fair number of students. The whole setup exudes high sprits and good nature with many people keeping in contact with each other and knowing each other's p-proon handles. I think it a genuine comment to say that everything about the BGS experience is positive.

This is not meant to say that other schools are not the same, but that is my reasoning. If you want the definitive answer I suggest the other schools start looking inward.

[Haul By Cable]

Keith I feel I must reply again now, and reinforce what Deano777, BMRR and HWD have said above.

Up to the point of my last post I felt that you, Alex and Dick all had valid comments but now you really are standing out as having an axe to grind or a bad case of sour grapes. I do not know if you are independent or work for a ground school provider (perhaps EPTA?).
I find it quite fascinating, but entirely predictable, that to even suggest that readers look carefully at this matter is inerpreted as an attack on BGS. It most certainly is not.
... I think you must be a bit miffed at BGS really otherwise you wouldn't view posts like mine as suggesting you're attacking BGS - thou protesteth too much.

At the end of the day, what the hell does it matter if people choose to go to BGS as a result of comments on PPRuNe? They won't be disappointed. Give students a bit of credit for intelligence- you have to have some in this game. Most sane adults listen to other peoples' experiences, contact a school themselves and then make their own minds up.

If this bothers you why don't you do what most schools do (if you indeed do work for one, I'm not sure) and recommend your students to pass the word around if they had a good experience - trust me, bad news travels a hell of a damn site faster than good!!

Take a step back and have a think about it.

By they way, I thought the binders I bought from you were really good, don't go ruining your own business by making a fuss about somebody elses.

Kind regards,

Haul.

P.S. Incase this post really get's your blood-up even more, I want to make it clear that I have read this thread through more than once and I do understand your point. I just thought you and Dick should know better.

[Keith.Williams.]

Nothing in this string has "got my blood up". I have read and contributed to it in an entirely dispassionate manner.

Judging by recent posts I have even achieved my objective in that some readers and contributers have finally taken a closer look at the reasons for the high rate of good press for BGS in this forum.

Some have even come to realise that this is at least to some extent due to:

a. BGS encouraging students to make such posts.

and

b. A larger than normal proportion of BGS students being regular pprune posters.

We have also obtained recognition that BGS statistics are no more or less valid than those of any other school. I am sure that this comes as something of a surprise to many readers.

[Gin Slinger]

Regarding Keith's point A), I was a very happy customer of BGS and am quite happy to endorse them on PPRuNe, however it was never suggested I should do so. In fact, the only mention of PPRuNe during my total of 4 weeks study by the BGS management was by Alex mentioning in passing he researched a technical point through the Tech forum.

I'm not sure about Keith's point B) either. I find no evidence that BGS customers are more or less likely to PPRuNe. You may find more endorsements on PPRuNe than any other groundschool, but this is down to:-

i) With the possible exception of Oxford, BGS get more people through their ATPLs than any other groundschool. They are the market leader.

ii) The product is excellent. The manuals are very well written and printed. I can't comment about the CD-ROM, as this was only still in an embryonic state during my ATPLs. The no-nonsense teaching style during the brush-up sessions is just the ticket. BGS's bank of feedback was pretty comprehensive during my time and has likely improved further.

iii) Alex and the team are a friendly, down to earth bunch and don't foster a pretentious atmosphere like some other training providers.

Just to be even handed, I have used some of EPTA's services, and was very impressed with the MCC in particular.

[EGCC4284]

Hello Keith.Williams

I've been a student of Bristol's since November 2001, yes 2001.

Because of doing shift work at Manchester Airport and doing an average
50 - 60 hours a week, I found it difficult to get up to my study reading.
At one point I actually stop studying for about a year.

I decided to get a grip of things a crack on from where I had left off.

I sat the module 1 brush up in Jan 2004, exams February and failed Gen Nav and Met.

Resat and passed Met in May, failed Gen Nav for a 2nd time by 2%.

Started mod 2 correspondence and sat mod 2 brush up in September 2004

Exams October, failed Principles of flight.

Will be resitting Gen Nav and POF December 6th and 8th 2004.

Who do I blame??? me.

Would I of done it any different??? no, I can't afford to give up work.

Would I recommend BGS??? yes yes yes yes yes yes.

Did I give up??? no.

Do I have any issues about BGS that I'm not happy with??? no.

Can I comment about any other school??? no.

Just one question Keith, do you work for, EPTA or OAT.

[ChocksAwayUK]

???

We have also obtained recognition that BGS statistics are no more or less valid than those of any other school. I am sure that this comes as something of a surprise to many readers.

I can only presume that this is irony. I don't think anyone ever questioned the validity of any school's results except you..and your query has been proved unwarranted.

[Sky Wave]

What a load of rubbish.

BGS never encouraged anyone to post on PPRuNe whilst I was there.

High Wing Drifter said that BGS was very PPRuNe aware and indeed I learnt about PPRuNe whilst I was there on Module 2. It was other students who told me about it, not BGS staff.

The terminal is indeed available for anyone to use but whilst I was there students were using it to check their email accounts and flights home, coupled with a few laugh's on SimRadar, I don't recall PPRuNe being visited.

If you put 5 wannabies who are aware of PPRuNe in the mess room with 40 other wannabies then PPRuNe is likely to come up in conversation and the good word will spread.

Why Keith and Alex need to argue with each other all the time is beyond me. Both schools are aimed at different markets. I live in Bournemouth but I didn't even consider EPTA because I have a huge mortgage to pay so I had to keep working, therefore full time groundschool was not an option. I did not consider a distance course from Bournemouth either as I figured that there would be too many distractions during the brush up, therefore being stuck in a B & B in Somerset seemed the best option. I was also advised by the CFI at my flying school that Bristol were a good groundschool and BGS came out on top for me after I’d looked at all the different options.

The subject of large classes at BGS keeps getting thrown around by Keith. I don't see that it matters how large the class is so long as each individual’s questions get answered. The instructors will stay behind after class for as long as is required in order to make sure that the student is happy with the subject. The instructors even give out their home phone numbers in case of panic attacks after the brush up has finished.

I keep supporting Bristol as I was very happy with their service. They enabled me to get 14 first time passes with an average of 93%. I've been out of full time education for 11 years, I got below average grades at GCSE and I failed my BTEC ONC in Electrical and Electronic engineering which I attended on day release from my apprenticeship. By my reckoning that makes BGS a good bet and I would recommend them to anyone. Had I of studied at another groundschool and been just as impressed I would obviously be writing about them now.

It annoys me when you get people like pseudonym66 abusing this system. His first ever post is "No not Bristol" when he didn't even go there. He likes GTS, so fine tell us about GTS, show us some students who got good results (preferably not more first time posting pseudonyms) and maybe people will consider them over Bristol.

Let's try and answer people’s questions about groundschools with honest opinions of students who have actual experience and keep the fighting between schools out of these threads.

Wow I'll climb down off of my soapbox now.

SW :)

[High Wing Drifter]

I have read and contributed to it in an entirely dispassionate manner.
It really isn't comming across like that.

Some have even come to realise that this is at least to some extent due to:
a. BGS encouraging students to make such posts.BGS encouraging students to make such posts.
Nay! Nay! And thrice nay! That is not what was said by me ot anybody else. Absolutely nobody at BGS has, to my knowledge, ever asked this of anybody.

I have no idea what BGS pass rates are, so I will not comment upon them. All I am saying is that readers must be very careful in interpreting statistics and pprune posts announcing exam successes.
As is the case with all schools, including Keith's, no matter how the information is sourced.

Why Keith and Alex need to argue with each other all the time is beyond me.
Well said. Trouble is that now this thread seems to have a momentum all of his own now.

I vote it is best to draw a line underneath this thread and let Keith and Alex answer peoples ATPL queries without getting into a ruck.

[helicopter-redeye]

He likes GTS, so fine tell us about GTS, show us some students who got good results (preferably not more first time posting pseudonyms) and maybe people will consider them over Bristol.


Did somebody call?

[BillieBob]

Keith,

As a dispassionate observer with no connection to any groundschool provider in any capacity, I have to say that your credibility is weakening with each post you make. I am reminded of a sage piece of advice given to me many years ago -

When you find yourself in a hole - Stop Digging!!

[BitMoreRightRudder]

I would like to re-iterate what others have said regarding Keith's suggestion that Bristol ask students to post here extolling the school's greatness. BGS at no point during my visit requested any such thing, indeed pprune was mentioned once by Alex in relation to the tech forum on exactly the same point as was mentioned by Gin Slinger. That was it.

At the risk of repeating myself (yet again) Bristol are good enough at what they do to warrant praise without the need to employ underhand tactics. This thread is an evergrowing testament to that fact.

[geardowntogodown]

i have ben through the hoops in terms of education, a first from a top university in the uk and a commendation in post graduate studies so i would like to think that i know a thing or two about being taught - bristol have it sorted, no-one has asked me to post this and yes i even had to re-sit gen nav & met, but that was my fault not bristol's. Bristol's pass rates are higher than the national average and hanging out at cheddar after a hard weeks study is all good. Praise given where praise is due...piss of piss :)

[heathrow hawk]

Did a search for an old friend and this popped up thought that some new atpls would like to have a read.all good fun!!

[Patty O'Doors]

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I have read and contributed to it in an entirely dispassionate manner.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


It really isn't comming across like that.


Chroist talk about an understatement. Oi have a mental picture of Keith sat belting away at his computer with one hand while throwing darts at a BGS poster with the other or vice versa.

Oh and Keith, tanks for warning me off Peggy, I was just about to start a great lesbian affair with her, and now it turns out she/he just wants to get in me drawers, and rifle me assets (pardon the pun)

Anyway, must go and post another Dick Whittingham post slagging off Keith, oh sh:mad: te Oive given the game away ;)

You lot need to calm down just have a noice cup of tea, ah go on!!