Smoking ban in the Mess?

[YellowBelly]

Now we have had the Goverment's 'way ahead' regarding smoking, will we be able to designate the Officers' and SNCO Messes as 'private clubs' to avoid being subjected to the will of an Orwellian socialist nanny state?
For those who would welcome a ban on smoking, believe its worth bearing in my mind that this is just the start of things to come - not too far down the 'health scare' list is alcohol abuse!

[tradewind]

Fair point, but I'd rather stand next to a drunken idiot at the bar than a drunken idiot (or sober one for that matter) puffing cigar smoke in my face.

[Small Spinner]

I think the main point is in order to save the poor steward and barmen / women from having to breath in passive smoke.

90% of the stuff this Government interfere in I disagree with, however on smoking I'm all for it.

[Hueymeister]

Here, here!

I work in an environment where more smoke than not..and there's no legislation to curb it. We non-puffers have to leave the comfortable, warm but smoke-filled crewroom, and go into an unheated room with wood-rot! Great huh?

[YellowBelly]

Hueymeister - at least you have shelter from the elements - the vast majority of smokers have to indulge their habit outside, regardless of the weather. Or will that be banned too, in case we catch too many colds.... looking for the cotton wool to wrap myself up in....

[BEagle]

There's a year or two before this becomes law, so why not start now by banning smoking on ALL training courses?

Knocking this vile habit out of all newcomers would be one thing, but for the committed addict it's not so easy.

Thoughts?

[littleme]

I agree. I am not currently serving in the the forces (I hope to one day) but have spent a lot of time in the (RAF) Officers mess, and the amount of pilots in particular that seem to smoke is phenominal! Each to their own I guess, but when it comes to health and fitness and the amount of money that is spent on them, one wonder's if they would be the best/most investable people for the job... :confused:

LM

[joe2812]

one wonder's if they would be the best/most investable people for the job...

That's a tad harsh I think! It can be as simple as a drag as a teenager and you're hooked for life... granted people should try and kick the habit (coming from a 17-year-old ex-smoker, it can be done), however it is exceedingly hard.

Looking also at people 30-40, times where different in the 70's and 80's, the dangers weren't aswell known and smoking wasn't seen in such a bad light.

On the other side of the coin however, those who have chosen not to smoke should be free to avoid this habit of others, without having to move outside/next door to get away from it.

Given the choice, i'd rather have the smokers (those who have chosen to pollute themselves) outside, as supposed to those who aren't getting any say in what's polluting their bodies due to the guy 2 seats down lighting up.

[Grobbler]

Surely these government sanctioned anti-smoking rules will have as little place as licensing laws within the mess.

[littleme]

Joe

....as I said each to their own...just a suggestion!

Not an OASC candidate by any chance applying for pilot?? Well rehearsed answer mate...

Good luck! ;)

[joe2812]

I'll have you know that was not rehearsed! You should hear my 'homosexuals in the RAF' answer... now theres rehearsal ;)

Cheers,

[PPRuNeUser0172]

To the original poster, the sooner they ban smoking in public places the better, end of story. I feel that your reference to "alcohol abuse" is a little contrived.....someone else being drunk in the bar does not pose a direct health risk to anyone else in the bar, whereas passive smoking does. Fair enough, people who do drink to excess cause different problems but rarely anything that cant be sorted out by removing said individual to his/her room.

I dont think it is unnecessary govt intervention, in fact I think it is one of their more sensible social policies, smoking is anti social for the vast majority, particularly in the services who dont partake. Whilst currently living somewhere where smoking is banned in public places, it makes for a much more pleasant evening not being in a smokey bar and waking up to find that your clothes dont stink of someone elses fags.....rant over

DS

[reynoldsno1]

Surely these government sanctioned anti-smoking rules will have as little place as licensing laws within the mess.

Not so. As I understand it, the UK law will apply to workplaces. NZ s about to impement laws banning smoking in workplaces on 10 Dec - that includes "private" clubs - in fact, anywhere a person is going about their lawful employment. Don't have a problem myself, and will probably frequent licensed premises more frequently as a result....

[saudipc-9]

Smoking has been banned here in public places in Moose Jaw for a while now both in town and also in the Mess. I don't mind the ban at all. The smokers just go outside and have a puff while the rest of us can have a drink without the smoky atmosphere. There was some grumbling to start with, but that has died down and it's ops normal now.

[Blacksheep]

A proper Gentlemen's Cub has a smoking room. Those using it are also expected to dress appropriately in a smoking jacket. On special occasions such as Dining In nights, smoking may also be permitted in the ante-room once the port has been passed.
Are Messes attracting a socially inferior class of member these days? Eh, What?

[Spugford]

Smoking has been banned here in public places in Moose Jaw for a while now both in town and also in the Mess.

You mean you've actually found the Mess open in Moose Jaw?!! I was under the impression both smoking and drinking had been banned in there, other than when Friday falls on the Sabbath!

Latest daily low temp.?

[4fitter]

I'm a smoker. Our mess is non-smoking and it isn't an issue. Actually quite nice to have a drink in a clean environment and when I feel the need for a tab I just pop outside onto the patio. Smokers and non-smokers both have rights except I respect that I shouldn't blow my stuff on others.

[invertron]

Good point about the drinking as well. In the RN we positively support drinking. Anyone who has been or served on a ship will have noticed that the mess is dominated by a bar. We are expected to live in the bar - thats our home !!!! And the Junior ratings fare even worse when they are presented with 3 cans of DF beer a day....!!!

............................................................ ...............................

[Sgt.Peppeh]

YellowBelly: you made a point here that`s got me thinking re: alcohol abuse. Jeeez ! how the hell are we to steady our nerves when the going gets going ? Tell that to the Russians and you`ll be shot.
Good Visionary Forecaste (GVF) :ok:

4fitter RE: Smokers and non-smokers both have rights except I respect that I shouldn\'t blow my stuff on others. Yeah..fitter,I quite agree with you,problem is who should leave the room ? I think pprune will agree that you leave and go outside for fresh air as you are the complainant.
Cheers.

hope it`s not raining,you`ll have to take a brolly with you & should it get flooded you`ll need your wellies and don`t forget to take them off before you go...beware the rudderman,when the moon is very fat.

[BigGrecian]

Smoking has been banned across a number of messes already. In most cases a senior member of the mess (normally the Stn Cdr or an Exec) proposes the action at an AGM, and its been carried in every mess I can think of!
When it comes to the vote it gets carried by a large majority - it hasn't affected the mess at all.(In fact it makes some people come out more now its smoke free) However, the smokers did have to go outside in the rain before the little smokers area was created!
:D

[ZH875]

But if everyone who smokes stops, will we be able to afford petrol and beer when Herr Chancellor raises the taxes on these items to replace the lost revenue from tobacco.

[X-QUORK]

"But if everyone who smokes stops, will we be able to afford petrol and beer when Herr Chancellor raises the taxes on these items to replace the lost revenue from tobacco."

Yep, it's called the Baccy Dividend. Less people needing triple by-pass operations, chemotherapy, intensive care = NHS cost savings.

[StudentInDebt]

One would consider that the estimated 1.5 billion per annum the NHS spends treating smoking related diseases to be a drop in the ocean compared to the £8.1 billion the treasury receives in tobacco tax revenue.

The smokers own the NHS!! :D

[buoy15]

Dirty Sanchez - "Someone being drunk in the bar does not pose a threat to someone else in the bar"

True, unless you lock someone in his room because he's drunk - who then decides he wants more, and climbs out of his window, forgetting he's on the 1st floor and lands on someone leaving the bar - as happened at ISK a few of years ago! Fortunately, both were non-smokers, so no real harm was done.

Love many, Trust a few, Always paddle your own canoe:ouch:

[SirPeterHardingsLovechild]

StudentInDebt

Unless you're on Duty Free's :}

[4fitter]

buoy 15

Caveat that hope nobody was seriously injured !
Laughed so much got to get a little man to clean the computer screen. :ok:

[PPRuNeUser0172]

Thanks for that tenuous link bouy, although a little unfortunate for all concerned, I think that my point still stands though.........

Regards

DS

[YellowBelly]

Interesting views raised, but the main point intended was that it is the 'nanny state' that is introducing the change - not the collective will of the general public. No one can realistically argue for smoking in public places - the dangers are too well documented. However, those that are now smugly agreeing with the intended smoking ban will get a nasty shock when this government' attention turns to something that adversely effects them (eg. alcohol intake, diet, contact sports, sex (if different from the previous), country pursuits, competetive spirit at schools etc etc etc). As per my original post, this is just the start and do not fool yourselves otherwise - the government has merely selected the easiest target first.

[L J R]

Yellow Belly, are you hinting that one day the govt may ban sex in the Officers' Mess Bar...

[Eagle 270]

L J R
Yellow Belly, are you hinting that one day the govt may ban sex in the Officers' Mess Bar...

Only between male and female......

[flyboy007]

Why not make smoking illegal in this country all together then?? Because we smokers pay far too much tax for the Govt to manage without, that's why (Well actually I don't thanks to DF. In fact I save about £3.50 every pack I smoke). We need more support for the smoker in this world. I feel discriminated against. I'm off for a cigarette.

[StudentInDebt]

One is informed that approximately £3billion or revenue was lost in the tax year 2002/2003 due to importation of duty paid tobacco. I would be unable to say whether that includes duty free sales or not.

Of course, there is an additional revenue stream for the government from cigarettes thanks to VAT.

[Nigerian Expat Outlaw]

Can't we just be segregated ? If I want to kill myself (albeit slowly and painfully), at my own expense regardless of who gets what money surely I should at least be permited to do it in relative comfort, i.e. holding a pint:(

[wishtobflying]

Here's a quick Google for Chronic Obstructive Pulmonary Disease

http://www.google.com.au/search?hl=en&q=copd+chronic+obstructive+pulmonary&btnG=Google+Search&meta=

One quote:
Quitting smoking is the only strategy that has so far been shown to reduce the rate of decline in lung function in patients with COPD.
ANYTHING that reduces my exposure to inhaling poison is a Good Thing. If you want to kill yourself, you are quite welcome to step outside and kill yourself in private. Please do not involve me in your self-abuse.

Cheers,

wishtobflying

[SirPeterHardingsLovechild]

http://www.zombi.dk/images/allads/005a.jpg

[Blacksheep]

I'm a smoker. I haven't had a cigarette since 1983 but I'm still a smoker - I gave up once before but stupidly tried a ciggie after going three years without, so I have no illusions about what can happen as a result of a single drag on a fag. So I sympathise with all the other smokers. If they told me tomorrow that I had only six months to live, the first thing I'd do is buy a packet of B & H and a lighter.

Whatever happened to smoking rooms? Why should smokers have to go outside in the cold to indulge in their own particular bad habit? In Singapore they banned smoking in public places and at Changi airport they had a tiny sin-bin room for smokers to indulge, during transits between no-smoking flights. Then some enterprising businessman came up with the idea of a smokers-only bar. Now the smokers can have a beer or stronger while they indulge their habit in the company of fellow smokers and the enterprising entrepreneur is a millionaire - and lets face it, why the hell not?

Tolerance brothers, tolerance.

[Vage Rot]

I don't care where the smokers decide to do their dirty deed and I respect their right to contract all forms of cancer. However, No smoking in enclosed public places/workplace means that I don't have to breathe in their dirty effluent.

Bout time I say! Now go stand outside the classroom and you can smoke away!

[tier2commando]

With pay as you dine all the mess bar staff will be provided by the catering company. Therefore smoking will be banned on health and safety grounds. However when bar prices will be competitve with local public house prices ( £2.50+ per pint) the mess bars will be empty anyway, so its irrelevant if smoking becomes banned to mess members.

[ArmyBarmy]

EGM at Kinloss last night voted for outright smoking ban in all public rooms with immediate effect- apart from dining in nights when is perfectly acceptable to puff on the old Havana!

[buoy15]

Eagle 270
It's possible the Govt could ban shafting on the snooker table if you are playing billiards with 2 white balls!!:D

Transport is on the way, Your cheque is in the bank, I won't come in your ***** etc,

Love Many, Trust a few, Always paddle your own canoe!!

[buoy15]

flyboy 07
Another approach
A small section of about 50 personell - 10 smoke
Evey 40 minutes-ish the smokers have a fag break for about 10 mins
8 hour day = 8x10x10 =800mins = just over 13 hrs per day in lost production.
This occurs in all sections of every RAF, RN , Army and Civil Service unit every day
Based on RAF salaries, this averages for 1 section about £250 a day!!
How can Service boss's in particular, and industry in general, be expected to pick up this tab.

"I see no ships" - Horatio Nelson

"Only Hardhips" - Tony Bliar

Love many, Trust a few, Always paddle your own canoe!!

[zedder]

Wasting thousands of £s in lost productivity is obviously not considered when it comes to CCS, IDT and IRT. You do a session in the CS Chamber during CCS, but it has to be repeated in IDT. You watch the ROE film, but then still have to watch it again. You do the pistol handling drills on CCS, but don't fire the thing; even when you are coached over to the CS Chamber and the Firing Range is right next door! You then fire it on one of the other courses.

If ever an empire has expanded beyond control and without good reason, it is RAF Regt training. It's complete :mad:

[In Tor Wot]

I sense a small dose of irony here:

http://www.caa.co.uk/dap/environment/default.asp?page=52

Having dumped several tonnes of cr@p into the atmosphere on a daily basis we then have a discussion about the amount of damage generated by a packet of B+H . . . . . . and no I don't like smokey bars either, and I do smoke. :ouch:



P.S. When trying to calculate time 'wasted' by smokers and wishing to ban it, does the same apply to 2Gp? Considering the number of man-years wasted in the Goatway-terminal shuffle at Brize on every flight they must be costing a fortune and should be made more 'economic' immediately!

:ok:

[Always_broken_in_wilts]

Only a smoker could come up with that sort of argument:rolleyes:

Whilst I hate the routine of coming back from a night out, then having to put everything I am wearing in the laundry basket, or having to move seats in the pub to avoid the inevitable smoke that always drifts my way I believe there is a far more sinister point to all this.

We know that smoking kills.

We know that passive smoking kills innocent folk.

So how can smokers look themselves in the mirror, let alone argue "human rights" blah, when they know that their arrogance, selfish manner and disgusting habit KILLS INNOCENT FOLK :}

Ban it everywhere and BAN IT NOW!

all spelling mistakes are "df" alcohol induced

Look forward to the inevitable justification of why taking innocent lives in this selfish manner is acceptable :mad:

[Eagle 270]

Basic summary. I smoke the odd cigar. (I.e. a cigar shaped like a Latvian school girl, that’s very odd!).

I do not agree that in an enclosed space, a non smoker should have to put up with a smokers 'hobby'. Mixed environment aint good, ask Roy Castle if you can.

What I have a problem with is the oberfuhrer attitude that is this government has in railroading what is essentially manners and common sense.

If a smoker is doing his devil like deed in your presence and you object, tell him to desist or move away? I don’t see that him doing his stuff is against your human rights necessitates a law.

I truly feel that it is just another chip away of the populace being allowed to be a free man in his own kingdom. A stamp of authority from this Crusty the Clown dictatorship.

Akin, if I may be so bold, to our offspring having to wear welding masks if they wish to partake in the age old noble art of conkers. (Just how many kids have been blinded/disabled/underachieved due to kerplunking a pair of brown nuts together???)

Smoking. If this great leadership were to take such an avid interest in curtailing single teenage pregnancies, reducing MP's expenses, not pandering to the every whim of a certain large Western North American dictatorship, controlling the influx of sponging 'political refugees' and generally running the country out of the ground, we may in some way compete with The Congo on the world stage, ensuring our towns are a pleasant place to be on a Friday/Sat night, taking power away from loony local councils.

The next item on the agenda is to suppress the will of a nation by ensuring that anyone who actually works hard to ensure his family are secure are locked up for 'not being British'.

(The new meaning is; Voting Labour regardless, not actually having any respect for the new country you have been allowed to 'emigrate to', having no respect for anything other than your own self importance and having applied to at least five 'reality TV shows'. Oh and you must have at least three children of different colours and be a Portuguese transsexual).

Soap box stowed for take off, pins removed...

[YellowBelly]

Eagle 270

Well done - its only taken 3 pages for someone to hit the nail on the head. My original post was not specifically about smoking - it was intended to promote a discussion about the potential impacts of having a nanny state in power - the anti-smoking bill was merely the most obvious (and current) example.

However, at the risking of rising to the bait, Buoy15's argument about lost working hours due to 'tabbing' may be applied to the production line of (say) a baked bean company, but I sincerely doubt it can be appled logically to an RAF squadron. Specifically, can anyone provide examples of sorties that have been delayed or curtailed due to smoking (or any impact on any other typical sqn activity)? Indeed, do squadron smokers spend more time tabbing than others spend jawing in the crewroom? Also, if Buoy15 is so worried about lost working hours, what was he doing contributing to Pprune at 1519hrs? And please don't tell me that all day-time contributors to Pprune are on leave, waiting for night flying etc....

[BEagle]

Hmm - one wonders whether Latvian schoolgirls kerplunk pairs of nuts together?

:E

Yes, Trust-me-Tone and his odious gang seem more concerned at the fate of foxy-woxy than they do at the state of British civilians in Southern Rhodesia. What a crock - and I hope that voters show their outrage at the next election.

[Zoom]

Eagle 270
You wrote: 'If a smoker is doing his devil-like deed in your presence and you object, tell him to desist or move away.' Yeah, right. Have you tried that lately - especially if the smoker is a woman, who often seem to be far more belligerent than the men? I witnessed an amazing scene at Stansted recently when a bloke asked his girlfriend not to light up in the baggage hall, which was liberally adorned with No Smoking signs. She absolutely lost it, screaming, swearing, insulting anyone who dared to look in her direction, lit up anyway and then gave the world another blasting. A moment later another woman lit up next to me and I (trembling) asked her not to smoke. 'Why shouldn't I?' was her aggressive reply. 'Because this is a No Smoking area', I said. She tried to stare me down for a while, then decided not to have a go at me and finally put out her fag. And I have witnessed countless other, similar scenes. You see, Eagle, your phrase 'what is essentially manners and common sense' never seems to apply to the smokers themselves.

[flyboy007]

I am quite happy to move away or put out my ciggie if it genuinly offends/annoys someone. I don't smoke when people are eating.

Bouy15. I have just flown home, via an international airport to drop off 15 people from a total pax load of 60 odd. 200 empty seats. This is the norm not the exception. My ciggie breaks during the day do not touch the sides. It takes a lot of ciggies in a day to waste that amount of £$.

[buoy15]

YellowBelly

That was a teaser from an observation prior to my retirement earlier this year. - it's worked!

I can now do what I like, when I like, anytime I like,

flyboy07

What military aircraft are you on where you can have fag breaks even if you are half empty?

Love many, Trust a few, Always padlle your own canoe!

[SirToppamHat]

Not a smoker myself, never have been, and can't stand it in any circumstance.

Something that occurred to me recently though may be worth considering by others in the Services:

At my Mess, the stewards allegedly objected to the smoke in the bar after a new suspended ceiling was installed. The existing special smoke extraction systems were apparently inadequate. This being their 'place of work', smoking was banned immediately pending consideration of possible solutions by the Mess Cttee.

A few wks later at the AGM, the issue was discussed, and it was suggested to members that, should they wish to smoke in the bar, new extraction fans would need to be installed at a cost of £X,000s, the required funding coming from Non-public sources (ie Mess Subs or some such). Fortunately, the vote was NO, and we now have a much more pleasant environment in which to enjoy a few beers.

What I found a bit odd was that the Mess itself is a Public building. The stewards are 'Public' employees (contractors actually, but certainly not 'non-public' employees). Why, then, was the funding not found from the Stn Services Budget?

I put this forward simply because, in the current environment, other messes will surely find themselves in the same position.

Regards

STH

[flyboy007]

Bouy:

I can't have a cigarette break on the jet. I never have, however on the occasions I am at work on the ground I stop for a cigarette when I feel like it. I don't go home until the job is done therefore where is the time waste?? It's my time I'm wasting. What I am getting at is that no amount of cigarette breaks by those who choose to smoke, will even get close to wasting as much time/resources as we waste daily due to poor planning/management.

Sounds to me like a few people on this site could do with a nice relaxing cigarette :)

[Always_broken_in_wilts]

A classic smokers reposte:rolleyes: When faced with the bleedin obvious, attempt to justify your "weak willedness":rolleyes:

Smokers were never able to handle peer pressure and, like typical drug addicts, succombed to the evil of the weed............

Unlike their non smoking counterparts, who were mature enough to formulate individual decisions and ditch the "wasters" opinions as being pants:uhoh:

Smokers kill people on a day to day basis and the sooner they accept responsibility for their crimes the sooner we can move on to a more pleasant evironment:ok:

all spelling mistakes are"df" alcohol induced

[Blacksheep]

Sorry to keep harping on about separation but we just had a separate smokers area installed into the staff canteen. Just like at Changi airport, segregation works - now more smokers use the canteen and the contractor takes more money...

[DuckDodgers]

There will be NO ban in respective messess, unless ordered, as they are classed as PRIVATE clubs/bars.

[flyboy007]

ABIW: I chose to smoke. I'm not gloating or proud of it, but I certainly don't think it makes me a bad man. I'm not ashamed of it. Contrary to your apparent beliefs I don't smoke to try and poison those around me. I am addicted no denying. That is the nature of the beast. Do you drive a car? Do I and other smokers accuse you of trying to cause pollution, leading to desecration of the ozone, in turn leading to an increase in cancer? Dry your eyes, call the padre.

[BEagle]

I am addicted, no denying..

And therein lies the rub. Whilst it might be possible to 'ban' newcomers from smoking, those who started years ago need some consideration as they may find it totally impossible to give up. I have never smoked, it just never appealed.....

A heavy smoker who was one of our 3-man syndicate during the 'E&E' phase of King Rock '69 was so desperate for the dreaded weed that we had to give him some of our carefully hidden contraband cash and creep into a German village so that he could buy some fags. We were than caught on the way back out to the bondhu and had a few hours of tactical questioning as a result - so much for bloody smokers and their addiction!

An overnight ban would be excessively draconian; perhaps a smoking cell can be provided for the remaining addicts to 'enjoy' their weed until they retire or expire?

[Lee Jung]

ABIW.

Interesting world you live in where peer pressure is used to MAKE people cave-in and smoke.

Youe are obviously an addict yourself, albeit to booze, as your last post is so non-sensical it must have been totally alcohol induced.

And, as a 'weak-willed' tabber I have never had a problem with self-determination, neither did Winston Churchill I believe.

I do, however, agree that smoking, whilst a supreme comforter, would be immediately banned if it was new, but so would alcohol.

It's also somewhat amusing that as smoking, pies and conkers come under the PC Brigade's further scrutiny the rules on drugs get relaxed.

I think, as does New Labour, that this topic is becoming contentious - quick, change the subject- ban fox hunting.

And also, when designing Abbey Wood they intentionally designed comfortable rest areas, following human factors thinking that when undertaking long and complex tasks regular breaks allow you to consider your progress and take stock without becoming bogged down. So smokers are actually more efficient and don't use as much of their pension. Non-tabbers watch out in the coming redundancy rounds!

[Always_broken_in_wilts]

Lee and Flyboy,

Give me one compelling reason for starting to smoke, apart from "all me mates are doin it" or "it's cool", and I might just consider a major lifestyle change. :rolleyes:

However before replying please consider the following facts:ok:

1. Smoking kills!

2. Passive smoking kills!

3. According to to every smoker I have ever asked the first few "death sticks" taste like sh!te:yuk:

4. For non smokers any close conversation with a smoker is awful, just watch folks hold their breath or turn their heads away next time you engage in a chat!

5. Non smoker kissing a smoker....gross :yuk:

6. The first waking moments of a smokers day are spent "hacking" their poisened lungs into action.

7. It costs a bloody fortune!

I could go on but point 3 sums up smokers for me. Despite the fact it tastes like sh!te till your hooked you are all too weak willed to risk the ridicule of your peers, so persevere to addiction!

Or perhaps you have another reason why someone would want to start?

The gov't are quite right forcing you to accept that it is no longer right for the minority to enforce their disgusting habit on the majority and this outright ban cannot come quick enough for me :ok:

all spelling mistakes are "df" alcohol induced

[Eagle 270]

Educational and thought provoking as always ABIW.

I gather you are a fully payed up member of the Labour party with your 'overbearing' views?

You seem to have been taken in fully by the act and not the reason. Long may you be a Daily Mirror reader.


1. Smoking kills!

2. Passive smoking kills!

3. According to to every smoker I have ever asked the first few "death sticks" taste like sh!te

4. For non smokers any close conversation with a smoker is awful, just watch folks hold their breath or turn their heads away next time you engage in a chat!

5. Non smoker kissing a smoker....gross

6. The first waking moments of a smokers day are spent "hacking" their poisened lungs into action.

7. It costs a bloody fortune!

I could go on


Please don't, theres a good chap. I'm sure smokers and non smokers do not need a lesson in stating the bleedin obvious from you. (That confirms to us that you must be a member of the Govn).

[flyboy007]

ABIW:

1. Smoking kills!
---Correct

2. Passive smoking kills!
---Genius

3. According to to every smoker I have ever asked the first few "death sticks" taste like sh!te
---I'll break that trend for you, I enjoyed it, and still do enjoy some of them. (I admit the rest are addiction)

4. For non smokers any close conversation with a smoker is awful, just watch folks hold their breath or turn their heads away next time you engage in a chat!
---I'm surprised you have been close enough to one of us filthy scum to know; however, some people's natural breath isn't exactly their best attribute.

5. Non smoker kissing a smoker....gross
---So don't kiss a smoker then!!!!It's not difficult. No smokers that I am aware of force non smokers to kiss them.

6. The first waking moments of a smokers day are spent "hacking" their poisened lungs into action.
---Not me yet. It's something I have to look forward to. (And poisened is spelt poisoned. Lay off the DF)

7. It costs a bloody fortune!
---Can I assume that you don't do anything that costs lots? What fun it must be in your household.

[BEagle]

From msn.co.uk:

If you smoke 20 cigarettes a day at a cost of £4.35 a pack then you’re coughing up (excuse the pun) £1,587.74 a year, that’s a lung choking £15,877.49 going up in smoke every 10 years. Smoke 40 a day and that’s a whopping £31,754.99 you’ve forked out in a decade. Even someone who puffs their way through an average of 10 fags a day spends a hefty £7,938.74.

It’s official. Smoking damages your wealth.

So, say you smoke 20 a day (which is easy when it’s party season even for a ‘social smoker’) at £4.05 a packet (and more if you resort to pub and club vending machines). That’s £48.60 you’ll spend on fags over 12 days


I can think of many better things to do with £1600 per year than setting fire to it. Membership of a RAF FCA Flying Club plus about 20 hours of private flying per year for one!

But it's an individual's choice....

[flyboy007]

True true Beagle,

However if I smoke 20 a day, at a duty free cost of £1.40/packet, thats a cost of £9.80 per week, and £509.60 per year. That's an undeniable saving of £1078.24 per year, saving me £10782.40 over ten years, on the cost of duty paid cigarettes!! The more I smoke, the more I save!!! You can't deny the maths ;)

[Trumpet_trousers]

5. Non smoker kissing a smoker....gross

.....although it's allowed and all above board now, what you get up to in your own time is your business, and, as was said above, you don't have to do it....but whatever floats your boat, I suppose;)

..You could always use all that spare cash you've saved from not smoking for spelling lessons too....

[tokentotty]

Speaking as someone who has recently given up after 13 years as a smoker, I think that most smokers are aware of how antisocial their habit is and would rather not be shelling out £35 a week for a 20 a day habit and that's before we even start on the health risks.

Personally the times when I've found it hardest to give up are when I've been sitting in the bar and a load of other people around me are smoking. You know that if you ask someone will always give you a cig. If it was banned inside the bar it would make it much easier for people to give up as the temptation simply wouldn't be there.

All for it - and I don't think it's a nanny state action, it's protecting people. Saying that it is a human right to smoke in other people's faces is like saying it's a human right to drive home when you've had a few to many because you're too pissed to walk.

[HalesAndPace]

Smoking kills (http://www.harriscountyhealth.com/tobacco/smokelungs.htm), ban it completely other than in the privacy of your own quarter/home - or room in the Mess! But no batty if you smoke in your room!! :E

Accept the tax losses over the next 10 years or so whilst waiting for the smoking-related healthcare costs to drop. From the NHS :"Smoking causes 120,000 deaths in the UK each year and treating smoking related diseases costs the NHS about £1.7 billion a year."

[flyboy007]

Hey, I agree smoking is a filthy habit/addiciton, it costs lots, it's bad for you...etc etc. But in the interests of fair debate, lots of these points could be applied to many things we do every day. And let's not forget that the baccy tax brings in far more than it costs! Let's face it, this is the Rothmans Air Force. I'm not in any way trying to convince perople to smoke, but smokers are not bad people intent on killing innocent others as some people here would like to make out. Nor are we the drain on society that some would have everyone believe.

[Sashathehungry]

I do not smoke, and if possible avoid conversations/bars where there is a lot of smoking since I not only feel rotten at the time but usually I feel ill the following day.

However, the link between passive smoking and deaths from lung cancer et al have always been very weak, believe it or not. I agree that there are examples such as Roy Castle, but perhaps they are the extreme case?

In any event, I don't dislike people for smoking and don't distance myself from them, so why should they feel alienated by being shuffled outside? What's wrong with a smoking room established for that purpose?

It seems our society spends so much time and money bending over backwards to accommodate minorities' views and customs/needs, engineer political correctness and generally meddle. Why can't they accommodate the large proportion of the population who smoke by offering a less comprehensive ban?

On the flipside of course, there is the strain on the NHS... but then it always was a vast bureaucratic money pit anyway.

STH

[PPRuNeUser0172]

tokentotty, here here!!!

BTW how is life in 'the bar'

Regards

DS

[Echo 5]

Wilts,

Not often you or I agree on anything but I'm with you all the way on this one. All baccy should be banned from these shores. Either that or all smokers should be deported to Welsh Wales. That would soon cure them of their habit !!

Regards to all

E5;)

[PH98]

Anyone who's ever bought a new car can't really use any argument that smoking costing lots. How many new £30,000 cars are there on the road that eat fuel and are worth sod all compared to their new price after 10 years. And some people buy a new one every three years.

I don't smoke, never have and probably never will (apart from the odd dining in night cigar) but I've not been to many messes recently where so many people smoke that it's really bothered me. It's much smokier in your average pub. It's only become an issue because most people don't smoke any more, so therefore it's inherrently self limiting.

[scroggs]

I'm lucky enough to be able to frequent bars in New York, California and Ireland - all of which have banned smoking in the workplace. It is now a pleasant experience to be able to drink without being surrounded by smokers, and not to have to despatch all the clothes worn that night to the cleaners.

The health benefits are a bonus! Though the 110,000 people currently killed every year in UK by smoking-related diseases might have thought otherwise.

[ZH875]

I don't smoke, never have and probably never will (apart from the odd dining in night cigar) In other words you ARE a smoker and DO smoke. Why attempt to cover up the facts.

[J.A.F.O.]

"Smoking causes 120,000 deaths in the UK each year and treating smoking related diseases costs the NHS about £1.7 billion a year." Don't you think that this may be offset somewhat by the £8.1 billion smokers pay in, each year.

In fact, the more I think about it, the more sense it makes. Don’t vilify smokers, applaud their courage.

There are approximately 59.2 million people in the UK, around 50 million of them are adults, 13 million of whom smoke. If all adult non-smokers had the courage to light up then that would increase government income from cigarettes to a massive £31 billion, what a difference that would make.

And it doesn’t stop there, 75% of all NHS expenditure is on care for the elderly; now there would be far fewer elderly people if we all smoked. That’s going to save us around £150 billion each year. Now we’re talking.

Let’s take the pensions time bomb, at the moment there are 16 million people in the UK over the age of 65 and that is increasing day by day. The only way that we can ensure that the country doesn’t grind to a halt in the next twenty years is to ensure less people make it to 65.

There are 717,000 live births in the UK each year and only 628,000 deaths; we’re heading for a nightmare. Soon there won’t be room to move, we all have to do our bit to increase the death rate.

So, come on chaps and chapesses ask not your country can do for you but how many tabs you can consume for your country. A direct increase of £181 billion to the exchequer, room to move, an end to pension worries, no need to continue our ever increasing house building programme. There is only one course of action that makes sense. Go on, have a tab.

:ok:

[Always_broken_in_wilts]

Jafo,

Top idea and can't fault the logic.............but any chance you could back this indulgance as an "outside pastime":E

all spelling mistakes are "df" alcohol induced

[Lou Scannon]

Just one thought that might make you want to give up:

Those of you who (like me) transfer to civil aviation will find an almost total ban on smoking. This extends to the flight deck, crew check in and classrooms.

The fact that the odd retired group captain/first officer wishes to smoke doesn't count for diddly squat. Every ones vote is equal (not that we often get that far into democracy!)

You are told at the interview if the company has a non-smoking policy and you makes your choice.

[PH98]

ZH875:

I don't really think the four or five cigars i've smoked in my life qualifies me as a proper smoker. It does however put me in the bracket of the people that tried three or four behind the bike sheds when they were 14 and decided they were s****. And I can also vouch for the fact that every time I have had a cigar I've woken up with a horrible taste in my mouth. Maybe I'm weak, but I'm not "covering" anything. Oh, and by the way it makes no difference to my point.