Asymmetric operations

[Matt-YSBK]

Hi All,
After a lot of soul searching and the understanding I will now be poor for the rest of my life I am finalizing the purchase of my first aero plane It’s a twin which I have very little experience on but as one of the motivations of the twin was to do my instrument rating and finding a safe family curser the understanding for me is the only way the twin will be safer then a single will be if I am ultra current and polished at single engine operations. Has anyone got any suggestions as to how often asymmetric should be practiced in what phase.

Thanks all.

[Icarus2001]

I hope you enjoy aircraft ownership. :confused:

As to currency, it is very hard to put a hard figure on it because everyone takes different amounts of time to achieve the same standard and therefore they will lose " currency" at differing rates too!

CASA has tried to put a figure on it and also many companies that hire aircraft to people. 90 days seems a reasonable figure. It is used for passenger carrying currency, instrument approach currency, night landing currency and most companies will not hire you an aircraft without 90 day currency and/ or a check flight even though you can stay on the ground for 23 months and 3 weeks if you own your own aircraft and then blast off on an across Australia flight!

The problem with the 90 day rule is the 89 DAY CLUB. The plonkers who go to their local club/school etc and do 3 circuits every 90 days to be legal but who are woefully uncurrent! They would be better to let the 90 days lapse and do a check flight with an instructor when they actually need to go flying.

So for asymmetric operations I would suggest perhaps 90 days. Since it is your own aircraft it would not cost you very much to do two or three circuits dual to keep the competency up. This may seem onerous but I am assuming that you fly privately and irregularly. For people flying twins every day then this would be overkill and they are far more comfortable and potentially competent with the aircraft although this can breed complacency.
Did you read about the El Questro crash?

COSTS: Say $150 for an instructor and landing fees every 90 days which is $600 per annum plus your aircraft costs.

Sounds like good value to me.:ok:

[Chimbu chuckles]

What aircraft type and why a twin?

[Matt-YSBK]

It's a duchess. As to why a twin. I have been working on getting an aircraft for around 24 months now. Initially i was looking at the same type of aircraft that I hire and fly week in and out. The relatively high performance Saratoga/Lance. This aircraft has the performance and range i required but i have a busy work life and to make my aircraft work for me and allow me to head off on all the trips i have planed i really need to fly at night and also in IMC. I have always had a little uneasy feeling about flying a single in these conditions (especially at night out of the Sydney basin. I don’t fancy the night country winding road landing) To double my uneasiness the IO540 power plant of the PA32 needs to be treated with kid gloves meaning that if it was to go online to try an cover some costs i could have careless pilots cracking cylinders. The Archer style power plants of the duchess are a lot more forgiving the speed and range are simular to the PA32 and i rarely need to take more then 3 pax. There are some downsides duchess parts are hard to find and the recent casa AD requiring the flap inspection is a little worrying. On the other hand the O-360's are common and the props are also in wind spread use.

The duchess is also in demand for twin trainging so if i elect to put it online it may return a little more then the touring PA32. I am of cause planing to get no return on hire at all so i will not be disapointed or loose the house if it doesnt come off.

[GeeBeeZee]

Check with the insurance companies first as you may find that trying to insure a twin with little hours on type is almost impossible.

[takeonme]

Matt are you looking to hire it out??

Im looking at doin a fair bit of twin IFR to get up to scratch out of BK. Probably 10 hours or so and am looking at a Duchy, the cheaper the better.

PM me if you are,

Cheers,

T.O.M

[Chimbu chuckles]

Matt I have only very little time in a Duchess but was generally impressed. They will climb on one at certain weights...I did a renewal in one that climbed assy with me (100kg) and Chesty (from Cooly, no lightweight either) quite easily.

As to assy currency I would suggest that a good representative GA simulator would be as beneficial as hopping in your aeroplane regularly. The things that need to be reinforced and practiced are your scan and emergency drills. If you did a good solid hour of assy training with a competent instructor say every two months you be well placed to cope with most real life eventuallities... Combined with a solid plan on each departure, see the 'DME arc' thread on D&G Questions started by thrustmaster.

But keep the sim stuff realistic.

As good as the BE76 is I would suggest you set yourself some fairly safe minimum weather conditions below which you will not depart...for instance no departure with < 500' cloudbase and < 2km vis...at least then if you suffer a complete engine failure (very rare indeed if you take out fuel starvation) you can fly a min weather circuit and land back again...practice those in a sim or if you can't find one with good enough graphics then do a couple every 12 months in your aircraft as well as the sim every two months.

Also do yourself a favour and find a very good instructor and do some assy work in your aircraft, very carefully, at max takeoff weight rather than just at the usual training weights...i.e. two up and < half fuel...then you will have no illusions about where you are going and what you plan should be in that scenario.

Over time the sim sessions can probably be reduced to an hour every 4-6 months...only you can be the judge.

PS have you thought about an Aztec? Relatively cheap to buy 'cause they're not sexy, but will outperfom a Duchess easily with your typical load. 4 seaters are really only good two seaters and 6 seaters are great 4 seaters with 4 bums stuff.

The reality of crosshire is that a few hours a month will cover your hangarage and perhaps your insurance...but that's about all. Lots of hours a month has the potential to cost money in the long term due to wear and tear...if you don't need to crosshire then don't...imo....there is no such thing as a hirer that will treat your aircraft as you would treat it.

[piontyendforward]

Matt,

For what you have said you want to do with your aircraft the the Duckie is almost taylor made for you. It is cheap to run, easy to fly and not hard to sell if you need to in a hurry. Do try and find a 24 volt Duckie, as they have less electrical problems than the 12 volts ones. Props get a real hamering on the 76 and clearences are low to the ground, so if you plan to operate to the back country a lot and non paved strips it may need a re think.

I agree with Cimbu the Azpig is also a good option.

Twins for new owner/pilots to avoid until some experience under the belt (both flying and maint.)

C337
A600/601/602
B55/58's
C320/340/401/402/414/421
Cheiftans Nevergo's and Majove's

They are all real good aircraft but they are not for newbies, and can be VERY expensive lessons in aircraft maint.

Good twins for newbies

Twin Comms
Duckies
Part bannanas
Az pigs
Seaman holes
Aero commanders

fwiw
cheers

[tinpis]

Hope this is not advertising but there is a a very good twin comm for sale in Parafield at the moment quite possibly the best there is.
Ask around for an old German aircraft salesgentleman.

:p

[Bula]

twin comms.. YUK!



If your looking for single engine performance with 3 pax the duchess will atleast fly level (most of the time). 3 pax in a twin comm....out out bankstown aaaaaarrrrgggggggggghhhhhhh there's Canterbury Road :)

[Cornholio]

Assymetric work is best done on one engine less.

[tinpis]

busy buggah arnt ya?

[Matt-YSBK]

Thanks all for your comments/advice. I did settle on a duchess in the end which is now all mine. I look forward with some uncertainty about my financial future but sure i will have fun going broke.

Thanks again all.

[Speeds high]

I did 800 hours in a Dukkie, and can assure you that they are not the fastest or prettiest, but boy i think i had as much fun in it as i did any other airplane.

Having just purchased the airplane im sure you probably know more than I about them, but here are a few things i found neways

The will climb out well assymetric 4 outta 5 times (when they dont it will be when you least expecting it and most needing it.

The gear pump motor sometimes gets dead spots, so be sure to know how to get the wheels out (without simulaneously driving yourself into the ground)

If water gets into the airvent thats located in the forward section of the vertical fin, the water could make its way to the electric vent fan, and cause a fire. I know a lot of operators have had this fan disconnected and the vent filled up.

The Janitrol heater is quite effective, but staves itself on the ground and low airflow stuations, (the fan is not suffecient air), so be sure to find out how to reset its saftey switch in the nose; or it will be some cold flyin :)

I am sure it will give you many years of great service though so have fun :D