Am I Over The Hill?

[The Big 'M']

Hello to all PPRUNErs, I am a new member and looking for some advice on an age old question. I have been a PPL holder on and off for the past 11 years. It did lapse but is now current again. At the age of 36, I am now financially in a position to pursue a commercial licence (ATPL). With work commitments, this would be on a part-time basis, probably studying through Bristol Ground School or the like. Firstly, with hard work, is this achievable and also, at my age, are there likely to be job opportunities at the end of it for someone who by then will be in their late 30's given the current trend? Thanks for taking the time to read this, any advice will help.

:confused:

[give me an axe]

no i would say so ! go for it .............

[spitfire747]

this is a tricky question to answer.. i will do my best.

I personally am 26 and have now got a CPL and FI rating, just about to start the IR/MCC and will hopefully be finished by January 2005. At 26 I will have 35,000 worth of debt. I belive and have believed since starting out on the long road 4 years ago, that I will complete my training and then one day get a good flying job. I have given myself a goal of getting that by 30 years old.

NOW

The market in the aviation industry is very boyant and NO ONE can really say what will happen, like the weather men, aviation analysts are just guessing most of the time. I do believe the market does slowly increase and the need for flight crews will always be there, despite the technology for pilotess planes, and i am a strong believer.

I have always and will always live by the idea that life is too short and you only get one stab at it on this earth. I would rather try and say i tried than say i wish i had tried. I did not like my day job in the office, hated it and knew i could not do it forever, then i went flying and it hit me across the face, my future career had just found me.

my travels have been hard, i have given up alot, my friends from school all have houses and cars and enough money to go away on holiday whenever whereve, wehere as i am 26, own my fiesta and laptop, live with my parents again and have nothing in the bank, BUT i am guessing i am alot happier than some.

I just spent the best 2 months of my life in Carfiff, flying everyday teaching new people how to fly, i loved every single minute of it, i knew i had made the right decision.. today however i feel a little depressed, no flying instructing work due weather etc etc and no jobs round the south, been in a factoy tday making light fittings.. grrrrrrrr wish i had a real career.. no i don't my one is blossoming slowly, but when it blooms, god it will bloom.

now onto you

obviously with any career, the older one gets the more difficult it is to secure a position of any stature ad it goes for almost all industries. However from my flying school, i know of 3 people over 40, who in the last month went on to jet jobs on the 737,747 and 737 respecitvely...

i cannot say to you yes go for it or no do not, but if you can afford it and have the love and support of your family and friends, THEN GO FOR IT NOW WITHOUT HESITATION.

your a long time dead

hope my two pennies worth have helped

Spit ;)

[Andy_R]

Spit

With regard to the 3 people over 40 getting jobs, what sort of experience did they have? Were they all instructors who have been waiting an age for a job offer or were one or two of them relative newbies, recently qualified?

Still trying to convince myself at 39 to go for it :eek: almost got the hours for CPL but holding off on ATPL's, though that is about to change me thinks !!!

[Hoof Hearted]

Big M
Let me tell you of my experience. Qualified with CPL/IR at 30 and took seven years to obtain first job on Turbo-prop. Never made it to Jet company as have always been told that while my experience was good my age was against me and there are loads of guys that were ten or more years younger that would be considered in preference to me! Ageism is rife in this business. My advice is dont waste the money. Twelve years on as a Turbo-prop Captain I have recently decided to quit aviation.

More advice should you care to read it.

The job involves being on a roster which can be changed at the drop of a hat so screwing up plans that you may have made. Protests fall on deaf ears. You can kiss goodbye to a personal life and may have to endure long periods of separation from loved ones. If you cannot find a job at your local airport you are then looking at funding accomodation from a taxed income. Then there is the issue of funding a Type Rating about which there is already a long discussion on PPRuNE.

Why on earth do you want to do it. Just go and hire a PA28 or similar when you want and carry on enjoying your flying.:D

[kilobravo]

Hi Big M.

Am 35 and will be 36 in Jan. Have only got a PPL and am about to start ATPL's. Have a lot to do and will be working in the mean time. I'm going to give it a shot, work hard and hope to be all done in the next 2yrs, maybe sooner. I'll be 38 looking for work with F*** all hours but I will be a lot closer to the flight deck than I am right now. I am not married, have no house, am back home with the folks and don't go out too much caus all my friends are married, with houses and children. I don't envy anyone of them, except maybe the ones with loads of cash, but their lifestyle ???
I don't think so mate. Life is an adventure and it's pissing by fairly quick from where I'm standing! So for me, no more waiting, its ATPL's or bust!!! If that doen't work, I am also looking at work in operations because working in the environment of an airline will be the next best thing if I fail to either get all my qualifications or fail to get work.

Good luck, it will all be over before you know it.:ok:
Later
KB

[Megaton]

37 years old, two kids, no house, 430 hours and two job offers in two days.

Lead, follow or get out of the way!

[High Wing Drifter]

I bet now you're even more cofused than before :D

[kilobravo]

Nice one Ham Phisted!!!
I need to get 314hrs in a year and a few months and I'll be right there. Oh yeah.. and an IR/ME/CPL/MCC/ATPLs/CLASS1 Med/Night Rating/FIr/Type Rating.Mmmmmmmm.....:{
Try getting a house in this country, I'll have to be senior capt of something very large and for a long time before the bank gives me a mortgage! Still it could be worse, at least I still have hope:ok:

[xbilz]

A lot has been discussed on pprune on age factor, which seems to play a major role in getting a job. Someone well said that there are many professional footballers but only few make it to the premiership. What I believe is your attitude and skills, which may help you to stand out from others. I myself 28 going for it now and same self-financing story. You will get number of different views on this - read through and make a plan.

If you want to do it ... do it in a structured planned manner. Calculated risk !!! not blind risk !

Wish you all the best.

[chewy974]

Big M

i'm 30 have a ppl, and currently taking my imc, night rating, and studying for my ATPL exams. Yes it is hard work, yes it's worrying funding it yourself and working full time, but time waits for no-one. There's no going back, no dress rehersals, you only get one shot at this life. If it's what you really want to do, go for it. You don't want to look back in years to come and think what IF!!! I believe if your determind enough you can achieve anything.

Best of luck. chewy974

Ham Phisted

"Lead, follow or get out of the way!"

Like it!!

[JohnnyPharm]

Chewy974

but time waits for no-one. There's no going back, no dress rehersals, you only get one shot at this life


Have you never heard of reincarnation??? (or is that some kind of condensed milk or something)????.

If you are too old now, just wait until your next life and start training a lot earlier.

[plumponpies]

Over the hill?
BO**OX!
Don't listen to anyone who tells you that your past it.
There will always be the doom and gloom buch on this site discouraging those that have got more drive and determination to succeed than themselves.
If you really want it, GO GET IT!
I did. At the ripe old age of 32.

[jimbo jet set]

big M,
for f***'s sake just get out there and do it!!!

If you don't I'll show you this thread in five years time when you're back doing earlies lates and nights at some s****y central london nick being abused by immigrants.

Theres the quick and the dissapionted mate, I know what I'll be!!

Jimbo:)

[xbilz]

being abused by immigrants.


Jimbo,

Being a Police Officer you should be more careful and responsible in raising "immigrant's" issue !!!

[High Wing Drifter]

Being a Police Officer you should be more careful and responsible in raising "immigrant's" issue !!!
Oh no, 'ere come the PC luvies. Talking of PCs, it doesn't stop at immigrants.

Kidding!! :O

[Birky]

My story? I just turned 40 in September this year. I spent 1991 to 2000 working for Dan Air, Caledonian, Flying Colours and, finally, JMC as cabin crew.

In that time I did around four years as a SCCM and a year as a Cabin Crew Trainer. Since then I have been running my own web development business which has been a great experience, if not exactly a fortune-maker....so....

With that aviation and commercial experience background I have finally decided to start my ATPL in Autumn 2005. I plan to save £30k this coming year, borrow £30k, get the rest on a Career Development Loan and blow the lot on an integrated ATPL course.

Moral of story? If I have the bottle/mindless age-denial to do it, so can any of you thirty-somethings.

Good luck...

[jimbo jet set]

just speaking the truth- after all thats my job!!:ok:

not quite sure what high wing drifters on about- 'PC luvies'?!
sounds very interesting though:bored:

[spitfire747]

jimbo check your PMs

[cymuni]

30 years old. Wife and one kid. live in Canada and own my house.
I have PPl and night rating, 180 something hrs. I have recently ran out of money to finish my CPL. Haven't flown in 5 months 15 days. I Just got turned down for a factor job building diamond Katana's, they say I don't have enough industrial experience. Shame as the company had a 1/2 price flying club. I'm feeling pretty low lately but not quite ready to give up. I'll finish my commercial though, even if it's out of spite!

Hope you have better luck.:mad:

[High Wing Drifter]

[QUOTE]not quite sure what high wing drifters on about- 'PC luvies'?!
sounds very interesting though[QUOTE]
Politically Correct :)

[jimbo jet set]

High wing

Ah ha, I see you're point!!

Jimbo:ok:

[MJR]

Some advice from a 39 year old fATPL holder:

1. ATPL exams can be difficult to achieve if you are working full time.

2. CPL GFT quite easy really

3. ME IR can be a bit tricky

4. MCC good fun and no assessment


So all the difficult stuff out the way and now you can start looking for a job!

Well, not really, particularly for me the most difficult time has been post qualified. Having spent two years and 120+ CV's further on I have still not secured even an interview. There is an distinct prejudice to employing non-type rated pilots and non-airline experienced pilots over the age of 30 even worse over 40.

This is the difficult bit, dont kid yourself that having valuable work experience will make your CV rise to the top of the pile, because it wont.

Despite some jobs appearing now, they are not in abundance and are mainly obtained by younger people. No doubt some older pilots do get jobs but they are in a minority. Whether this situation will change is yet to be seen, but dont hold your breath!

If you can afford it, and can stand the disappointment of not getting a job then go for it with your eyes wide open. You will here a lot of bravado on this forum from people saying "go for it".

If you can find a commercial pilot who has succeded at an older age, then listen to their advice and perhaps tell me what they said.

Sorry to be negative, but you might as well know how it is before your leap into a commercial flying career.

cheers

MJR

[dann1405]

The thing you have to consider is that there are no guarantees for any of us, whatever our age, in this business. If you can accept that then go for it. You are obviously less likely to wind up with a widebody command than someone starting out aged 20, but I know several people who came into commercial aviation at your age and are now happily flying turboprops and smaller jets (eg Dash 8/737/320). It is a risk, but most things in life are about calculated risk aren't they?

[piston broke 2]

Well done jimbo, its about time someone had the balls to speak the truth!!

Keep up the good work.