Brevet requirements

[Ops and Mops]

Hi all,

Does anyone know who at MoD/PTC is responsible for the issue/eligibility criteria of Flying Badges?

I have been asked about the background and criteria for the "VR" Pilot Flying Badge, but dont really know the details of how/when these were awarded.

As I understand it was introduced as a "get out" for RAFVR (T) AEF Pilots that had not been Qualified Service Pilots. I would imagine that the badge is now obsolete as I believe all AEF Pilots (with 1 exception) now have to have been a QSP before being offered an AEF slot.

Any more info/guidance would be appreciated.
:ok:

[MrBernoulli]

Having mentioned the exception, perhaps ypu could tell us thewhere/how/why about this particular AEF pilot. No names required, of course.

[BEagle]

Seems a bit odd - I thought one had to have been an RAF pilot in order to be permitted to fly at an AEF?

I guess RAFVR 'budgie wings' (PFB) might be what's being referred to here?

[Impiger]

The wings do indeed exist and I suspect their provenence is along the lines suggested ie we intended to appoint competent pilots to fly the ATC/AEF in a civilian aircraft (the Grob) but needed a method of bringing them under command of Military Flying Regulations. The wing looks awfully like the real thing but with VR in the centre instead of RAF if memory serves me right.

Not sure what the current state of play is but the boss of the AEF at Leuchars was one such beast and I heard he had a bag full of the wings because they were ordered on the expectation tha there would be hoards of chaps and chapesses applying .... but there weren't! I think the scheme has since been stopped but I expect the one or two remaining VR wings people will see out their contracted service.

[wub]

The former boss of Turnhouse AEF was never a service pilot but had Sqn Ldr rank, flew Chippies and sported wings with 'VR' in place of 'RAF'. He may be the same person that Impiger describes.

[Ops and Mops]

It is indeed the VR "Wings" to which I refer, as opposed to the PFB. Managed to find a piccy....

http://www.mileshigh.org.uk/gash/vr%20wings.JPG

The current boss of the AEF at Leuchars is the only known officer that wears them, and he has flown both Chippies and Bulldogs as well as Das Teutor, so it can't have been limited to civilian aircraft. As he was originally appointed into the RAFVR for AEF service only, (now RAFR) I can only guess that the badge was introduced to allow him to fly as PIC of a military aircraft without having been awarded a "full" flying badge.

I suspect I may have answered my own question :rolleyes: but any more accurate data would be appreciated on the requirements for award of the badge, and whether it is still classed as "current".

Cheers :ok:

[Pontius Navigator]

One of my Cpls gained a ppl and flew on the AEF out of, I think, Syserston. That was only 4 years ago. No idea if he had wings.

[Arclite01]

Actually I think it was because years ago vacancies on AEF's came about because there was a lack of service QFI's who wanted the job when they retired

The gap was plugged by keen civilian AFI's who were more than qualified, but some form of brevet was required for the job and Innsworth created the VR badge.

The staff were actually commissioned as RAF VR(T) J Class officers (civil servants in uniform). There were 3 at that time as I recall.....

How the tables are turned and now we have shedloads of ex-RAF officers queueing up for the jobs on AEF's ! since their real jobs don't exist.

Oh - and the Wings at Syerston are gliding wings on the VGS (which operates Grob vigilant Motor Gliders) which anyone in the service can earn if they are medically fit, and want to spend their time helping air minded youth. Thay also have a crown when you reach B Category instructor and above. On my VGS we had many regular other ranks who freely gave up their time to help - and very welcome they were too !

I don't think there has ever been an AEF at Syerston.

Arc

[PhoenixDaCat]

Back in 1992-94 ish, 8 AEF went through a period of having 2 to 4 newly qualified young pilots on strength at anyone time, on hold awaiting their training courses. It was the best time to fly as a staff cadet!!!! Things just weren't the same when they all left and all we were left with was the VR pilots :-(

[J.A.F.O.]

I remember the jobs being advertised about 10 years ago but can't find the promulgation of the badge anywhere.

I'd be interested in finding out, too.

[MightyGem]

Seems a bit odd - I thought one had to have been an RAF pilot in order to be permitted to fly at an AEF?

There was an AAC SNCO pilot flying AEF a couple of years ago, may well be still doing it. Also one of our pilots who was ex AAC did it for a short while here at Woodvale.

[Skylark4]

6 AEF at Benson have had RAF, Army and Navy pilots on strength. My understanding is that, in normal circumstances, AEF pilots must be service trained. there may well be exceptional cases. Those that are no longer in the services take a commission as VRT officers. Those still in fly as they are. Haven't come across an Army Non-Com but I expect he, or she, ( havent met one of those either), would be welcome.
The VGS pilots need to be PPLs at least, with a certain amount of experience, and go through training at Syerston.

Mike W

[Megaton]

Not true regarding VGS pilots. Many of them have come up through the Air Cadet system and have had no training outside the VGS world. Unfortunately for them, they can have thousands of hours instructing up to first solo and beyond but the CAA gives little recognition when it comes to credits for a PPL.

[BEagle]

It's not the CAA who give such little credit, it's the JAA. Under the old CAP 53 rules for UK PPLs, the CAA gave a lot more credit - unfortunately no-one from the ATC or BGA world challenged the ridiculous Regulatory Impact Assessment trotted out by the CAA 5 years ago (it was a total piece of fiction, in my view) - and you're now stuck with it....

But we've been able to secure far greater credit towards the NPPL - because they were agreed by industry, not by faceless paper shufflers in Europe!

[Megaton]

Thank you, BEagle, I stand corrected. And thank you for the tip-off regarding a certain wg cdr. He claims to have had a CFS crest on his shorts at the time as a mark of respect for that organization!

[Skylark4]

Ham Phisted,
You are quite right, up to a point. You could learn to fly totally within the ATC organisation and what you say is true. You could enter later, as an adult and what I say is true, I think. I do not operate in this area.

Mike W

[BEagle]

HP - he's telling porkies! If memory serves they were rather tacky paisley Y-fronts.......

Like these:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=38568&item=8142937012&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW

[Ops and Mops]

Erm,

Still trying to work this one out, but...

How on earth did we get from a flying badge to paisley pants?!! :suspect:

Mind you, one of the better cryptic thread hijacks seen on here! :}

[Spacer]

Ladies and Gents: Apologies for being away, but hello to anyone that I know! Anyway, I was having a chat the other day with a certain AEF pilot, who has drafted this reply to the topic of the VR brevet:

"I have read with much amusement the comments written about the VR flying badges/Brevets lately. Sometime before 1989 there must have been a shortage of QFIs on the AEF/UASs around the country. Adverts were placed in the aviation press for Civilian Senior Instructors to join the RAFVR in the rank of Flt Lt, but employed by the Civil Service as Senior Instruction Officers, to work on the UASs as instructors and command AEFs. The requirements were a fully civvy instructor rating with at least an IMC rating. The candidates had to attend and pass an interview before a board consisting of a Civil Servant (Personnel), an RAF Officer, and a HQAC representative. The venue was MOD in Whitehall. The few that passed were eventually sent to RAFC Cranwell to do the Tarts and Vicars course. After that they were sent to RAF Scampton to complete two CFS refresher courses back to back followed by the Flight Safety and Flight Supervisors courses. Only one passed and he was sent to command No 12 AEF at Turnhouse. He spent the first two years flying without any sort of brevet, but he was eventually presented with his VR wings at Cranwell. He is still the only civilian wearing these wings to this day! 1000 of the Senior Instructor Officer Brevets were manufactured (complete with NATO stock number), and all for him!"


So, people, there we have the definitive answer from the man himself :)

[c-bert]

If you have a problem, if no one else can help, and if you can find him, maybe you can hire Flt Lt XYZ.....Da da daa etc...

[Tonkenna]

There you go Mr B the answer to your question is OC 12 AEF. I was going to tell ya next time I saw you, but you are off hogging hours again:)

Hi Spacer and Hi OC 12 AEF and your 1000 brevets:cool:

Tonks:)

[Spacer]

Tonks: Hi. Sorry I missed you when you were up last week. Hope all's well :)

[Hummingfrog]

Spacer you have set me a challenge sitting out here on an oilrig - who are you? Can't be VB or are you? Spacer could be a cadet? Your profile says not much flying - could you be AM or AT its not me JD. May see you week sunday?

HF

:confused:

[Spacer]

lol Hummingfrog: its not hard to work out who I am.... I have the same nickname in real life as here, so if it doesn't ring a bell, then you probably don't know me. And as for being a cadet: I certainly used to be CCF!

PS: next Sunday I'll be at the motorshow in Earls Court!