Taxi clearance

[newbe200]

If I am cleared to land and after exiting the runway I have a long taxi to the bay, how far am I cleared to taxi if ground is busy and I cant get a call away??

Always wondered that...

cheers nb20:ok:

[planemad2]

Zero distance I would think. ;)

[Capt Fathom]

You can taxi all the way to the bay (unless you need to cross a runway). If you choose to stop, where is the guy that lands behind you going to go? :uhoh:

[Icarus2001]

TAXIING AFTER LANDING

16.1 A pilot in command must not hold on the runway in use unless ATC has so authorised.

16.2 After landing, unless specified otherwise by ATC, an aircraft must comply with the following:
a. Promptly vacate the runway without backtracking.
b. Change from the aerodrome frequency to the SMC frequency (where established) when vacating the runway strip, and obtain an ATC taxi instruction.
c. Not cross any runway that intersects the taxi route unless in receipt of a taxi instruction and a "CROSS RUNWAY (number)" instruction from ATC.
d. taxi to the destination via the most direct taxiway(s) available.
e. Where an apron service is provided on a discrete frequency(see ERSA), change to that frequency on entering the apron.

So there you have it. So that means you have to stop?!

[newbe200]

thanks mate, answered.

Capt Fathom, my god, even I a) wouldn't just go to the bay and b) STOP on the runway.
Christ almighty

Cheers Icarus
nb20

[planemad2]

Thank goodness, I was worried there for a minute. ;)

[Capt Fathom]

Don't believe I said 'Stop on the Runway'. Read what I said.

You guys must operate at Big airports. We just taxi off the runway and go to the parking area. No SMC. Nuff said.

[RENURPP]

Well I believe this is another poorly phrased piece of the AIP.

I don't agree it as saying you must stop. If that was the intention it should say something like
a. Promptly vacate the runway without backtracking and hold, taxi no further, stop!!

What it does say is
b. Change from the aerodrome frequency to the SMC frequency (where established) when vacating the runway strip, and obtain an ATC taxi instruction.
c. Not cross any runway that intersects the taxi routeunless in receipt of a taxi instruction and a "CROSS RUNWAY (number)" instruction from ATC.

In other words vacate the runway, change to SMC and whilst continuing to taxi and when time permits obtain a taxi instruction, being different from a taxi clearance. Do Not cross a runway without specific permission.

Remember taxiing is a joint responsibility, so don't bump into any one or thing.


I also don't believe it gives you cart blanche to just taxi at your leasure around the airport.

[planemad2]

I would have thought it was common sense that you stop.

What about the reverse situation?

You are cleared to taxi out by ground, then when you near the runway you cannot establish contact with the tower.

PLEASE tell me you don't just line up and assume everything is okay. :{

You do stop before entering the runway until you establish contact with the tower, don't you. :uhoh:

[Capt Fathom]

The radio is so annoying. I generally have it turned right down. That way, there are no distractions when you are entering the runway! :E

[newbe200]

ahh
so it is a can of worms:ok:

[Icarus2001]

newbe200 No not really.:confused:

The problem is when people post on here from their limited experience (myself included) without looking at the context. As above.

Someone talking about "taxi clearance" and "bays" would clearly be talking about a primary aerodrome, C airspace etc Then in comes Capt Fathom talking about GAAP or non-controlled airports. Chalk and cheese really.

It is very important to understand the question before you attempt to answer it.:ok:

Renurpp I concur with you. The AIP is full of this sort of stuff. Also remember that much of the AIP has no force of law, see a post by Creampuff a while ago about the Camden night accident.
I think the distinction between a taxi clearance & a taxi instruction is probably there to allow some flexibility in the case in question. Look out, be cautious and if in doubt stop.

[Capt Fathom]

Then in comes Capt Fathom talking about GAAP or non-controlled airportsWas I ?
Amazing what people read into posts!

[Capt Claret]

Well if one does have to stop, the Alice Tower controller has been remiss in not giving all the jet drivers arriving there a word, as no one calls for taxi clearance to the bay, they land, taxi clear and proceed to the allocated bay.

[Capt Fathom]

RENURPP and Capt Claret have the best answers so far! Nice and simple, the way it should be.

[Icarus2001]

Capt Fathom
You guys must operate at Big airports. We just taxi off the runway and go to the parking area. No SMC. Nuff said. So doesn't you comment indicate that you were talking about "non-big" airports. Possibly small ones, maybe GAAP or non-controlled? How many non-big airports without SMC are not GAAP or non controlled?

[Hempy]

b. Change from the aerodrome frequency to the SMC frequency (where established) when vacating the runway strip, and obtain an ATC taxi instruction.

"..... ground, VH-ABC"
"ABC, ground"

wheres the instruction?

[Capt Fathom]

I did ask the Surface Movement Controller in MEL one day..given the choice of several routes to our bay..which way should we go. The answer was; if they required us to go a specific way, they would tell us. Failing that, we could please ourselves! Very accommodating people. :ok:

[planemad2]

That may be okay at a small airport like MEL. ;)

Just don't try it at a big airport like JFK. :uhoh:

[RENURPP]

Planemad2

so far your input has been less than interesting or helpful.

Read the text then read the answers. Nobody has gone close to suggesting that you should line up without a specific clearance. That is a stupid comment.

Can you explain why it would make sense to STOP. Have a look next time you taxi in and see how many peolpe do stop, and then consider brake wear, and jet blast bringing 100+ tonnes of aircraft to a stop, (often tail facing the runway) just to wait for a radio call. then taxiing off again. Now that doesn't make any sense.

If ATC consider it necessary for you to stop or take a particular direction immediately after vacating the runway an instruction will normally be passed on via tower during the landing roll, when it is obvious which taxi way you will be vacating on.

You are my hero though cause you fly into JFK, I hope from the 2nd officers seat.

[planemad2]

RENURPP,

I would suggest it is you that should read the topic.

I only said that near the start of the thread to point out the folly of continuing to taxi at will with no clearnce from anybody.

You may well get away with it in CNS, or even MEL, but not in the real world.

[Hempy]

point out the folly of continuing to taxi at will with no clearnce from anybody

I was under the impression that the landing taxi clearance was implied in the airways clearance i.e through to destination. AIP says after landing you need to obtain taxi instruction not a taxi clearance.

[*Lancer*]

I was under the impression that crossing a runway requires a clearance, everything else is a taxi instruction...

If you have a radio failure, the only light signals you will get from the Tower will involve a runway. So, in the event you can't get any taxi instructions (for whatever reason), it's 'taxi to your bay' giving way to the right until you get otherwise... Unless its stated somewhere that you shouldn't proceed without instuctions (eg LAX).

[AerocatS2A]

Does Alice have a seperate ground fequency?

[ITCZ]

You may well get away with it in CNS, or even MEL, but not in the real world.

"The Real World," a wonderful place that the sophist invocates to invalidate the empirical, practical, and commonly understood... Ahhh, at last some great rhetoric improperly used!

My dear planemad, are you a fellow aficionado of the methods of St Ignatius Loyola? I do hope that you are... would be so nice to know that PPRUNE is not entirely populated by practical aviators, and that there is at least one sophist out there. I feel a brotherly connexion

Do let me know next time you are drinking at the Torres des Ivoir pub on your next overnight in the Fourth Dimension.

:p

[Capt Claret]

Hey ITCZ,

Would you mind translating that into English please? ;) :p

[regitaekilthgiwt]

I think ITCZ was just advocating what most of us were thinking:
planemad2 is a knob without much of a grip on reality...;)

[planemad2]

Any wonder so many people are reluctant to post on PPRuNe. :(

I was merely trying to point out that there are obviously different standards at different airports, so that anyone reading this thread would not think you can do that anywhere.

Yes I have taxiied aircraft at JFK and many other airports too (always from the left hand seat RENURPP ;) ), just make sure you are aware of the local way of doing things.

As someone posted on another thread, they were told to "position/hold" at JFK. IF you do not know this means line up and hold, rather than hold your current position, maybe you shouldn't be there.

[ITCZ]

planemad2, your comprehension of the written word is not up to the standard you demand of others.

If you behave in a boorish manner, do not put blame on the forum for 'biting' back.

[planemad2]

All I have said all along, is IF anyone is serious about this subject, PLEASE check the local rules. (outside of Australia). :ok:

As for all the others on this site, with nothing sensible to say, WFC what happens to you. ;)