Learning to fly at TAFE (Cert IV and Diploma)

[GOH]

Hi, I am just finished reading a previous post on the topic although I still have some unanswered questions about the Certificate IV in aeronautics and Diploma in Aeronautics in TAFE (currently Midland Campus I believe). If anyone can help I would really appreciate it. I plan on doing the Certificate IV in aviation first (theory for PPL and CPL). Then the Diploma (well that WAS the plan!)

1. Has anyone done the course/ applied for it? The reason I ask is that I found out that there is only around 25 positions and wanted to know if it is competitive.

2. I know that the course is for the theory only for these licences but I am guessing it would be more beneficial to do the flight training at the same time as studying?

3. I have been slack lately with exams and all and haven’t really done much research. To be honest I don’t know if I can afford it, read in the other post $150 per hour for aircraft (does that include instructor?) if so it says the minimum time required for the CPL is 150 hours, after completing the PPL for 40 hours (although more likely take 50 hours) so that totals $30 000? Now for a school leaver with $2000 and no car and planning on starting straight into it in February (if accepted) I don’t know where I will get the money from! So this brings me to my question (finally I know) what would happen if I couldn’t afford to pay for lessons anymore and was just left doing the theory?

4. Anyone know how many hours of flying will have to be done say each week?

Am really interested in speaking to people that may have done the course. (although highly unlikely haha!)

Also anyone have any more specific info on names, schools ect which have good quality instructors in Perth? (Maybe after reading above...that are cheap!?)

If you have managed to have read all of this I thank you and look forward to your tips!

:ok:

GOH

[I Fly]

1. I don't know about this particular TAFE but TAFEs are usually crying out for students, so you should have no problem getting in. Ask them.

2. If you want to do a 150 hour CPL it is a CASA requirement that you have a certain amount of flying experience BEFORE you can sit for the exams. You will have to find out from TAFE when the exams are scheduled so you can schedule enough flying to qualify. If you do the exams 'out of order' it will become a 200 hour CPL.

3. At least you have come to this forum. To get a CPL you will have to do more. It's time to talk to your parents about what you want to do when you leave school. When my 2 kids where your age, I wished they knew what they wanted to be.

4. That depends on matching Item 2.
I can't help you with Perth. I suggest you go out to Jandakot and visit EVERY school.
To learn best you need to comfortable with
1 The aerodrome
2 The Operator
3 The aircraft, and
4 The Instructor (this might well be the most important.
Remember you are the customer. So quiz them on everything you want to know. Make a list so you ask everyone the same questions. Expand the list as you go along and go back to previous school to ask any new questions.
Best of luck

[SkySista]

Hi GOH, I am doing this course at the moment (PPL) , well, trying, as have an ear infection making it hard to study!!!

Anyway, I'll answer what I can.

1. found it no problem to get in to the PPL part, I think you may need to do them separately, I'm not sure, as PPL is a night course & CPL day. It may even be that CPL includes the PPl part as well, you may have to check that. (I think we both have the same lecturers - who, by the way, are pretty good, there's one ex-747 captain who's really cool ;) )

2. The course is theory only, but it has been suggested that at least some flying time in the duration will help, especially if you have not flown before. I myself found this to be true when dealing with subjects such as Aerodynamics, Aircraft General Knowledge and Navigation. You understand much better if you have an idea of how things happen already. Generally, the course is pretty much to prepare you for the CASA exams.

There is no requirement to fly at all, but again, you could, if able, do right up to your solo or GFPT. No reason why not. Reversing what I said above, theory while you are flying helps as well, you will likely remember more, and it will seem to "mesh" better. If your circumstances don't permit much flying (as mine won't) you still have your course material to refer to once you do start flying, and you really will remember a lot. One guy in the class flies twice a week, others haven't even started. it's up to you.

3. Maybe as suggested sit down with your parents, and work out realistically what you can afford, what they are willing to put in, and a ballpark figure based on an average hire price for your a/c. Perhaps phone a few schools to see what the going rate is (or try www.racwa.asn.au for starters) Talk to people who have been there, look into 'packages' if that's what you want, and definitely read up on the Oz GA forums and research everything you want to know - there is a wealth of info here at PPRuNe and many people willing to share it. Read, read, and read, write it all down, and really do your homework. Even if it's not possible financially just now, you can at least have a idea of how much you need and set a time-frame to achieve it from there. You can even start with a PPL and go from there. Don't forget flying clubs and schools can offer scholarships for various things as well, and if you don't feel like hiding in a corner at the thought of the Air Force, that's always an option too. There is more than one way to skin a cat ;)

4. Depends on student ability, circumstances etc etc, but I've been told, consistency is the key!

There's a thread around here somewhere about "Any New Students Here?" - may have been in the Private Flying forum - check that out, were a few suggestions of questions to ask a flying school.

Hope this helps....!

Sky

[I Fly]

SkySista, have a look at the DAY VFR SYLLABUS paragraph 2.8.2 to see what flying experience you MUST have before attempting exams. Also make sure that TAFE is talking about the flying school / CASA exams and not just the TAFE exams.

[SkySista]

I Fly,

Sorry for any confusion. What I meant was, they have so far not enforced any flying requirement from their end. They have told us that some flying is required before you can take certain exams, and that it's our responsibility to check this out. I do not think the course actually includes the CASA exams - it is just to prepare you for it. Basically, you should be able to walk out of the course having passed the TAFE exams and theoretically pass the CASA ones.

There a two guys in the class who I don't think intend to take the exams at all. They are there because they belong to a gliding club ad wanted to understand more about the basics of flying, and powered a/c in case they want to branch out.

I will check and see though about the flying requirement - I myself am not planning to take the (CASA) exams until well after the course because that is when I will be doing the majority of my flying....

Again, sorry for the confusion...

Sky :)

[Gyro drifter]

SkySister,

The lect. was never a 747 capt. He was a 747 flight engineer.
Althought the lecturers are great people and have a wealth of knowledge the stuff they teach is crap.

They use half empty files which u need to fill in via overheads. Thats how they expect you to learn 90% of the material. Ruth King's so called CPL texts are crap. They wont get you a pass in you CASA exams even if you memorize page by page. The content needed is just not there.

One other thing you will find is these TAFE courses are full of air heads. People who have just finished school and have this great idea of becoming a pilot. Do your self a favour. Go down to your local airport and have a chat to the people there.

Ive done the cert 4(cpl) and diploma(atpl) at TAFE in WA. I liked the courses. I loved the stories that one of lecturers told (SkySister you will know who im talking about).
BUT... it aint CASA quality. It wont get you through.

So my advice is this.
1. Tafe is a good place to start if you have never set foot in a plane. You wont be alone. 80% of the class wouldnt even know what a tailplane is.
2. Dont expect the tafe qualification to pull you through the CASA exams.
3. Get your self additional texts.

Gyro

[SkySista]

Gyro, you have some valid points there, you are right I would not rely on TAFE alone.

I do however have to take exception to this:

these TAFE courses are full of air heads. People who have just finished school and have this great idea of becoming a pilot

I agree there are always a few, however I have found in this particular class that everyone is there to learn to fly - we have at least two people who have passed the GFPT, and are on to the navexs. Being a night course we are all there because we want to be.

The lect. was never a 747 capt. He was a 747 flight engineer.

I am unsure if we are talking about the same person and I will not use names here. I am not going to go and ask to see his licenses or anything like that. Perhaps the lecturer I have now is different to yours. (How long ago did you do this course?) Feel free to PM me the name, then we may see if we are talking of the same person.

Though I agree they all have some awesome stories.... perhaps you remember the iced-over ventral fins dragging down a plane up north.... or the 146 engine-out incident? ;)


They use half empty files which u need to fill in via overheads

So far, the only one which we have had to fill in extensively is the Air Law part, and they are fixing that at this moment. As for the other subjects, it is well known that you remember more by writing it yourself than just learning by rote. In all other subjects the lecturers have explained everything as we go along and are filling out the files. There are a couple of standouts in this area, some are better than others, but as is said when you start the course, you get out what you put in. I take it upon myself to do as much extra reading as I can on particular subjects I may have trouble with (or look it up here) and as you have mentioned, I talk to other pilots as well.

So, which additional texts would you recommend, both for myself and the original poster? I am constantly being told one or another, Thom this, Bill So-and-So that....

So far on my list I have the Pilot's Handbook (you know, the one with clouds on the cover), I own Flight Discipline (very good when it comes to SA and Human Factors etc), and that Met. one the BoM has put out... about $77 I believe it is. Where should a student go from there? Anyone else got an opinion?

And yes Gyro, TAFE is not for everyone. There is an option to discontinue if it doesn't suit.

Sky

[Gyro drifter]

SkySister,

Id really like to have a chat to ya but your inbox is full. Delete some messages and let me know when your done.

Gyro

[GOH]

Thanks a lot for the information you've posted. It really helps to have two sides to a story.

Id really like to have a chat to ya but your inbox is full. Delete some messages and let me know when your done.

If it isnt about the 747 pilot and about TAFE would it be possible to keep it in here as I am learning a lot about TAFE, but as I said if it isnt about it then disregard my comment!

Thanks again
GOH

{Edited for spelling Story wrong! GOH says DOH!}

[SkySista]

Done. Had no idea it got full that quickly!! I think I may have an answer to the little discrepancy...we'll see!

GOH, I have some more to say, but no time right now....will post later....

Sky :)

[Gyro drifter]

Sista check your mail.

[GOH]

Ok I got into TAFE but I also got into uni (curtin Commerce) but I am about to enrol for uni tommorow as I have pretty much ruled out the TAFE option, I would much rather go to uni and learn to fly at the same time.

[Icarus2001]

read in the other post $150 per hour for aircraft (does that include instructor?) $150 per hour is VERY cheap.

Budget for around $11,000 to obtain a PPL then around another $20,000 to gain a CPL, then you may want an Instructor rating to get your first job. That will be about $9000.

So about $40,000 so far for a VFR CPL. How does that compare with the HECS fees for Commerce at Curtin?