View Full Version : Has ANything Happened to Qantas Training Since BKK?
17th Oct 2004, 22:55
I've just finished reading this thread http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=140969.
The BA crew did a splendid job.
I wonder exactly how Qantas would cope if they had a similar incident and whether any lessons learned from the BKK incident are applicable? What changes have been made at Qantas since BKK?
18th Oct 2004, 00:19
Sunfish, the only similarity I see is both incidents involved aircraft (and Boeing's at that).
The changes at QF and any other mature airline are ongoing and can occasionally be directly shown to be as a result of some incident or other.
Safety information collection, evaluation and change implementation are ongoing, that's what good safety management is/does.
I hope you weren't trying to be controversial or stir the pot a bit!!!
Sunfish, lots of changes in lots of different areas. Certainly too many to articulate in a PPRUNE thread unless I wanted to spend the next hour typing my response.
I am interested in the slant you put on your question though. Are you suggesting that QF should have evacuated?
18th Oct 2004, 02:47
That's what the ATSB report implied !!!
18th Oct 2004, 03:31
Its a serious question, not trolling. As I recall, without reading about the incident again, the pax sat in the aircraft for about 20 minutes, fortunately with no ill effects.
As far as I can recall, the ATSB implied that maybe they should have evacuated the aircraft, but did not look into the decision making process that led to the decision not to evacuate.
Since my delicate questioning has not produced the desired response, and at the risk of getting my head bitten off for not being a 40,000 hour B747 pilot and having the temerity to ask questions, I'd like to ask whether the decision not to evacuate in BKK was a logical one based on mature consideration of the issues by all those involved, or was it a stuff up?
Has Qantas looked at the BKK event and learned or changed anything as a result?
In other words, would Qantas perform as well as the BA crew did in the States?
18th Oct 2004, 03:33
I think in Hindsight it was the correct decision. QF now have the option of a precautionary disembarkation if required, this provides them with the ability to upgrade if reqd to a full evac..
18th Oct 2004, 03:47
In fact, OHP, that option existed well before the BKK incident; it isn't new! :mad:
18th Oct 2004, 03:55
Someone should tell the EP trainers that then.
18th Oct 2004, 04:31
Are you suggesting they shouldn't have?
The decision to evacuate or not can be a difficult one in a lot of situations, but if I'm sitting amongst trees, with obvious structural damage, then the decision has been greatly simplified for me.
18th Oct 2004, 05:12
We're not going to go through all this cr@<hidden> again. If anyone is really interested, they can re-read the old thread. :mad:
18th Oct 2004, 07:49
Come on is this a wind up? Smoke in the cabin is a completely different to the situation that occurred in BKK, lets move on...
SA, I wasn't there and I don't have all the information that they did so I refuse to comment on whether or not it was the right thing. I do acknowledge that you can't base the correctness of a decision on it's outcome. Many a correct decision (and execution) has resulted in a less than optimal outcome whilst many crappy decisions have resulted in an outcome that was pretty good.
However, when you evacuate, people get injured. Every major evac of an aircraft in the last bunch of years shows that. When QF banged all the doors out on the 744 at the terminal, we had people injured including a fractured collarbone to one of the crew. In some respects, given the previous history of aircraft and evacs, we're probably lucky there were no worse injuries in Sydney.
With the QF1, they didn't 'sit there' for 20 minutes doing nothing. They spent a lot of that time ensuring that people were briefed for a precautionary disembarkation and then ensured people got off with minimum of fuss and zero injuries.
I wasn't there. I don't have the information that they did and I refuse to judge the decisions that they made on the night regarding evac or precautionary. Based on what I know of our training both before and after, it appears to be a reasonable decision given that I'm not in possession of all the issues that the crew faced. Interestingly, despite their best efforts, neither is the ATSB and certainly no one on PPRUNE.
18th Oct 2004, 07:55
This subject got a pretty good going over at the time, may I suggest that you do a search and some research on this and if you feel the need come back here.
I am not an apologist for any airline including QF, though I think it would be fair to say that there were some "adjustments" in ALL modes at QF.